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/lit/ - Literature

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File: 1.53 MB, 1192x794, Slavoj Zizek.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14157981 No.14157981 [Reply] [Original]

Who is his antithesis?

>> No.14157990

Not a single one

>> No.14157993

Ayn Rand.

>> No.14157994

I'm sorry to say it; but Peterson destroyed Zizek in the debate.

And it was a great, great debate. And, of course, it's a shame that Zizek is so easily defeated.

Zizek can't say this because he would be denounced as a coward. And the worst thing for Zizek, if I may, would be to be seen as a coward, a coward who doesn't want to take risks with his philosophy. Because his philosophy is so brilliant. But the risks he has taken have always been in the name of philosophy. And to call this cowardly is a form of dishonesty that no one is interested in.

>> No.14158014

>>14157994
Are you having an aneurysm?

>> No.14158016

Peterson

>> No.14158018

>>14157994
Didn't watch, how'd he destroy him?

>> No.14158024

>>14157994
I wouldn’t call it a debate, more of a table talk. At most a discussion presenting one side (Peterson’s side), and questioning that stance.

>> No.14158026

>>14157981
He is a being of pure antithesis

>> No.14158037

>>14157994
Both Peterson and Zizek are more alike than they are different, bloviating old white guys pushing outdated 20th century ideologies, whining about 'political correcteness' and 'identity politics' when the real cultural revolution is being led by women, queers and people of colour

>> No.14158041
File: 48 KB, 674x843, 1573406657332.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14158041

>>14158037
Based

>> No.14158042

>>14157994
This. Zizek just deflected all his arguments because it was clear he didn't have any real responses

>> No.14158047

>>14157981
He was retroactively refuted by Pascal.

>> No.14158050

Human nature

>> No.14158070

>>14157994
this sounds like you are talking about some epic wizard battle lmao

>> No.14158086

>>14158037
Is this whole "critique" of yours just pointing out that they're white? I'm trying to find some substance in this blather, and I'm not finding it.

>> No.14158094

>>14158086
males

>> No.14158125

>>14158018
it wasn't even a debate, each of them just explained their world view and then it was practically nothing

i'm fairly sure he's trolling because peterson started by saying he hasn't read any of zizeks work (and seemed like he didn't even know who he is) and then just attack marx' das kapital w/ his regurgitated monologue.

>> No.14158129

>>14158086
It stands as evident that white supremacy and other forms of oppression operate structurally and unconsciously and can only be combated collectively and through institutions. Both Zizek and Peterson have essentialist views on gender, and minimize Trump/White supremacy. I believe trans and NB people should not be forced to debate their own existence.

>> No.14158150

>>14158129
stop LARPING

>> No.14158199

>>14158037
> When the "real" revolution is part of the system.
I mean, if we try to defend zizek here: nobody is capable to think about systems other than capitalism, according to zizek. So, the "cultural revolution", becomes, necessarily, embedded in it. And, thus, transforms into reactionary politics which make actual change impossible. But sure, continue believing there is some cultural revolution happening that is outside the system.

>> No.14158210
File: 61 KB, 1280x720, UNOPAELLERA.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14158210

>>14158037
>when the real cultural revolution is being led by a corporate HR department filled with indoctrinated NPCs who partake in peak consumerism.

>> No.14158240

>>14158199
are not patriarchy, white supremacy, colonialism and heteronormativity systems that preceded and constitute capitalism?The truth is, Collective ownership of the economy, while providing ample benefits, by itself won't end structural discrimination, it won't end racism and sexism. Was the subaltern ever asked if she wished to be subsumed within the spectre of the international proletariat? Many White dude college Marxists just seem to look to these theories as a means of avoiding a true reckoning with their whiteness, sounding almost like alt righters or enlightened centrists at times.

>> No.14158252

Has he ever talked/debated with any kind of a real reactionary?

>> No.14158253

>>14158252
Peterson

>> No.14158255

>>14158240
This guy again lel. You're one of the best bait crafters on this board

>> No.14158298

>>14158240
I'm just saying that they are not changing anything, since the changes that they are able to make are just changes embedded in the capitalist system. I'm not saying that any kind of revolution will magically solve anything. What I am saying is the fact that the achievements made are clearly reterrioralizations of already destructed symbolic meaning. The patriarchy is already dying by the destruction of marriage, the combatting against the patriarchy is the creation of a new symbolic order. And is, thus, somewhat fascistic in kind.

>> No.14158312

>>14158298
what makes you think you can speak over marginalised people or tell them their struggles are meaningless? what you call, rather pompously a new 'fascistic symbolic order' is what I call empathy and treating people with respect. How can you even call yourself a leftist if you are not comitted to equality?

>> No.14158330

>>14158298
empirically demonstrable structural disparities exist, so why are you not for remeding them?

>> No.14158332

>>14158050
good bait anon

>> No.14158333

>>14157981

Any competent non-coke-addicted Marxist

>> No.14158347

>>14158330
>empirically demonstrable structural disparities
you know what other sort of empirically demonstrable disparities exist

>> No.14158375
File: 321 KB, 431x450, 423423424.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14158375

>>14157994

>> No.14158379

>>14158312
If you want these changes to last, you want to let them arrive organically and not have to enforce anything. I mean, capitalism reduced patriarchy, basically, to the family. The family is also destroyed, so what are you battling exactly. Of course, you want people to be nice to each other. You do this by letting people meet, not by stoking resentment. I mean, if you want to call the trumpians fascist, don't you think that a big proportion of their hatred comes from resentment, which is pargially fueled by enforced niceness. Even if they act nice now, you have achieved nothing. Since the outward niceness will not trump their resentment. What you can do is create the environment in which the least amount of resentment is generated. But that is clearly not what your revolutionaries are doing.

>> No.14158387

>>14157994
The "debate" wasn't even a debate. It was more like a tickle fight, with Peterson taking himself super-seriously in the tickling, and Žižek not giving a goddamn shit.

It was a complete waste of time, especially for the viewers.

>> No.14158406

Probably the Dean at his university.
This guy is like the intellectual john Belushi.
Maybe some military commander, or rich businessman, one of the rothchilds.
Maybe just ALL politicians.
Maybe it should be you for not tweeting him this.

>> No.14158423

>>14158330
You can remedy them in better ways than the so called revolutionaries are doing, because their style causes more resentment than necessary. You don't even have to play any race or gender card, the biggest single influence is social background. Focus on that, it will cause way less resentment. Do I specifically focus on the systemic problems of race? No, since over time ( if social economic status really explains differences in performances ), the influence of racism will diminish, since, if we focus on percentages in positions of power of certain races, if every one has the same in-race bias, then, if we level the capacities of the persons, the equilibrium, to which the positions move, wilĺ be exactly the proportions of the races in the general populace.

>> No.14158439

>>14158125
lol he didn't even attack Capital, he attacked the Manifesto.

>> No.14159703

>>14157981
Preemptively debunked by Deleuze

>> No.14160369

>>14158037
The left's mission is to deceive ordinary people into believing that they're the underdogs in an epic fight against an evil and antiquated society. The problem is that their values have taken hold and become the center of our entire society's focus -- which contradicts the notion that they're oppresed and embattled against the institution. They are in fact the institution. This is the great contradiction, and so it is not women, gays, and people of color who are leading a revolution. No, the real revolution is being led by the ones who oppose nonstop advocacy for these groups, and who instead insist upon a meritocratic reform of society; one based on hard work, perseverance, honesty, and a return to common sense. These are the real revolutionaries.

>> No.14160410

He has no Antithesis because he has no convictions, he knows Marxism is a failed ideology that will never work (and he is too much of a beta libcuck to unironically endorse Tankie/Stalinism)
he is only holding on to his marxist identity because of muh "iT wOrKs iN tHeOrY"

>> No.14160608

To answer OP's question, I think if
Zizek considers himself to be in opposition to any thinker, it would be Badiou.

>> No.14160628

>>14158129
I think this is a common misconception. Zizek has no essentialist views toward LGBT. He criticism of them is that they are fighting for categories of recognition that are essentialist. If they took the impetus of the LGBT+ movement to its logical conclusion they would realize the significance is in the residual '+' itself.

>> No.14160700

>>14160369
Thats not the left, that is the social democrats and its orbiters (i.e center-left, activists, human rights advocates), the true left is calling out on this attempts of owning the racial struggle, the LGBT+ struggle, etc.
This is done because we in the "extreme left" if you want to call it that way, know that the background of every struggle is class struggle, a white woman who is an enterpreneur, still has women employees, and still denies them basic workers rights, let alone let them unionize.
What my point is, a true leftie can call itself that way if it supports mega corporations taking the mantle of saviours of the lonely and depressed minorities, its the minorities that has to, through fighting their own fights, understand the transversality of class struggle, unite, and kill the burgeoisie.

>> No.14160705

>>14160700
can´t*

>> No.14160711

>>14160628
It should be added to this that the "+" is the only truly essential category.

>> No.14160753
File: 77 KB, 750x1000, poster,840x830,f8f8f8-pad,750x1000,f8f8f8.u1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14160753

>>14160711
How's the "+" different from "bender" or "faggot", though?

>> No.14160764

>>14160753
Because we can’t say faggot anymore

>> No.14160776

>>14160753
Because we can enumerate an infinite number of identities, but still have the "+". So we have LGBT+, then LGBTQA+, then LGBTQAF(aggot)B(ender)+, and so on, but the plus can never be exhausted.

>> No.14160785

>>14158037
100% based.

>> No.14160814

Jordan B Peterson = Naruto
Slavoj Zizek = Sasuke

>> No.14161581

>>14160700
Im not any sort of Leftist but class is clearly a much better proxy for power than race or gender. I don't know how the Left feel about banks and government agencies but these should also be included in the analysis of who has the power along with capitalists. The press and academia too for that matter.

>> No.14161593

>>14157981
not sure about politically/philosophically.. but Peterson is his intellectual antithesis

Zizeks ability to take in a little bit of every thinker and discect out what is useful to him and discard the rest makes him a very complex and nuanced thinker.

Peterson on the other hand resorts to "all postmodern marxists are evil" which is so low-EQ i'm surprised he thinks he could ever make a good life coach

>> No.14161743

>>14160776
>Because we can enumerate an infinite number of identities, but still have the "+"
Yes, but only two are normal, that´s why there´s LGBT to account for those who deviate. However some ultrafaggots deviate even from LGBT and need a new categories. If you add those categories, then it might not be enough for the gigafaggot and so on.

So you add "+" to account for all kinds of faggotry. How´s that different from just labeling the entire category "benders"? You are still dividing society between the normal people and the abnormal ones.

>> No.14161794

>>14157994
based and upvoted

>> No.14162100

>>14160700
Your response to my post literally illustrates the "that's not real communism" meme.

>> No.14162103

>>14162100
He’s right you fucking retard.

>> No.14162385

>>14162103
Care to explain.......

>> No.14162420

>>14160700
institutions are needed because individuals are inherently biased, as has been amply demonstrated by cognitive science. To effectively fight oppression any institution, whether a communist party or a fortune 500 corporation will need to implement intersectionality and comprehensive anti bias training. The suggested reading lists promoted by 4chan leftists notably lack diversity and present an eurocentric cannon of philosophy and social criticism, with almost no books by women and people of colour and zero books specifically about identity issues. Why can't they reflect the demographic composition of the population?

>> No.14162428

>>14162385
yeah read the post again then take the bulletpill

>> No.14162436
File: 35 KB, 143x104, cricket 8.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14162436

>>14158070
Philosophy is linguistic magical battle.

>> No.14162501

>>14158210
leftism is not about opposing 'consumerism' or 'corporations', it is about human equality. Anti consumerism has become a dogwhistle for nazis and racists, see the NPC and basedboy memes, gamergate among many other examples, we have a duty as communists to defend progressive bourgeoisie culture against disingenuous reactionary attacks.

>> No.14162503

>>14162428
>yyea read his post again.

I got it. I read it. He didn't refute me. What do you say? Do you have a view of this discussion or are just falling in line with what the other guy said --- like a typical leftist faggot?

>> No.14162526

>>14162501
>we have a duty as communists to defend progressive bourgeoisie culture
A truly glorious sentence.

>> No.14162542

>>14162526
Marx would have said the same, he appreciated the progressive aspects of capitalism and the bourgeoisie, many present day marxists are just reactionaries in sheeps clothing, who are obviously upset by the dissolution of the patriarchal family, the recognition of new gender identities, identity politics, and the attempts to decolonize culture/philosophy and move it away from eurocentrism

>> No.14162547

>>14162542
Marx was racist though

>> No.14162576

>>14162547
which is why his ideas need not and should not be the central referent of an intersectional enmancipatory movement.

>> No.14162586

>>14157994
Best pasta I've read in a while.

>> No.14162591

>>14162576
go emancipate somalia

>> No.14162597

>>14158037
>the real cultural revolution is being led by women, queers and people of colour
This but substitute communism for cultural because changing culture changes nothing unless the material base of society is altered.

>> No.14162621

>>14162503
If you are too retarded to understand the fundamental difference between leftists and liberals, you're not worth engaging wth.

>> No.14162643

>>14162621
if you don't understand that leftism is by neccesity intersectional queer and decolonial then you might as well be a Trump supporter

>> No.14162652

>>14162643
shit b8

>> No.14162924

>>14162643
>by neccesity intersectional
Obvious b8, there are other ways to arrive at the same goal, and there are serious deficiencies with intersectional theory (namely its inability to grapple with class in any real way).

>> No.14162932

>>14158439
and apparently he hadn't even read that, judging from what he actually said he just went with some vague rage boomer concept of marxism that doesn't have anything to do with anything

>> No.14164457
File: 797 KB, 1311x1401, queen2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14164457

>>14158037
>real cultural revolution

>> No.14164961

>>14158070
Hegelists are actual wizards.

>> No.14165064

>>14158037
The joke is that as you push for more of this, openly attacking those you deem 'problematic', you alienate them, generating another generation of resentful people opposed to you. You're all just a product of a bunch of retarded boomers and gen Xers, and you'll probably create future generations of white supremacists with your misguided humanitarian attempts. Stop stooping to their level.

>> No.14165931

>>14157981
Eric Striker.

>> No.14166713

>>14162932
It's pretty obvious that Peterson only has a surface level understanding of the concepts he criticizes