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File: 894 KB, 617x782, Bakunin.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14106909 No.14106909 [Reply] [Original]

Is "my liberty ends where yours begins" a meme?

>> No.14106913

Refute it, you can't.

>> No.14106962

>>14106909
freedom is sharing

>> No.14106968
File: 25 KB, 392x400, 1572783405445.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14106968

>>14106909
>my liberty ends where yours begins
Utilitarian BS

>> No.14107002

>>14106968
that's a universal principle, not a utilitarian one. a utilitarian principle would be something like "liberty ends where it is most conducive to maximizing the good". nice selfie though

>> No.14107028

liberty is a spook

>> No.14107034
File: 135 KB, 958x719, 1572710594280.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14107034

>>14107002
>You can't do whatever you want as long as it harms no one else isn't utilitarian

>> No.14107049

Spooky.

>> No.14107063

>>14106909
Yes we need an updated version of liberty that reflects the inequality of individuals.
>Some people are able to use psychedelics responsibly while others are degenerates who should never be allowed to do any drugs.
>Some people's votes should count more than others.
This should all be based on IQ obviously.

>> No.14107065

>>14107034
are you esl? utilitarianism would never put limits on personal liberty, that is strictly a universal stance. this isn't about "doing whatever you want" in a positive sense (although this would not be utilitarian either) but a universal limiting of liberty. think about it this way, kill one man to save ten, obviously a utilitarian would do this, but someone who follows a universalist ethics like op's couldn't, as his liberty ends where the man he is supposed to kill's starts.

>> No.14107324

>>14106913
OP here, sorry for the delay, I was rereading some notes and paraphrasing some things of pic related:
>Liberty can only be conceived in a society. It isn't an inherent transcendental bullshit, as if we, humans, were some sort of divine entity that was attached to it long before our material existence, and then we and let ourselves be trapped and reduced in freedom by others and society itself reducing it.
> This can be justified by two things. I can only be aware of my freedom and realize it with help of society. I mean, I can only refrain me of my own nature (Such as intinte) and gain consciousness with instruction and education, things that elementally social.
>So, man can only be aware and practice freedom as a reflect of his own humanity.
>Then I can only conceived myself as a free man in the recognition of other of the same quality, I cannot if no one recognize as a free man. I'll never feel free by animals or natural causes because they can't.
>Doing things that attempt against the human quality of others dehumanize me as well.
>Finally, if all I was saying was truth, freedom isn't some kind of yard delimited where you can do your things and I can do mine in my side, it's more of a, "the more free we are as whole, the more free I can be". So liberty wouldn't "end" I would be infinite.
It has some positive implications at first glance, maybe even more that that other statement, still I'm still processing if all this he's saying is retarded or if he's saying the same shit with others words.

>> No.14107337

>>14107324
*It* would be infinite

>> No.14107369

>>14107324
What Bukanin books present those arguments?

>> No.14107940

>>14107369
That's from "God and the state". Dunno if he tackle the subject in other work.

>> No.14107962

>>14107063
>we need an updated version of liberty that reflects the inequality of individuals.
That´s not "update liberty", you dildo. That´s just good old paternalism.

>> No.14108302

>>14107940
Nice thx

>> No.14108989

>>14107940
god and the state and marxism, freedom and the state are his longer works that focus on liberty but hes got a shitload of essays and pamphlets on it
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/category/author/mikhail-bakunin

>> No.14109003

>>14107962

Why shouldn't I have the liberty of not being taxed to pay for useless layabouts and criminals?

What about the freedom of not being stabbed by an out-of-control druggy or robbed by a heroin addict?

Drug addicts are a threat to my property's value. In Mexico drug dealers are a threat to the existence of the state.

>> No.14109108

>>14109003
>why shouldn't I have the freedom to survive hurricane force winds? why don't I have the freedom to live without breathing?

>> No.14109124

>>14109003
Who gives a fuck? Point is that you don´t want liberty, you want order. Those two are mututally exclusive.

>> No.14109250

>>14109124

>Wanting to keep my private property and person safe is 'order', not liberty.

Well, why don't we just allow organized crime to take over the whole country? Let's all live in little fiefdoms ruled by warlords, like Somalia. Is that liberty? If so, then it's unnecessary and undesirable.

>> No.14109343

>>14109250
Crime and strife are the logical conclusion of liberty. There´s a reason why the trajectory of civilization went away from freedom towards order, so I don´t really see why you are afraid to say "I don´t want liberty, I want safety and order".