Since determinism is true, what’s the point of life?

[Anonymous No.14101545]

Since determinism is true, what’s the point of life? How do I let go of the illusion I have any control?

[Anonymous No.14101561]

Determinism may be absolutely true, but conventionally it isn't
We perceive ourselves to make choices even if they are predetermined
It's like how the self is a convenient fiction, it seems like it exists but under scrutiny there is none
Just keep living your life, obsessing over it will do you no good

[Anonymous No.14101571]

>>14101561
>just be a brainlet bro

[Anonymous No.14101572]

Dunno, since you haven't let go yet I assume that you might at some point in the future but maybe not. Because with determinism one does not ask advice, but rather hopes to glean some event in the future. I don't know how you will pull it off bro, maybe by reading more Early Modern dudes but it's anyone's guess.

[Anonymous No.14101646]

>>14101545
> How do I let go of the illusion I have any control?
You don't cause it's out of your control retard.

[Anonymous No.14101653]

>>14101545
>since determinism is true
Determinism exists, but you are arguing for Hard determinism which is not the same as Determinism alone.

[Anonymous No.14101665]

>>14101545
Seek preferable experiences. Whether or not you have free will, you still have a chance to feel good. Why do you want freedom anyway? The only difference is that you would get more desirable results than you do now. But some is better than none at all.

[Anonymous No.14101666]

Don't worry about having control and focus on achieving your goals fren

[Anonymous No.14101827]

>>14101545
How is it true if you are still making choices with your brain?

[Anonymous No.14102594]

>>14101571
>just be in anguish over something that either true or false has no actual effect on the way you live life

[Anonymous No.14102599]

>>14101545
Google compatibilism

[Anonymous No.14102606]

>>14101545
Why is determinism true?

[Anonymous No.14102614]

If determinism is true, then the point of life is something determined, and you are either determined to know it or determined to not know it, and you are now determined to ask about it. There's nothing else to say.

[Anonymous No.14102615]

>>14101545
If determinism is real does that mean I should keep my cumsock?

[Anonymous No.14102675]

>>14101545
Determinism isn't true and I'm very thankful that it isn't.
>>14101571
Also, this Anon is right. Just try living fatalistcally; it's impossible. For pragmatic reasons alone, we can act and think as if free will is real. Secondly, studies have shown that believing determinism makes you an asshole. People were given arguments in favour of determinism and it turns they're more likely to cheat on tests, lie, and be more disagreeable.

[Anonymous No.14102732]

>>14101545
It doesn't really change much. Sometimes it's a bit surreal when you're like 'watching' yourself do shit but most of the time you don't really think about it.

[Anonymous No.14102735]

Quantum Mechanics by all major interpretations refutes determinism.

[Anonymous No.14102769]

>>14102735
Unironnically how?

[Anonymous No.14102774]

If determinism is real does that mean I am determined to keep my cumsock and be an incel my whole life?

[Anonymous No.14102784]

>If determinism does is real does that mean I have to keep COOMING my whole life?

[Anonymous No.14102797]

How do ai determine myself to stop COOMING please guys it's nofap novemeber. If there was a way to determine it would be figured out now

[Anonymous No.14102800]

read spinoza, determinism is correct, and will is not free in any sense. but there are other conceptions of freedom - for spinoza, freedom consists not in choice or will but in living according to ones nature, organising ones passions, and being free from passive affects. hegel, engels, and lenin also talk about this -

Engels says: “Hegel was the first to state correctly the relation between freedom and necessity. To him, freedom is the appreciation of necessity. ‘Necessity is blind only in so far as it is not understood.’ Freedom does not consist in the dream of independence from natural laws, but in the knowledge of these laws, and in the possibility this gives of systematically making them work towards definite ends. This holds good in relation both to the laws of external nature and to those which govern the bodily and mental existence of men themselves—two classes of laws which we can separate from each other at most only in thought but not in reality. Freedom of the will therefore means nothing but the capacity to make decisions with knowledge of the subject. Therefore the freer a man’s judgment is in relation to a definite question, the greater is the necessity with which the content of this judgment will be determined. . . . Freedom therefore consists in the control over ourselves and over external nature, a control founded on knowledge of natural necessity (Naturnotwendigkeiten).” (5th Germ. ed., pp. 112–13.)

[Anonymous No.14102805]

Amor fati nigga

[Anonymous No.14102812]

>>14101545
Determinism is true in the scale of the universe, but from our human perspective free will exists.

[Anonymous No.14102817]

use your agency to do things and overcome circumstance
don't ascribe divine will to particles and chemical compounds

[Anonymous No.14102819]

>>14102812

[Anonymous No.14102826]

Do you know how the universe works deterministically and how everything will happen? If you don't, why should you care?

[Anonymous No.14103631]

The only thing that matters is if you're determined to be a member of the elect

[Anonymous No.14103820]

>>14101545
The future.

[Anonymous No.14104014]

>>14102594
you just described most of 4chan

[Anonymous No.14104023]

>>14101545
Here's a move that allows you to be free of determinism: kill yourself. Bet god didn't see that one coming.

[Anonymous No.14104041]

>>14104023
based

[Anonymous No.14104065]

>>14104023
Lame. He totally did.

[Anonymous No.14104080]

>>14102615
Yes, your mom will find it anyway

[Anonymous No.14104332]

>>14101545
The point is to exert your nature -- to explore your capacities and the possibilities of experience, and to have children (or at least contribute to health and survival of your society).

You don't need to have literal control for any of that. The ride never ends!

>>14102735
It certainly introduces significant doubt, but refuting determinism doesn't help the case for free will.

>>14102614
Well you could tell him the fucking determined answer so that he knows it. That would be something else to say.

[Anonymous No.14104336]

>>14104023
why would you kill yourself? It does not matter if you live or die.
I don't understand why determinism leads to this line of thinking. I believe in determinism but it is literally no different from 'free will'. You will still act the same, whether it is fixed or not.

[Anonymous No.14104342]

>>14104336
>It does not matter if you live or die.
Then why not kill yourself?

[Anonymous No.14104352]

>>14104342
Why give up what is familiar for what is unfamiliar, unless that which is familiar is too much to bear. Why change what is unchanged?
It is the same question as 'lol y don't u just join kurdish freedom fighters bro'. Or even just something mundane as 'why don't you knock on your neighbor's door?' Why would you? You are not providing a decent reason.

[Anonymous No.14104359]

>>14102769
Uncertainty principle isn't an element from a lack of sufficient technology, it speaks of the very core nature of reality. Each and every particle has multiple possible future states, and it is not predetermined where it will come to be.

[Anonymous No.14104375]

>>14104359
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_indeterminacy
/lit/really in the word and the word was God.

[Anonymous No.14104389]

>>14102735
>by all major interpretations refutes determinism.
Something like Superdeterminism is always a possibility which simply can never be ruled out.

>>14102769
Because Probability isn't just a mathematical model, but a physical necessity to talk about the observed phenomena.

[Anonymous No.14104390]

>>14101545
>the point of life
Why does there have to be a point?
Things are and you try to make the best of them
Are you a baby?

[Anonymous No.14104454]

>>14104352
>not wanting to explore the unknown
Youre a gay faggot

[Anonymous No.14104457]

>>14104390
But there is a point. Reproduction.

[Anonymous No.14104585]

>>14104454
Are you posting from beyond the grave? If you believe it is such a good idea, why have you not committed suicide yourself?

[Anonymous No.14104652]

According to Shelling:
Not just your conscious self appears free though objectified deterministic, also the subconscious Self, which constitutes all the world, is since it is produced by this Self free for the Self, since freedom is acting out of one's own volition which the world then necessarily is.
You are simply looking at freedom too nearsighted to actually grasp just how vast you are free.

[Anonymous No.14104991]

>>14104359
We don't know that yet. There could variables we aren't accounting for, precisely because of insufficient technology. What you're describing is the statistical model of our observations; we do not yet have the confirmation to assert that these mathematical representations precisely reflect what is going on at 'the very core nature of reality'.

[Anonymous No.14105055]

>>14104652
this can be simply refuted by the definition of the subconscious. It is my SUBconscious meaning I dont know it nor do I control it. The subconscious is-as I perhaps naively believe it to be, a library of shortcuts and descicion algorithms that you all at one point developed consciously. Some have order and beauty in them, others are neurotic. It depends on your genes, environment and your so called self-controll which refers to the process of consciously building your subconscios thought patterns. You do this as a result of said genetics and environment, so even that is deterministic. A simple example: you once learned walking consciously and now it is a subconscious process. Same goes for everything else. Your manners, your neurosis or even what or who you love. That is also why childhood trauma haunts you so viciously- it becomes part of your invisible fate. I compare it to a stack; the earlier the trauma the deeper it is in your subconscious and the further it is away from your conscious. It is really really hard to rewire and it only shows itself in intense medition/sensory deprivation or psychedelic use- if and only if you are smart enough to recognise it.

[Anonymous No.14105103]

>Behold that which I have seen: it is good and comely for one to eat and to drink, and to enjoy the good of all his labour that he taketh under the sun all the days of his life, which God giveth him: for it is his portion.
>Every man also to whom God hath given riches and wealth, and hath given him power to eat thereof, and to take his portion, and to rejoice in his labour; this is the gift of God.
>For he shall not much remember the days of his life; because God answereth him in the joy of his heart.
(Ecclesiastes 5:18-20)
If you want a secular determinist version just replace God with Fate, regardless though the message stands
You've been allotted your portion, you exist in the time and place that you do and there is nothing you can do to change what was initially given to you
Take joy in your opportunity to live, it doesn't matter if life is determined or not since it doesn't actually change anything
The only thing you have control over with free will would be yourself, in determinism your will is controlled by what has happened to you but you still make decisions based off of that, don't you? It's the same whether it's inevitable or not

[Anonymous No.14105149]

>>14104585
Youre the one that said it doesnt matter if you live or die, i dont view myself the same way

[Anonymous No.14105156]

>>14101561
This poster is correct. We can’t predict the future with absolute certainty, so new experiences can still be novel and unique even if they were already fated to happen.

[Anonymous No.14105159]

>>14104332
>Well you could tell him the fucking determined answer so that he knows it. That would be something else to say.
Be kind. That was the answer he was determined to give.

[Anonymous No.14105179]

>>14105156
That's epistemic uncertainty. In this universe, it's likely, due to the evidence of presentism, that we experience ontological uncertainty, meaning that the future itself is undetermined.

[Anonymous No.14105538]

>>14105159
I know, but there's always next time.

[Anonymous No.14105648]

>>14102735
Let's say determinism is wrong
Nice
The future behaves unpredictably and you have no clue how to steer it in any one way in particular, in fact it's impossible for you to consciously manipulate the quantum physics dictating how things turn out
Now what? Same fucking thing.

[Anonymous No.14105655]

>>14104342
>Then why not kill yourself?
Because dying is more unpleasant than most shitty lives, dumbass