/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.14078962]

why do guys that can write beautiful prose and literature refuses to write best sellers?

[Anonymous No.14079046]

>>14078962
In some sense because they can't. Also, because it's too hard to market. Now go away this is a bad thread.

[Anonymous No.14079051]

>>14079046
>writing a good story is hard

[Anonymous No.14079063]

too lazy

[Anonymous No.14079186]

>>14079051
>marketable=good

[Anonymous No.14079198]

>>14079186
>retard thinks that good stories don't sell themselves

I bet you nigger think that melody doesn't sell a song.

[Anonymous No.14079208]

>>14079198
Most people aren't looking for a book that challenges them philosophically and takes time to understand
They want something simple that reinforces their biases

[Anonymous No.14079216]

>>14079208
>you can't write something that make you think and has a good story
yeah, this is why the bible isn't the most sold book all time.

[Anonymous No.14079248]

>>14079216
>you can't write something that make you think and has a good story
Reread the post, the point is that good stories are the ones that make you think. Those are the ones people will avoid in favour of stories that reinforce what ever position they have on a topic.
>yeah, this is why the bible isn't the most sold book all time.
The bible is thousands of years old and is the center piece of western culture.

[Anonymous No.14079279]

>>14079248
so we agree that good stories are good.

however this doesn't mean that writing a best seller is mark of being a lower quality in terms of prose or is just dumb trashy entertainment.

I think we can agree the superior mark of a writer is one that can both write a best seller that also has artistic and intelectual value.

Unless you want to mean there's a dichotomy between popular art and academic art.

[Anonymous No.14079350]

>>14079279
It's a fool's errand to correlate artistic quality with popularity. The only obvious connection is between marketability and popularity. The most popular books are the ones that are most marketable and best marketed;. The question of artistic merit does not, will not, and should not enter any conversation regarding why any particular book became a bestseller.
The true artist is not some craftsman, some dancing monkey, nor is he some phelgmatic obscurantist incestuous academic. The people who write beautiful prose would not concern themselves with what sells and what doesn't because they have other interests, namely the writing of beautiful prose.

[Anonymous No.14079365]

>>14079350
>he thinks there's not quality regarding writing a good story
I bet you think harry potter is a trashy book and doesn't deserve it's fame.

[Anonymous No.14079374]

>>14079208
>They want something simple that reinforces their biases
>>14079216
>the bible
Checks out.

[Anonymous No.14079381]

>>14079374
I bet you think shakespeare isn't evidence something popular can't be written as good literature.

[Anonymous No.14079382]

>>14079365
>I have the reading comprehension of a five year old
No, I'm saying the question of the artistic merits of Harry Potter is completely separate from the question of why Harry Potter became so popular.

[Anonymous No.14079392]

>>14079381
Shakespeare is only popular in the academic scene. Do you think the average Joe reads Shakespeare in their free time? No.

[Anonymous No.14079404]

>Harry Potter is a trashy book that doesn't deserve it's fame

[Anonymous No.14079409]

>>14079381
Shakespeare sold peanuts in comparison to bear baiting

[Anonymous No.14079424]

>>14079382
I both are related.

bad stories don't suddenly become ultra popular for no reason.

all best sellers share the same quality and same narrative rythm that appeals to the core of the human expensive.

you could argue that shit like twilight or shades of gray has not artistic value.
Sure, they're poorly written.

however my argument is that they appeal to a fantasy of women, same shit as to why isekai and harem shit in anime and their anime waifus are so popular.

You could argue that is wish fullfilment, but I digress, why do humans need wish fullfilment?
what's wrong with filling humans inner desires?

You could argue that that shit is like porn, but again, not all best sellers are porn, nor deal with sex.

You could argue that is escapism which is unhealthy, but again, most best sellers are about average people living normal lives and daily conversations.

My argument is that the best sellers are about that human need humans have of belong, of belonging to someone, of that emotional drive good stories have, that emotional journey that leaves us sad or leaves us happy.

Isn't that the entire point of art, of telling stories?

>>14079392
then why he's the most popular writter all time and people still goes in mass to see his works in theather even in non western nation like Japan.

why the fuck would shakespare be so fucking popular in japan?

[Anonymous No.14079435]

>>14079409
he was literally given a lord knight distinction while alive nigger.

he died wealthy.

[Anonymous No.14079436]

>good literature is marketable!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnegans_Wake#Literary_significance_and_criticism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moby-Dick#Reception
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Gatsby#Contemporary_reception

[Anonymous No.14079454]

>>14079424
>why the fuck would shakespare be so fucking popular in japan?
Because they're intelligent over there.

[Anonymous No.14079465]

>>14079454
may be, but again, shakespeare is the only writter I see that has the ability to write a really good story that rivals even modern works with a deep prose that understand human universal issues.

[Anonymous No.14079467]

>>14079435
Sure the upper class nobility liked him and the king liked it when billy sucked his willy, but the peasants? They'd rather see Sir So-and-So fight a fucking bear than listen to hamelt contemplate suicide

[Anonymous No.14079473]

Reposting >>14079420

wrt the book "The Bestseller Code".

Seems >>14079424 actually got it (mostly) right. The most important factor is having a rollercoaster plotline, lots of ups and downs with a huge climax at the end.

[Anonymous No.14079502]

>>14079436
fins wake is trash. Even if you like it it’s not hard to see why the majority wouldn’t.
Moby Dick is obviously brilliant but Melville appeared to be too neurotic and solipsistic to understand how to structure a story properly and that people don’t want to read about whale penises

Just as easily we can cite examples from history of good books being marketable. Shakespeare for example was immensely popular, so was dickens, McCarthy, Homer, and so on.

[Anonymous No.14079524]

>>14079502
pretty much.

A lot of glorified literature by academics is just boring intelectual masturbation.

I really enjoyed more tolkien works over so called cannon writers.

[Anonymous No.14079543]

You refuted your second line with your 3rd and 4th.
The whole point of art is not just to tell stories.
>What's the point of art?
If you have to ask, you'll never know. Art can and should (depending on the context; sometimes you might write a boring story just to make a point) be entertaining. But the entertainment is secondary to art's (great art's) ability to grasp at something that is not easy, or even heretofore impossible to articulate. There's a word for this, from Kant: Erhabenheit.

[Anonymous No.14079552]

>>14079524
>A lot of glorified literature by academics is just boring intelectual masturbation.

[Anonymous No.14079558]

>>14079543
that would be like saying that the intelect is more important than the heart.

I disagree, both are equally important.

without intelect, we're animals.
without our heath, there's not beauty, not value in life.

>>14079552
look up modern art, modern music and modern painting by academics.

is garbage.

[Anonymous No.14079565]

>>14079502
>Shakespeare
People saw him in theater, they hardly read his plays.
>McCarthy
An absolute "Who?" for most people.
>Homer
3,000 years ago

[Anonymous No.14079566]

>>14079502
>Melville appeared to be too neurotic and solipsistic to understand how to structure a story properly and that people don’t want to read about whale penises
Maybe because he was focused on writing about what HE is passionate about, and not to prostitute his novel in order to appeal to the public.

[Anonymous No.14079591]

>>14079558
>look up modern art, modern music and modern painting by academics.
Completely irrelevant to your claim that the literature propped up as part of a canon by modern academics is bad because it's "boring"

[Anonymous No.14079604]

>>14079591
I wasn't refering particularly to the cannon, but modern literary fiction, which reads like guys that smell their own farts.

I'm sure tolkien and harry potter will be considered intellectual literature some centuries from now.

[Anonymous No.14079629]

>>14079604

Never post on my board again you fucking faggot

[Anonymous No.14079634]

>>14079604
>harry potter will be considered intellectual literature some centuries from now
That's probably true, but not for the reasons you think.

[Anonymous No.14079640]

>>14079629
>retard doesn't know a lot of popular clasical music was just music they wrote for the masses

>>14079634
I think harry potter, taking into account is child literature is good.

It would be retarded to think harry potter is some kind of adult literature over deep topics when it was written for kids.

[Anonymous No.14079651]

>>14079634
whoa
throatcut

[Anonymous No.14079652]

>>14079198
>the most popular songs have beautiful melodies

[Anonymous No.14079670]

>>14079640
>retard who doesn't know how to spell post on a literature board while making high school level YA reader claims about the nature of literature
>while frog posting and trying to bolster his dumbass claims with irrelevant comparisons to other art forms (while also still managing to be wrong in these comparisons)
>expects everyone to bend over and suck his dick
Never post on my board again

[Anonymous No.14079673]

>>14079640
>harry potter, taking into account is child literature
>It would be retarded to think harry potter is some kind of adult literature over deep topics when it was written for kids.
I'm sure that when Rowling said Dumbledore is gay, Hermione is actually a person of color or Voldemort is inspired by Trump she was talking to a preteen audience

[Anonymous No.14079688]

>>14079670
>oh no, my deep inner thoughs about suicide with static conflict and pink and purple prose mixed with multi points of views and post modern comentary on the nature of capitalism mixed with racial comentary over our society where not a single character is an heterosexual white christian couple
yeah, nice literature, really is art.
faggot.

>but I don't read for the plot, I really need my post modern comentary about racial issues and the demise of capitalism


>>14079673
that's more like american politics garbage that is like fucking global cancer than the quality of the original story.

[Anonymous No.14079690]

>>14079374
please explain how people use the bible to reinforce their pre existing biases.

[Anonymous No.14079714]

>>14079688
All I am saying is that Harry Potter is no longer children's literature. Just like superheroes are no longer children's media. All comic book readers are adults now and the content is just as dumb.
Basically what used to be children's stuff is now for adults, and children's stuff now is elsa spiderman fever nightmare videos on YouTube.

[Anonymous No.14079717]

>>14079690
>humanity is important

>WOAH WTF HUMANITY REALLY IS IMPORTANT

[Anonymous No.14079721]

>>14079714
there's 35 year old faggots watching anime about little girls.

doens't mean the content is for adults.

[Anonymous No.14079736]

>>14079721
do kids watch anime about little girls too?
kids don't read harry potter anon, they can't physically read it
they can't even watch disney classics because they're too slow paced
the only way to produce a child that is capable of reading is to raise him a prisoner, away from society

[Anonymous No.14079743]

>>14079736
I consider everyone under 15 a kid.

mental age is not the same as biological age.

[Anonymous No.14079782]

>>14078962
For something to be a bestseller, generally, the prose needs to be easy to read, the plot needs to be easy to follow, and the subject matter has to appeal to as many people as possible. And to write beautiful prose, you do need to be intelligent. After all, Most, if not all, of the greatest writers and poets are intelligent. And writers who are capable of writing beautiful prose tend to communicate ideas which can be hard for the average person to understand, which means it can be hard for their work to appeal to a lot of people. This isnt to say there are exceptions, like william shakespear being a common example, but in general that is the gist.

[Anonymous No.14079795]

this is the kind of discussion that only an amerifag could bring forth... I'm just mad because you're poisoning my country as well.

[Anonymous No.14079796]

>>14079743
>I consider everyone under 15 a kid.
>mental age is not the same as biological age.
I know, but you never stop being 15 in 2019, that's the trick
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROJKEwYEx8Q

[Anonymous No.14079805]

>>14079796
I think is the fault of the removal of traditional roles.

If you remove traditional masculine roles and don't place any alternative, then there's nothing for males to grow up.

I think humans need such passing of age rituals.

[Anonymous No.14079809]

>>14079688
>UH SORRY SWEETY I ONLY READ FOR THE PLOT, IT'S A WASTE OF TIME TO THINK ABOUT A STORY FOR MORE THAN TEN MINUTES, I'D MUCH RATHER JUST TURN MY BRAIN OFF AND ENJOY THE POETIC PROSE OF J.K. ROWLING. I DON'T REALLY HAVE TIME FOR THAT THOUGH THE NEW STAR WARS MOVIE IS COMING OUT AND I'M HECKIN EXCITED!

[Anonymous No.14079817]

>>14079809
>kids should be reading deep philosophical essay when they're 12

[Anonymous No.14079859]

>>14078962
>eats your food
>fucks your bitch
>writes an extremely popular book in serial format that was the ‘water cooler discussion’ of its day
>it is now considered a great work of literature
Based Dumas

[Anonymous No.14079864]

>>14079817
Rowling is the physical incarnation of vapidity, Dr. Seuss has more literary merit than she does

[Anonymous No.14079867]

>>14079817
Children should really only learn logic and mathematics in school.

[Anonymous No.14079888]

>>14079864
>>14079867
https://harrypotter.bloomsbury.com/uk/jkrowling/awards/

>talking shit about one of the most awarded british literature in the last 50 years
cope more.

[Anonymous No.14079911]

>>14079888
>resorting to ad populum to win an argument
Pathetic

[Anonymous No.14079931]

>>14079911
>no harry potter isn't real literature
cope more.

http://philosophyforchildren.blogspot.com/2009/08/harry-potter.html

It's literally being used to teach philosophy to kids.

[Anonymous No.14079951]

>>14079524
is this a cannon writer?

[Anonymous No.14079961]

>>14079931
>OTHER PEOPLE AGREE WITH ME SO THAT MEANS I'M RIGHT
kek walking into a basic fallacy because he had no actual arguments what a bitch

[Anonymous No.14079971]

>>14079961
cope more, harry potter will be remembered in the future.

[Anonymous No.14080031]

>>14079971
As with white fang, little women, etc? It was just the right story at the right time, a new one will emerge and hp will become a memory

[Anonymous No.14080040]

>>14079971
>I-I'LL JUST RESTATE MY CLAIM! THAT WILL SHOW HIM!
KWAB(Kek, What A Bitch)

[Anonymous No.14080340]

>>14079971
I honestly highly doubt that. Its barely being talked about these days

[Anonymous No.14080346]

>>14080340
pretty sure most people don't even know it's a book

[Anonymous No.14081008]

My book is already written, I'm holding on to releasing it. I recognize that a lot of works got popular thanks to luck and time, so I'm waiting for the world to turn and the stars to align for me to get the kill.