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14070832 No.14070832 [Reply] [Original]

Are atheists just spiritually blind?

>> No.14070839

>>14070832
Not books.
>>>/b/

>> No.14070857

Atheists are either ignorant people who don't even read books or neckbeard cringe dudes who are like "God doesn't exist, prove me wrong". Agnostic is the way to go: I don't know if God exists or not, I just respect religions but I can't say neither he exists nor he doesn't exists because the human being is too simple and "ignorant" to get the Truth.

>> No.14070861

>>14070857
You're a faggot without the balls to believe or not.

>> No.14070866

>>14070832
Yes. Subjective experience of reality, the root of spirituality, aka the minds eye, is not a prerequisite for evolution nor does it convey any increase to genetic fitness. It is almost a statistical certainty that huge swathes of the population have no emergent psyche but simply respond to every prompt as if they did. These people would presumably self identify as atheists once they calculated that atheism is a rational position not realising that qualia precludes atheism.

>> No.14070886

>>14070832
She looked better before.

>> No.14070890 [DELETED] 

Reported. Have fun with the ban, retard. Don't come back.

>> No.14070893

>>14070886
probs because she has more manly features and you're gay

>> No.14070896

1. Supposedly, God exists and is omniscient: https://www.allaboutgod.com/god-is-omniscient-faq.htm
2. If God is omniscient, he knows everything, "everything" including the future.
3. If God knows the future, he cannot change it.
4. Thus, God is powerless.

>> No.14070897

>>14070890
Cringe and seething atheist. Go back to r/atheism, buddy. Imagine being a newfag Reddit atheist and telling someone to leave. The state of you.

>> No.14070913

>>14070893
She just looks kind of generic on the right.

>> No.14070916

>>14070857
I don't have a problem with people believing in something, I havea problem with christcucks trying to force their worldview upon literally everyone in their surroundings.

>> No.14070930

>>14070857
You can easily invalidate that contents the abrahamic religions have with today's scientific discoveries or even by reading a glimpse of Mesopotamian history.

>> No.14070959

>>14070839
what about the five other atheist threads huh? are those book threads too?

>> No.14070996

>>14070897
Have fun being banned. Not sure why this thread is still up. Christlarpers are the newfags. Every sensible man denies fairy tales.

>> No.14071002

>>14070832
Looked better before

>> No.14071009

>>14070930
Saying things like this just reveals that you've never even examined the Abrahamic religions, because if you had you would know that Christianity and Judaism/Islam are antithetical to each other.

>> No.14071032

>>14070916
What do you mean by forcing their worldview?

>> No.14071037

>>14071009
By saying things like that i can easily prove that i have examined them enough since they tried to succeed the last one by replacing the other since they are mere tools for geographical conquests since a religion can gather people from different backgrounds and ethnicities for a single purpose it makes centralizing the power structure more convenient for people who represent those religions in their highest ranks.

>> No.14071038

>>14070916
Atheism and science worship do this too, just look at all the most popular social media sites where over 50% of the worlds population visit. so does every other religion on the planet, but Christianity seems to get the most hate. Not all Christians do this, probably only a small number, just like not all muslims blow themselves up, not all jews are money hungry pedophiles, not all atheists are science worshipping faggots, some of them just havent found God yet.

>> No.14071055

>>14071037
Unfortunately for you Christianity teaches moral indignation, not conformity, resistance to the point of death even, as opposed to the submission to rabbis or imams of Islam/Judaism. Your narrative is therefore absurd to anyone with the most cursory familiarity of the underlying subject material.

>> No.14071065
File: 150 KB, 1172x659, Yes.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14071065

>>14070959

>> No.14071076

>>14071055
I am not talking about morality or conformity nor do i take any sides here i am just with the truth nothing else.All the abrahamic religions have their basis of origin in the old sumerian myths and culture which they were derived from.

>> No.14071101

>>14070930
>I can't support the spiritual content of a book because people thousands of years ago weren't as good at maths as us now
What a closed minded view, even lots of recent history is inaccurate and a biased perspective is put forwards on both sides (like the Iraq war for example) but you expect people thousands of years ago to project a perfectly analytic interpretation. Even if God is all knowing, it doesn't mean his followers are.

>> No.14071103

>>14070832
She's cuter on the left

>> No.14071118

>>14071076
By that logic so does most of science have it's basis in Christianity/Islam as they were the societies they were born out of. Just as with science, spiritual knowledge progresses with the times and most build from the backs of their forefathers but that doesn't mean that is all they are.

>> No.14071122

>>14071103
She looks souless in both

>> No.14071125

>>14071038
There are entire Christian organizations focused on doing that. It's just a lot more visible in the third world.

>> No.14071128

>>14071101
You are stupid.I was talking about the idea behind those myths and what they served for developed the abrahamic religions we have today.It all boils down to geographic conditions, law, order and power structure when it comes to them.You need to know literally every detail that was written in these periods to understand my narrative here.But i wouldnt expect a religious zealot to think more flexible than this.

>> No.14071132

>>14071125
then they are not Christian

>> No.14071135

>>14071076
Ahh, I see you watched Zeitgeist and think you know something. Are you aware that Kings are often identified with the Sun, such as Louis of France, despite their being absolutely no "irrationality" of the sort you attribute to the connection between, i.e. Jesus and the Sun?

We have the benefit of the printing press, encyclopedias, and a relatively fixed spelling / vocabulary in the modern age, but everything in the past was a game of telephone. It is not hard to imagine that, lacking these tools, history would come to view the relationship of the Sun King of France as yet another iteration of the mythological archetype, a misunderstanding by shallow minds inhibited only by recent technology that minimizes the consequences of the telephone game.

Instead, the people who called Louis the Sun King did it as an analogy, a recognition of feelings of warmth, or life giving / protecting leadership, etc. Unfortunately, there are people so hopelessly stupid (such as yourself) that they have to latch onto purposeful misconstructions of analogies that have been translated through multiple languages, taken out of context, and even purposefully altered from extant originals, in order to find something to validate their own utterly contemptible intelligence.

>> No.14071138

>>14071118
That is actually true since religion and spiritualism was a big motivation to uncover the mysterious of the world we live in.Even Galileo was a hardcore catholic that actually wanted to find scientific evidence on world being flat but ended up discovering its actually round.

>> No.14071143
File: 40 KB, 356x566, jawbone-art.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14071143

Is South Korea the herald of Land's AI?

>> No.14071163

>>14071135
I have seen zeitgeist a decade ago and it didnt surprise me in anyway but further reinforced by curiosity on this since i was always skeptical about abrahamic religions which made me look deeper into it throughout the years.I know many of the context from zeigeist are bullshit but it still doesnt change the fact that the core ideas behind the narrative was strong enough to make it credible for the reasons that i have listed before in my other posts which you didnt try to refute at all since all you delusional religious zealots do is personally attack someone when you find a small flaw in their argument while missing the actual point in the discussion and the arguments. liek with your "haha u watched zeitgeist that is all you base ur argument from checkmate" moment which is quite childish of you.

>> No.14071168

The soul does not exist. Science has proved this a long time ago.

How can you reconcile religion when the soul is a fake construct?

>> No.14071182

>>14071168
Only delusional imbeciles believe in such dogmatic teachings in these days.It is like a comfort zone for them, just like their mother's basement.

>> No.14071190

I don't how science could even in principle prove the soul doesn't exist because if the soul existed it would be immaterial. What empirical evidence or experiment do you believe disproved the existence of the soul? Of course, you're going to have to define what you mean by soul before you show me the experiment.

>> No.14071204

>>14071190
But you are the one that is claiming the soul exists by imposing your religious beliefs on people so you must have a way to explain that it is real somehow otherwise you would drown in your own bullshit.

>> No.14071206

>>14070832
Yes but it requires a bit of clarification.
Faith is a 'given' more than anything else. Of course the action of the indi idual subject is paramount, but God still does the big work in this. That being said people are still responsible for it as God wants to save all.
Opposite to this you have the heresy of Calvin saying that God only gives election to a few men. From this premisse the others are indeed doomed and there is nothing you can do about it.
The diagnosis of blindness may be right but it must be born in mind that the remedy is not to focus on their incomplete philosophy or psycobabble about their lives. You should ask God to increase their opportunity for faith.

>> No.14071216

>>14071204
I haven't claimed or imposed anything other than pointing out that science can't say anything on the matter.

>> No.14071222

>>14070996
>Every sensible man denies fairy tales.
Fairy tales exist and I have read plenty of them.

>> No.14071229

>>14071222
I don't think he was talking about the literary of the context but rather the credibility behind the context.

>> No.14071233

>>14070832
I wouldn't phrase it like that, but something in that direction. What happened is that at some point all contents of religious texts and their implementation in organized religion and dogmatism got conflated for most people. There are some people open enough to attempt to separate the two and then there are others who simply can't and never will even consider it. The question of the day is merely "does god exist?", which is really a stupid or at least very boring question to ask. The much more interesting question that people should rather be asking is "What is god?".

>>14071229
Here lies the problem: Not every story is meant to be a historical report, in fact most of them are not. Even though the stories may not be factual, they still contain deep truths about the human experience.

>> No.14071241

>>14070893
>t. chinlet

>> No.14071243

>>14071233
you deny evolution and say that the world is 6k years old stfu

>> No.14071250

>>14071233
>Here lies the problem: Not every story is meant to be a historical report, in fact most of them are not. Even though the stories may not be factual, they still contain deep truths about the human experience.
I know that since if they didnt serve a purpose they wouldnt have existed until this period i agree with you but that doesnt make them any less true.

>> No.14071304

I won't say that every single atheist is retarded but every single atheist that I've interacted with has been retarded. They're philosophically, scientifically, and historically ignorant. I have spent years studying these subjects for over 10 years now and I have not had one single interaction with them that has been interesting. I have no respect for them.

>> No.14071324

>>14070832
>>14070857
(1/2)
It's not a matter of spiritual rejection, whatever this might mean, and instead it's about lack of evidence. No evidence has been provided for any claim about the existence of a god and thus, the only logical position is to withhold judgement. Thus, atheists "lack the belief" and don't deny the existence of a god (God, in your case) as you state.

Atheism is only the lack of belief in any god(s) or deity(ies). Why "lack of belief" rather than "unbelief"? Personally, I find that "unbelief" implies some sort of active and constant process which "lack of belief" does not and that's why it is important to use the right term if you want to be intelectually honest.
The theists make claims of god(s) as described in the religious texts and from there they form their beliefs. Atheists realize that such claims are unsubstantiated and not an ounce of evidence has ever been provided to support them. Does that mean that atheists are certain that a god doesn't exist? Well, we can at least be certain that the different versions of god, as despicted in the different religious text written by humans, don't exist. What about other types of gods? Probably they exist but these aren't the types of gods people usually talk about.

It could be argued that most atheists are actually agnostic atheists since agnosticism and atheisms aren't mutually exclusive. The former is about knowledge and the latter is about belief. Thus we can have four combinations: gnostic theist, gnostic atheist, agnostic theist and agnostic atheist.
Out of those four the only honest position is agnostic atheist:

* gnostic theist would mean that you have concrete knowledge about the existence of a god and that's why you believe in it. Now, if you've such knowledge the least you can do is provide the necessary evidence for other people to corroborate your claim.

* gnostic atheist would mean that you have concrete knowledge about the inexistence of a god and that's why you lack any belief in it. However, as the gnostic theist, you'd need to provide the necessary evidence to corroborate your claim. Nonetheless, this position can be localized. For instance, we can be gnostic atheists about the gods described in the different religious texts. Why? In the last few centuries, science has closed many of the gaps that all the religious texts assigned to the hands of god(s) and that couldn't be explained otherwise. We have a better, albeit less than complete, picture about the universe, our place in it, the human origin, etc. Nowadays, instead of just saying "Well, god did it!", we have definitive ways to explain stuffs w/o relying on an external and unexplainable force.

>> No.14071333

>>14071233
>stories aren’t meant to be literal they say something deep about the human experience
Atheists don’t object to the Bible being read as a fiction/mythology book the same way we read Shakespeare or Homer. I as an agnostic openly admit that the Bible is an important text with some beautiful and profound insights. However, religious people do not read the Bible as a mythology book. They believe that the god described there is real, the book is gods word, god inspired the writing of the book, and the events, with the exception of the ones which are scientifically implausible, all literally happened. This is what people object to. You can say this is not the case but if it wasn’t Christianity wouldn’t be a religion but a mythology and the bible would be viewed the way we view Ovid and Homer.
t. Deconverted catholic who suffered immense cognitive dissonance when reading the questionable parts of the bible until I deconverted and started reading it more like a mythological epic.

>> No.14071343

>>14070832
>>14070857
>>14071324
(2/2)
* agnostic theist means that you have no knowledge whatsoever about the existence of a god but you still believe in it. This is quite the peculiar position to have because how many things in real life do you fervently believe for which you don't have evidence at all? You can say it's faith but what's faith but believe w/o evidence?

* agnostic atheist means you have no knowledge whatsoever about the existence of a god but this isn't a license to believe in it. You hold your judgement until new evidence comes in and what better way to do this than "lacking such belief" and not acting upon it. However, as I said, gnostic atheism can be localized but for most practical purposes, I prefer to go with agnotic atheism.

>> No.14071384

>>14071229
All fairy tales have very important teachings and principles in them. They are not random autistic collections of elements and colors.

>> No.14071401

>>14071333
>Atheists don’t object to the Bible being read as a fiction/mythology book the same way we read Shakespeare or Homer.
Don't generalize. There are plenty of atheists who want to burn all bibles. Just because you don't feel like it doesn't mean they don't make themselves into big warning signs for theists.

>> No.14071403

>>14071384
The collection of experiences that are depicted in them might be true but the context of them are fabricated that is my point.

>> No.14071410

>>14071243
I don't. Fundamentalists are a fringe group among religious people.

>>14071333
See above, by far most religious people I've met are not fundamentalists. Religion is a fluid thing, it is what people make it to be. A thousand years ago, the way it worked best was to convince people that there is literally some sort of supernatural power. In days of common education, this is not the case any longer. It will eventually change and become something else, something new. I don't know what it will be, but let's see how it turns out.

>> No.14071414

>>14071403
>that is my point.
I don't think you have a point, honestly.

>> No.14071425

>>14071410
It already became something else the most widespread religion today is consumerism/money.

>> No.14071431

>>14070861
See >>14071324 and >>14071343.
Agnosticism isn't a middleground between theism and atheism; it answers a totally different question. It's unfortunate that it confuses both theists and self-proclaimed agnostics (a)theists.
It seems that >>14070857 is either confused about the terminology or has given it a new meaning not other person agrees with.
>>14071384
Unless you're a fedora tipper (aka, /r/atheism), I don't think you can deny this. Even mythological epics have important teachings and principles but they aren't put in pedestal as modern religions. Amid all the disastrous things that have been done in the name of and because of religious teachings, I consider religion has played an important role in different civilizations throughout the world. For instance, in the book Seven Types of Atheism the author argues that many of the values espoused by atheists are Christian values, however this doesn't make Christianity claims any more valid. I wouldn't have any problem with religion if it didn't espouse dangerous beliefs and willingness to carry them out in the namr of their god, have a us vs them mentality, discourage critical thinking, etc.

>> No.14071445 [DELETED] 

>>14071103
That's just Asian folks lacking expressive features

>> No.14071455

>>14071122
That's just Asian folks lacking expressive features

>> No.14071466

>>14071425
I don't think so.

>> No.14071467

>>14070896
>3. If God knows the future, he cannot change it.
Why not? Shit argument based on false premise

>> No.14071479

>>14071401
Lmao I can’t believe I share a board with retards like you.

>> No.14071497

>>14071324
>Atheism is only the lack of belief
Do Christians become atheists every night when they go to sleep and then reconvert to Christianity when they wake up?

>> No.14071512

>>14071410
>I don't. Fundamentalists are a fringe group among religious people.
ah so you pick and choose from your own holy text. very noble

>> No.14071522

>>14071410
I believe the only reason you are forced to retreat into making it a “fluid thing” is because you cannot defend it on its own grounds. Can a Christian really be a Christian if he says “I don’t believe Yahweh exists; I don’t believe Jesus rose from the dead.”? He can’t. But on your flaccid, nondescript view of religion he can. I think it’s mental gymnastics on your part because as soon as we introduce rigid definitions and testing methods religion isn’t able to hold water.
So I ask: what is your definition of religion if it isn’t what everyone has traditionally viewed it as?

>> No.14071531

>>14071467
If he can change the future, then he didn't know the future in the first place. Are you retarded or something?

>> No.14071540

>>14071531
>If he can change the future, then he didn't know the future in the first place.
Another false premise, wow very impressive arguments. I tip to you, enjoy the gold and upboat.

>> No.14071545

>>14071540
>Another false premise
Prove it.

>> No.14071567

>>14071545
You say that like you can prove any of your retarded claims but I'll bite anyways.
If God can change the future that requires knowledge of what the future was already going to be.
If God is omniscient and omnipotent, the future must be known to God because God decides the future.
There is no contradiction between God's knowledge of and deciding of the future.

>> No.14071569

>>14071545
anon christians are too retarded to argue with just give up

>> No.14071576

>>14071567
>If God can change the future that requires knowledge of what the future was already going to be.
What the fuck are you talking about? I can change the future and I don't have knowledge of it. Wow, you're genuinely brain-dead.

>> No.14071615

>>14071567
>If God can change the future that requires knowledge of what the future was already going to be.

>> No.14071620

>>14071576
>I can change the future and I don't have knowledge of it.
Why can't God change it with knowledge of it then?
Also, prove it. Prove you have free will, prove that your actions are not determined. Please do, if you can then you'll have saved us all from the possibility of determinism that has been debated for so long.
You're obviously an intellectual genius, so enlighten me, would ya?

>> No.14071624

>>14071615
Without there being an a priori future it is not possible to 'change' the future.

>> No.14071625

>>14071620
>Why can't God change it with knowledge of it then?
He knows what is going to happen.
If he changes what is going to happen, then his previous knowledge was wrong.
What do you not understand?

>> No.14071653

>>14071625
>If he changes what is going to happen, then his previous knowledge was wrong.
You imply that God can't have knowledge of multiple possibilities determined by God's actions.
Also, I see no proof of your free will, looks like you're a determined being after all.

>> No.14071659

>>14071653
>You imply that God can't have knowledge of multiple possibilities determined by God's actions.
There is only one future that actually happens.
>Also, I see no proof of your free will, looks like you're a determined being after all.
>trying to change the subject

>> No.14071700

>>14071659
Multiple possibilities =/= more than one timeline existing
>>trying to change the subject
>What the fuck are you talking about? I can change the future and I don't have knowledge of it. Wow, you're genuinely brain-dead.
How can you change the future if there is only one? Not a change of subject, an address of an unsubstantiated claim.

>> No.14071719

>>14071700
>How can you change the future if there is only one?
What do you mean? There's no contradiction there.

>> No.14071742

>>14071625
You are an idiot. He knows it would be A without His intervention. He wants it to be B. So He changes it to be B. Pretty fucking simple.

God is higher dimensional in nature, His actions seem paradoxical to us in any case.

>> No.14071748

>>14070832
Why is this kind of garbage troll thread allowed? Are mods incapable of doing their jobs?

>> No.14071750

>>14071742
>His actions seem paradoxical to us in any case.
What a boring excuse for logical inconsistency.

>> No.14071765

>>14070857
I'm religious, I have respect for agnostics like you in a weird way.
But I disagree, atheists are not /all/ ignorant. Online you'll find a lot of avid, ignorant atheists. But I think not believing in god is fine, as long as you respect other's choice to believe. It works both ways.

>> No.14071775

>>14070896
You're looking at it wrong.
God exists outside of time.
He is separate from it thus can change it if he wishes. Either way he knows the outcome.

>> No.14071779

>>14070832
Wtf she looked qter before. They fucked her jaw. Wtf is wrong with ppl?

>> No.14071883
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14071883

>>14070886
>>14070893
before is a well nourished and healthy woman (apparent from her facial bones and symmetry) who is able to rise strong and healthy children. after is just a malnourished mentally damaged fuck toy that commits suicide after the first wrinkle.
who'd you trust to protect your children. a tigress or a chicken?

>> No.14072051

>>14070896
>God is not omnipotent because he doesn't create stuff with internal contradictions, so God isn't real
Shit tier non-argument

>> No.14072053

>>14071750
What part about "higher dimensional processes literally are unable to be processed by our 3D brains" don't you understand?

>> No.14072059

>>14070916
>I havea problem with christcucks trying to force their worldview
Get used to it faggot. I am sick and tired of your ilk enforcing polyamory and tranny culture as a valid lifestyle too.

>> No.14072082

>>14071168
>Science has proved this a long time ago
Citation needed

>> No.14072090

>>14070893
Before is 100x better than the after, she just wanted to look like a kpop star or anime character

>> No.14072144
File: 73 KB, 630x750, mooney1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14072144

Daily reminder it has been empirically proven religiosity stifles scientific innovation.

https://www.princeton.edu/~rbenabou/papers/Religion%20December%201g_snd.pdf
http://www.nber.org/papers/w21052.pdf

Daily reminder the overwhelming majority of leading scientists are atheists

https://www.nature.com/articles/28478
https://evolution-outreach.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1936-6434-6-33

Daily reminder most philosophers are atheists

https://philpapers.org/surveys/results.pl

Daily reminder religious people are less intelligent according to dozens of studies.

http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/The_Relation_Between_Intelligence_and_Religiosity__A_Meta-Analysis_and_Some_Proposed_Explanations.pdf

Daily reminder religious people are less educated

https://www.economist.com/news/international/21623712-how-education-makes-people-less-religiousand-less-superstitious-too-falling-away

Religious people are literally a lesser breed of human

>> No.14072181

>>14071569
Don't be mean.

>> No.14072264
File: 976 KB, 2508x2332, IMG_2622.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14072264

bingus

>> No.14072288

>>14072144
Atheists have autism the religious have schizophrenia.

>> No.14072294

>>14071531

I don't follow. Knowing is not zero-sum. No one knows any one thing at the price of not knowing any other thing.

>> No.14072316

>>14070832
Definitely prefer before... Such a shame their culture is like that but it's probably just as bad in different ways in the west.

>> No.14072329

>>14070896
>3. If God knows the future, he cannot change it
anon... easy on the retardedness

>> No.14072334

>>14071168
>The soul does not exist. Science has proved this a long time ago
You know it's pretty silly to assert things like this. Do you think this is true? Can you even point to where it's been disproven or are you just making shit up?

>> No.14072645 [DELETED] 

>>14072053
create a logical inconsistency in a 2d realm using your 3d superiority

>> No.14072740
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14072740

>>14070832

>> No.14072921

>>14071497
do christians stop believing in god at night?

>> No.14073533

>>14070832
What a downgrade. Why are east asian standards of beauty so warped?

>> No.14073538

>>14070832
I don't know I believe in Darwin

>> No.14073575

>>14070896
You are such a fucking virgin.
Why would something that much greater than man be subject to mans logic

>> No.14073583

>>14072144
t. Rick Sanchez