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/lit/ - Literature

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14065788 No.14065788 [Reply] [Original]

As a female writer how do I write male characters without turning them into faggots?

>> No.14065801

>>14065788
Get a boyfriend and observe his personality, you landwhale femcel

>> No.14065803

>>14065788
women love to be pampered for free
99% of men are omegas who love be women janitors

>> No.14066062

You post pics of your feet in this thread.

>> No.14066078

>>14065788
have actual friends and insert them into the story. it works for me.

>> No.14066080

You just imagine every male as a faggot desperate to not be discovered by others to be a faggot

>> No.14066100

I hate male characters that are over-the-top manly, but I also hate those cringy feminine guys written by females to counteract the former.
Just don't think about their gender too much and focus on how they behave in their social environment. It comes naturally

>> No.14066101

>>14065788
Do you see man as faggots? Then put your impressions of them into your book.
A writer that doesn't write his impressions will never be a good one.

>> No.14066116

Just write like they were women, but add accountability and reason

>> No.14066159

>>14066116
>add accountability and reason
As if

>> No.14066180
File: 1.14 MB, 250x250, 1547685070845.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14066180

>>14066116

>> No.14066203

You already failed.

>> No.14066269

>>14066180
>>14066159
>>14066116
Cringe

>> No.14066271

>>14066078
what if your friends are also all faggots

>> No.14066289
File: 674 KB, 1000x625, 28D319FE-99F3-47E7-9E7B-3002AD9E1A3D.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14066289

>>14065788
Lots of prime examples right here on lit ...oh wait. You said you wanted non-faggots

>> No.14066296
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14066296

>>14065788
Think of a woman, and add reason and accountability

>> No.14066305

>>14066296
Except this is wrong, you see?

>> No.14066324

>>14065788
>without turning them into faggots
why are they turning into faggots? do you simply mean they are emotional? what is the context of your story?

>> No.14066355

Just make them emotionless and unsociable

>> No.14066364

>>14065788
Refrain from making them kiss boys, think about kissing boys, or lament the fact that they're not kissing boys

>> No.14066376
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14066376

>>14065788
Maybe treat characters as individuals, rather than representatives of their sex? If you aren't already seeing them as unique figures with their own complex of motivations, self-deceptions, capabilities etc you're a shit writer with no experience of life or, even worse, a crap human--in which case, don't write. The fact you need to ask says a lot.

>> No.14066381

>>14065788
Examine the lives of criminals, vagrants, and soldiers from wars that actually mattered. Liberal society ruins men; wars and conflicts create them.

>> No.14066386

>>14065788
post tits

>> No.14066392
File: 86 KB, 278x459, tumblr_inline_ott1onH9RG1tgumnj_540.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14066392

>>14065788
I'd say men tend to be less gabby but also less self aware. They're quicker to jump to deep subjects around me, but also quicker to make mistakes due to a general lack of respect for nuance. Women are often more interested in prolonging conversations while men always have something to finish, even if it's not an argument. I'd say that maybe men just like me less, but I get a fair bit of attention from the homos, and even there I see the same tendencies. Sometimes it's better to be that way, sometimes it's not. I would avoid making a pro/con traits men or women have, and instead look at the pros and cons of the traits themselves, in a variable context.

It's also worth noting that people can subvert their traits. I think a large part of appearing motherly/fatherly is a kind of tolerance for the traits from the opposite gender. Being able to humor someone in such a fashion that you're obvious, but not condescending, is supremely parental and a large part of why RDJ's goofier antics put him in the Daddy Zone.

Regarding his more condescending witticism, there's a lot of variance. Sometimes it's the straightfoward male impatience I mentioned earlier: the sword-and-board. Other times he's using his male insider-knowlage to form a shotel specifically for countering this tactic. The first strategy takes itself to be straightforward, while the second forces them to reevaluate what straightness really is--not only in the "haha gay" sense but also say, euclidian versus spherical geometry. But even in the gay sense, it's still pretty reasonable to conceive of male conflict as "No, YOU'RE the one who's gay for ME!" even in cases where this is subverted via literal homosexuality; something like "No, gay is the straight!" is yet another step forward in the sword-and-shotel process.

I should warn you that if you give a character the cool shotel without them having derived it from the first mode, you'll get someone like Dr. Who or TV Sherlock or some other witty "where's my sidekick?" BBC character that women love and men roll their eyes at; they'll come off as either unbelievable or a little insincere compared to, say, Mr. Rodgers. Sorry for tangling all those phalluses though but men also tend to imagine sex and violence a lot.

>>14066080
A pretty good answer.

>> No.14066401
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14066401

>>14066392
NEVER post on my board again

>> No.14066418

>>14066392
>a pro/con traits
of traits

>> No.14066426

If you need to be asking such basic questions, you shouldn't be writing.

>> No.14066432

>>14066426
If you need to make such a basic reply, you shouldn't be replying. Hell, you shouldn't be breathing either. So please do the world a favor and finally kill yourself.

>> No.14066493

>>14065788
Post feet

>> No.14066501

>>14066364
you can be not gay and still be a faggot

>>14066355
aka make them autistic

>>14066116
based

>> No.14066602

>>14065788
>>14066392
Just dawned on me:
https://youtu.be/oHC1230OpOg

>> No.14066844

>>14066392
thread related: >>14065587

>> No.14066861

>>14066269
incel

>> No.14066879

>>14066392
I mean I don't mean to be rude but I don't know any other way to say it:

How do you manage to write so much and say so little?

>> No.14066907

>>14066392
>men less self aware than women
You are a women arent you? You will never know

>> No.14066926
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14066926

>>14066392
>RDJ's goofier antics put him in the Daddy Zone
Get the fuck out of here.

>> No.14067028

>>14066879
How do you manage to see so much and read so little?

>>14066907
There're sufficient context clues in the post to deduce otherwise, anon.

>>14066926
Basic observation of how he's seen by others shows this

>> No.14068117

>>14066381
Why, what's so nonfaggoty about criminals, vagrants, and soldiers?

>> No.14068126

>>14065788
just don’t write anything it’s not for you trust me

>> No.14068326

>>14065788
Read the biographies of great men.

>> No.14068414

>>14068117
Criminals and vagrants often murder, steal, and rape without remorse, overthrow the rule of others, and on top of that, establish new hierarchies under their physical and psychical dominance of the weaker men around them. They're extreme, but creating characters by referring to extremes and softening them to your liking will give you better results. The lives of well-known soldiers and military men who became leaders will show you the kind of shit these men go through and what builds character for them. The biggest issue with men today is that they didn't have to go through required military service.

>> No.14068443

>>14066879
Have you never spoken to a female before? This is exactly how they speak.

Men are autistic and to the point. Our brains are higher in testosterone, we care less about our emotions and more about the world.

When men are presented with a problem, they instantly begin searching for a solution. When women are presented with a problem, they start empathising with the person who has the problem and telling them how much the cause of the problem sucks.

If you want to write characters, you should be reading psychology books on relationships.

>> No.14068490

>>14068443
Very incel post

>> No.14068498

>>14066392
>>14066844
another: >>14068097
just count how much more often "You" comes up compared to "I"

>> No.14068523
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14068523

>>14068490
NOOOOO NOOOOO YOU CANT CALL ME INCEL AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA NOOOO HOW DARE YOU!!! FIE! THE SINGLE WORD UTTERANCE USED BY KEKOLDS AND STRUMPETS ALIKE!! MY DAY IS RUINED AND MY REPUTATION IS DAMAGED BEYOND REPAIR! FUCK YOUUUUU

>> No.14068566

>>14068490
have sex

>> No.14068589

>>14068443
>Have you never spoken to a female before? This is exactly how they speak.
Your own post is probably the most similar to >>14066392 in the thread

>> No.14068594
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14068594

>>14066116

>> No.14068615

>>14066432
Cope

>> No.14068710
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14068710

>>14066116

>> No.14068730
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14068730

>>14066392
>but men also tend to imagine sex and violence a lot.
Pretty meaningless post for the most part but the end here is big true.

>> No.14068793

>>14068589
Care to elaborate on how you came to this retarded conclusion?

>> No.14068805
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14068805

>>14066116
Roastie status: destroyed

>> No.14068818
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14068818

>>14066861
>>14068490
>>14066861
>these are the people calling others "incel" online

>> No.14068830

>>14068818
>top ten anime betrayal.
I am surprised they could suspend their 69 long enough scriptpost this hard.

>> No.14068846
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14068846

>>14068818
>>14068830
btfo

>> No.14068886

>>14068793
reading the posts

>> No.14068889

Straight men aren't all that complex. They are simply borderline sociopaths who enjoy committing violent crimes and see women as sex machines and baby makers.

>> No.14068902
File: 117 KB, 282x313, gopli.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14068902

>>14068889
False. Women are far too erratic to be properly classified as machines. They are closer to fuck beasts and child shitters.

>> No.14068935

>>14065788
Nice bait thread, OP. I do believe I have the solution. To defeat your enemy, you must become your enemy's enemy. You have to know what he is thinking and how to proceed. If you do so, then you just might be able to out proceed his procedure, and flank him where he least expects it. And that is, my friend, that is in his balls. Deep down, in his balls, he is vulnerable. Should he proceed lineally, you must likewise proceed with a linear mindset, but with circular process, and swing from the left or the right, top or bottom, unto the balls. Should he proceed circularly, you must proceed with a circular mindset, with a linear process straight into the balls. Why must you do this? As I said: the balls are vulnerable. And you must understand your enemy. So to understand your enemy is to understand his balls. You seek to write about a man, yet you do not know the ways of men, of balls, and therefore you must dive straight into the unknown. Immerse yourself in the experience. Otherwise you will not understand the enemy; the man. Yes, OP, yes. I am telling you to suck on my balls. And when I approach the ineluctable finish and burst out in triumphant agony, your face obfuscated by cascading jism, splurting from my cock, I bid you farewell and hope that you will someday show improvement with your newfound understanding of maleness.

>> No.14068993

>>14068935
good to know how many things people can't see

>> No.14069003

>>14068993
Good sir I am not undertend what you are mean by that post.

>> No.14069024

>>14069003
If someone copies you but misses a detail, then you know what flew over their head.

>> No.14069044

>>14069024
If there are two then there are one. Sometimes they can't be there but the consequences are obvious. Regardless it doesn't explain the subjugation of it's entirety. It's impossible to include it all.

>> No.14069048

>>14069044
Good of you to admit that

>> No.14069062

>>14066289
Don’t care didn’t ask plus your white

>> No.14069064

>>14065788
What do you think makes your male character faggots? They're limp wristed and whiny? Usually guys start with the idea that they will have to earn shit. Even the rich guys who don't have to earn shit will think in terms of earning stuff with their own hands. It's a common hypocrisy you see in men.

>> No.14069067

>>14065788
write them based on males you know in real life

>> No.14069101

>>14065788
obnoxious constant libido
high suspicion of strangers to the point of contemplating how violent you would have to be with them to make them run away
impulsive behavior
denial of expressing emotions
weird constant hostile homosexual innuendo towards friends with no sense of irony

>> No.14069103

>>14068414
Idk anon "physical dominance of other men" sounds pretty gay to me

>> No.14069105

>>14069103
men are pretty gay

>> No.14069106

>>14065788
Would you want to be their friend or would you want them to choke you?
That is how you will know.

>> No.14069112

>>14068414
>The biggest issue with men today is that they didn't have to go through required military service.
I wonder what could be responsible for the increased rates of mental illness in men, hmm.

>> No.14069121

>>14066116
classic

>> No.14069131

>>14069024
>>14069044
>>14069044
To many boundaries. In fact I would state the opposite. From one there is two. From two things, there is four things. For me, this is a very simple philosophical concept that is hard to explain in detail because of its intuitive nature. I am no teacher. I am no student. I am simply a moron, writing nonsense in an attempt of verbose humor. I have been humbled

>> No.14069172

>>14069112
Society being liberal and shitty.

>> No.14069200

>>14065788
Make them gay as God intended, sweaty.

>> No.14069206

>>14066116
Must be hard to do. Guess this is why there aren't really any good female authors.

>> No.14069212

>>14068414
>The biggest issue with men today is that they didn't have to go through required military service.
South Korean men have to do required military service and they still turn out extremely feminine

>> No.14069222

>>14069172
Yeah I guess that's why vets stationed in foreign countries get mental illness so often

>> No.14069224

>>14069212
Not by Asian standards.

>> No.14069232

>>14069222
They were already raised in this garbage society so they couldn't handle it mentally. It's not the military service to blame, but the society that made them hypersensitive to mere death, something that is an everyday occurrence in the rest of the animal kingdom. Barbarian tribes donned the skulls of the slain some several thousand years ago as a part of their millennia-old culture.

>> No.14069233

>>14069222
Honestly more men kill themselves than ever in general. Veterans are ignored while trannies get all the attention but men in general have it pretty bad in modern society. It's all expectations and zero rewards, no mobility, human relationships disintegrated, no reason to marry. It sucks.

>> No.14069238

>>14069212
Not every korean looks like a pretty boy

>> No.14069245

>>14069232
>They were already raised in this garbage society so they couldn't handle it mentally.
Most the vets I know were groomed by their parents, go fuck yourself. Suicide's not new, it's borderline cliche.

>> No.14069246

>>14069224
They are literally the most feminine asians, tying maybe with Japan.

>> No.14069257

>>14069245
Western society has been going down the rabbit hole of feminization since the Renaissance, buddy. They were groomed by their equally docile and clueless parents.

>> No.14069267

>>14069257
Yeah liberal households love grooming kids to join rank and file, they love the military.

>> No.14069278

>>14065788
Add meat and monster trucks and have him go skeet shooting with the boys every weekend

>> No.14069282

>>14069267 (me)
>liberal
And if it wasn't clear to anyone, I'm not using this in the sense a cynic would call someone neoliberal. I mean any old vaguely self-proclaimed left-winged household.

>> No.14069305

>>14069267
You don't get it, do you? Everyone's liberal today compared to antiquity. How else would we reach a point where basically no one believes in mandatory military service for men anymore?

>> No.14069335

>>14069305
>to antiquity
where suicide still existed

>> No.14069346

>>14069335
They were manly enough to actually kill themselves in most cases. Now they take meds and whine all the fucking time.

>> No.14069355

>>14069346
I can tell that suicide alternates from being brave to cowardly for you depending only on what helps you win the argument.

>> No.14069373

>>14069355
It's not about winning an argument on fucking 4chan with anonymous, faggot. You just don't grasp what masculinity entails.

>> No.14069379

>>14069373
You just haven't seen enough death.

>> No.14069390

>>14069379
>You would think differently if you felt as much fear as regularly as me
Yeah, and you would think differently if you felt as much power as regularly as stronger men, too. This one-sided take of yours doesn't reason out.

>> No.14069401

>>14069390
I wish I felt more fear.

>> No.14069407

>>14069401
Despair, sadness, etc.? My point remains regardless. Your emotions are in equal standing with mine in terms of attaining truth.

>> No.14069410

>>14069407
No, they're actually far lower. I regret desensitization. I'm speaking to you as I would to myself: you're making a mistake.

>> No.14069411

>>14069410
Indifference is no closer to truth than fervor.

>> No.14069412

>>14069401
not the guy you're having an argument with but you really don't.
or maybe you do, as long as it's the fun kind of fear, the kind you get from watching a scary movie or going on a scary ride at a theme park. not the kind of fear that threatens to destroy your being and or way of life.

>> No.14069419

>>14069412
>the fun kind of fear
The kind that lets you help people

>>14069411
>Indifference
Really?

>> No.14069426

>>14069419
Whiny pansies like you is precisely why I advocate for mandatory military service. You aren't saying a damn thing, just bleating like a cunt's time of the month.

>> No.14069427

>>14069419
i guess from a moralistic point of view the fear that lets you help people is desirable over the sense of security that lets you destroy people.

>> No.14069430

>>14069062
My white what?
>Didn’t ask
Who are you even?

>> No.14069442

>>14069426
>mandatory military service.
You haven't figured it out, have you? I'll put it like this; save for one suicide, my friends have been killed only by men. If you don't die fighting, your kids will kill themselves.

>> No.14069458

>>14069442
There's worse things than death. Living in a liberal shithole that tries its hardest to destroy itself and everything great ever achieved is one, for starters.

>> No.14069461

>>14069458
You'll regret not caring enough.

>> No.14069466

>>14069461
Regret is for people who think the past exists.

>> No.14069470

>>14069466
And you'll regret.

>> No.14069475

>>14069470
Yeah? Why?

>> No.14069476

>>14069466
>>14069470
what is that quote by Kant ? The essence of all philosophy ?

>> No.14069482

>>14069476
Sorry not Kant. Kierkegaard.

>> No.14069489

>>14065788
Masculinity is misandry, above all else. It's why men, hetero men, hate seeing it in women. It's why those women look like dykes without my saying so.

>> No.14069511

>>14069489
It's not misandry. It's what the psychiatric community calls, based on pseudoscience, psychopathy.

>> No.14069528

>>14069482
>Hang yourself, you will regret it; do not hang yourself, and you will regret that too; hang yourself or don't hang yourself, you'll regret it either way; whether you hang yourself or do not hang yourself, you will regret both. This, gentlemen, is the essence of all philosophy.
It's very Kierkegaard.

>> No.14069537

>>14069528
the essence of all philosophy...
and truly, there is no counter-argument.

>> No.14069556

>>14069528
Regret isn't the problem, nihilism is.

>> No.14069578
File: 880 KB, 976x2062, homo_girl.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14069578

>>14065788
There's nothing wrong with having faggot boys.

>> No.14069579

>>14068443
this is literally the opposite of how my wife and I work. Maybe genders aren't monolithic, woooah

>> No.14069669

>>14069579
You're so progressive!
Be sure to show her your post, you'll get good boy points!

>> No.14069698

>>14069579
So you act like a woman and your wife acts like a man? Sounds pretty gay, anon

>> No.14069721

>>14065788
Base them off of actual men. Remove fujoshi goggles.

>> No.14069727

>>14065788
Imagine being a woman but everyone mistrusts you and is afraid of you, all your romantic prospects shun you, they don't contribute, they expect everything for nothing and are incredible sensitive and self centered.

>> No.14069763

>>14065788

Curious.

Both my wife and I write (and get paid for it).
I write non-fiction, she is a playwright and also writes novels and screenplays.

We sometimes write plays and screenplays together, I writing the male part(s) and she writing the female parts (and unimportant male parts.)
She asks me to help when a part becomes technical, as in a Police Officer, Soldier, Scientist... She also sometimes asks for help on story structure, as in how much time to spend on each scene. As a non-fiction writer, I am especially good at outlining, so as to get to the point as quickly as possible with a minimum of distraction.

However, I find I enjoy her work much more when she writes the whole thing by herself.

There is something about fiction that not only allows, but demands a continuity of author. The story itself has a narrator that is biased to the story, not verisimilitude.

So I'd say, "who cares?" If the story is good, who cares if you write men with a bias? You don't think men have been writing women with a bias for centuries? That doesn't make the story any less of a good story.

So, keep on writing those faggots into existence, sugartits.

>> No.14069765

>>14066289
begone nigger whore

>> No.14070233

>>14066116
Which movie did Jack say that in again?

>> No.14070242

>>14069765
Why is such a stubby bundle of sticks, such as yourself, taking offense at being called what you actually are, by calling me the opposite of what I am?

>> No.14070262

>>14066116
faggot detected

>> No.14070291

>>14069763
>However, I find I enjoy her work much more when she writes the whole thing by herself.
Your involvement in the work also colours your perception of it. As the saying I'm paraphrasing goes: there's nothing better than a meal you didn't cook

>> No.14070304

>>14065788
Most men are trying to prove something. If you don't want them to sound like faggot then don't make it their sexuality.

>> No.14070307

>>14069579
I'm sure you are a very good boy who eats his onions snacks when he's told! I could beat you in a fight.

>> No.14070313

>>14066392
I have never met a selfaware woman. They're always contained within basic social parameters. Incapable of anything but reinforcing social norms, completely self-assured and blind, incapable of reconsidering or taking a step back. Everything they present seems like a bullshit social game, even in trying to appear distinct or aware, it's just obfuscation, there's no substance like there is with many men. Though I'm sure they're out there. Not that I dislike women, they're usually pretty nice and cute. All outlined above is a great boon when a woman has a lovely nature too.

>> No.14070488

>>14070313
A man is a naked ape who will unload paragraphs of angst saying "Oh god, what if I get caught masturbating?" not realizing you can see him shaking his cock at you in the process of this confession. A woman is smart enough to recognize a public space and keep a reasonable amount of opinions to herself. They actually deal with people instead of having just a boogeyman-other. If women only talk about social norms with you that means they haven't seen you rise above the social realm yet.

>> No.14070583

>>14070488
misogyny

>> No.14070588

>>14070583
inevitably

>> No.14070596

>>14066289
based

butterfly [1] /lit/ onions boys [0]

>> No.14070632

>>14070233
As Good as it Gets

>> No.14070690

>>14066271
Make a story with faggots. It’s much more interesting than all characters being stereotypically hyper-masculine.

>> No.14071428
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14071428

>>14066324
>>14066381
>>14068414
A lot of my stories are about prisoners, thugs, and soldiers. What are some good biographies to look up?

>>14069064
I dont actually think they're bad, but you never know your blind spot. It's the subtle details that make the difference like mannerism, conversations, or how they respond to things. My stories are emotional and dramatic (imo) and a lot of my ideas are things a straight guy probably wouldn't come up with or want to think about. Like doing things you dont want to do but have to, and then forgetting your aspirations along the way. Or a locker room full of chiseled, sweaty Marines. Or tattooed and scarred prisoners sizing each other up or stabbing each other.

>>14069106
Hahahaha nice way to put it.

>zyzz pic unrelated

>> No.14071532

>>14070690
Said no one.

>> No.14071832

>>14069763
>You don't think men have been writing women with a bias for centuries? That doesn't make the story any less of a good story.

actually yes, yes it does, and those stories are shitty

>> No.14071851

>>14065788

Masculine
> Exhibit peculiar mannerisms and behaviors.
> Think they can read the thoughts of others.
> Minimal awareness of the feelings of themselves or others.
> They may appear as though they don't care about what's going on around them.
> Experience a pattern of pervasive distrust and suspicion of others that lasts a long time.
> See the world in terms of regulations and hierarchies.
> See themselves as devoted, reliable, efficient, and productive.
> They are opinionated and close-minded.
> Find pleasure in abusing others.

Feminine
> Experience rapidly fluctuating moods.
> Exhibitionistic as a means of securing attention and favors.
> See themselves as admirable and superior, and therefore entitled to special treatment.
> They experience long-standing feelings of inadequacy and are very sensitive of what others think about them.
> Seek constant reassurance from stronger figures.
> Vent anger indirectly by undermining others’ goals.
> Will not communicate when there is something problematic to discuss.
> Encourage others to take advantage of them.

>> No.14072346

>>14071851
>>14070488
>>14069101
>>14069064
>>14068889
>>14066392
blatant samefag

>> No.14072352

>>14070488
misandry

>> No.14073485 [DELETED] 

>>14072346
how are they samefag