/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.14060596]

ahem.......What's next?

[Anonymous No.14060637]

Starship Troopers, with Abrahamic characteristics

[Anonymous No.14060640]

>>14060596

[Anonymous No.14060648]

>>14060596
radical zoomer anime catholicism

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.14060650]

This chart is all nonsense. It has been the rule of Apollo since the close of Aeschylus’ Oresteia

The so-called Dionysian only partially during Zeus’ reign and full “Dionysian” during Saturn’s reign.
There’s been no wild fluctuations in human history. There has always been a strict Law imposed on us all.
“Harmoney” is broken when we try to break out of their Iron fist

[Anonymous No.14060658]

>>14060640
>Israel, straight ripped off the map. BYE BYE!

[Anonymous No.14060667]

>>14060596
That chart is mindbogglingly retarded

[Anonymous No.14060685]

>>14060596
Shit historiography.
Objectively:
>Rennaissance-APO
>Baroque and wars of religion-DIO
>Enlightenment-APO
>Romatism-DIO
>Modernism-APO

My opinion:
>Post WW2 leftism (1945-1970s)-DIO
>Neoliberal consensus (1970s-today)-APO
>Revolution against neoliberalism (2010-today)-DIO

[Anonymous No.14060686]

>>14060596
Post-scarcity Transhumanism

[Anonymous No.14060715]

>>14060596
POO POO CHART

[Anonymous No.14060736]

>>14060685
DIO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.14060758]

>>14060736
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vM8RLVI4cKI

[Anonymous No.14060764]

>>14060686
Post-human trans scarcity*

[Anonymous No.14060778]

>>14060596
INDIAN TECHNOFASCISTIC THEOCRACY
***SUPERPOWER 2020***

[Anonymous No.14060789]

ew gross, it gave me a (you)

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.14060801]

>>14060789
How Apollonian of you

[Anonymous No.14060810]

>>14060637
If only we could be so lucky

[Anonymous No.14060821]

>>14060596
GLOBAL THEOCRATIC MONARCHY UNDER UNIFICATION OF THE ORTHODOX AND CATHOLIC CHURCHES

[Anonymous No.14060843]

>>14060596
The Singularity

[a_poor_sinner !!eiHxl4pZe1i No.14060860]

>>14060596
this chart is meaningless

>what's next?
G A T T A C A

[Anonymous No.14061098]

>>14060801
i gotta respect butterfly. she has amazing taste in women.

[Anonymous No.14061107]

>>14060637
>republics

[Anonymous No.14061114]

>>14061098
>she

[Anonymous No.14061121]

>>14060685
>saturn worshippers are apollonian because it's still an order

yikes

[Anonymous No.14061216]

>>14060650
Rule (or lack thereof) of Dionysian when?

[Anonymous No.14061257]

Unironically BloodBorne

[Anonymous No.14061308]

>>14060596
>Middle Ages was a decline
you fell for the meme, didn't you?

[Anonymous No.14061410]

>>14061308
Sure, a great number of christian philosophers in the middle ages made important contributions to philosophy and science but quite a bit also got killed too, and then again so did the islamic world. I'm pretty sure neither were bulwarks of peace and freedom. This whole narrative of the "dark ages were actually a good thing" and "the islamic world was actually a hotbed of diverse intellectual opinions and women even had a say too!" reeks of historical revisionism. Or maybe you are the type that would you like to live in a Muslim theocracy?

[Anonymous No.14061457]

>>14061410
>history bad!!!
>peepul dint hab fredumb!!!!
>me hab iphone now, me inlighted!

[Anonymous No.14061465]

>>14060596
A metooism moralism on the right and christian pious conservatism moralism on the left will create...?

[Anonymous No.14061475]

>>14061457
Fantastic strawman bravo! I'm asking you to take a closer look at history and look at how authoritarian governments tend to turn out.

[Anonymous No.14061492]

>>14060685
baroque music (arguably the most important part of baroque) is most definitely not dionysian

[Anonymous No.14061504]

>>14061475
>authority bad!!!!
>me like iphone an mcdonals!!!!
>me no like rulez!!!!

[Anonymous No.14061510]

>>14060685
Romanticism was DIO but naturalism/realism/positivism was APO, and modernism was DIO. Interwar and post-WWII West is all APO. Also, "revolution against neoliberalism" will be DIO but it might start for good circa 2025 and it's not going to be irrelevant because the ruling class won't let it

Basically we'll be stuck in APO till civilization collapses

[Anonymous No.14061520]

>>14061510
>and it's not going to be irrelevant because the ruling class won't let it
I meant that it won't be relevant, ofcourse.

[Anonymous No.14061529]

>>14060596
>putting "reason" and "emotion" as opposites
Absolute pudding brain.

[Anonymous No.14061537]

>>14061504
Well, I really hope you get the authoritarian theocracy that you want so much and duly deserve so you and your family can be peasants with no rights, property or recourse.

[Anonymous No.14061556]

>>14061537
>peasants bad!!!!
>ebryone need 2 b rich an powerfull!!!!
>pwease don take muh iphone!!!

[Anonymous No.14061586]

>>14061556
What is your obsession with the Iphone? Who said everyone should be rich and powerful? Would you want to be a peasant? Would you find that fulfilling? It sounds like you would.

[Anonymous No.14061612]

>>14060596
Things have been full Dionysian since WW2. Boomers have never been orderly, ironically Millenials are far more orderly than them, our sense of order is just all fucked up. We've been raised to be emotionally vitriolic and chaotic but are showing cracks of wanting a more ordered system. The generations to come will build something grande.
>>14060685
Neoliberals are still Dionysian, thus why they fund ANTIFA and want open borders.
Now here's what I think the next Apollonian age will look like:
1) return to Conservative Christianity
2) reformation of education from k to graduate school
3) a cleaning out of the media and government
4) a return of women to more feminine roles
5) a return of social shame
6) a sharp decline in narcotic use, obesity, STDs, bisexualism and transgenderism
7) immigration reform
8) a shift of focus in art from being disturbing, jarring and gross to aesthetic, romantic and inspiring
9) the era of white guilt comes to an end

On the unfortunate side it's going to be a while still and it might take a war to get us there. Mean while, in the interim many more good countries will fall to total collapse a la Venezuela and South Africa, and some will be even worse.

[Anonymous No.14061634]

>>14061586
>leab my iphone alon!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous No.14061635]

>>14060596
Reddit Atheism mk.II

[Anonymous No.14061685]

>>14061634

[Anonymous No.14061698]

>>14061635
For the next 20 years maybe, after that Atheism will enter it's death spiral. It's woven in the demographics. As of now the liberal-Christian (fake Christian) sphere is evaporating, most of them are just taking off the mask and accepting their place as Atheists, but many are moving to actual Conservative churches as well. Attendance at right-winged churches is on the ascent these days as a reaction to the left-insanity we all know and love. Eventually, because of their falling rates of evangelization and ultra low birth rates the Atheists of the West will begin to lose ground and the trends will reverse towards growing religiosity. Atheists will effectively replace themselves with a combination mix primarily composed of Spic-Catholics, Muslims and legit Conservative White Protestants. Being anti-natalist, Atheism is destined to eventually collapse in on itself and demographic projections from PEW support this supposition.

[Anonymous No.14061721]

>>14061612
>Neoliberals are still Dionysian
No. The personification of neoliberal ethos are people who buy literature for "self-improvement" or "mindfulness", people who's sexual life is processed through tinder, people who want to maintain perfect appearance for instagram pictures, people who tell you that solution to climate change is to let market do it's thing and we get to eat the cake and have it too. Literal manifestation of neoliberal mindset would be Steven Pinker. They preach "reason", "development" or "getting your life together".

While on the opposite side you have depressed folks and folks who vent their anger through violence without coherent ideological positon like the yellow jackets in France.

[Anonymous No.14061756]

>>14061721
That's a tiny percentage of society. Most of society today are fat degenerates. The aura of our culture is "just do whatever you want bruh".

[Anonymous No.14061761]

>>14060596
>modernity
>dionysian
>>>>>>

[Anonymous No.14061783]

>>14061761
You being a virgin hermit doesn't dictate the greater nature of the times. Every era has it's social out casts.

[Anonymous No.14061795]

>>14061783
What is fucking HIGH MODERNISM you dipshit. The SJW movement is explicitly anti-Dionysian - think about their prohibitions.

[Anonymous No.14061805]

>>14060596
What's next is a hyper-fascist surveillance state.

[Anonymous No.14061824]

>>14061756
People who maintain TINA are still the predominant cultural force in the west, but "radicals" be it left or right are indeed getting more and more friction.

[Anonymous No.14061833]

>>14061795
>believe all women
Every woman can lie and ruin a man's life on a whim. Chaos.
>break down of the family
Break down of order.
>Complete sexual freedom (for women) with no social shame.
Note that there can't be the same for men, it's impossible that all the sexual desires of straight men can ever be met thanks to our much higher sex drives. Don't think that they aren't Dio just because they limit men, that's not the case.
>supposed egalitarianism and a breakdown of all hierarchies
Retarded and chaotic.
SJWs are the peak embodiment of Chaos, Emotion and Discord. Not surprising considering the movement is ran almost entirely off of the feelings of single, depressed women. Dionysian culture flows from single women, as men conform to their wishes to get laid. Apollonian culture stems from religion and traditional family units, where men are in charge of the family and in charge of interpreting religious texts.
Pic related is modernity.

[Anonymous No.14061854]

>>14061824
What's TINA?
The predominant cultural forces in the West are pornography, social media, McDonalds and Disney.

[Anonymous No.14061865]

>>14061833
>Apollonian culture stems from religion and traditional family units, where men are in charge of the family and in charge of interpreting religious texts.
That's bs. Religion is inherently Dionisian. Just as family is a matter of deep emotions.

[Anonymous No.14061886]

>>14061854
"There is no alternative", quote from M. Thatcher.
Socmedia promote people who are "positive thinking", "outgoing", "sunny" and perfect looking. Exactely the kind of people who would be put in McDonalds commercial.

[Anonymous No.14061895]

>>14061865
By religion I mean actual orderly religion like the highly restrained Puritans or traditional Catholics, not your stupid ritual paganism where you drink some girl's titty milk and cut yourself. Family is ran off of deep emotions as much as all human behaviour is ran off of deep emotions, but that's entirely reductionist. All of reason and evidence can be reduced to core beliefs that derive from emotion, so if you want to reduce things to that level you may as well say reason itself doesn't exist at all. Now our family order being so driven by emotion is a sign of our Dio times. It's not normal for the marriage contract to be "until mild discomfort do us part". It's "death do us part". That's the degeneration of our culture that women and their rampant disregard for order has wrought.

[Anonymous No.14061911]

>>14061886
Now does social media foster positive thinking, out going behaviour and sunny dispositions on it's users? Or does it do the exact opposite?

[Anonymous No.14061919]

>>14061885
You are just transposing the dichotomy onto good vs. bad, which renders it both wrong and meaningless. All religions are inherently Dionisian and the more restraining, the more Dionisian they are. Compare Gothic era with Reneissance. Or (Counter) Reformation with Enlightenment. Or Enlightenment with Romantism.

[Anonymous No.14061934]

>>14061911
Who knows. But it certainly promotes people to signal those attidutes as a virtue. Take it for example in contrast to post-punk and grunge at the break of the millenium, which valued depression, drugs and darkness.

[Anonymous No.14061952]

>>14061934
No we do know. People who frequently use social media are on average more depressed and more reclusive. It's been studied. Now what about grunge and punk? The current young adult generation with an ever increasing influence in society was heavily influenced by those cultures.
>>14061919
Now you're just confused.

[Anonymous No.14062004]

>>14061952
>People who frequently use social media are on average more depressed and more reclusive.
Irrelevant, it doesn't say anything about the dominant content there.
>The current young adult generation with an ever increasing influence in society was heavily influenced by those cultures.
Sorry, but no. People raised by that are already hitting 30. Media companies target Zoomers with stuff like pic related.

[Anonymous No.14062014]

>>14061952
>Now you're just confused.
Or perhaps I just pointed out your mis-understanding of the concept and you feel confused.

[Anonymous No.14062225]

>>14061612
>The Apollonian is reversion to a time where Jewish power was only partway complete because that's how shifts of culture and control work

God I hate conservatives so much

[Anonymous No.14062239]

>>14060596
>Classic, Renaissance
>Apollonian
>Middle Ages
>Dionysian
This is outrageous levels of rewriting history

[Anonymous No.14062252]

>>14060685
There is no era more Dionysian than the modern neo-liberal dystopia.

[Anonymous No.14062332]

>>14061510
Based post
>>14061612
Low IQ post

[Anonymous No.14062341]

>>14060650
Neither Apollo nor Dionysus ruled since the Hellenic age. Read the Birth of Tragedy again.

[Anonymous No.14062373]

>>14062252
I largely agree with your sentiment but there have been some. The boomer-hippy era, some times in Greece, the time of Sodom and Gemmorha, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_XwOvBZ35I

[Anonymous No.14062384]

we need to go beyond APO and DIO now

[Anonymous No.14062402]

>>14062225
You think Jews were in power in 1910s America? Negative m7. Jews themselves are lovers of Dio. Pornography, open borders, the destruction of the family, the destruction of higher education into a fuck fest where people just study any worthless subject they want as long as it rejects good moral values. They and the Boomer women are apex Dio. On the converse, younger generations of boys are going to grow to be conservative on a level that will shock their elders. That's already happening on a small scale among some millenial whites, it's just not widespread. In a couple generations it will be.

[Anonymous No.14062445]

>>14060821
Hope you return to orthodoxy brother

[Anonymous No.14062465]

>>14060596
Foundation

[Anonymous No.14062482]

>>14062465
This Foundation?

[Anonymous No.14062506]

>>14060843
zoom out

[Anonymous No.14062512]

>>14062341
>taking Birth of Tragedy serious
Humanities almost univocally gave this a pass. I'm not sure if Nietzsche himself stood by it. Why do you?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.14062642]

>>14062239
It’s a rightwingers graph as far as I can tell. Hoping for a coming age of fascism

>>14062341
Since you couldn’t tell by the quotation marks I’ll tell you now. I don’t even follow what others may make of the various ages, nor do I like the usage of “Dionysian”. The man was a cult figure, not a god. The old Golden Age was something he was trying to bring back.
Still it’s hilarious to see so many people ITT claim medieval religious period is Dionysian and the more Dionysian period of the Renaissance was somehow more Apollonian. It’s all been one long Apollonian age of empires and laws

[Anonymous No.14062684]

>>14062506
This. There are major reasons why aggregate computation power won't continue to increase exponentially, the main being our current energy crises, increasing energy demands for powerful computers and quantum entanglement putting a ceiling on how small we can build transistors.

[Anonymous No.14062706]

>>14062642
>one long Apollonian age of empires and laws
Smooth brained analysis. Even if there are laws, if they're utilized in tribal manners it's tribalism, not legalism. For there to be real order and legalism you need there to be consistent enforcement of law, which is almost never the case, and this shows that we oscillate between various levels of chaos in our system. Similarly while we love to study and talk about empires, never is it the case that humanity is uniformly united under empire, nor are there always dominant empires of the era. Discussing eras by hyper focusing on the most dominant empire of the time winds up being a gross under analysis of the era. We also of course tend to focus on the victors of history, and those tend to be Apolonian because of their high group fitness. Dionysian culture emphasizes individual fitness over group fitness and is thus bound to eventually be taken over by a higher group fitness, more orderly and disciplined society. Studying the losers of history is no fun. We don't study the loser deadbeats of history who are slaves to their baser desires, we study the highly disciplined who won and actually shaped history.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.14062748]

>>14062706
A brief analysis.
>real order and legalism you need there to be consistent enforcement of law
Hence why Apollo retired Zeus and let the age of Christ strangle humanity.
...now I must go back to my chores. Ttyl

[Anonymous No.14062758]

>>14062748
Humanity has thrived under Christian empires like never before. Look at human population and wealth in the recent centuries under Anglo Dominion. Immense prosperity everywhere, even among non Christians, but ultimately brought about because of the order Christian Anglos created.

[Anonymous No.14062802]

>>14060596

Your mum on my hard cock, but state enforced I guess, and only for procreational purposes

[Anonymous No.14062834]

>>14060596
retarded chart, but quite simply technology being available to all will turn those who don't have the intelligence to use it properly pointless, and they will all figuratively drop out of the real world into virtual reality, leaving only those who use the new technology to their benefit, who are necessarily extremely healthy and intelligent, and will create the new technologically-advanced aristocratic castes, and take the world back over.

The reason the old noble castes degenerated and the peasants took over was a misuse of technology for hedonistic pleasure causing the loss of the bellum and otium master morality. Will that happen again with the coming advanced aristocratic castes?

[Anonymous No.14062848]

>>14062834
That's not what's happening at all. There's extreme IQ regression everywhere in the world, Niggers are on their cell phones and love 'em and breeding like rabbits. Mean while the high IQ are on their phones in bed shying away from the world and aging through their youth as incels or even worse going to university and becoming anti-natalist feminsts.

[Anonymous No.14062851]

>>14061634
lmao, he will never recover

[Anonymous No.14063023]

>>14062758
Yikes.

[Anonymous No.14063032]

>>14063023
fake church of Satanists

[Anonymous No.14063154]

>>14060596
Modern age is neither Dionisyan nor Apollonian. It's Cybelian, matter without eidos.

[Anonymous No.14063195]

>>14061410
>bulwarks of peace and freedom.
Those still don't exist
They never existed
They will never exist
The medieval era was just the most truthful western society has been to itself.

[Nemo !!GgBWHLRiayD No.14063340]

>>14060596
Rule, affect, serenity; Metamodern age.

[Anonymous No.14063358]

>>14063154
OK special boy, we all know how special you are. Now run along now, adults are talking.

[Anonymous No.14063365]

>>14062848
>There's extreme IQ regression everywhere in the world, Niggers are on their cell phones and love 'em and breeding like rabbits.
...due to poor use of technology. Why do you correlate good use of technology with happiness? You sound like exactly the type of retard my theory is talking about, made stupid by technology. It doesn't matter how many of you there are when you are an obsolete feminized waste with no useful qualities and all bodily faculties atrophied who can die from a simple unplugging of the VR lifesupport.
>Mean while the high IQ are on their phones in bed shying away from the world and aging through their youth as incels
You just assumed high IQ means intelligence, and that intelligent people "stay in their bed away from the world" (probably because that is what you do, and you want to be intelligent). Being autistic is not being intelligent. I know you would like to think intelligent people act like the goofy nerds in the movies, but reality is very different. Freud once said about Nietzsche "in my youth he signified a nobility which I could not attain". Just by existing, intelligent men constantly destroy the egos of those around them. A coward cannot be intelligent.
>or even worse going to university and becoming anti-natalist feminsts
people become antinatalist feminists because they hate evolution and progress (aka technology), simply because they instinctually know what useless decadents they are, and that any progress will just punish them more for existing, so they tarnish it with the little power they have, but since they are not powerful, will get steamrolled eventually.

[Anonymous No.14063390]

>>14063365
low IQ butthurt

[Anonymous No.14063397]

Idk if I read this or made it up but I've always thought the categories "Apollonian Dionysian" and "Dionysian Apollonian" were more useful in describing modern peoples and movements. I'd say recrudescent religious and hierarchical movements manifest (or want to make themselves manifest) through a violence that is simultaneously "chaotic" and "purifying'; bloodshed and fanaticism but always for the sake of The New Order.
Conversely you have the Apollonian Dionysian character, which I think is best embodied in the neoliberal, as others herein seem to suggest at. These are the kind of "I've got a plan for that!" WASPish Elizabeth Warren types that rule through committee and relentlessly multiplying symposia. Lovers of facts, logic, and Science! and partisans for The Democratic Process, this type is a strange contradiction...because all of this system has the intention of creating a world of uprooted consumers i.e. free people. And this kind of formlessness can't be considered Apollonian

[Anonymous No.14063468]

>>14063397
Elizabeth Warren is your example of a lover of facts, reason and logic? REALLY?

[Anonymous No.14063511]

>>14063032
Name one real one.

[Anonymous No.14063526]

>>14063468
You're picking up on my idea of the Dionysian Apollonian. I'm kinda saying that that kind of attitude indicates an Apollonian veneer over a core of raw sentiment.

[Anonymous No.14063534]

>>14063511
Most churches are, even if their high level leadership is corrupt. The only churches I'll call out as fake are the ones that are obviously disregarding things we all know unambiguously are in the bible, eg; electing female pastors, putting up with this trans shit, embracing gays, etc. Christians can make mistakes interpreting the bible and squabble over petty differences, that's not a big deal, but those are clearly churches of Satan.

[Anonymous No.14063538]

>>14063526
Your idea is stupid.

[Anonymous No.14063593]

>>14061634
Gay nigger

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.14063903]

>>14062706
>loser deadbeats of history who are slaves to their baser desires
The upright and lovely humans of history who know how to live properly
>we study the highly disciplined who won and actually shaped history.
The deranged and frightened bullies of history who have made life a living hell.

>>14062758
>thrived
Live a cancer.
The Judeo-Christian-technopolis faith/age is coming to a close with either our abrupt abandonment of it or our complete extinction
>wealth
Oh look at all the monopoly money from Parker Brothers! It’s truwy vauwubu. Debt tokens will always ensure destitution and misery. Instilling value to a lawyers ticket over that of life is the stupidest religion of them all.
>Christian Anglo Dominion
Surely this is an elaborate troll. Please say it’s so.

[Anonymous No.14063949]

>>14060596
This chart is BS, Post-rennaisance is a decline into the Dionysian.

[Anonymous No.14063981]

GENoCIde?????

[Anonymous No.14063995]

>>14060596
Trumpian Space Marines

[Anonymous No.14064016]

>>14060596
I also believe that some sort of romanticism is coming back large scale. The hints of it have been in the recent self-help New Age stuff, but it should only become larger from here with possibly some sort of return of Transcendentalism and appreciation of life in the woods. People are getting tired of the same old slavish routines everyday. Especially with the disscussion about ecological catastrophe, many people - like myself - will find life in the woods to be a favorable way of life.

[Anonymous No.14064024]

>>14063023
oh wow so evil

[Anonymous No.14064036]

>>14060596
>middle ages
>dionysian
so fucking stupid
>renaissance
>apollonian
LMAO stupid fucking chart

[Anonymous No.14064068]

>>14060650
I'm in love with you, but I don't wish to be. Please say something that will shatter the illusion of your perfection in my eyes.

[Anonymous No.14064075]

>>14060596
>historical narratives
anon...

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.14064101]

>>14063903
>Live a cancer.
Like a cancer. Fucking autocorrect

>>14064036
It does fluctuate a little over time and region, but that is completely backwards, isn’t it!

>>14064068
I donno, man. Not my intention to attract anyone like that. Settle down, please.

[Anonymous No.14064205]

>>14064101
Butterfly, light of my life, fire of my loins. I cannot "settle down" - you've ignited a flame within me that I fear cannot be extinguished. It was your fault really, for being so perfect. I know you're not, but it appears that way to me. You have no idea of the torture you're putting me through.

[Anonymous No.14064209]

>>14061410
Well the Christians stole a bunch of shit like Aristotle like when they raided the library of Toledo

They birthed modern science through their theological worldview and intellectual writing tradition. Massive institutional support for natural philosophy till they put the pearls before Bacon and his royal society. Divine transcendence is leading us to divine nothingness, at least Newton cared about the occult

[Anonymous No.14064661]

>>14061457
>>14061504
>>14061556
>>14061634

[Anonymous No.14065049]

>>14062512
well, the dichotomy as we're discusing is the main philosophical object of Nietzsche's The Origin of Tragedy, so there's that.

[Anonymous No.14065427]

>>14061934
and depression memes are vogue

[Anonymous No.14065594]

>>14061698
Mestizos are all becoming evangelicals. Even in South America. I read somewhere that many people who are "right-wing" in South America who weren't too religious are actually converting to Protestantism because of the association of the Church with Communism there.

[Anonymous No.14065643]

>>14060596
Collapse and rebuilding

[Anonymous No.14066051]

>>14064209
They did well by preserving a lot of the classics, but the thing is that we progressed in spite of their worldview and not because of it. The problem with theological study is that it starts from the conclusion and tries to make findings fit with a narrative. Its a lot more nuanced than "religion bad, science good" and to be fair they couldn't have helped holding the views that they had, their perspective at the time seemed logically congruous with reality, there was no real alternative. An ideology much like the men that uphold them doesn't have to be right it just has to survive. I would agree with you in that it was a necessary steppingstone to where we find ourselves today. Could you tell me more about this royal society thing?