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/lit/ - Literature

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14012961 No.14012961 [Reply] [Original]

Who is the Salieri of literature?

>> No.14012964

Alexander Pope

>> No.14012968

>>14012964
Isn't he considered one of the greats nowadays though?

>> No.14013030

>>14012961
Bloom

>> No.14013061

>>14012961
Mishima. Dazai is Mozart.

>> No.14013331

>>14012968
He was great, but spiteful and bitter

>> No.14013339

Fitzgerald to Hemingway as Mozart

>> No.14013353
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14013353

>>14012961
Bernard Gui

>> No.14013360

>>14012961
Fitzgerald.

>> No.14013507

>>14012961

Ben Jonson

>> No.14013520

Christopher Marlowe, no?

>> No.14013521

>>14013061
haha i switched them haha

>> No.14013522

>>14012961
Me

>> No.14013554

>>14013520

No.

>> No.14013561

>>14013554
Bard-tard or just contrarian?

>> No.14013575

>>14012961
Tolkien is Salieri, Lewis is Mozart

>> No.14013586
File: 1.58 MB, 360x270, A7D8B24C-3C8C-4A91-81B0-D122FE4983C0.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14013586

>>14013575

>> No.14013707

>>14012961
Cecil Day Lewis

>> No.14013710

>>14013575
Mr tumnus face ass

>> No.14013713

>>14013586
Funny gif butters, where'd you get it?

>> No.14013747

>>14013360
>>14013339
Hemingway is Salieri. Fitzgerald is Mozart.
>>14013575
Clearly the other way around applies.

>> No.14014663

>>14013747
How though, Fitzgerald was much more successful during his time than Hemingway and after Hemingway kind of went global in popularity while Fitzgerald is still mostly a US thing

>> No.14014695

Keats = Mozart
Byron = Salieri

>> No.14014700

>>14012961
Verlaine

>> No.14014712

>>14013331
Except real life salieri was unironically based and a true bro.
>Many great musicians of the following generation passed through his hands, and that in itself is a tribute to the respect his colleagues had for him. Beethoven and Schubert were proud to call themselves pupils of Salieri. Carl Czerny studied with him. So did the important pianist-composers Ignaz Moscheles and Johann Nepomuk Hummel. The young Liszt had some lessons with Salieri. It was to Salieri that Constanze, Mozart's widow, entrusted her youngest son. Mozart's pupil Franz Xavier Sussman, who completed the Mozart Requiem, was a Salieri pupil. So was Giacomo Meyerbeer, who went on to become the most successful opera composer of his time. So was the contrapuntist Simon Sechter. So was the composer and conductor Karl Reissiger.
Literaly just from typing "salieri being a bro" on google

>> No.14014715

Charles Kinbote

>> No.14014718

>>14014663
Mozart is way better than Salieri, it's not a popularity thing. Similarly, Fitzgerald runs circles around Hemingway. Also, when was the last time a Hemingway work got adapted into a major motion picture? If that's not a telling of relevance I don't know what it is.

>> No.14014732

>>14014718
>Also, when was the last time a Hemingway work got adapted into a major motion picture? If that's not a telling of relevance I don't know what it is.
Glad to learn Dick and King are the greatest authors to ever live. /lit/ "muh genre fiction" btfo

>> No.14014740

>>14013507

this

>> No.14014746

>>14014732
You're the one who brought popularity as a metric of quality in the first place.

>> No.14014752

>>14014746
>you
nice try moshe

>> No.14014756

Dostoevsky is Mozart, Tolstoy is Salieri.

>> No.14014757

>>14014712
This, dont fall for the Pushkin/Forman meme.

>> No.14014780

>>14014712
If he taught so many great musicians, why isn't his own music more widely known?

>> No.14014823

>>14014780
>if X is good, why isn't it popular
Nice redditing mate.
Also, Salieri is known and respected amongst people who actually know stuff about the classical period beyond haydn and mozart.

>> No.14014844

>>14014756
Ewww

>> No.14014874

>>14014780
>if there have been hundreds ofgood scientists in history, why have most people only heard of Newton and Einstein

>> No.14014985

Mozart = Proust
Salieri = Joyce

>> No.14014995

Mozart = Lao Tzu
Salieri = Confucius

>> No.14015064

>>14013331
Except that's not true at all.
I'm assuming you got this from Amadeus, which portrays Salieri as far from Salieri actually was.

>> No.14015333

>>14013521
I was referring to Mishima's relationship to Dazai, not making a subjective parallel between their qualities. Mishima had much the same feelings towards Dazai as Salieri had towards Mozart in the movie.

>> No.14015364

Mozart: Plato
Salieri: Aristotle

>> No.14015381

>>14013575
yikes

>> No.14015395

mozart = dazai
salieri = mishima

>> No.14016113

>>14014756
turgenev is salieri

>> No.14016739

Machiaveli? Idk

>> No.14016793

Mozart= Henry David Thoreau
Salieri = Emerson

>> No.14016916
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14016916

Haydn=Cervantes

>> No.14016922

>>14014756
This but Shakespeare is Mozart.

>> No.14016980
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14016980

>>14014985

>> No.14017823

>>14012961
dave eggers

>> No.14017867

Mozart = Jack Kerouac
Salieri = Tom Wolfe

>> No.14017956

Mozart= Borges
Salieri= Cortazar

>> No.14018089

Cecco d'Ascoli.

Steiner even has a fine essay on literary envy whose subject is Cecco d'Ascoli.

He was the Salieri to Dante's Mozart.

P.S.: Yes, I do know that the fictional portrait of Salieri is a historical lie.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cecco_d%27Ascoli

>Having published a commentary on the Sphere of John de Sacrobosco, in which he propounded audacious theories concerning the employment and agency of demons, he got into difficulties with the clerical party, and was condemned in 1324 to certain fasts and prayers, and to the payment of a fine of seventy crowns. To elude this sentence he went to Florence, where he was attached to the household of Carlo di Calabria. His freethinking and plain speaking had made him many enemies; he had attacked the Commedia of Dante, and the Canzone d'amore of Guido Cavalcanti. But according to Ernst Cassirer's The Individual and the Cosmos in Renaissance Philosophy, he died at the stake for his attempt to determine the nativity of Christ by reading his horoscope (page 107). The physician Dino del Garbo was indefatigable in pursuit of him; and the old accusation of impiety being renewed, Cecco was again tried and sentenced for relapse into heresy. He was burned at Florence the day after the sentence, in his seventieth year. He was the first university scholar to be burned by the Inquisition.

>> No.14018139

>>14017956
Nah. Casares is Salieri in this one. Not for personal rivalry, but for being historically overshadowed.

>> No.14018151

>>14018139
Accurate and sadeningpilled. Casares had many of the qualities of Borges and some Borges didn't have, it's sad he's so underrated. Borges himself would probably be sad if he was still alive.

>> No.14018155

>>14012961
Literally me

>> No.14018162

>>14014780
It's extraordinarily difficult to write something that lasts 200 years. Mozart wrote 22 operas, but only 4 are really in the repertoire. Salieri doesn't have anything on the level of Figaro or the Magic Flute

>> No.14018170

>>14012961
Turgenev is Salieri and Tolstoy is Mozart

>> No.14018420

>>14018162
The repertoire is primarily to get the masses interested, they are not so popular for the music world and many are quite sick of them. This is why most every classical music recital is one very well known piece and a couple lesser known, they use the well known piece to draw the average person, the rest is too appease the folks that are actually into music and hopefully get people interested in things outside the standard repertoire.

Also, the standard repertoire is different for different instruments/ensembles, Mozart does not exist in most of them, no idea if Salieri is any of them though.

>> No.14018442

>>14016916
What masterpiece did haydn write?

>> No.14018456

>>14018442
He really had more to do with form and structure than anything, he was a big part of taking chamber music to the serious level and greatly elevated the string quartet, he was a big part of forming what we now consider to be sonata form and made major contributions to the full symphony. He is fairly important to what we consider today as classical music. While he has many works that people will recognize immediately, most will not know who composed it or what the piece is.

>> No.14018470

>>14012961
Nabokov. He was so jealous of the success and acclaim that Pasternak got that he accused him of being a KGB plant, even though Dr. Zhivago literally had to be smuggled out of the USSR by the CIA in order to be published. Tbf though, Salieri was way more magnanimous than Nabokov.

>> No.14018528

>>14018442
London Symphonies, Paris Symphonies, most of his string quartets

>> No.14018627

Bret Easton Ellis. He always whines and complains about how underappreciated his work is compared to David Foster Wallace, who at the time of his life was a contemporary.

>> No.14018635

>>14013522
I'm your Mozart

>> No.14018644

>>14013707
The only one ITT that actually fits.

>> No.14018649

>>14012961
OP is the Salieri of literature for being a massive pleb that believes whatever lies Hollywood wants to feed him. He is incapable of doing any independent research, and thus succeeds in being utterly mediocre.

>> No.14018664

>>14018649
>it's a secret among the elite that a fictional movie is fictional

>> No.14018679

>>14014780
He has fallen into relative obscurity due to being a contemporary with three of the greatest geniuses of musical history, but he is actually one of the better known "lesser" composers of that time, certainly more than a Kozeluch or von Dittersdorf.

>> No.14018698

>>14018442
Hob. IV/5
Piano trios

>> No.14018709

>>14013353
tsundere for William of baskerville?

>> No.14018712

>>14017956
marquez = mozart
borges = salieri

>> No.14019322

Schopenhauer

>> No.14019390

>>14013575
>Tolkien is Salieri

yes

>Lewis is Mozart

no

>> No.14019401

where were you when 3 genius were at the same room, near each other?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NwPASDkizg

>> No.14019405

Petrarch: Salieri

Dante: Mozart

>> No.14019409

>>14018089
>Steiner even has a fine essay on literary envy whose subject is Cecco d'Ascoli.

link?

>> No.14019423

>>14018627
>David Foster Wallace,

he´s garbage too lol

>> No.14019501

>>14013339
Hemingway as Mozart is so hilariously absurd. Mozart deserves his fame. Hemingway is a boring hack who just happened to write during interesting times.

>> No.14019852

>>14018442
op.76

>> No.14019903

>>14018679

>Karl Ditters von Dittersdorf

Unironically best name ever, Hoffmeister at a close second.

>> No.14019929

Mozart: Wittgenstein
Salieri: Russell