Egoism

[Anonymous No.14011747]

How do you possibly argue against egoism as the one true ethical system? There's so such thing as a selfless act anyway, so why not?

[Anonymous No.14011754]

If you think everyone is selfish regardless, what do you need a system that prescribes selfishness for?

[Anonymous No.14011784]

>>14011754
Because people go astray of the path of "selfishness" because of a socially imposed altruistic ethic. Funny enough, it's kinda similar to Rousseau's argument in the social contract and the discourse on inequality: people are born free and good, then it comes the civil state that forces people away from that, and we should aim to restore that virtue.

I'm not an ethical-egoist myself, but as far as i can see, that's the logic they have behind their arguments.

[Anonymous No.14011795]

>>14011784
I just noticed my redundancy after posting, i must be retarded.

[Anonymous No.14011822]

>>14011747
Once you see the logic, you cannot go back. Everything comes back to the self.

[Anonymous No.14011847]

>>14011822
Dumb. Your entire perception of the world comes from the self, because you are the self. Obviously. I don't know why you're implying this means that everything you do is for the self.
>>14011747
Read more Philosophy. Egoism is babbys first Philosophy. But, people who buy into this nonsense are steadfast in preaching egoism. I point to a soldier who jumps on a grenade to save his comrades; you say he did it to serve his ego (despite the fact that in doing so he is quite literally destroying his self.)

[Anonymous No.14011853]

>>14011747
the self isn't a homogenous unitary agent.

[Anonymous No.14011872]

>>14011784
Well it seems to prescribe more than just selfishness then since people would follow the supposedly altruistic ethic from selfish motivations even if they weren't aware of it.

It would appear that in addition to selfishness the system prescribes self-consciousness of one's own selfishness for everyone. However, if one was actually selfish wouldn't he want only himself to be self-conscious in this way because it would give him a unique advantage over everyone else. This kind of egoism as an ethical system therefore seems to be in contradiction with itself.

[Anonymous No.14011874]

>>14011847
What a horrible argument. Sacrifice is easily explained biologically. Why is it that people don’t sacrifice themselves for objects that don’t share their genes, or provide them with some sort of benefit? Gee, it’s almost as if everything we do is predicated on some sort of selfish desire to propagate the species.

[Anonymous No.14011898]

>>14011874
>What a horrible argument
That people behave unselfishly?
>Sacrifice is easily explained biologically
Literally antithetically to survival instincts
>Why is it that people don’t sacrifice themselves for objects that don’t share their genes
Why are you saying this when I brought up an example of a soldier saving his comrades (non linked genetically) by suicide?
>or provide them with some sort of benefit
What benefit is there to be had from dying? When you die, you don't experience benefit.
>Gee, it’s almost as if everything we do is predicated on some sort of selfish desire to propagate the species.
Yes, the soldier killed himself because uh...propagation!

Was your response auto-generated? Had nothing to do with what I said.

[Anonymous No.14011901]

>>14011898
>Why are you saying this when I brought up an example of a soldier saving his comrades (non linked genetically) by suicide?
Absolute brainlet. You’re a waste of my time.

[Anonymous No.14011914]

>>14011872
>However, if one was actually selfish wouldn't he want only himself to be self-conscious in this way because it would give him a unique advantage over everyone else. This kind of egoism as an ethical system therefore seems to be in contradiction with itself.

I can see your point, but i disagree. Again, i'm not an ethical-egoist myself, but as far as i have read, thinkers that advocate for this philosophy usually believe, or claim to believe, that an ethical-egoist society would actually work better; this is, by having more freedom, more efficient markets, and so on. At the end of the day, they are fulfilling their duty as egoists by trying to ensure a society where they would live more comfortably; if that happens to help other people, so be it.

[Anonymous No.14011916]

>>14011901
I brought up an unselfish example and the only thing you brought up was propagation, despite it having nothing to do with the example I brought up. No clue what you're trying to do here.

[Anonymous No.14011920]

>>14011901
>>14011874
>Everything is selfish
>No, people do unselfish things. Here's an example.
>The solder jumped on the grenade to propagate his genes
State of lit

[Anonymous No.14011933]

>>14011916
If there are no selfish reasons to do something, then why do it? What reason is there? There are infinite “selfless” acts that are never deemed worthy of doing, yet no one ever does these acts. People are praised when they are virtuous, and virtue is doing what benefits yourself the most.

[Anonymous No.14011942]

>>14011920
His genes exist in other humans you imbecile.

[Anonymous No.14011958]

>>14011942
And? The suicide is to save people not genetically linked to him. That other poster brought up sacrifice in regards to saving your offspring.

[Anonymous No.14011967]

>>14011958
1. All humans are genetically linked
2. By saving your comrades, you increase the chances of your side winning, which specifically helps propagate your family’s genes.

It’s like I’m talking to Down syndrome cavemen or something, shit

[Anonymous No.14011975]

>>14011933
>If there are no selfish reasons to do something, then why do it?
Often times the obligation to do good things overpowers the urge not to. Say that a person is drowning in the ocean and I didn't particularly want to save him because of how uncomfortable the cold water and physical exertion required would be. I would still do it, because I feel compelled to do good, despite not necessarily wanting to (I could drown.)

[Anonymous No.14011984]

>>14011967
>1. All humans are genetically linked
What? The comrades he saved are competition to his mates. Biologically he would want other males dead so he could increase chances of mating. This has to be a troll.
>2. By saving your comrades, you increase the chances of your side winning, which specifically helps propagate your family’s genes.
What if the soldier didn't have offspring? This happens all the time. Like that incel kid who sacrificed himself to take out a shooter in Pakistan.

[Anonymous No.14011997]

>>14011914
So altruism is fake and gay because everyone is selfish but what they really selfishly want is to be altruistic.

[Anonymous No.14012002]

>>14011975
And why do you feel obligated/compelled to save him? Why is that good?

[Anonymous No.14012023]

>>14012002
>And why do you feel obligated/compelled to save him
In this case it doesn't particularly matter. What matters is if I want to do what I feel I am obligated to do. If you're 8, and your mom commands you to brush your teeth, you genuinely don't want to do it, yet feel obligated to do so and do so anyway. The only thing that matters here is doing the unselfish act due to unselfish reasons; thus proving that unselfish acts are possible; thus proving that not everything is done due to the ego.

[Anonymous No.14012028]

>>14011984
>What?
Hes a retard dont reply to him

[Anonymous No.14012037]

>>14012023
You brush your fucking teeth because you’ll get in trouble otherwise. And if you don’t save the guy, people will think you have no concern for others, and you’ll have a bad reputation. You’re doing all these things for yourself! It’s so obvious

[Anonymous No.14012040]

>>14011853
?

[Anonymous No.14012064]

The more important lesson of this thread is why arguing is a waste of time. If someone is committed to believing something, then there are no facts or logic that will dissuade him. The only thing that can work is undermining his sense-of-the-world that drives him to believe whatever stupid bullshit, but that's incredibly time-consuming.

[Anonymous No.14012065]

>>14012037
The root of compulsion for doing good things is unknowable.

[Anonymous No.14012070]

>>14012064
egoism is the most cultish philosophy desu

[Anonymous No.14012087]

>>14012065
hahaha

What’s so illogical about the idea that everything we do is based on self-interest? Do you not realize that the actions commonly considered good or moral or righteous are actions that benefit you in some way? It is good to help others, because this benefits you greatly. All morals are grounded in egoism. Everyone acts on self-interest, but the good man knows how to do it best. A “selfish” person is just one who neglects the importance of human cooperation and socialization in pursuing his own good. People who act immoral without hesitation are mentally handicapped as they don’t understand the negative consequences of their behavior.

[Anonymous No.14012107]

>>14012087
>What’s so illogical about the idea that everything we do is based on self-interest
To unironically believe in egoism is to believe that you know the root of everything every human has done. I'm trying to tell you that it's uncertain if every action is due to the ego when unselfish actions are plausible.
>All morals are grounded in egoism
Again, this presupposes far too much to have a productive conversation. I'm gonna go with >>14012064 on this one.