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14001696 No.14001696 [Reply] [Original]

We are just biological beings like it or not

>> No.14001700

>>14001696
Explain why we have substantially higher intelligence that has enabled us to reach the absolute top of the pecking order.

>> No.14001718

>>14001700
Brains evolve just like any other organ

>> No.14001729

>>14001718
Why don't other creatures brains evolve anywhere near as rapidly or colossally

>> No.14001809

That's a bunch of semantic bullshit like it or not

>> No.14001813

>>14001729
How did insects evolve wings so rapidly and colossally in the Devonian?

>> No.14001959

>>14001696
Beief in any kind of soul is a result of self-clinging, a cope against seeing the obvious..

>> No.14001964

>>14001959
Why is clinging bad if it is to something good?

>> No.14001987
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14001987

>>14001696
Our bodies our, our awareness isn't but is something separate from the body. Krishnamurti had a few good takes but is mostly wrong.
>>14001718
that doesn't satisfactorily solve the hard problem of consciousness
>>14001959
telling yourself that your consciousness is just the emergent property of a bunch of atoms is the real cope

>> No.14002004

>>14001718
Your have clearly not.

>> No.14002006

>>14001696
no we are part of the cosmic illusion

>> No.14002016

>>14001987
>Krishnamurti had a few good takes but is mostly wrong.
For all that I like about him, this is patently obvious.I still think about his intellect/intelligence division (even if it's a bit basic or naive)

>> No.14002038

No one landed one the moon like it or not. He said something like that in his last days, it's on a YouTube video.

He seemed to enjoy disagreeing with people. Maybe he used it for apophatic understanding. So negate "we are just biological beings like it or not" and we see the higher truth.

Or maybe he was an atheist and was sick of what he thought was bull.

>> No.14002336

>>14001987
>our awareness isn't but is something separate from the body
It's always tied to the body though, about 100% of the time.
>telling yourself that your consciousness is just the emergent property of a bunch of atoms is the real cope
cope with what? lol most people want to live forever

>> No.14002344

>>14001729
we happened to be first and occupy that particular niche in nature. There is no room on earth for two species this intelligent

>> No.14002835

>>14001964
It's not. Trying to do the right thing is clinging too.

>> No.14002989

>>14002004
Ad Hominem

>> No.14003741

>>14002989
It's a statement about how the intelligence the anon in question demonstrates by being able to grasp such concepts clearly cannot be the result of brute mechanical action.

>> No.14005199

Thought is matter. People are no different from objects (a book, a tree) and it doesn't matter if one acts alive. There is nothing especial at all about consciousness, we just happen to believe there is. We are completely unavoidable in all aspects.
I remember spontaneously spouting out something like this to someone in a mildly relevant conversation and being blown away by myself for just adopting such a belief unconsciously. It seems so apparent to me now, it might not be an intelligent stance at all I've taken but it's certainly amusing and encompassing.

>>14001987
Either way consciousness is just as stupid as emerging from matter. What makes it special? In your own experience of life can you say anything interesting or special in that fashion is going on?

>> No.14005220

>>14001729
Because we killed or assimilated them.

>> No.14005309

>>14001696
We can’t possibly know that for sure, and whether or not there is such a thing as spirit, our capacity to reason and create art in the way that we do sets us apart from other known life
t.evolutionary biologist

>> No.14005420

>>14005199
>You see, it depends on what kind of attitude you want to take to the world. If you want to put the world down you say, Oh well, fundamentally it’s only just a lot of geology. It’s a stupidity, and it so happens that a kind of a freak comes up in it which we call consciousness. And that’s an attitude that you take when you want to prove to people that you’re a tough guy, that you’re realistic, that you face facts, and that you don’t indulge in wishful thinking. It’s just a matter of role-playing. And you must be aware of these things; they are fashions in the intellectual world. On the other hand, if you feel warm-hearted towards the universe you put it up instead of putting it down, and you say about rocks, they’re really conscious, but a very primitive form of consciousness. Because, after all, when I take even this crystal here, which is glass, and go [knocks knuckles against it]… well, it makes a noise. And that response, that resonance, is an extremely primitive form of consciousness. Our consciousness is much more subtle than that, but when you hit a bell and it rings, you touch a crystal and it responds, inside itself—it has a very simple reaction. It goes jangle inside, whereas we go jangle with all sorts of colors and lights and intelligence, ideas and thoughts—it’s more complicated. Both are equally conscious, but conscious in different degrees. That’s a perfectly acceptable idea, it’s just the opposite of the idea—see, all I’m saying is that minerals are a rudimentary form of consciousness, whereas the other people are saying that consciousness is a complicated form of minerals. See? What they want to do is to say everything is kind of bleagh! Whereas what I want to say is hooray, you know? Life is a good show!

>> No.14005758

>>14005309
whats your side of the facultys take on machine intelligence being able to replicate human art?

>> No.14005775

>>14005420
You can’t post such a charming excerpt like this without giving the source.

>> No.14005844

I'll go with the Caodong zensters and say it's a mystery.

>> No.14005882

>>14005775
Alan Watts

>> No.14005915

>>14005882
Damn, based.

>> No.14005920

>>14005758
Your brain simply doesn't work like a computer. It's a metaphor no better than humours or clay and spirit. Your brain doesn't operate by algorithms and it doesn't store data like a machine.

>> No.14005936

>>14005920
Tear me a new one.

If the mind "is a result of" the brain, and if the brain can be modeled by a computer system (e.g. modeling neurons), then wouldn't that model be conscious?

>> No.14005939

>>14005936
No, because consciousness is substrate-dependent

>> No.14005993

>>14005939
Go on, please elaborate. What do real, physical neurons matter over simulated neurons?

>> No.14006001

>>14005993
Because they are real and physical. I'm not ruling it out of hand, but it seems unlikely. Why should the simulation of the process be the process itself?

>> No.14006053

>>14006001
Fair enough. Perhaps I'd argue "why shouldn't" the simulation of the process (if it's technically good enough) be the process itself? But then duh, it is not the process, it is but a simulation. But so what! It is close enough for consciousness to emerge. I don't know, I'll stop reading Greg Egan. Goodnight.

>> No.14006286

>>14005420
Ahh Mr. Watts.
He's absolutely cure-your-doom tier.

>> No.14006409

>>14001959
Explain why it's obvious a soul doesn't exist

>> No.14006422

>>14002344
explain chinese then

>> No.14007094

>>14003741
It absolutely can.
The only reason our brains worm the way they do is the physical difference in size of the key parts which allow it to function the way it does compared to less intelligent beings

>> No.14007146

>>14001696
Any and all statements of 'we/man is JUST [x]' are not to be taken seriously.
>nnoooo, this very particular form of intuition is the only legitimate one, all the rest is false-consciousness/brainwashing/illusion

>> No.14007203

>>14001696
>what is supraindividual life

>> No.14007272

>>14001959
Quite the opposite dipshit. Believe in a soul is a belief in permadeath, the implication being that you have a conscious experience of reality that terminated upon death necessitates some emergent property of our brains that is our “identity”, in reality consciousness literally does not exist. Even qualia doesn’t exist. We literally are not conscious we just think we are. Likewise we literally can’t die because we aren’t really alive beyond our metabolic respiration.

>> No.14007339

>>14007272
w-what kind of atheism is this?

>> No.14007444

stop posting u.g. statements without context

>> No.14007965

Is consciousness a base property of matter/energy? Not sapience, obviously, since a bookshelf or a lamp lacks the structures that appear necessary for encoding and recalling memory for example that we observe in the brain, but is there something it is like to "be" the aninimate that our complex consciousness arises from?

>> No.14007990

>>14005920
Wrong on all counts.

>> No.14007997

>>14007339
Based and redpilled Catholicism.

>> No.14008349
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14008349

He just likes to bark like a dog

>> No.14008400

Holy shit. Atheists and materialists are such midwits that you are a moron for even contending with them. I believe you need to have a certain personality to get stuck on materialism and never evolve past it. It’s like they are unable to comprehend anything complex. Perhaps they need to try psychedelics? Or they are eternally doomed, who knows. Sage.

>> No.14009612

>>14007272
>We literally are not conscious we just think we are. Likewise we literally can’t die because we aren’t really alive beyond our metabolic respiration.
based retard

>> No.14009634

>>14007272
>we think we are
>think
>not consciouss
>think
For your sake I hope you are baiting.

>> No.14010365

>>14007965

the entire universe has "consciousness" if you're willing to define it in more abstract terms. even clearly non sentient things like rock formations self organize over time