Qur'an reading group

[Anonymous No.13984941]

Last week was pages 1-25 (Surah 2 and Surah 2:1-192) of the scholarly Arberry English rendering of the Qur'an, available here


https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.224756/page/n13

Some interesting notes: the Merciful, the Compassionate is a translation of two Arabic words for the Merciful: the first is most merciful in the quantative sense, the second in the qualitative sense. Theologically the first has to do with the Mercy sustaining the Creation, the second with the pardoning of sins.

Lord of All Being: there is no copulative in Arabic, the word translated as being here comes from what is before you. It can also be translated as worlds (in Heidegger's sense), or lands or nations as well.

In shorter Surahs, like the first, the Arabic rhymes

Anything you find obscure or confusing, let me know and I will explain it, Inshallah

This week we will finish Surah 2, Inshallah

Here is the group discord
https://discord.gg/WEjnKr2

[Anonymous No.13985101]

Bump

[Anonymous No.13985114]

>>13984941
Bump

[Anonymous No.13985145]

>>13984941
"In sha Allah" is written in three words. It isnt a single word. To write it like you did, all parts connected, gives it an entirely different and thus wrong meaning.

"In sha Allah" this is the correct way

[Anonymous No.13985249]

>>13985145
There is no standardized transliteration, it's generally written according to how the writer says it

[Anonymous No.13985267]

How many people are around for the thing? Is there a dominant sect of Islam present in the group? Do you use any sort of outside commentary/exegesis?

[Anonymous No.13985272]

>>13985267
Sunni is dominant, we have about a dozen active people, yes outside sources are fine

[Anonymous No.13985278]

Shouldn't all Muslims say pedophilia is morally acceptable?

[Anonymous No.13985281]

notice how every modern ideology use women for propaganda

[Anonymous No.13985290]

>>13985278
Child marriage is

>>13985281
She was a woman who was denigrated by Charlie Hedbo

[Anonymous No.13985296]

>>13985290
Pic related

[Anonymous No.13985298]

>>13985290
I'm not talking about marriage. I'm saying that Muslims should accept the having of sex with prepubescent children as being morally acceptable since that is what Muhammad did.

[Anonymous No.13985308]

>>13985298
Prepubescent isn't permitted. Pre menstrual is but a woman can't be married until the onset of puberty (although she can be betrothed)

[Anonymous No.13985314]

>>13985298
You're acting as if Muhammad was consistent with the laws he set up and he didn't make exceptions for himself

[Anonymous No.13985318]

>>13985308
There is no difference between prepubescent and pre-menstrual. Where in the Koran or Hadith does it say that Muhammad sinned when he had sex with a prepubescent? If the sources don't say anything against it there's no reason for a Muslim to be against it sinned Muhammad engaged in it.

[Anonymous No.13985329]

>>13985296
What's the context here?

[Anonymous No.13985359]

>>13984941
When will you get to part where Muhamad raped a 9 year old girl?

[Anonymous No.13985366]

>>13985318
>There is no difference between prepubescent and pre-menstrual

See

>Puberty generally starts earlier for girls, some time between 8 and 13 years of age. For most girls, the first evidence of puberty is breast development, but it can be the growth of pubic hair. As her breasts start to grow, a girl will initially have small, firm, tender lumps (called buds) under one or both nipples; the breast tissue will get larger and become less firm in texture over the next year or two. Dark, coarse, curly hair will appear on her labia (the folds of skin surrounding the vagina), and later, similar hair will begin growing under her arms.

>The first signs of puberty are followed 1 or 2 years later by a noticeable growth spurt. Her body will begin to build up fat, particularly in the breasts and around her hips and thighs, as she takes on the contours of a woman. Her arms, legs, hands, and feet will also get bigger.

>The culminating event will be the arrival of menarche, her first period (menstruation). Depending on the age at which they begin their pubertal development, girls may get their first period between the ages of 9 and 16.

https://kidshealth.org/en/parents/understanding-puberty.html

>>13985329
They are making fun of her for wearing the hijab

[Anonymous No.13985395]

>>13985366
Muhammad had sexual contact with the girl while she was still playing with dolls, and that means that did not hit puberty since playing with dolls was forbidden to girls after their first period. You can talk about about how some girls hit puberty early all you want, the fact remains that Muhammad would rub his cock between her thighs because she was too young to penetrate. This is all recorded by Muslim sources.

[Anonymous No.13985396]

>>13985298
>>13985308
>>13985314
>Muhamad didndu nothin wrong
>he was only believed to be possessed by the devil when was a kid by his own parents
>he was only beaten the shit out of a demon he thought was an angel because he didn't know how to read
>he only wanted to kill himself for being beaten the shit out of a demon angel but the demon angel made fun of him for being too much of a coward to do it
>he only preached peace between pagans, jews and christians up to when he got an army and then preached death to everyone
>he only had such a sexual addiction that his own wives made him promise not to fuck his sex slaves every night, a promise he broke
>he only married a 6 year old girl whose hair fell out and then fucked her 3 year later when her hair grew back
>he only fucked his own cousin, who was the wife of his adopted son, who used to be his slave
>he only banned adoption in the muslim world after his own followers laughed at him for fucking his son's wife
>he only made up bullshit rules like a man can have 4 wives while he had 11
>he only preached that a false prophet shouldhave his heart cut off if a false prohet lies, only to die from a ruptured aorta himself
>he only ate a lamb poisoned by an old jewish woman, suffered for 3 years, then died like a bitch
Yeah. No.
Fuck muhamad and fuck you backwater muslim faggots and your garbage blasphemy.

[Anonymous No.13985405]

>>13985366
Don't bother arguing semantics with muslims my man.
These retards believed muhamad when he told them that the sun goes down in a mud pit somewhere in the west, then rises again from the same pit somehow in the east.
He also told them that falling stars are missiles that his moon demon shoots at his enemies for trying to get into (((heaven)))

[Anonymous No.13985430]

>>13985405
I've been talking to Muslims a lot lately and there is legitimately something wrong with the way they think. They don't have the capabilities they should as a human being.

[Anonymous No.13985439]

>>13985329
>>13985366
I think more accurately, they are making fun of a French girl for virtue signaling by wearing a garment that she adopted simply to be a subversive communist.
Likewise, being neoliberals, they are offended at the sight of any attempt to bring down their usurious overlords or any outward show of traditional religious piety.
That said, I don't mind Islam as a religion per se as it dovetails with my religion in many ways. I find the presence of this thread on 4chan as an attempt at trolling or stirring up hatred between the rival goyim religions. And it should probably be removed from the site.

[Anonymous No.13985462]

>>13985430
That's what they get when you buy into an old pedophile being a prophet of God even though his whole life story preserved by his followers proves him otherwise BY HIS OWN STANDARDS.
It's pretty freaky.

[Anonymous No.13985515]

>>13985395
>, and that means that did not hit puberty since playing with dolls was forbidden to girls after their first period
I just posted something showing the onset of puberty is before your fist period, often by years

>>13985396
Don't Christians think Jacob, alyhe salam, wrestled with an angel? So why is Muhamman, salahu alayhi wasallam, being squeezed (not injured) by one to get him to heed so weird? He banned infanticide, gambling, drinking, prostitution, usury...do these seem demonically inspired?

The four wives limit waas revealed after he had eleven wives most of whom were widows

Adoption was revealed as forbidden for one thing because he couldn't have son's as they would establish a dynasty in his name

Regarding Christians, he fought the agression of the Byzantines. Here is how it went down for Christians who didn't fight him
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashtiname_of_Muhammad

>>13985439
She's a Muslim and in fact they are afar left publication

>>13985462
No more than Moses, alayhi salaam, who approves of child marriage

[Anonymous No.13985524]

>>13985515
>I just posted something showing the onset of puberty is before your fist period, often by years
Good, so the Muslim position is that it's okay to diddle girls slightly before their first period. Got it. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Anonymous No.13985548]

>>13984941
most garbage book i ever laid my eyes upon

the perfect book my ass no wonder mudslims behave the way they do

[Anonymous No.13985556]

>>13985524
If puberty has onset and you are married.

[Anonymous No.13985575]

>>13985556
In the years that Muhammad was having sexual contact with Aisha, before her first period, do you think there was a point where she was prepubescent?

[Anonymous No.13985592]

>>13985575
No, she was betrothed to him prepubescent (6) but the wedding and cohabitation only took place when puberty started (9)

[Anonymous No.13985625]

>>13985592
How did they know when puberty started if you don't consider the first menstruation to be the start?

Ultimately you're just redefining what it means to be a pedophile so this is kind of dumb. What you still admit to in regards to sex, which is that it's okay to have sexual contact with girls before their first period, is absolutely abhorrent.

[Anonymous No.13985649]

>>13985625
>>13985366

The onset of puberty is determined either by the budding of breasts or growth of pubic hair

[Anonymous No.13985659]

>>13985649
Are you going to even try disputing the fact that in Islam it's acceptable to have sex with girls before they have their first menstruation? Do I have it right?

[Anonymous No.13985679]

>>13985659
Provided it is within marriage you are right, yes. Why should I have to dispute this when Muhammad, salahu alayhi wasallaam, had playful sexual contact with Aisha, may Allah be pleased with her, before her first period?

[Anonymous No.13985732]

>>13985679
So I'm right in saying that Islam is a religion of pedophiles. Your only defense is to say "well ackshually there's a brief period of time before menstruation where puberty starts and so it's technically not prepubescent sex taking place during this brief window, and we assume that this is when Muhammad had sex with Aisha."

I'm not impressed by it. You're a disgusting people.

[Anonymous No.13985743]

Why are people so fixated on the Aisha thing? This has to be the number one criticism of Islam in current times, it’s the one thing people can never get over and it leads to immediate dismissal of Islam. Nobody gave a shit about his marriage to Aisha until the late 19th century and it didn’t become subject to widespread criticism until the 20th century. For 1300 years nobody really cared because it wasn’t anything out of the ordinary given how many wives he had to begin with and how marriages worked back then. Aisha’s entire persona is relegated to being “the nine year old” when she was actually one of the most significant figures in early Islamic history. An accomplished scholar, orator, educator, and warrior.

[Anonymous No.13985762]

>>13985743
People are naturally repulsed by pedophiles and this is confirmed by the Muslim mental gymnastics required to explain it away. The fact that nobody really started criticizing Islam about it until the 19th century can be explained by the fact that translations of the Muslim sources that document Muhammad's pedophilia didn't really appear until that time. Europe simply wasn't aware of how depraved the religion was.

[Anonymous No.13985774]

>>13984941
Reminder to report these threads. Mods, wtf do your job with the ban this time.

[Anonymous No.13985782]

>>13985762
What gynmastics?

The west didn't ban child marriage until the 20th Century

[Anonymous No.13985793]

>>13985774
>the Qur'an isn't a book

[Anonymous No.13985800]

>>13985762
I'm pretty sure polygamy was considered a lot more problematic

[Anonymous No.13985809]

>>13985782
Child marriage isn't child sex. Literally read the thread here where the Muslim is arguing that having sex with premenstrual children isn't pedophilia because technically puberty starts before menstruation.

>>13985800
No, it really isn't comparable to pedophilia.

[Anonymous No.13985821]

>>13985793
>desert shitskin books are okay to promote on /lit/
Reported.

Be sure to report this thread and mods make the ban permanent this time so OPs copypasta doesn't keep popping up.

[Anonymous No.13985824]

>>13985809
>Child marriage isn't child sex.
Okay, let me complete it for you: the west didn't ban child sex within marriage until the 20th Century

[Anonymous No.13985828]

>>13985821
Why are you so scared, anon? Is it because it holds the truth?

[Anonymous No.13985836]

>>13985824
Having sex with children has never been acceptable, and even if it were what the hell is the relevance? Supposing it was acceptable at some time in the past, it's not now. Muslims not only found it acceptable in the past, they find it acceptable right now.

[Anonymous No.13985847]

>>13985836
Guess what? Hold on tight. Islam is also homophobic and not feminist

[Anonymous No.13985857]

>>13985828
Lol. Self-immolate immediately, fecalskin.

[Anonymous No.13985861]

>>13985847
btw if you want to have fun go to /pol/ and tell them that anti-pedo sentiments are a Feminist psyop. They will lose their fucking shit

[Anonymous No.13985868]

>>13985847
I'm only offended by the pedophilia.

[Anonymous No.13985884]

>>13985861
I don't post on nsfw boards

>>13985868
Which you criticize by saying "current year"

[Anonymous No.13985889]

>>13985836

the issue is that it is considered acceptable by muslims for all time.

>>13985847

>ugh we KNOW

then why are you so passive about it?
westerners seem fucking cowed these days. they know islam runs against all their supposed principles, and yet all they'll do is roll their eyes and look for ways to sound snarky without facing the believable threat of violence islam and muslims bring.

[Anonymous No.13985890]

>>13985884
I literally never said that. I pointed out that even if the west found pedophilia to be acceptable in the past, that doesn't justify Islam's support of it right now.

[Anonymous No.13985892]

>>13985809
>No, it really isn't comparable to pedophilia.
I'm talking theologically, Christians thought Moslems were fucked up because of widespread polygamy not child marriage.

[Anonymous No.13985913]

>>13985884

the criticism is that it is considered behaviour worthy of emulation by muslims, unless they are to set themselves up as critics of the prophet, which they simply will not do.
muhammad had a very 'joseph smith' attitude to his mission, which explains why he annulled his son's marriage in order to steal his bride for himself.

[Anonymous No.13985937]

>>13985762
The West always had much more of a problem with polygamy and the number of the wives that Muhammad had. In virtually every society in the world prior to the 20th century, the ages for marriage among most of the population were much lower. Mother Mary herself is estimated to be around 13 or 14 when she gave birth to Jesus despite being depicted as an adult in most iconography.

>>13985889
The vast majority of Muslims in 2019 don’t have child marriages and the vast majority are monogamous. Muslims are even more monogamous than Westerners since they fuck like animals and don’t get married to begin with. It’s not nearly as much of a widespread issue as polemicists pretend it is, most marriages are done at normal ages and only regions with broken economies and living standards have issues with child marriage

[Anonymous No.13985938]

>>13985857
Why call for censorship? Does it possess arguments you can't handle?

[Anonymous No.13985966]

>>13985937
I don't care about polygamy or when people got married. Having sex with prepubescent children has never been acceptable, married or not, and even if it was acceptable, who gives a fuck? It being acceptable in the past is not a justification to accept it now. Pedophilia is abhorrent in all times and places it's practiced. Stop throwing out red herrings.

[Anonymous No.13985986]

>>13985938
This is a board about western culture. Your backwards semitic desert bullshit has no place here or in western countries. Kys shitskin.

Reminder to report.

[Anonymous No.13985992]

>>13984941
>Quran Thread
>miles of pedo posting

Who are the real degenerates? Can’t even get through mentioning the Quran without your goyim conditioning getting triggered

[Anonymous No.13985996]

>>13985889
>then why are you so passive about it?
I'm a Muslim.

[Anonymous No.13986004]

>>13985986
>This is a board about western culture
It's about literature from any culture

[Anonymous No.13986025]

>>13985889
>westerners seem fucking cowed these days. they know islam runs against all their supposed principles, and yet all they'll do is roll their eyes and look for ways to sound snarky without facing the believable threat of violence islam and muslims bring.

>NOOOOO! YOU CAN'T JUST KILL BLASPHEMERS!

[Anonymous No.13986026]

>>13985937
>The West has...

self-serving lies. i'm amazed you can post this with the dumb arrogance that you people carry off so effortlessly.

>The vast majority...

'vast majority' of billions can leave a small minority of millions.
but you are dodging my point - what the 'vast majority' does has no bearing on the fact that child marriage is not only permitted in islam, it is permitted for all time. it is not just permitted, it is behaviour worthy of emulation.
will you defame the prophet by telling us, the vile and polluted harbis, that he was wrong to fuck the mouth of a little girl?

>Muslims are even more...

irrelevant, which you know. similarly, i know you're just trying to wriggle out of providing a solid defense of islam.

>fuck like animals and don't get married to begin with

why be passive aggressive, inbred cunt? are you trying to do the 'beatifically smirking dai' bit?

[Anonymous No.13986028]

>>13985986
AH! So, you are scared! Scared that the Qur'an will bring about a truth that outpaces the West! I will pray that you come to see this idea as a liberating truth and not something to fear, Inshallah!

[Anonymous No.13986038]

Fucking children is based.

[Anonymous No.13986046]

>>13986025

>hides behind hope not hate, antifa, faggots, various other socialist and minority groups
>stabs them in the back at every opportunity

[Anonymous No.13986047]

>all the slave morality itt
we need to return to the based Pagans, all this virtue signalling of morality is unseemly and feminine

[Anonymous No.13986061]

>>13986047
sacrificing children is also based.

[Anonymous No.13986069]

>>13986046
"Yes"

They actually stoned homosexual Andy Ngo with concrete shakes for attacking Islam

Based and Sharia pilled

We let the left think we are their frens

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aLC7B8v07GI

[Anonymous No.13986073]

>>13985966
Marriage and sex in Islam isn’t allowed with prepubescent children. They must be pubescent and considered mature.

[Anonymous No.13986081]

>>13986028

>outpaces the West

islam is a punishment on those arrogant and stupid enough to tolerate or believe in it.
the 'land of islam' has been on a downward spiral for the better part of 1200, having finally run out of ways to coast along on the achievements of persians and dhimmis.
you can't outpace the west, only drag it back to your sluggish plod, to be overtaken by the chinese, who keep you neutered and your religion as a macabre skull trophy.

[Anonymous No.13986082]

>>13986061
it unironically is

[Anonymous No.13986084]

>>13986073
Do you think a girl that hasn't menstruated yet can be considered mature?

[Anonymous No.13986088]

>>13986004
Certainly not.

>>13986028
Shitskin, that you think people fear the "truth" of islam is reason enough for banning based on retardation.

[Anonymous No.13986099]

>>13986088
Censorship can only make the light of Islam shine brighter, friend.

[Anonymous No.13986101]

>>13986084
,Aisha was more mature at 9 than western women are at 25. By 16 she was an accomplished religious scholar. By her 20's a major political leader. Westerners grow up WAY more slowly today than they used to

[Anonymous No.13986104]

ALLLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH

[Anonymous No.13986115]

>>13986099
Akbar yourself, moron.

[Anonymous No.13986118]

>>13986101
Answer the question. Do you think a girl who hasn't menstruated yet can be considered mature? We know Aisha hadn't menstruated when Muhammad first started diddling her because she was still playing with dolls, and playing with dolls was forbidden to girls after their first period.

[Anonymous No.13986127]

>>13986099

very true, no matter how western governments try, people keep learning about muhammad's pedophilia, stealing his son's wife, raiding, mandate for death to vaguely defined 'hypocrites...'
islam shines like a pile of burning tyres in a slum.

>>13986101

>she was a very mature nine year old though!

absolute state of muslets

[Anonymous No.13986134]

>>13986115
Find peace, brother.

[Anonymous No.13986136]

>>13985732
There's nothing wrong with it though.

[Anonymous No.13986142]

>>13986134

same to you, on the understanding that life is struggle.

[Anonymous No.13986149]

>>13986136
Then don't get offended when I call your religion a pedophiles religion.

[Anonymous No.13986150]

>>13986118
Yes certainly if she had started puberty. The words for young man or woman in Arabic refer to the start of puberty to age 40. Adulthood begins for both sexes in Islam when puberty starts. Major responsible starts then. When Muhammad, alayhi salam, started puberty, he was sent to join tribal battles. Outside of war boys are considered responsible enough to shepherd and manage farms by puberty

[Anonymous No.13986155]

>>13986136

tell that to the judge, muckmad.

[Anonymous No.13986157]

>>13986026
You’re literally just seething with these responses. Muhammad married women who were older and significantly younger than him as a demonstration that marriage is compatible with anyone who is mature and pubescent. You can’t say that Islam uniquely encourages child marriage when Muhammad’s longest marriage was with someone much older than him. Aisha was never his only wife. If Islam genuinely does want Muslims to marry 9 year olds then you have to wonder why every Muslim isn't doing just that and why marrying people in their mid-teens was the norm for most of human history, not just Muslims. Anachronistically imposing your liberal beliefs on all of history is fucking retarded and incoherent. If you’re seriously going to call everyone prior to the 20th century a pedophile because they got married at 15 instead of 30 then I encourage you to try rethinking your bubble of liberalism and consider the other 99% of history when things were different instead of asserting your ridiculous perceptions of absolute moral progress

[Anonymous No.13986159]

>>13986150
Thank you for being honest. Islam is a religion for pedophiles.

[Anonymous No.13986172]

>>13986157
>Impose on history
So the morals and teachings of Muhammad are outdated and should be abandoned?

[Anonymous No.13986191]

>>13986172
Not from a Muslim perspective since he was divinely ordained and God gives ultimate moral ontology, not man-made ideologies. Non-Muslims could care less

[Anonymous No.13986211]

>>13986157

>seething

he says, too bumsore for paragraphs.

>Muhammad married women who were older and significantly younger than him as a demonstration that marriage is compatible with anyone who is mature and pubescent.

'i'm just doing this to prove a point lads! honest' :^)
you have to be an intellectual to understand why a cult leader would have a harem. a real big brain.

>You can’t say that Islam uniquely encourages child marriage

i can, because muhammad was the ultimate prophet of god. the ultimate prophet of god lived a life worthy of emulation. muhammad was a polygamist and a pedophile. therefore polygamy and pedophilia are both worthy of emulation.
which other religion, tell me, encourages this in the same way islam does? if the answer is none (it is) then islam uniquely encourages child marriage.
i feel like a tard wrangler, leading you by the hand like this.

>Anachronistically imposing your liberal beliefs on all of history is fucking retarded and incoherent

islam is a universalist religion/ideology, same as liberalism is. muhammad wasn't the prophet for 7th century arabia, he was the prophet for all time and all places, definitively. if a religion makes universal claims for itself, it must be judged by a universal standard.
the way you either cynically or stupidly vomit up the reasoning of atheist, western academics to supposedly serve islamic purposes is hypocritical and disgusting. take this line of thinking to its conclusion and you might apostasise yourself 'akhi.'

[Anonymous No.13986217]

aren't christians the ones infamous for child-fucking, despite it not being written in the bible as something you can do?

[Anonymous No.13986220]

>>13986211
I agree with this post, Islam should just own this stuff. The West are too pussy to do anything about it anyway because 'islamophobia' lmao

[Anonymous No.13986224]

>>13986136
>>13986155
Why would I be offended? Also not a Muslim.

[Anonymous No.13986228]

>>13986217
yeah well something tends to happen if you try to publish stories about mass rapes within Islam or Judaism. For some reason.

[Anonymous No.13986232]

>>13986217
Acceptance of kid-fucking is a semitic thing. Both jews and arabs tolerate and it's part of their culture. White societies do not tolerate such a thing at all.

[Anonymous No.13986264]

>>13986220
civillians cuck themselves into being "accepting" but geopolitically, islam has already been doomed by the west.

[Anonymous No.13986270]

>>13986220

[Anonymous No.13986278]

>>13986232

[Anonymous No.13986290]

>>13986217

no, the catholic church is, because they're a safe target for pisspoor, eunuch comedians to mock, whereas mocking, or even mentioning, islamic clerical pedophilia would take spine, the lack of which muslims and comedians share.
when a priest molests a child, the parents believe the child.
when an imam molests a child, the parents beat the child for behaving like a whore and lying about a pillar of the community.
harbis are unwilling to pry open your inbred communties, as they should, and put police in every mosque like the chinese do, so your fat 'uncle' will continue sticking his fingers in your little sister - but, as muslims have said itt, there's nothing wrong with that.

your post does raise an interesting point. the other akhi mentioned that >Anachronistically imposing your liberal beliefs on all of history is fucking retarded and incoherent
now you mention le pedo priets - how much of these little fragments of western cultural self criticism do you people half-digest, in order to use them against us later? why do you never offer up something of yourselves as a gesture of good faith, in the way we do?
it's fucking eerie to imagine you people are leering at our jokes, media, public discourse, always looking for angles of attack, always self-serving and belligerent behind a disingenuous veil of civility, like some grotty fatimid dai.
if you needed confirmation of islamic hostility and insincerity, that would be it.

[Anonymous No.13986304]

>>13986278
Please delete this!

[Anonymous No.13986315]

>>13986304
NOOOOO DONT POST THIS ONLY MUSLIMS MARRIED AT YOUNG AGES NOT THE WEST NOOOO

[Anonymous No.13986327]

>>13986304
>>13986315

>W-WHAT DO YOU MEAN A KING OF FRANCE ISN'T LIKE A SUPPOSED PROPHET OF GOD?! HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST MUHAMMAD BE HELD TO A HIGHER STANDARD OF MORALITY?!!!

didn't know the muslims considered king richard ii (pbuh) equal to 'rasul allah'
i'm sure he would have been flattered

[Anonymous No.13986334]

>>13986290
>now you mention le pedo priets - how much of these little fragments of western cultural self criticism do you people half-digest, in order to use them against us later? why do you never offer up something of yourselves as a gesture of good faith, in the way we do?
it's fucking eerie to imagine you people are leering at our jokes, media, public discourse, always looking for angles of attack, always self-serving and belligerent behind a disingenuous veil of civility, like some grotty fatimid dai.
if you needed confirmation of islamic hostility and insincerity, that would be it.
I'm not any of the previous posters, nor am I even a muslim, but I appreciate the passionate response.
To me it looks like you have good insight but lack self-awareness, for you too are "leering at their jokes, media, public discourse, always looking for angles of attack".

[Anonymous No.13986340]

>>13986327
Are you suggesting the Bible condemns child marriage? What about Numbers 31:18?

[Anonymous No.13986345]

>>13986327
Weren't Kings ordained by God though?

[Anonymous No.13986364]

>>13986290
>how much of these little fragments of western cultural self criticism do you people half-digest, in order to use them against us later? why do you never offer up something of yourselves as a gesture of good faith, in the way we do?

You say this immediately after deflecting any criticism of the Catholic Church and blaming it on media sensationalism rather than acknowledging the widespread institutional problem that it is. Sounds like you just typically characterize the West as the victim given your idea of oppressive inferiority in your post. The idea that Muslims aren’t reconsidering their traditions, cultural practices, institutions etc is just a brazen lie. Islamic reformers have been everywhere for the last century. Liberal Muslims are common. You’re doing the exact same that you criticize Muslims for doing as an excuse to violently hate them

[Anonymous No.13986379]

>>13986334

>"leering at their jokes, media, public discourse, always looking for angles of attack".

muslims don't make jokes about their religion, it's forbidden.
god knows they don't make such jokes around harbis. would present a divided front.

>>13986340

>Are you suggesting the Bible condemns child marriage

no, never did. you'd have to be pretty desperate to draw that out from what i posted there. that said, i don't see how it matters to this conversation - i'm not a christian.
i'm simply asking in what sense is the king of france comparable to the ultimate prophet of god?

[Anonymous No.13986438]

>>13986345

not in a general sense, no. divine right as an idea has its own history. in my country the estates felt they could dethrone an incompetent monarch if the need was pressing, but i'm not sure about france.

>>13986364

>deflecting any criticism of the Catholic Church and blaming it on media sensationalism

i didn't 'deflect any criticism,' i simply said that the cc being an acceptable target is why it is uniquely associated with pedophilia, despite institutional child abuse being a frequent occurrence in islamic, jewish, buddhist and hindu institutions. i remember an indian guy once using the term 'salt-haired pedo brahmin' as an insult and it got my noggin joggin.

>Sounds like you just typically characterize the West as the victim

of it's own stupidity and mendacity, perhaps. if western regimes had no interests in the middle east, i doubt toleration/acceptance of islam would be so vigorously pushed, nor would it be so important to avoid giving offence to the overindulged western muslim.

>brazen lie

misunderstanding at worst, but certainly not a lie.

>The idea that Muslims aren’t reconsidering their traditions, cultural practices, institutions etc is just a brazen lie. Islamic reformers have been everywhere for the last century

and everywhere for the last century they have been in the minority, on the defensive against a far more deeply rooted religious reaction. further, the idea that reform always creates something palatable to someone like you is comical at best - the islamic republic of iran is the product of that same reform movement.
personally, i question whether there is a point in 'reconsidering' their religion, since it is only a phase in its abandonment.

[Anonymous No.13986443]

>>13986159
St. Augustine's loli wife says hi

[Anonymous No.13986470]

Does this anon make sense?

[Anonymous No.13986484]

[Anonymous No.13986512]

>>13986470
>>13986484
Some truth, some lies, some distortion

[Anonymous No.13986695]

>>13986512

specify which is which or hold your breath.

[Anonymous No.13986736]

>>13986695
I have on many threads it's getting tedious especially when it's just dismissed. But to give an example, Hanbalis don't consider female circumcision mandatory, just praiseworthy. And Hanafis don't see it as a courtesy, they see it as of no religious value. In fact men don't like it, women perpetuate it entirely.

>Despite the evident suffering, it is women who organize all forms of FGM.[106][r]

People just lie about Islam and I don't care to constantly correct them because their agenda is to lie and attack us. If they honestly have an interest in truth and not just polenics, I will be happy to engage, otherwise it's not worth it having to engage hundreds of lies that can be manufactured in seconds

[Anonymous No.13986763]

>>13986736
>I have on many threads
Can you link them?

[Anonymous No.13986811]

>>13985272
So you're saying the group may be a little shiite?

[Anonymous No.13986821]

>>13986736

most of the 'lies' seem to be misunderstandings, and the corrections given so far don't really diminish the 'spirit' of the criticism, only the particulars.
if people just lie about islam, muslims just say people lie about islam and seldom explain why those people are wrong and why their criticisms, misguided or otherwise, are invalid.
d
ismissing everything people say about your religion which is unflattering, particularly if the dismissal amounts to a quibble like 'it's not mandatory, it's praiseworthy' seems disingenuous.

>If they honestly have an interest in truth and not just polemics, I will be happy to engage,

bit sinister, isn't it? aren't polemics a means of arriving at truth? if someone doesn't state their views explicitly, how may they be improved upon?

[Anonymous No.13986830]

>>13986763
They're gone but it was mostly on /his/. I will take the time to exhaustively go over everything some time when I don't have homework then just screenshot reply in the future. I will address a few here if you want to select some

[Anonymous No.13986839]

>>13986821
>aren't polemics a means of arriving at truth
Only if they are in good faith.

[Anonymous No.13986854]

>>13986839

is it not tempting to see bad faith where we choose to?

[Anonymous No.13986882]

>>13986854
I see bad faith where there is blatant lying by a person who has clearly researched s topic enough to know he is lying

[Anonymous No.13986907]

>>13986830
>I will address a few here if you want to select some
Can you tell me about Muhammad's "transition" from peaceful to warrior due to persecution? Was the "persecution is worse than murder" an excuse that Muhammad made up to justify banditry? Or was the persecution more terrible than what was said in that image?

[Anonymous No.13986914]

>>13986882

and so you dismiss everything they say as being entirely in bad faith?
those who study for years also have imperfect recollection. they may also make mistakes, particularly if they are not quoting from texts on hand.
granted the length of the post, is it not more reasonable to presume he believed he was telling the truth, and not to allow the presence of some inaccuracies/imprecisions to colour everything he has said, to the extent that on points with which we aren't familiar we are inclined to presume he's lying?

[Anonymous No.13986983]

>>13986907
The persecution lasted years including a boycott that lead to the death of his wife. It was pretty bad, his family and supporters lost everything. However he didn't leave Mecca until there was an attempt to assassinate him. Then he came to Medina and was made ruler. His raiding against Mecca was justified by that I think. He tolerated Christians and Jews but did kill any Meccan who was pagan and refused to convert

[Anonymous No.13987007]

>>13986914
Yet he writes off mistakes as taqiyyah. And he doesn't just make mistakes, he outright lies in a few places but uses his research to make his lies look credible. No, I think he was an apostate who felt justified to say anything to discredit Islam. Former Muslims make former Christians look benign. Muslims who become atheist or Christian are almost always extremely vindictive toward Islam

[Anonymous No.13987092]

>>13986470
>there were lots of versions with countless differences

This for example is a blatantly lie. Yes the Qur'an is primarily and oral work and intended to be memorized and transmitted by chabt. But The Qur'an was written down in the Prophet's ﷺ own life, he dictated its recording. It however wasn't *collated* until after he died; it was collated under Abu Bakr (may Allah be pleased with him). Uthman, may Allah be pleased with him, was the one who had this collated text copied and propagated to supplement the oral transmission

[Anonymous No.13987146]

>>13987007

may be a reasonable thing to do, if the doctrine of taqiyyah is a real doctrine.

>Muslims who become atheist or Christian are almost always extremely vindictive toward Islam

in english the zeal of a convert is proverbial. you should see how apostate communists write and speak about their former comrades.
the trick is to look at each thing they say and to evaluate it based on its accuracy, rather than its intent.

[Anonymous No.13987164]

>>13987146
Taqiyyah is a strictly Shia doctrine as I am sure he knows

[Anonymous No.13987171]

What should I read to learn about the life of Muhammad, his companions, the Rashidun Caliphate and the succession crisis?

[Anonymous No.13987180]

>>13987164

he addresses that point in >>13986484
if the argument is specious, i'm happy to hear why

[Anonymous No.13987202]

>>13987092
Post proof

[Anonymous No.13987205]

>>13987171
Islamic History podcast is a good start, so is Mufti Menk's life of Muhammad

>>13987180
No he doesn't, he lies. He cites a bad translation or at worst a dishonest translation (yes they certainly exist) as proof of Sunni doctrine of taqiyyah. If he were honest and not a filthy liar he would use a Sunni book or lecture explaining the doctrine instead of Glenn Becking it

[Anonymous No.13987213]

>>13987202
https://sunnah.com/bukhari/93/53

[Anonymous No.13987228]

>>13987213
>Sunnah
I meant actual proof, not Abbasid propaganda

[Anonymous No.13987230]

>read the Bible
>a guy's daughters rape him to "preserve the bloodline"
>Noah was raped by his son
>read the Quran
>the religion's prophet fucked an underage girl
Is it time to take the Daoism pill?

[Anonymous No.13987246]

>>13987228
>any proof besides the only records we have

No, but there isn't any proof for what he says either then. Also all history books in the world must be discarded

>>13987230
The Qur'an doesn't mention anything about her age and in fact only references Aisha, may Allah be pleased with her, obliquely.

[Anonymous No.13987250]

>>13987205

>at worst a dishonest translation (yes they certainly exist)

this validates the suspicion, doesn't it?
if sunni publishing houses are producing dishonest translations, it is reasonable for a non muslim to suspect that this dishonesty may be justifiable in religious terms

>he would use a Sunni book or lecture explaining the doctrine

could you not also present a sunni book or lecture wherein advantageous deceptions are expressly prohibited?

[Anonymous No.13987271]

>>13987246
For most historical events we've got multiple corroborating sources, if it is from a really long time ago, archeology and other sources which help us reach a conclusion. In this instance we've only got the writings of an Abbasid cocksucker. There's a reason early Islamic history is so controversial and such a difficult field

[Anonymous No.13987273]

>>13987250
There is no homogeneous "Sunni publishing houses" anymore than "Christian publishing houses". If there is a bad translation of the Bible no one says,"Ah, Christians have taqiyyah"

>could you not also present a sunni book or lecture wherein advantageous deceptions are expressly prohibited?


This is a fatwa
https://islamqa.info/en/answers/233891/is-lying-worse-than-zina

[Anonymous No.13987280]

>>13987271
For details like this,no, most things prior to the early modern era do not have multiple corraborating sources

[Anonymous No.13987283]

>>13987246
>may Allah be pleased
Cringe

See, folks? Do you see what happens to your culture when you let these savages into your country and teach them your language? They start pushing their one book by their pedo warlock god.

[Anonymous No.13987299]

>>13987280
So Sunnis don't lie to others, they lie to themselves

[Anonymous No.13987309]

>>13987283
>Do you see what happens to your culture

[Anonymous No.13987316]

>>13987299
Begging the question

>it's a Sunni source therefore dishonest because Sunnis use a dishonest source they are dishonest therefore Sunni sources are dishonest

[Anonymous No.13987419]

>>13987273

>Christian publishing houses

there are christian publishing houses, and while they're heterogenous, they're certainly christian.

>bad translation

there's a difference between a bad translation and a dishonest one, not unlike the difference between a bad scholar and a dishonest one we discussed earlier.

>fatwa

bit ambiguous, isn't it? firstly it quotes english translations of arabic texts, may i be certain that the original word used for lying also covers dissimulation and omission of truth?

[Anonymous No.13987424]

>>13987309

islam comes from arab culture, is encrusted with arabic mores and entails the veneration of an arab family and arab social order.
islam is no more 'above' the culture that birthed it than catholicism is, muslims admit this when they situate muhammad's conduct within an arabic historical context.

[Anonymous No.13987450]

>>13987419
Yes, quoting a dishonest translation to prove Sunnis have taqiyyah is dishonest just like it would be for Christians. There are reputable Sunni publishers and translators and there are unreliable ones

>>13987424
Yikes, Islam banned idols, dancing, gambling, musical instruments, prostitution, drinking and numerous other parts of Arab culture. Arab culture is Islamic because they were conquered. Initially they were about as friendly to it as France today

[Anonymous No.13987475]

>>13987450

>Yes, quoting a dishonest translation to prove Sunnis have taqiyyah is dishonest

on the part of the publisher, since they are misrepresenting the religion to outsiders. quoting a dishonest translation to highlight the willingness of an esteemed religious publishing house to deceive is not itself dishonest.
and what about the fatwa?

>Islam banned idols, dancing, gambling, musical instruments, prostitution, drinking and numerous other parts of Arab culture.

you could point towards the nazis having banned 'parts' of german culture, yet german they remain.
that muhammad and his followers prohibited this and that doesn't make them non-arabs, nor does it set them outside the perimeters of the culture in which they were raised and in which they moved.

[Anonymous No.13987484]

>>13987475
>you could point towards the nazis having banned 'parts' of german culture, yet german they remain.
Hitler was Australian mate.

[Anonymous No.13987492]

>>13987475
There isn't any point in arguing with you as you aren't arguing in good faith if you think a Salafi site that says taking slaves as concubines in jihad is halal is mistranslating to make Islam look more rosy

[Anonymous No.13987633]

>>13986914
>and so you dismiss everything they say as being entirely in bad faith?

Not him, but there isn’t any point in engaging with most anti Islamic polemics. Actual criticisms of the religion should be heard, but most of it are literally just complete lies and aren’t with anyone’s time. Like there isn’t any point in engaging with people who believe that the Quran tells people to kill all nonbelievers. Just boomer-tier mental retardation and dishonesty that isn’t taken seriously by any legitimate scholarly authority for the past 1400 years. That thread in particular repeats a lot of those lies and are easily refutable. Anyone that even believes in the Taqiyya shit should automatically be discredited, it’s a non argument and a joke at this point

[Anonymous No.13987906]

>>13984941
I used to think the bible was poorly written, but then I read some of the Koran. Jesus fucking christ it's like one of the pre-requisites to writing a religious book is being a fanfic-tier writer. I'm going to crack open the Guru Granth Sahib at some point and if it's just as bad I'm going to lose my shit.

[Anonymous No.13987915]

>>13987633
>Like there isn’t any point in engaging with people who believe that the Quran tells people to kill all nonbelievers
It LITERALLY says that, and that verse abrogates the previous ones. For fuck's sake you are stupid.

[Anonymous No.13988052]

Is the Maulana translation good?

[Anonymous No.13988060]

>>13987915
Exhibit A

[Anonymous No.13988073]

>>13987633
How old was aisha when Muhammed fucked her?

[Anonymous No.13988112]

>>13987633
at least you gotta admit that sunni hadiths are a bit fucked up

[Anonymous No.13988147]

>>13987633
Define "legitimate scholarly authority." Are the legitimate scholars only the ones who agree with you? IS has its own scholars.

[Anonymous No.13988323]

>>13988147
ISIS is certainly not a scholarly authority considering that nobody recognizes its legitimacy to begin with. By “legitimate scholars” I mean pretty much every *leading* authority in Islam and jurisprudence since the founding of the religion.

[Anonymous No.13989413]

>>13988323
So who's a true scholar is based solely on whether they have widespread recognition?

[Anonymous No.13989432]

>>13988060
It really is a waste of time since Muslims can only remain Muslim if they don't actually use their brain.

[Anonymous No.13989441]

i wish all muslims die a gruesome death.
no amount of prayers to a false god are ever answered lol

[Anonymous No.13989445]

>>13985430
Inbreeding

First cousin marriage rate is fucking insanely high in the mudslime world. Over 50% f Pakistani immigrants in the UK are married to a first cousin. When you spend hundreds of generations literally fucking your family members retardation becomes a rather prominent trait.

[Anonymous No.13989533]

>>13985782
European child marriage meant gettng legally married but it being more thn frowned upon to cohabitat before the girl is at least 16yo. Till then she lived with her parents and no sex.

A _slight_ differnce to actually fucking a 9 yo.

[Anonymous No.13989562]

>>13985937
>Mother Mary herself is estimated to be around 13 or 14
Nonsense, she was married to Joseph for years without bringing out any children and menarch started far later back in time. Even as recently as the 17th century puberty often didn't even start before 16yo. Where puberty might have been a good measure of age back 2000 years, it sure as heck isn't nowadays due to envoiremental poisons. So fucking a child barely bleeding will most likely result in her infertility or death by motherhood a her body isn't up to her hormons.

[Anonymous No.13989594]

>>13989413
Do you think ISIS is a legitimate representation of Islam and that Muslims should all be subject to their rule?

[Anonymous No.13989796]

Why have there been so many threads shilling Islam here lately?

>>13985793
>The Quran is literature

[Anonymous No.13989809]

>>13989533
>but it being more thn frowned upon to cohabitat before the girl is at least 16yo
When all else fails, lie, eh?

[Anonymous No.13989820]

>>13989796
It's the new contrarian phase of /lit/ now that atheism is out of fashion and Christianity is back on the mainstream

[Anonymous No.13990131]

Can someone explain why there's so few literary masterpieces inspired by the Koran compared to The Bible? Works that aren't necessarily ABOUT the specific book, but clearly draw inspiration.

Brothers K, Hamlet, LOTR, etc have some inspiration from the bible but how many great works have been inspired by the Koran and why the gap?

Is it the IQ differences between the ME and Europe? Is it because the supposed sloppy writing and supposed "plagarism" of the Koran?

[Anonymous No.13990135]

>>13990131
The Qur'an isn't a set of stories like the Bible, it's the crazed ramblings of a power hungry warlord

[Anonymous No.13990170]

>>13987280
yeah they do

[Anonymous No.13990538]

>>13989445
I think the lagging of the Muslim intellect in general is a result of the voluntarism and occasionalism inherent in their most dominant theology. To them God is pure will as opposed to the Christian conception of God as being logos. A consequence of this is they don't understand causality the same way the western mind does. For a Christian the universe must be a rational place because God himself is a rational being, but for a Muslim the universe is the way it is simply because God wills it to be that way, and consequently the Muslim God and universe is completely arbitrary. There's no room for secondary causation because to say that God needed to do something to bring about something else would violate their strict monotheism.

There's no point for a Muslim to do science or philosophy. This is why al-Ghazali is still one of the most popular thinkers despite being blown to shit by Averroes.

[Anonymous No.13990649]

>>13989809
It's not me who is lying here. There are multiple historicall documents showing us that nobels which did cohabitat with young wifes where shunned and one such wife even writting letters to her own daughters to never allows such thing, as she has become infertile as a consequence of too early sexual encounters with her husband.

Just think about the cultural context and about the fact that the catholic religion is the only one explicitly beeing against prepubertal sex (unlike what the cultural marxists wat to tell you). It's muslims and jews which practice this abomination, and those are the cultures which spring from it.

[Anonymous No.13991139]

>>13990131
It's because western schools teach western literature....

>>13990538
Maturidi (includes Taliban) doesn't subscribe to that. Your Boomer meme about it stopping science is extremely cringe, Al-Ghazali wrote that lands that don't produce scientists get demerits from the Almighty

>>13990649
Please stop
>>13986278

[Anonymous No.13991160]

>>13991139
I say the most dominant school of Islam thinks a certain way and you point out a school that doesn't think that way as if it refutes something. You bastards are legitimately dumb.

[Anonymous No.13991165]

>>13991139
>claims factual statements are lies
>lies by cropping a text where it shoes that other anon said the truth
Muslims are trully inbreed lying snakes.

[Anonymous No.13991375]

>>13985359
Seconded. I too would like to hear more about how a pedophile warlord raped a child.

[Anonymous No.13991378]

>>13991165
With extra emphasis on the inbred part. Family Fags.

[Anonymous No.13991389]

>>13989594
Undoubtedly. Isis is what happens when you let children play with their imaginary friends too long without correcting them

[Anonymous No.13991401]

>>13985515
Jacob wrestling an angel was to demonstrate him finally growing a spine and not taking the easy way out. He wasn’t made to heed, he lost, refused to submit, and his bravery was rewarded.

[Anonymous No.13991413]

>>13984941
>https://discord.gg/WEjnKr2
lol I got instabanned from the discord. Presumably because of the dumb name i signed up with when I couldn't be bothered finding a serious one :(

[Anonymous No.13991456]

>>13991413
I will unban you, change the name

[Anonymous No.13991465]

>>13991160
>I say the most dominant school of Islam thinks a certain way
You asserted that way is what set Muslims back

[Anonymous No.13991485]

>>13991465
Yes I did. The Muslims who think like that are being held back. They're intellectually crippled by the voluntarism and occasionalism inherent in their theology. Do you understand why the existence of some Muslims who don't think like that is not a refutation of why I say? Every time I interact with you people I have to act like I'm talking to a toddler.

[Anonymous No.13991488]

>>13984941
wtf, are reading groups really a thing here?

[Anonymous No.13991504]

>>13991488
No it's just some goofy discord group that thinks they're going to convert us.

[Anonymous No.13991544]

>>13991504
aww, I was going to make my own post-apocalyptic literature reading club...

[Anonymous No.13991595]

>>13991456
i have changed it to lordoflight1

[Anonymous No.13991630]

>>13991595
Unbanned

[Anonymous No.13991928]

>>13984941
fuk i thought there'd be more sexy nuns in this thread