Not happy with ruining the Greeks, now she moves on to the Romans... Emily Wilson is set to ruin all the classics.

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Anonymous Sat Oct 12 14:40:06 2019 No.13980482 [Reply] [Original]

Not happy with ruining the Greeks, now she moves on to the Romans... Emily Wilson is set to ruin all the classics.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 14:49:01 2019 No.13980528 coleman barks tier

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 14:51:53 2019 No.13980540 I’m sure there is some law in the UK against defacing historical/cultural artifacts. Jail her.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 14:52:36 2019 No.13980543 >>13980482 Why does /lit/ obsess over things like this? She's one borderline nameless translator of works already translated dozens of times over. What does it matter? Is it actual incels?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 14:53:49 2019 No.13980548 >>13980543 >Oxford World's Classics >irrelevant kys tbqphfam

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 14:53:57 2019 No.13980550 >>13980543 >borderline nameless She’s being adopted by “academics” They want to erase all wrongthink

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 14:54:29 2019 No.13980552 >>13980482 Meh, large quality of greek and roman literature is completely lost in translation.

Anonymous Sat Oct 12 14:54:56 2019 No.13980554

>>13980548
"relevant" is relative. Go ask everyone you know if they're keeping up with the latest Oxford World's Classics publications. Like I said, borderline nameless. There are well known English translations of this work already. It's a niche within a niche.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 14:55:02 2019 No.13980555 >>13980543 Her Seneca is the only colleced edition available at a nice price.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 14:55:29 2019 No.13980558 >>13980552 It’s not just the fact that’s it’s a bad translation. She editorializes the translations with her neomarxist feminism

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 14:58:15 2019 No.13980573 >>13980558 I really despise modern feminist. They ruin it for the less mentally ill feminist.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 14:59:14 2019 No.13980575 >>13980558 >neomarxist feminism What the fuck do you even think Marxism is? What about her translation is Marxist?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 14:59:57 2019 No.13980581 >>13980575 carlos marcus is in the play now.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 15:00:20 2019 No.13980583 >>13980575 he said neomarxist.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 15:01:15 2019 No.13980586 >>13980555 Are enough people clamoring for Seneca that the price point is all that important?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 15:02:43 2019 No.13980594 >>13980482 Bummer. I saw this cover the other day while looking for Seneca on Amazon. Guess I'll have to read him in Spanish now. Or is there a Penguin equivalent (in one boolk)?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 15:02:47 2019 No.13980595 >>13980586 yes, zoomers are voracious readers when they are not playing fortnite or making tik tok videos.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 15:06:39 2019 No.13980622 >>13980583 What about it is neomarxist?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 15:10:02 2019 No.13980637 >changes "whore" to "sex-worker" lmao what an absolute hack

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 15:11:24 2019 No.13980644 >>13980555 >>13980594 Get the 2 vol. edition published by University of Chicago if you aren't a poorfag.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 15:13:12 2019 No.13980652 >>13980622 >representing the odyssey as a pro-open borders, cultural relativist story where Odysseus is a bigoted toxic white male

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 15:13:26 2019 No.13980654 >>13980644 By the way, their broader complete works set that the tragedies volumes are a part of also includes his letters and other writings if you want to read those.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 15:15:48 2019 No.13980669 >changes roman to romperson im done

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 15:15:57 2019 No.13980670 >>13980622 her entire SJW approach to translation

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 15:17:07 2019 No.13980679 >changes "fellow Greek from another city" to "Mr Foreigner"

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 15:18:08 2019 No.13980690 >>13980644 >>13980654 thanks lad, will look into it.

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Sat Oct 12 15:19:23 2019 No.13980697 >>13980543 Yup. /pol9k/ brigade thread. They don’t even read, I’m sure.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 15:21:40 2019 No.13980708 >>13980482 Unfortunate. Oxford World Classics does have the best translations of Epictetus and Marcus Aurelius, though.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 15:24:57 2019 No.13980731 >>13980697 I stumbled upon this while looking for Seneca works to read, caterpillar... >>13980708 Both Penguin and Oxford have ups and downs, though. This one is clearly a down for Oxfags.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 15:29:35 2019 No.13980757 >>13980652 >>13980670 What are some actual examples of changes?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 15:30:17 2019 No.13980760 File: 5 KB, 225x224, download.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13980637 >>13980679 >>13980669 This cant be real

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 15:30:50 2019 No.13980761 >>13980697 Ohh sissy, aren't you the sissy who has been shilling the same two books for years now?...

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 15:32:32 2019 No.13980769 Just learn the language and do the proper translation. You won't regret the fruits of your labor.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 15:34:24 2019 No.13980781 File: 586 KB, 996x820, 1569176685130.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13980760 >tfw when it's real

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 15:36:03 2019 No.13980790 >>13980528 Kek unironically cutting

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 15:37:58 2019 No.13980797 >>13980697 Why don’t you go to r*ddit? I don’t get it.

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Sat Oct 12 15:38:50 2019 No.13980802 >>13980781 “Fellow Greek from another city” Is that really a direct translation of the Latin? It is awkward, male-anon

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Sat Oct 12 15:39:52 2019 No.13980808 >>13980797 Why don’t you go to stormfront? No one ever likes you.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 15:41:14 2019 No.13980814 >>13980697 I thought you had nice taste, butters. Shame you defend this aberration.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 15:42:29 2019 No.13980821 Just found out Norton is making the critical edition of The Odyssey with her translation.

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Sat Oct 12 15:44:44 2019 No.13980833 >>13980814 I haven’t read any Seneca

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 15:48:22 2019 No.13980857 >>13980757 Wilson blames Odysessius for the death of his men while the original text says no on could save them. She literally changes the perspective of the poem in the first paragraph.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 15:49:25 2019 No.13980861 >>13980821 Jesus Christ

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 15:52:14 2019 No.13980870 >>13980821 Fuck off is it

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 15:52:30 2019 No.13980873 File: 138 KB, 752x524, ovid.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13980821 >>13980861 Why would you be surprised? Pic is from the Norton Critical Edition of Ovid's Metamorphoses.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 15:53:15 2019 No.13980881 >>13980833 Of course you haven't, you've literally only read those three books you are incapable of shutting up about.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 15:53:51 2019 No.13980883 File: 171 KB, 774x598, ovid.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13980873 More.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 15:54:12 2019 No.13980884 >>13980821 Well her translation was already published by them in a regular edition so it's not really that surprising. The additional notes will pervert the story furthermore, though. There's no way this will work.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 15:54:26 2019 No.13980886 File: 34 KB, 796x960, 1567883915163.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13980802 >the Latin

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 15:55:26 2019 No.13980893 >>13980873 >>13980883 kek I never knew Norton was so shit. Thank god I haven't paid for their shit

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 15:58:28 2019 No.13980915 >>13980873 No it’s not No way

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 15:59:39 2019 No.13980923 >>13980808 Because I’m not an FBI agent

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 15:59:42 2019 No.13980925 >>13980915 You can see it in the Google Books preview: https://books.google.com/books?id=gggqYlbD5t8C&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q=homey&f=false

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 16:00:27 2019 No.13980927 >>13980697 Hey should I transition?

« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Sat Oct 12 16:00:40 2019 No.13980928
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>>13980881
>those three books
Lucretius, Horus and Aristophanes?
I’ve been meaning to get to the rest of Herodotus and Thucydides, but they’re such big books

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 16:03:51 2019 No.13980940 >>13980928 What are you talking about you flabby cunt?

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Sat Oct 12 16:04:12 2019 No.13980941 >>13980886 So Roman Seneca wrote in Greek? >>13980923 Implying they don’t have agents here too? >>13980927 To a new apartment?

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » mxvabIoSIE Sat Oct 12 16:04:55 2019 No.13980943 I have a confession to make /lit/... I was born a male and I have never actually read a book

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Sat Oct 12 16:05:30 2019 No.13980950 File: 112 KB, 1000x1328, 04D8A156-2593-4B16-AA6A-09A9F1390AB1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13980940 >He’s never heard of Lucretius, Horus and Aristophanes

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 16:05:39 2019 No.13980952 >>13980941 we're talking about all the shit wilson has put out, not limited to Seneca, you autist bug.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 16:10:06 2019 No.13980978 File: 83 KB, 770x679, DVM5EEwWkAE5w0i.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13980873 >'Cuz What the fuck who greenlit this. Why are they able to do this

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 16:11:45 2019 No.13980985 >>13980941 >So Roman Seneca wrote in Greek? That image is from the Odyssey you dumb dyke.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 16:12:15 2019 No.13980988 >>13980978 It's part of the phony "woke" nonsense trend in out-of-touch white fags of academia .

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 16:13:34 2019 No.13980996 >>13980573 There's never been any kind of feminism that wasn't mentally ill. The first feminists were every bit as insane as the modern ones.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 16:13:46 2019 No.13980998 >>13980950 Of course I've heard of them, why are you going on about them you chub?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 16:14:28 2019 No.13981000 >>13980978 >Delius his homey

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 16:15:06 2019 No.13981002 >>13980996 I thought they just wanted to vote, what's insane about that?

Anonymous Sat Oct 12 16:15:16 2019 No.13981004

>Classicist here, and hers is better than Fagles' for sure; no classicist I know would recommend Fagles' translation. In terms of faithfulness to the letter and spirit of the text, the opening of Richmond Lattimore's is still better for my money--Wilson's has the opposite fault to Fagles', in that she seems to oversimplify in a few places while Fagles' just runs on off course--but this makes me want to read the rest of Wilson's.

What the fuck are these people smoking

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Sat Oct 12 16:16:05 2019 No.13981011 >>13980952 Then you need to explain to your fellow male-anon that I am talking about Latin. Not me. Ignorant “man-splainer >>13980985 Information not provided, dumb non-breeding breeder

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Sat Oct 12 16:17:10 2019 No.13981015 >>13980998 >why are you going on about them you chub? Do I really have to tell you twice? I’ve read them of course.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 16:18:25 2019 No.13981020 >>13980781 DRUMPF BTFO

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 16:18:25 2019 No.13981021 Butterfly is Emily Wilson

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 16:19:24 2019 No.13981025 >>13981002 >what's insane about women voting >>13980873 Is this supposed to be a "hip" version that appeals to kids or is this presented as the definitive, faithful translation

Anonymous Sat Oct 12 16:20:07 2019 No.13981028

http://archive.is/pFJZW

George Chapman (1615):

The man, O Muse, inform, that many a way
Wound with his wisdom to his wished stay;
That wandered wondrous far, when he the town
Of sacred Troy had sack'd and shivered down;
The cities of a world of nations,
With all their manners, minds, and fashions,
He saw and knew; at sea felt many woes,
Much care sustained, to save from overthrows
Himself and friends in their retreat for home;
But so their fates he could not overcome,
Though much he thirsted it.

Alexander Pope (1725):

The man for wisdom's various arts renown'd,
Long exercised in woes, O Muse! resound;
Who, when his arms had wrought the destined fall
Of sacred Troy, and razed her heaven-built wall,
Wandering from clime to clime, observant stray'd,
Their manners noted, and their states survey'd,
On stormy seas unnumber'd toils he bore,
Safe with his friends to gain his natal shore:

Robert Fitzgerald (1961):

Sing in me, Muse, and through me tell the story
of that man skilled in all ways of contending,
the wanderer, harried for years on end,
after he plundered the stronghold
on the proud height of Troy. He saw the townlands
and learned the minds of many distant men,
and weathered many bitter nights and days
in his deep heart at sea, while he fought only
to save his life, to bring his shipmates home.

Richard Lattimore (1965):

Tell me, Muse, of the man of many ways, who was driven
far journeys, after he had sacked Troy’s sacred citadel.
Many were they whose cities he saw, whose minds he learned of,
many the pains he suffered in his spirit on the wide sea,
struggling for his own life and the homecoming of his companions.

Robert Fagles (1996):

Sing to me of the man, Muse, the man of twists and turns
driven time and again off course, once he had plundered
the hallowed heights of Troy.
Many cities of men he saw and learned their minds,
many pains he suffered, heartsick on the open sea,
fighting to save his life and bring his comrades home.

and now, Emily Wilson (2017):

Tell me about a complicated man.
Muse, tell me how he wandered and was lost
when he had wrecked the holy town of Troy,
and where he went, and who he met, the pain
he suffered in the storms at sea, and how
he worked to save his life and bring his men
back home.

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Sat Oct 12 16:20:25 2019 No.13981030 >>13981021 Haven’t read. Haven’t defended. Poor quality threads for whining about a simple translations should be deleted

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 16:20:58 2019 No.13981032 >>13981011 But you replied to a passage of The Odyssey, you colossal numbnuts... You're wrong and you know it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 16:21:38 2019 No.13981035 >>13981011 >Information not provided, dumb non-breeding breeder Why would Seneca have written an epic poem that mentioned Poseidon? I know you barely read but that doesn't excuse you for lacking basic common sense, you moon faced cat lady twat

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 16:21:54 2019 No.13981038 >>13980873 >Fuggedabout Apollo Wow, I never knew Ovid lived in a Martin Scorsese movie.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 16:22:31 2019 No.13981043 >>13981030 YOU should be deleted.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 16:22:41 2019 No.13981045 >>13981015 >I’ve read them of course. You defintley haven't

Anonymous Sat Oct 12 16:24:15 2019 No.13981050

>>13981030
>deled thred, pls
ok. just coming on here to piss and whine that people take notice of a shitty translation isn't any better than making a thread about it.

is there any ethical obligation to the business of translation? it seems dumb to give the reins of future readings and interpretations to a single politically-regressive no-talent cunt.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 16:25:03 2019 No.13981054 >>13981028 Jesus Christ lmao the difference is day and night to absurd levels. Who greenlit her shit?? It's like a version for retards and 12yo readers. She should be a writer for the Teletubbies not a classics translator.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 16:25:49 2019 No.13981058 File: 162 KB, 1200x800, fellow kids.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13980883 >poetry slam Ah, those Ancient Romans with their hippity-hoppety music.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 16:41:35 2019 No.13981147 >>13980652 >>13980670 >people actually follow Peterson in thinking politically correct neoliberalism is neomarxism >on a literature board

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 16:46:47 2019 No.13981166 >>13981147 What the fuck do you think authoritarian political correctness is but Bolshevism repurposed for race and gender instead of economic class?

Anonymous Sat Oct 12 16:50:46 2019 No.13981183

>>13980482
Was curious to see the differences, so here's the opening of Oedipus in Wilson's translation and two others.

E. F. Watling (1966):
>OEDIPUS: The night is at an end; but dimly yet
>The Lord Sun shows his face – a dull glow rising
>Out of a dusky cloud. It is a torch
>Of evil omen, this pale fire he brings
>With which to scan our plague-polluted homes.
>Day will reveal the havoc of the night.
>What king is happy on his throne? False joy,
>How many ills thy smiling face conceals!

Emily Wilson (2010):
>OEDIPUS Now night has been driven to exile, the hesitant Sun
>reappears,
>and gloomy brightness dawns from beneath a murky cloud.
>With melancholy light, with flames of grief,
>day looks out on these homes, wasted by greedy plague,
>revealing all the devastation night has made.
>Do you think being king is fun? What a fraud, this so-called
>good!
>What terrible suffering lies beneath your smile!

R. Scott Smith (2011):
>OEDIPUS: Ah, dawn already breaks. Night has been driven off, and the Sun-god rises once again, reluctantly, his rays dim behind mottled clouds. As he raises his grim light, a torch of mourning, he will see the homes devastated by the ravenous plague. Day will reveal the heaps of dead that night has wrought.
>Does anyone find joy in being king? Power, you deceitful blessing! How seductive an exterior you have, but what troubles you conceal!

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 16:50:53 2019 No.13981184 >>13981166 How is political correctness similar to Bolshevism

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 16:51:55 2019 No.13981185 >>13981183 Watling is miles ahead of both of them

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 16:53:16 2019 No.13981193 >>13980482 There's no 'ruining' the romans, they are intelectually bankrupt.

Anonymous Sat Oct 12 16:54:34 2019 No.13981201 [DELETED]

>>13981184
>this bourgeoisie (white man) is oppressing us. We need to rise up and push the bourgeoisie (white man) down
It’s pretty obvious political correctness and lefty idpol is based on the same core ideas as Bolshevism. Le power struggle between groups.
That’s why Peterstein says “Postmodern neomarxists”. Yes, it’s an oxymoron, but postmodern neomarxists are morons. They’ve taken a little bit of Marx, a little bit of Foucault, and a little bit of Lenin and mixed it all up

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 16:55:35 2019 No.13981207 >>13981183 Watling is the superior one. "Day will reveal the havoc of the night." That's a good line. Wilson has zero force and zero poetry. She should've been an accountant instead of a translator.

« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Sat Oct 12 16:57:13 2019 No.13981213

>>13981032
>>13981035
>Pay closer attention to the thread I want you to gtfo of
Why do non-breeding breeders do this?

>>13981045
Well, male-anons sure haven’t. They never talk about them.

>>13981050
Agree with the top, but to the second; there are not any single translations of the classics. There’s multiple interpretations.
Meh.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 17:00:19 2019 No.13981223 >>13981201 The notions of a power struggle between groups and an oppressed section of the population didn't start with Marx, idiot. Such a facile reading of Marx and Lenin, literally wikipedia skimming tier

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 17:01:22 2019 No.13981229 >>13981213 >>Pay closer attention to the thread I want you to gtfo of >Why do non-breeding breeders do this? Maybe if you paid attention you wouldn't say such stupid shit and people would be able to tolerate you.

Anonymous Sat Oct 12 17:01:22 2019 No.13981230

>>13981183
I was about to say hers was an improvement over the previous one seeing how it shat itself in several places, and then it turns out the middle and not the last was her version, so there goes my comment

This is the same translator who did that bad Odyssey translation? Why give that work more attention

Anonymous Sat Oct 12 17:05:37 2019 No.13981251

>>13981230
Despite what the OP said, Wilson's translation of Seneca has been around since 2010, so it's from a few years before her Odyssey translation.

I think this anon >>13981207 nails the main problem with Wilson's translations: they read like dry bureaucratic reports. These works need a translator with some poetic skill.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 17:07:08 2019 No.13981257 File: 131 KB, 396x385, 1547730527802.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13981183 >Do you think being king is fun? What a fraud, this so-called good! Jesus Christ, p-lease.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 17:08:25 2019 No.13981265 >>13981223 >I-It’s not real Marxism Fuck off. You’ll pilpul your way around what you think “Marxism” is all day.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 17:09:59 2019 No.13981269 >>13981265 Define Marxism as you understand it without searching for it online

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 17:12:21 2019 No.13981276 >>13981269 Marxism is the ideology people adopt when they dont have a strong father figure

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 17:13:30 2019 No.13981281 >>13981276 So you don't know what it is. It's fine if you don't, just don't LARP about it.

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Sat Oct 12 17:14:01 2019 No.13981283 >>13981229 That’s not it. You know why. >>13981257 There’s nothing wrong with it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 17:14:03 2019 No.13981284 >>13981269 You define it, since you’re the one who says a broad summary of Marxism isn’t Marxism.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 17:16:34 2019 No.13981297 >>13981283 >There’s nothing wrong with it. If you have shit taste, it's good.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 17:19:02 2019 No.13981305 >>13981283 Fight me you fucking tranny. Let me fucking end you

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 17:20:59 2019 No.13981312 >>13981283 >That’s not it. You know why. If you hadn't been such a retard I wouldn't even be talking to you right now. Fix up.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 17:27:18 2019 No.13981336 >>13981183 >hesitant >gloomy >melancholy light Wilson's is low-energy and dreary

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 17:36:00 2019 No.13981375 Again, why did we gave them the right to vote?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 17:37:38 2019 No.13981384 >>13981375 it seemed like a good idea at the time, now we know it was a mistake all a long, a curse in disguise.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 17:40:28 2019 No.13981400 >>13981375 Because politicians are soulless scumbags who will do anything to win no matter how destructive it is in the long run

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Sat Oct 12 17:42:34 2019 No.13981411 File: 161 KB, 620x450, E3DF8351-CE72-4343-BB10-BB896E3BC51E.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >They think they live in a democracy

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 17:43:52 2019 No.13981420 >>13980554 No. You don't seem to understand how people treat status.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 17:46:57 2019 No.13981436 >>13981411 >jew woman complaining

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 17:48:07 2019 No.13981444 >>13981436 She makes a good argument to be honest

Anonymous Sat Oct 12 18:12:15 2019 No.13981583

>>13981002
What's insane about giving a childish, selfish, vain, materialistic, fundamentally dishonest person the right to have a say on the life of a nation? Feminism is based on the lie that women are equal to -or even better than- men, and convincing the majority of people to accept it as true has been a disaster for the human race.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 18:16:28 2019 No.13981613 >>13981583 Okay you changed my mind. Thanks, lad.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 18:17:53 2019 No.13981619 >>13980802 Anon... It’s a translation of Homer... It’s in ancient Greek originally.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 18:19:10 2019 No.13981629 >>13980781 What’s this from? The book with Nausicaa? I’m going to lookup what Lattimore says later.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 18:22:38 2019 No.13981646 >>13981444 >durrrr you cant vote your country into anarchic oblivion so that means nothing changes Eat my ass, woman

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 18:27:31 2019 No.13981663 >>13981619 >Anon Newfag

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 18:29:40 2019 No.13981677 >>13981629 It's from Book 7, lines 27-30.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 18:29:46 2019 No.13981679 File: 355 KB, 1202x1600, Alexander-Pope-portrait-Thomas-Hudson-London-National.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13981028 Pope is such a badass motherfucker. It doesn't matter how short and sickly he was, he had the soul of a Chad.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 18:30:53 2019 No.13981684 >>13981646 >woman I’m /pol/

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 18:31:23 2019 No.13981687 >>13981679 based popeposter

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 18:37:59 2019 No.13981714 >>13981684 Even worse

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 18:40:30 2019 No.13981728 >>13980482 she isnt changing anything, just adding another interpretation. nice bait though

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Sat Oct 12 18:41:05 2019 No.13981731 >>13981619 Didn’t recognize it is all. >>13981663 Please. >>13981646 >He thinks he lives in a democracy Xy, please.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 18:42:14 2019 No.13981737 >>13981728 >>13980857

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 18:43:21 2019 No.13981743 >>13981714 If you’re not right wing trad as fuck after reading the classics, you’re not reading them right

Anonymous Sat Oct 12 18:43:21 2019 No.13981744

>>13980781
Here's how that passage looks in various translations of The Odyssey.

Richmond Lattimore (1967):
>Then in turn the gray-eyed goddess Athene answered him:
>‘Then, my friend and father, I will show you the house that you ask me
>to show, since the king lives close beside my own stately father.
>But go on in silence the while I lead the way for you, and do not
>give any of these people your eye, neither ask them questions,
>for they do not have very much patience with men from the outlands,
>nor do they lovingly entertain the man come from elsewhere;
>they, confident in the speed of their running ships, cross over
>the great open water, since this is the gift of the Earthshaker
>to them, whose ships move swift as thought, or as a winged creature.’

Robert Fagles (1996):
>“Oh yes, sir,
>good old stranger,” the bright-eyed goddess said,
>“I’ll show you the very palace that you’re after —
>the king lives right beside my noble father.
>Come, quietly too, and I will lead the way.
>Now not a glance at anyone, not a question.
>The men here never suffer strangers gladly,
>have no love for hosting a man from foreign lands.
>All they really trust are their fast, flying ships
>that cross the mighty ocean. Gifts of Poseidon,
>ah what ships they are —
>quick as a bird, quick as a darting thought!”

Emily Wilson (2017):
>With twinkling eyes
>the goddess answered, “Mr. Foreigner,
>I will take you to where you want to go.
>The king lives near my father’s home. But yo
>must walk in silence. Do not look at people,
>and ask no questions. People here are not
>too keen on strangers coming from abroad,
>although they like to cross the sea themselves.
>They know their ships go very fast. Poseidon
>gave them this gift. Their boats can fly like wings,
>or quick as thoughts.”

Peter Green (2018):
>Then the goddess, grey-eyed Athēnē, answered him, saying:
>“Yes, stranger, father, I can show you the house you want,
>for this man’s the neighbor of my own illustrious father!
>Just keep silent and follow where I lead the way—
>Don’t catch anyone’s eye, or ask them questions,
>for the folk hereabouts have little patience with strangers,
>and are short on welcome for those from another country.
>They rely on the swiftness of the racing vessels in which
>they traverse the sea’s great gulf, a gift from the Earth-Shaker:
>their ships contrive all the speed of a wing or a thought.”

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 18:45:22 2019 No.13981753 >>13980482 Didn’t she do that work on Seneca before Homer?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 18:45:35 2019 No.13981756 >>13981743 You said you're trad yet you promote anti-establishment ideas like the one in the Jewess picture.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 18:45:56 2019 No.13981757 File: 163 KB, 1462x1462, 1560075072288.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13981744 >Mr. Foreigner

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 18:46:24 2019 No.13981758 >>13980581 Ah shiieet

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 18:47:06 2019 No.13981761 File: 75 KB, 933x933, 1566698317773.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13981744 >With twinkling eyes >Mr. Foreigner

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 18:48:10 2019 No.13981767 >>13981737 the original is still the original though. this is just another translation in the list of translations. beside, only pseuds actually read homer

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 18:50:55 2019 No.13981787 >>13981767 Not sure why you defend this shit translation if you don't even read Homer, then, faggot.

Anonymous Sat Oct 12 18:52:35 2019 No.13981796

>>13980857
Some translation comparisons of the opening of The Odyssey.

Richmond Lattimore (1967):
>Tell me, Muse, of the man of many ways, who was driven
>far journeys, after he had sacked Troy's sacred citadel.
>Many were they whose cities he saw, whose minds he learned of,
>many the pains he suffered in his spirit on the wide sea,
>struggling for his own life and the homecoming of his companions.
>Even so he could not save his companions, hard though
>he strove to; they were destroyed by their own wild recklessness,
>fools, who devoured the oxen of Helios, the Sun God,
>and he took away the day of their homecoming. From some point
>here, goddess, daughter of Zeus, speak, and begin our story.

Robert Fagles (1996):
>Sing to me of the man, Muse, the man of twists and turns
>driven time and again off course, once he had plundered
>the hallowed heights of Troy.
>Many cities of men he saw and learned their minds,
>many pains he suffered, heartsick on the open sea,
>fighting to save his life and bring his comrades home.
>But he could not save them from disaster, hard as he strove —
>the recklessness of their own ways destroyed them all,
>the blind fools, they devoured the cattle of the Sun
>and the Sungod wiped from sight the day of their return.
>Launch out on his story, Muse, daughter of Zeus,
>start from where you will —sing for our time too.

Emily Wilson (2017):
>Tell me about a complicated man.
>Muse, tell me how he wandered and was lost
>when he had wrecked the holy town of Troy,
>and where he went, and who he met, the pain
>he suffered in the storms at sea, and how
>he worked to save his life and bring his men
>back home. He failed to keep them safe; poor fools,
>they ate the Sun God’s cattle, and the god
>kept them from home. Now goddess, child of Zeus,
>tell the old story for our modern times.
>Find the beginning.

Peter Green (2018):
>The man, Muse—tell me about that resourceful man, who wandered
>far and wide, when he’d sacked Troy’s sacred citadel:
>many men’s townships he saw, and learned their ways of thinking,
>many the griefs he suffered at heart on the open sea,
>battling for his own life and his comrades’ homecoming. Yet
>no way could he save his comrades, much though he longed to—
>it was through their own blind recklessness that they perished,
>the fools, for they slaughtered the cattle of Hēlios the sun god
>and ate them: for that he took from them their day of returning.
>Tell us this tale, goddess, child of Zeus; start anywhere in it!

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 18:54:39 2019 No.13981813 >>13981787 because this board needs to realise that these types of translations are part of academic discourse

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 18:56:22 2019 No.13981822 >>13981813 So? That makes it acceptable? Modern academia is a joke and everyone here knows that.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 18:57:55 2019 No.13981834 >>13981796 I like how she omits the fact that Odysseus tried hard to save them and instead blames him. Fucking cunt.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 19:02:57 2019 No.13981861 >>13981834 Yeah, the other three have: >hard though he strove to >hard as he strove >much though he longed to But in Wilson there's nothing. Anyone actually know Ancient Greek and able to check the original?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 19:13:55 2019 No.13981915 >>13981861 It's there in the Greek, a really literal borderline nonsensical translation would be "he suffered with grief"

Anonymous Sat Oct 12 19:15:43 2019 No.13981924

>>13981861
In this word for word translation of the original Greek (https://lrc.la.utexas.edu/eieol/grkol/30)) they translate that bit as "but not even thus comrades did he save desiring although". So yeah, the sentiment is present in the original, but Wilson completely removed it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 19:16:02 2019 No.13981926 >>13980543 >>13981767 >>13981728 I think this kind of defense of SJW shit is funny. "Just ignore them, no one cares about them, you still have the old translations".

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 19:21:10 2019 No.13981966 >>13981028 People who defend the notion of women being in the same intellectual level as men should be executed.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 19:27:28 2019 No.13982008 >>13980540 Are you not aware of the UK at all? According to the BBC the Romans and greeks were black

Anonymous Sat Oct 12 19:28:29 2019 No.13982019

>>13981926
It always comes around and bites them in the ass, which it already has, the people who defended this shit in academic are now out of their jobs because universities are downsizing their classics department, language degrees are being entirely axed, etc.

Anonymous Sat Oct 12 19:28:45 2019 No.13982020

>>13980482
From her Wikipedia article:
>Wilson "comes from a long line of academics", including both her parents, A. N. Wilson and Katherine Duncan-Jones, her uncle, and her maternal grandparents, including Elsie Duncan-Jones. Her sister is the food writer Bee Wilson. Wilson's parents divorced shortly before she went to college.
So there you have it, /lit/. She got published thanks to her family's connections and she hates men because "daddy left mummy".

Anonymous Sat Oct 12 19:37:38 2019 No.13982077

>>13981796
Tyrone DeShawn (2055)
>Holla @ me bouta fancy nigga
>Thot, holla how dat nigga be missin' 'cuz he finna gonna go
>'cuz he wuz clappin' da cracka crib of Troy
>and where dat nigga went, wut niggaz he holla @, da payne dayum
>dat nigga be in pain in da wutta
>n how dat nigga got da welfare 2 be alive know whattam sayin
>how he got his niggaz back in da hood
>but dem niggaz were 2 wyld to keep at bein clappt', fool niggaz
>dey wuz eatin da sun kang grassdoggos n sheit, and da kang
>wuz like miss me wid dat sheit u aint gettin back in da hood homie
>now thotkang, nigga of Thundercracka
>be tellin da old story fo' rite now
>finna gonna look fo' da begin

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 19:46:52 2019 No.13982132 >>13981744 lel

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 19:51:06 2019 No.13982164 >>13982020 Holy shit, her dad is A.N. Wilson? I had no idea. I like Wilson pere, it’s a shame he raised a feminist cunt for daughter

Anonymous Sat Oct 12 20:13:18 2019 No.13982279

>>13981213
>There’s multiple interpretations.
you're avoiding the question.

"interpretation" is a moot point. the question was about the context of the interpretation. this ugly cunt obviously considers a hyper-feminist interpretation superior to those that came before, and that's worth discussing. the drop in the quality of the prose she's producing is stark and jarring.

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Sat Oct 12 20:17:07 2019 No.13982293 File: 51 KB, 391x500, 383C74B8-BE48-452A-B8D3-CA5218F3B176.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13982279 I wish someone would do a Creole Odyssey

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 20:17:50 2019 No.13982298 >>13982293 just read zora neale hurston

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 20:18:06 2019 No.13982301 >>13982293 Emily Wilson already did it, for all intents and purposes.

Anonymous Sat Oct 12 20:40:37 2019 No.13982388

The real problem with Wilson's translation isn't the fact that it's laughably bad, but rather the fact that you know some people are going to push it as the definitive translation and all because Wilson's ideas are politically in vogue right now.

This is why politics should have no place in art.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 20:48:06 2019 No.13982411 >>13982293 I wish someone would rapemurder you.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 21:00:08 2019 No.13982465 File: 2.26 MB, 2099x2136, 20191012_205938.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13981796 Fitzgerald's translation

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 21:06:34 2019 No.13982503 File: 2.27 MB, 2644x1539, 20191012_210544.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13980781

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Sat Oct 12 21:10:31 2019 No.13982514 >>13982503 >Grandfer

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 21:11:42 2019 No.13982518 >>13981861 >how he worked to it's crazy how people without reading comprehension can have such bad faith arguments against this translation because it's by a (((wammen))) that said, the Fagles is obviously the most appealing one there

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 21:11:58 2019 No.13982519 >>13982514 >Mr Foreigner >twinkling eyes

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 21:13:20 2019 No.13982524 >>13982077 underrated post and nice dubs. had me cackling from beginning to end. is this oc, or has someone done the whole thing this way?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 21:13:33 2019 No.13982526 >>13982518 I have other translations by women, though. The fact that Wilson sucks is unrelated to that.

Anonymous Sat Oct 12 21:16:38 2019 No.13982539

>>13982526
i wanna be clear that this thread has ample reason that her translation sucks, and i have no reason to read it much more, but this idea that she doesn't mention him working hard to save his comrades is just people not being able to read a sentence in its entirety. it's this kind of bad faith engagement that makes people think you're being a reactionary and debases the myriad valid criticisms of her translation

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 21:19:10 2019 No.13982550 >>13982524 Thanks, it's made on the spot by me, so OC.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 21:23:51 2019 No.13982567 >>13982518 Her translation says "he failed," the others say nothing could save them and place more blame on their recklessness, not Odysseus' inability.

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 21:40:07 2019 No.13982646 >>13982077 this is now pasta for every Homer thread

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 22:04:56 2019 No.13982758 File: 10 KB, 322x256, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13981796 >>13981744 >The New York Times named Wilson's translation as one of its 100 notable books of 2018. What the hell?

>>	Anonymous Sat Oct 12 22:40:57 2019 No.13982927 File: 141 KB, 700x700, wojak_crying_laughing_guy_mask.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] MR FOREIGNER

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Sun Oct 13 00:09:38 2019 No.13983288 File: 60 KB, 477x478, D96C655A-9615-4B8C-AB69-C3A8A419239D.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13982927 GRANDFER?

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 01:28:03 2019 No.13983577 >>13980482 Why the FUCK would Oxford World Classics publish a translation by Emily Wilson?

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Sun Oct 13 01:35:53 2019 No.13983599 >>13983577 Why would/lit/ make a thread about Molymeme tweets?

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 01:38:11 2019 No.13983612 >>13983599 You haven't even read it, so stop defending her solely because she was a cunt.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 01:41:39 2019 No.13983625 >>13983288 He says "father-stranger" in the original Greek. The foreigner is an old timer.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 01:42:41 2019 No.13983630 >>13983599 You haven't even read it, so stop defending her solely because she has a cunt.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 01:45:01 2019 No.13983639 Can't wait for her translation of the Bible.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 01:47:08 2019 No.13983645 >>13983288 He says "father-stranger" (xeine pater) in the original Greek.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 01:49:42 2019 No.13983652 Athena says "father-stranger" (xeine pater) in the original Greek.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 01:50:43 2019 No.13983655 >>13983288 Athena says "father-stranger" (xeine pater) in the original Greek.

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Sun Oct 13 02:05:57 2019 No.13983701 File: 120 KB, 1400x700, B8D56A50-416E-40F0-B768-DB68663B2EF3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13983630 Stop thinking in absolutes. >>13983655 Saying stranger sums it up. But wtf is a granger?

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 02:07:31 2019 No.13983709 >>13980482 I want to see her Iliad translation

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Sun Oct 13 02:07:45 2019 No.13983710 File: 120 KB, 1400x700, 42EC9AC2-65CD-4698-8C5B-372ED89CE34D.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13983630 Stop thinking in absolutes. >>13983655 Saying stranger sums it up. But wtf is a granfer?

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 02:08:32 2019 No.13983715 >>13983710 B8D56A50-416E-40F0-B768-DB68663B2EF3

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 02:09:16 2019 No.13983720 >>13983710 >hasn't read her shit translations >defends her anyway fucking sjws lmao

Anonymous Sun Oct 13 02:23:05 2019 No.13983763

>>13983710
In the original Greek, Athena's mocking his supposed aged condition by using words she'd use among her older relatives. Grandfer obviously means grandfather. Fitzgerald went for the contextual route intead of the textual one. I wouldn't expect to understand Greek stuff, though.

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Sun Oct 13 03:11:24 2019 No.13983888 >>13983720 Where? >>13983763 It isn’t obvious at all. It’s a whole new word out of nowhere. Even with this context it would give me pause and take me out of reading it

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 03:18:29 2019 No.13983906 >>13983888 It's a British word.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 03:19:31 2019 No.13983910 >>13983888 >Where? The entire thread you've been defending her nonsense, don't play fool.

Anonymous Sun Oct 13 04:06:29 2019 No.13984016

>>13983888
>It isn’t obvious at all. It’s a whole new word out of nowhere. Even with this context it would give me pause and take me out of reading it

This made me realise something else about Wilson's translation: it reads like a simplified English version, one of those books for slow kids with restricted vocabulary.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 07:27:52 2019 No.13984491 File: 207 KB, 1242x1394, 1564989995599.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13982077 >'cuz he wuz clappin' da cracka crib of Troy Id buy this

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 07:33:32 2019 No.13984504 Have you read this translation or not? Niggas mad just because there's a female translator of classics but then will recommend Edith Hamilton's mythology and crack open her collected Plato.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 07:56:10 2019 No.13984547 >>13984504 People aren't criticising Wilson because she's a woman. They're criticising her because her translation is terrible, but you just know it's getting promoted by the woke crowd BECAUSE she's a woman.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 07:58:16 2019 No.13984556 >>13984504 >anons hate this female translator just because she's female >except they like this other female translator Way to refute your own argument retard

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 08:08:30 2019 No.13984583 I love the idea that a bad translation can destroy a book. That's it, after we print it we're burning every copy of the original greek and all other translations, this is the only version you get now

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 09:18:19 2019 No.13984854 What about Verity's translation?

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 09:21:47 2019 No.13984868 >>13980697 Please stop posting here, you literal mongoloid.

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Sun Oct 13 09:21:54 2019 No.13984870 >>13983910 You have a reading disability. >>13984016 Not being British doesn’t make one slow. But fine. Too simple for you. Lets have dozens of thread just like this proclaiming the same damn thing. Get over it

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 09:24:22 2019 No.13984877 >>13980941 >So Roman Seneca wrote in Greek? Greek was the educated man's language. Why are you even here if you don't know that?

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 09:25:45 2019 No.13984883 >>13980652 That’s exactly how the original was though

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 09:28:28 2019 No.13984901 >>13980873 Holy shit now I know how it feels to be triggered

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 09:30:54 2019 No.13984912 >>13980873 this is based, I approve

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 09:31:11 2019 No.13984913 File: 3 KB, 357x80, Capture.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] roastie toastie

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 09:39:23 2019 No.13984940 >>13984870 Do you fancy her or something? Getting butthurt over butthurt is super pathetic.

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Sun Oct 13 09:42:58 2019 No.13984950 >>13984940 You’re delusional

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 10:02:27 2019 No.13984999 >>13984950 kys already you're the reason why this board is shit

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Sun Oct 13 10:05:02 2019 No.13985004 >>13984999 It went to shit in my absence. It was a better board years ago. One poster doesn’t change the course of the place. You ARE delusional

Anonymous Sun Oct 13 10:21:11 2019 No.13985063

>>13984583
>I love the idea that a bad translation can destroy a book. That's it, after we print it we're burning every copy of the original greek and all other translations, this is the only version you get now

They will promote the woke translation and if they succeed in making it the most popular translation, many people will end up having tons of wrong ideas about the book.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 11:35:11 2019 No.13985340 >>13982077 underrated, would buy a full version

Anonymous Sun Oct 13 11:39:09 2019 No.13985360
File: 9 KB, 205x246, 1515064223948.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>13984504
>Niggas mad just because there's a female translator of classics
>but then will recommend Edith Hamilton's mythology and crack open her collected Plato.
it hurt itself in its confusion!

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 11:42:48 2019 No.13985372 Son she'll make a simpler version of critque of pure reason called "Reason for women, 42 tips to dismantle male dogmatic philosophy".

Anonymous Sun Oct 13 11:45:01 2019 No.13985380

>>13980482
Take note of how there's people in this thread who are criticizing Wilson and people saying the critics are reacting to nothing. I'm not seeing anyone talk about why they actually enjoy Wilson, just that she's 'not a big deal'. Can anyone actually go to bat for "Mr. Foreigner"?

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 11:48:24 2019 No.13985400 >>13985372 okay father

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 11:51:06 2019 No.13985413 >>13985360 It has nothing to do with her being a woman. There are similar sorts of translations done by men as well. See >>13980873 >>13980883

Anonymous Sun Oct 13 11:57:18 2019 No.13985445

>>13985380
It's accessible and more easily comprehensible to modern audiences. With the advent of modern air-travel there is no longer such a thing as 'far-off lands'. In multicultural societies one cannot be distinguished purely by their quality as a 'stranger', so the use of the moniker 'Mr. Foreigner' artificially re-establishes the meaning of the text so that it may have relevance to a contemporary readership.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 12:00:02 2019 No.13985457 >>13985445 >You should misrepresent the cultural context of the work so that dumb-dumbs can understand it Sounds like a great idea.

Anonymous Sun Oct 13 12:05:35 2019 No.13985478

>>13985445
>In multicultural societies one cannot be distinguished purely by their quality as a 'stranger'
nigga wut? how does miscegenatioin mean people can't be strangers anymore? so because there are lots of shitskins around, it means i magically know them all? i know one, i know them all? is that what you're saying? sounds pretty racist.

Anonymous Sun Oct 13 12:06:28 2019 No.13985484

>>13985457
I don't think it's necessarily misrepresenting the cultural context, more just rephrasing it. The semantic meaning is preserved, it's just syntactically more relevant to modern audiences. I don't think it's good, believe me, but it is a possible defence one could employ.

Anonymous Sun Oct 13 12:07:05 2019 No.13985485

>>13985445
>With the advent of modern air-travel there is no longer such a thing as 'far-off lands'.
Yes there are? The average person doesn't go traveling around the world on a whim. And even if they did they'd be dealing with foreign languages, different cultures, etc.

Anonymous Sun Oct 13 12:09:18 2019 No.13985495

>>13985478
I'm just playing devil's advocate here. What I mean by multiculturalism destroying the concept of the stranger is that, whereas in past ages one would easily be able to differentiate a foreigner from a native citizen by dint of their skin colour, phenotype, etc - the same is increasingly difficult in the modern world due to the naturalised status of many otherwise 'foreign'-looking people. You can't point at a person who looks French and just assume that they are French, at least not anymore.

Anonymous Sun Oct 13 12:11:48 2019 No.13985512

>>13985485
When the other side of the planet is accessible by 13-hour flights, the concept of the 'far-off land' begins to break down. Granted, not everyone can afford or wishes to go travelling, and there is still a concept of exoticism everywhere you go in the world - but the mere knowing of the fact that I can, if I so desired and had the funds, travel to anywhere on Earth with almost no limitations is enough to slightly dampen the idea of anywhere being 'far-off'.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 12:16:00 2019 No.13985526 >>13985495 the ancient greeks were all racially identical.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 12:19:54 2019 No.13985538 >>13980482 >now she moves on to the Romans >Publisher: Oxford University Press; 1 edition (February 28, 2010)

Anonymous Sun Oct 13 12:22:57 2019 No.13985551

>>13985526
Racial features are not necessarily the be-all and end-all of identity markers - I can point at a man speaking French, wearing a beret and cheating on his wife and call him French and still be wrong, he may be German, Pakistani or Mongolian for all I know (at least in the logic of the modern nation-state).

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 12:25:47 2019 No.13985569 >>13985526 nope, there were foreign slaves, mercenaries, traders etc in a greek polis. there are jokes in aristophanes about which people can't pronounce greek properly, who's circumcised and so on.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 12:27:53 2019 No.13985580 >>13982077 Please do the full translation.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 13:19:04 2019 No.13985870 >>13985569 those people weren't greek just because they were in greece

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 13:43:55 2019 No.13986059 >>13984854 His Odyssey and Iliad are good.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 13:49:31 2019 No.13986091 >>13983710 >Saying stranger sums it up no it doesnt you fucking idiot. it's missing the other half of the phrase, "father"

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 14:04:01 2019 No.13986197 >>13986059 Danke

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 15:43:25 2019 No.13986847 >>13985413 that's the point you stupid nigger

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 16:02:46 2019 No.13986975 >>13982008 They certainly were suspiciously tanned and not of wholesome WASP stock.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 16:05:33 2019 No.13986992 >>13986975 why is it suspicious for a maritime mediterranean culture to be tanned? >wholesome WASP stock i can imagine your slick, off-white burger queen face contorted into a poofy smirk as you plopped this out.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 16:06:50 2019 No.13987003 >>13982758 If you think about it the idea that there are so many as 100 notable book every year and that the New York Times would be aware of them without delay implies the criterium for what is notable must be rather lax.

Anonymous Sun Oct 13 16:09:12 2019 No.13987014

>>13985063
Meh, at worst people who don't read anything ressembling a classic will pick it up because it's suposedly "woke", then lose interest as they realize even a woke translation is still too boring for them. Meanwhile classicsfags will keep their 4 handpicked favorites.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 16:12:18 2019 No.13987036 >>13986992 >why is it suspicious for a maritime mediterranean culture to be tanned? that'sthejoke.jpg

Anonymous Sun Oct 13 16:38:28 2019 No.13987191

>>13985445
I appreciate the Devil's advocating, but I feel like if that level of simplification/alteration is required, it's better to have these readers read an abridged "Great Illustrated Classics" or a comic book of the Odyssey instead. I feel like Wilson is just distant enough from the text to feel counterfeit.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 16:39:20 2019 No.13987199 what does this board think of Anne Carson’s translations of some of the classics?

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 16:58:57 2019 No.13987282 >>13981028 holy shit

Anonymous Sun Oct 13 17:16:09 2019 No.13987355

>Chapman
Ho! Guests! what are ye? whence saile ye these seas?
Trafficke, or roue ye? and like theeves oppresse
Poore strange adventurers; exposing so
Your soules to danger, and your lives to wo?
This utt'rd he; when Feare from our hearts tooke
The very life; to be so thunder-strooke
With such a voice, and such a monster see.
But thus I answerd: Er'ing Grecians we,
From Troy were turning homewards; but by force
Of adverse winds, in far-diverted course,
Such unknowne waies tooke, and on rude seas tost,
(As Iove decreed) are cast upon this Coast.

>Pope
"'What are ye, guests? on what adventure, say,
Thus far ye wander through the watery way?
Pirates perhaps, who seek through seas unknown
The lives of others, and expose your own?'

"His voice like thunder through the cavern sounds;
My bold companions thrilling fear confounds,
Appall'd at sight of more than mortal man!
At length, with heart recover'd, I began:

"'From Troy's famed fields, sad wanderers o'er the main,
Behold the relics of the Grecian train:
Through various seas, by various perils toss'd,
And forced by storms, unwilling on your coast;
Far from our destined course and native land,
Such was our fate, and such high Jove's command!

>Lattimore
"Ha, strangers, who are you? Where do you come from, sailing the water ways? Are you upon some business? Or do you rove at random, as the pirates roam the seas, risking their lives and bringing ill to strangers?"

"As he thus spoke, our very souls were crushed within us, dismayed by the heavy voice and by the monster's self; nevertheless I answered thus and said:

"'We are from Troy, Achaeans, driven by shifting winds out of our course across the great gulf of the sea; homeward we fared, but through strange ways and wanderings are come hither; so Zeus was pleased to purpose."

>Fagles
'Strangers!' he thundered out, 'now who are you?
Where did you sail from, over the running sea-lanes?
Out on a trading spree or roving the waves like pirates,
sea-wolves raiding at will, who risk their lives
to plunder other men?'

The hearts inside us shook,
terrified by his rumbling voice and monstrous hulk.
Nevertheless I found the nerve to answer, firmly,
'Men of Achaea we are and bound now from Troy!
Driven far off course by the warring winds,
over the vast gulf of the sea — battling home
on a strange tack, a route that's off the map,
and so we've come to you ...
so it must please King Zeus's plotting heart.

>Wilson
‘Strangers! Who are you? Where did you come from
across the watery depths? Are you on business,
or roaming round without a goal, like pirates,
who risk their lives at sea to bring disaster
to other people?’
So he spoke. His voice,
so deep and booming, and his giant size,
made our hearts sink in terror. Even so,
I answered,
‘We are Greeks, come here from Troy.
The winds have swept us off in all directions
across the vast expanse of sea, off course
from our planned route back home. Zeus willed it so.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 17:18:05 2019 No.13987365 >>13980482 You think the classics are so great yet they can apparently be ruined by a single mediocre woman’s progressive translations that no one will care about in a few years?

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 17:21:06 2019 No.13987372 >>13987355 She's always the dull and boring one. Why's she so memed by academia is beyond me. She's not even the first women to translate the Odyssey, a French lady already did it in the 1700s.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 17:22:08 2019 No.13987377 >>13987365 It's a figure of speech you stupid autist.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 17:27:18 2019 No.13987397 >>13987372 She's basically the front for a certain academic clique.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 17:36:24 2019 No.13987437 >>13987355 even if you put aside the blatant political bias, her writing is just awful.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 17:39:09 2019 No.13987455 >OWC OH NO NO NO Oxford was supposed to be /lit/ bros...

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 18:33:11 2019 No.13987794 >>13987377 No, it’s imprecise speech. Baby brain.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 18:36:16 2019 No.13987807 >>13980697 Holy shit you're still alive. I used to post here in like 2014 and I remember you from then.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 18:40:56 2019 No.13987828 >>13987807 what was /lit/ like in 2014 as compated to now?

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 18:43:24 2019 No.13987845 >>13987828 Exactly the same.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 18:47:13 2019 No.13987856 >>13982077 >>13985340 >>13985580 Market it as a parody and shill it online and make it controversial. This could be a very good idea.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 18:48:10 2019 No.13987863 >>13987807 same 2013 for me >>13987828 Nothing like it was,there was genuine discussion and a lot of marxists.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 19:20:48 2019 No.13988018 >>13982077 write it in rhyming anapestic tetrameter and you've got a pretty good album.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 19:20:59 2019 No.13988020 >>13987856 we could do it collectively in a google doc

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 19:25:21 2019 No.13988038 >>13987863 >genuine discussion Maybe I misremember, but I remember 2014 /lit/ being filled with 90% low effort shitposts with the occasional cool post.

Anonymous Sun Oct 13 19:29:40 2019 No.13988058

>>13988038
ofc but that is a lot of content in the context of 4chan. There were threads where people actually read together, though they fell apart in a years time. I am drunk though, hence I am here , maybe I am beng nostalgic. But for sure it was less /pol/.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 19:32:14 2019 No.13988069 >>13988058 The whole internet was less /pol/ back then. I do miss those days.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 19:35:53 2019 No.13988094 >>13988069 I remember I actually read Marx, with real intent to understand because of those threads here. That is the greatest positive egfect the internet has had on me I think, even if it was just mental exercise.

>>	Anonymous Sun Oct 13 20:00:49 2019 No.13988182 >>13982077 Congrats you have justified /lit/'s existence for another day

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/lit/ - Literature