[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 68 KB, 900x750, ludwig-wittgenstein-2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13952865 No.13952865 [Reply] [Original]

Language is unreliable and unsuited to revealing Truth. Even in theology, describing Truth using the cartoon of language is like trying to assemble a working automobile using a toothpick. You are not equipped to understand or discover anything real.

So language is useless? Clearly it isn't. Clearly, in some circumstances, it can seem unambiguous. What, then, is its capacity? What is its role? Can we do anything but live, act, and think automatically? Are we finding ideas that are TRUE, or merely ideas that we like, because they SEEM true based on our limited experiences and understanding? And how can you tell the difference? In thousands of years, have we figured out everything we were able to in philosophy? Was any progress made? Is progress possible, and is it possible to tell? In whose hands is it now? Science?

>> No.13952889

He is wrong because any functionally complete system can convey any truth and language most certainly is.

>> No.13952893

>>13952865
Prove it.

>> No.13952911

>>13952865
>not making automobiles with toothpicks
with this, i no longer wonder why some men make ships in bottles

>> No.13952933

>>13952893
The problem with unfalsifiable claims is that, while impossible to disprove, they may still have a mountain of evidence supporting them., and they could be true.

>> No.13952940

>>13952933
Why?

>> No.13952949

>>13952865
True. But still is the best tool available at the moment.

>> No.13953211

>>13952949
What would be a better tool?

>> No.13953219

>>13952865
Revealing truth? Don't flatter yourself, human.

>> No.13953222

>>13953211
tubes we could send our direct thoughts through

>> No.13953224

How does Wittgenstein's language games not completely BTFO the dogmatist Islamists who say God speaks arabic?

>> No.13953253

Clearly there is no such thing as truth. That much fades away with even the slightest intelligent reading of philosophy. All we have is use value to achieve goals. What humanity should be doing is questioning what the whole point of this all is. What are we working towards and why? Why keep thinking and producing aimlessly. It seems as though the human project has simply been to be able to produce more and more power. But now that we have this much, to what end? This power we have is immense, we see its ceiling in Einstein's theories.

If we accept there is no one single Truth, then we can no longer keep making ourselves more powerful in the hope we find it.

>> No.13953259

>>13952865
Why would you pair this statement with someone who didn't believe it?

The entire body of W's later work was showing the utilitarian aspect of ordinary language and how language infuses social and environmental contexts.

>> No.13953263
File: 159 KB, 495x320, evil.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13953263

>>13953253
>let's destroy truth, that'll surely fix everything!

>> No.13953265

>>13953253
>Clearly there is no such thing as truth.
Not that we can discern with any certainty, but there very obviously IS truth - we are experiencing SOMETHING.

>> No.13953273

>>13953253
no such thing as truth, is that true?

>> No.13953298

>>13953253
Based anon on the right path.
Time to find the Ἓν"

>> No.13953308

>>13953224
>>>/pol/

>> No.13953353

>>13952889
Define "functionally complete" and "truth".

>> No.13953376

Its not binary, language has limits but can still adequately communicate more or less adequately within those limits. Typical examples of areas language cannot communicate is spirituality, paychedelics, complex feelings. Here metaphor is languages best shot.

>> No.13953381

>>13953273
I understand this basic refutation but im going to invoke the point that "Truth" has many meanings and I am simply positing that one does not exist because all evidence points to it and I believe it is useful and productive to think it.

I mean "truth" in the christian "through a glass darkly" kind. The socratic sense even. The idea that there is a state of being that is so all-seeing and knowledgeable to it no longer has questions, contradictions, doubts.

Yes I know there is still "truth" in that 1+1 is 2, electrons and protons attract, whatever. But this fundamental assumption of knowledge.. Logos.. seems to be misguided.

>> No.13953397

>>13953381
Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself!
(I am large, I contain multitudes)

>> No.13953400

>>13953381
"Ah yes I know that logos is true.. ah logos seems misguided"

You are part of the reason why none takes this place seriously

>> No.13953404
File: 33 KB, 500x483, 33979c402223dd81124f4bd49d263b4a.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13953404

>>13952865
>Language is unreliable and unsuited to revealing Truth.
Wrong.
>Even in theology, describing Truth using the cartoon of language is like trying to assemble a working automobile using a toothpick.
Wrong.
>You are not equipped to understand or discover anything real.
Projecting and also wrong.
>So language is useless? Clearly it isn't. Clearly, in some circumstances, it can seem unambiguous. What, then, is its capacity? What is its role? Can we do anything but live, act, and think automatically? Are we finding ideas that are TRUE, or merely ideas that we like, because they SEEM true based on our limited experiences and understanding? And how can you tell the difference? In thousands of years, have we figured out everything we were able to in philosophy? Was any progress made? Is progress possible, and is it possible to tell? In whose hands is it now? Science?
Gayboi questions.

>> No.13953410

>>13953404
>Wrong.
Wrong.
>Wrong.
Wrong.
>Gayboi questions.
true

>> No.13953441

>>13953253
>no such thing as truth
Glad to see someone who completely agrees with me again. It's amazing how good of a pleb filter this is. Truth is a cope for faggots who live inside their heads.

>> No.13953452

>>13953441
>>13953253
>Clearly there is no such thing as truth.
an inherent contradiction

>> No.13953454

>>13953397
>(I am large, I contain multitudes)
Do you also suck cock, like the guy who wrote that quote?

>> No.13953459

>>13953400
>>13953397
If your conception of reality is so great then why the fuck aint we figure it out yet. "Dont worry its coming."

>> No.13953464

>>13953459
whew. this is bait.