Antinatalism is just incel cope

[Anonymous No.13896567]

Prove me wrong

>but there's more potential for suffering than pleasure in life!
So, coward? Suffering isn't inherently evil. We aren't perpetual helpless infants. We can overcome struggle then triumph and bring something good to the world or at least just our lives.
>but suffering feels bad!!!
If existence is so painful, why don't you just kill yourself?

[Anonymous No.13896598]

>>13896567
スゴイ!!! Anon kun, you're so smart! All the 12 year olds who believe this shit are btfo'd forever!!

[Anonymous No.13896604]

>>13896598
Why did you write sugoi in katakana?

[Anonymous No.13896610]

>>13896604
Why do the Japanese write Ramen in katakana instead of just using the kanji?

[Anonymous No.13896617]

>>13896567
>guy at the top thinks life is worth living
>guy at the bottom doesn't

whoa really percolates those pistachios

[Anonymous No.13896628]

>>13896604
It's just a way to express a different feeling.
>>13896610
Ramen I think is from Korea, and they usually wrote foreign words in katakana.

[Anonymous No.13896672]

>>13896617
The guy at the bottom is working for his family and has a purpose in life, he's doing fine.
The guy at the top is the faggot who lazes around all day and thinks procreating is unethical because dude life is meaningless lmao

[Anonymous No.13897508]

>>13896672
I'm at the "bottom" and I think life is horrifyingly meaningless and worthless. To be fair though, I don't have a family and I don't want one.

[Anonymous No.13897532]

>>13896617
people at bottom breed more though

[Anonymous No.13897665]

>>13897532
Yeah dude. Millionaires, celebrities and powerful people never have big families.

[Anonymous No.13897710]

>>13897508
>>I'm at the "bottom"
Sweet summer child.

[Anonymous No.13897715]

>>13897665
>never have big families
Not as big as Jamal's or Pablo's
/lit/ is so ful

[Anonymous No.13897719]

>>13897710
Can you be less cryptic please

[Anonymous No.13897724]

>>13897665
Yes but there is not many millionaires are there?

[Anonymous No.13897763]

>>13896567
I'm antinatalist because kids are a massive financial, time, and energy burden and for most people they are simply pets for the first few years, and then when the cuteness wears off they get bored and dont want to deal with them anymore. So they give the kid an iPad or something and let someone else raise their kid. I promote anti-natalism for everyone but myself.

[Anonymous No.13897778]

>>13896567
The term “incel” and all of its connotations are desperate cope to begin with.

White liberals in the West have pushed for a degenerate “sex positive” society and gotten it.

The result is that now everyone is having less sex, fewer relationships, fewer children, and fewer intact families.

So desperate is everyone to claim that thy are not suffering from a malaise that is objectively their fault that they will actually admit point blank to being it’s perpetrators. Fixing the problem is out of the question because the only way is to undo decades of liberal “victories” in destroying civilisation.

[Anonymous No.13897788]

>>13896567
I literally can't argue with that, I agree, have the same view on it. Although I'd add that there's a stubborn atheist element to it too.

It's basically repulsive Thomas Ligotti-looking guys angry at fate being all "THE UNIVERSE IS COLD AND EVILLL, EMBRACE DEATH" because they're angry at God. I'd actually sympathize with them except that they're actively pushing toxic suicidal attitudes to other guys who might do better of not for that attitude.

Like that's why I can't get behind that Fisher asshole - I can't support someone who promotes coldness or suicidal depressiveness. And his thought always had that as an innate part of its outlook, and his suicide was a more-or-less inevitable outcome.

[Anonymous No.13897791]

>>13897788
That was messily written because i was half paying attention to other things but you get the idea.

[Anonymous No.13897798]

>>13896567
Ok, I'm still getting a vasectomy.

[Anonymous No.13897801]

i am a genetic abomination (asthma, ugly, heart problems, mediocre or less in everything else) and even if the child didn't inherit my genetics it'd still become an abomination because of my parenting. literally every single minor thing you do as a parent will affect your child's psyche thus his entire life and future. at the end human is driven by senses and emotions no matter how much he tries to suppress this with rationality and science. and as a human i don't want to make someone else (humanity and my child) suffer.
since you browse this website and bother to argue with someone online there is a 95% chance you are on the same boat of inferiority so yeah

[Anonymous No.13897848]

>>13896567
>We aren't perpetual helpless infants.
But you were a helpless infant once. You made it to adulthood by sheer luck. If you had been born in some third-world shithole you might have been raped, murdered, and harvested for organs before you had grown pubic hair. You live in this delusion that, since you were lucky enough to have a semi-decent life, everyone can get one if they try hard enough.

>We can overcome struggle then triumph and bring something good to the world or at least just our lives.
The greatest hurdle you have ever overcome is your slow metabolism in the morning. What good have you brought to the world? And again, if there were no people, there would be no need to worry about anyone's well-being. People who don't exist aren't missing out on anyhting since they don't exist, whereas people who do exist run the very likely risk of experiencing much more suffering than pleasure. And no, you don't get anything much in return for suffering; that's the real cope: to believe that there was meaning in your suffering, to believe that "God works in mysterious ways".

>If existence is so painful, why don't you just kill yourself?
Killing yourself is also painful and potentially dangerous since you might botch it and end up being alive and more miserable than before because of permanent damage. Why do you think so many rich fucks are against state-sponsored euthanasia? Do you think these well-meaning philantropists care so much for people that they don't want to see them offing themselves? They just don't want to give the average joe an easy way out. If the average joe could easily and safely off himself through euthanasia, many people would do it, and there would be nobody left to slave away for Mr Shekelstein.

[Anonymous No.13897855]

>>13897848
I agree with you, but the "s-suicide can go wrong" is a shit argument desu. If you truly wanted to kys yourself you could easily do it, there's infinite ways to kys with almost mathematical precision. Admit it that once you're born you might as well live it to the end.

[Anonymous No.13897860]

>>13896567
Everything everyone does is a cope, so let's stop trying to identify all the copes.

[Anonymous No.13897861]

>>13897798
Nobofy cares

[Anonymous No.13897862]

>>13897855
Suicide can and does go wrong. And whenever someone finds an apparently good and easy way to commit suicide (like the helium exit bags that were popular some time ago) the powers that be will try to make it harder for you to get what you need.

Just as you don't perform surgery at home because things can go wrong, by the same token it would be much more reliable to die with the assistance of medical specialists who know what they're doing and can safely kill you.

[Anonymous No.13897866]

>>13897855
I, and I suspect many others, am still alive purely because there are people who love us that we don't want to destroy. If no one loved me I'd do it tonight. If I ever need a reminder why I just look up something like the toolbox killers or some random cartel murder and realise that having a pizza and a beer on a friday night doesn't balance the cosmic scales of pleasure and pain. I think it was Schopenhauer who said the pain of the animal being eaten will always far outweigh the pleasure of the animal doing the eating. If you can attempt to imagine yourself being eaten alive I'm sure you'd conclude the same.

[Anonymous No.13897877]

the longer we are alive the greater the chance that some great horror of the universe will befall us

[Anonymous No.13897880]

>>13897848
People like you are probably smart enough to do suicide the correct way. Dying is better than existing in a place you don't want to exist in. Most will go on living no matter how much they hate it. Dying to a negative perspective or dying to rid yourself of a seemingly inescapable prison are both noble. If the game is now no longer fun then why play it till you feel sick and get the carpel tunnel syndrome?

[Anonymous No.13897882]

>>13897866
Normies are incapable to empathize with eaten animals. They believe that since they were able to have a "good" life (or so they think) then everyone else can. Most likely the eaten animal just didn't try hard enough to bootstrap himself into survival.

[Anonymous No.13897914]

>>13897866
True. But once you decide you don't wanna and start rotting away you might eventually hate yourself even more because you become a parasite to your family cause all you do is try to sleep your life away. So then death starts looking nicer. That is my experience thus far. Homelessness is the next step but that leads to a lot of suffering, so death becomes more and more acceptable.

[Anonymous No.13897926]

>>13896567
>So, coward? Suffering isn't inherently evil. We aren't perpetual helpless infants. We can overcome struggle then triumph and bring something good to the world or at least just our lives.
based

[Anonymous No.13897933]

>>13897880
>People like you are probably smart enough to do suicide the correct way.
One should never overestimate oneself. And personally I don't deem my life bad enough to justify my suicide. I promote the idea of state-sponsored euthanasia because I'm sure I will need it at some point (so I might just go to Switzerland if it comes down to it). I don't have any good reason to live, but I don't have a reason to die either, so I go on by inertia. But considering how things play out in this world, it is probably only a matter of time before life becomes so unbearable that suicide will start to seem like a better option than inertia.

>If the game is now no longer fun then why play it till you feel sick and get the carpel tunnel syndrome?
As Cioran put it, it's always too late for suicide. Once you're born, you're born. The positive, actively pursued deed of ending your life is (rather paradoxically) life-affirming. The negative, passive deed of not being born is quite different. The /r9k/-tier NEET that goes on living by inertia without any great expectations or ambitions is much less life-affirming than the normie who kills himself because he didn't get accepted into his dream college.

[Anonymous No.13897937]

>>13897914
also currently experiencing this. family dont just want you alive, you need to be functioning as well. no point being a sickly alcoholic that borrows money from his dad every fortnight and can't summon the willpower to work a job

[Anonymous No.13897943]

>>13896567
What if someone is born in a state where they can't triumph over their struggles alone (perhaps due to illnesses or disabilities)?. Why does it make someone a coward if they believe life isn't worth living because there's more potential for suffering than pleasure? If that's right, and you could go back in time to choose your own birth and say yes, then you'd be getting a bad deal. Even if you triumph over some struggles, you're likely to end up with net suffering in the end, as opposed to picking non-existence.

>If existence is so painful, why don't you just kill yourself?
although the state of being dead means the end of worldly suffering, dying involves suffering for yourself and others around you, just like living involves suffering. If committing suicide were easy, people wouldn't have serious second thoughts about it. Since living and dying both involve suffering, it's best to not be born.

striving to triumph over struggles and bringing something good to world, like you said, is a good thing. it helps to decrease the amount of human suffering in the world for those who currently exist. but creating new life by having kids increases the amount of human suffering in the world. so if having kids increases the total amount of suffering, and the purpose of triumphing over struggles is to decrease the amount of suffering, why have kids at all?

>>13896672
I assume the guy at the bottom who's working for his family decided to have kids so they would give his life meaning. although raising kids involves sacrifice and selflessness, having them is selfish. in order to reduce the suffering in his life by having kids which gave him meaning, he also created new suffering through the kid(s) his wife bore. this kid will have to struggle through life, in which happiness isn't guaranteed, to find meaning, to compete for opportunities and resources, and eventually die.

[Anonymous No.13897957]

>>13897943
>What if someone is born in a state where they can't triumph over their struggles alone (perhaps due to illnesses or disabilities)?
nobody can triumph over their struggles alone, if anything everybody has to rely on somebody else at least for the first 5 years, most people do for all their lives either on other people or on the government, you can still go live alone in the forest, but even then you have to rely on the regularity of nature. just because you always have help doesn't mean it's bad

[Anonymous No.13897991]

>>13897957
it can be both good and bad in different ways. it can be good because it can give people meaning to care for someone else. but it would be bad if those caretakers saw the person who's relying on them as a burden. it can also be bad if the person who requires the help suffers from unfulfilled desires due to a lack of independence.

[Anonymous No.13898249]

>>13896567
>NNNOOOOOO YOU CANT CALL ANTINATALISTS INCELS JUST BECAUSE THEY LOOK LIKE ONES!!

[Anonymous No.13898261]

>>13896628
Did you post in a thread detailing your daily shedule a while back? I remember one guy saying he was learning japanese and thought that might have been you.

[Anonymous No.13898307]

>>13897861
op cares enough to make this shitty thread with no argument

[Anonymous No.13898323]

>>13897719
You're not at the fucking bottom. Unless You're a hobo leeching a fucking wi-fi connection from the middle of the streets while It rains, the last scraps of your McDollar menu having been pissed on by an angry dog, your ass ravaged by Jamal's cock for the latest heroine dose and your red bull having been tampered with LSD by a medical students that wants to abduct you and slice you open in the obituary to take a good look at your massive tumors -reasoning that you have hours to live at most anyway- Then You're not at the fucking bottom.

[Anonymous No.13898332]

>>13897933
>>If the game is now no longer fun then why play it till you feel sick and get the carpel tunnel syndrome?
As Cioran put it, it's always too late for suicide. Once you're born, you're born. The positive, actively pursued deed of ending your life is (rather paradoxically) life-affirming. The negative, passive deed of not being born is quite different. The /r9k/-tier NEET that goes on living by inertia without any great expectations or ambitions is much less life-affirming than the normie who kills himself because he didn't get accepted into his dream college.
I disagree with your worldview, and with Schopy, but I agree with you and Schopy on this. In the end there are three groups on this debate
>christians/religious
>schopy
>neetche
This is a gross overgeneralization but you see it in this thread, and all the others about this topic.

[Anonymous No.13898343]

>>13898332
>it's always too late for suicide
literally sunk cost fallacy

[Anonymous No.13898345]

>>13898343
I didn't write that, the anon I was replying to did

[Anonymous No.13898491]

>>13896567
>So, coward? Suffering isn't inherently evil. We aren't perpetual helpless infants. We can overcome struggle then triumph and bring something good to the world or at least just our lives.
Dumbass, not everyone is an equally capable protagonist with an equal amount of free will, even the army doesn't want 15% of the population.
>If existence is so painful, why don't you just kill yourself?
>implying people don't kill themselves
>implying death hasn't already occurred at the moment of birth
>implying the act of overcoming your biological imperative is a matter of simple arithmetic
>implying I will be alive in a few days to tell you what a fuckhead you are

[Anonymous No.13898638]

>>13896567
i realized the only reason i want a gf or a kid is to neutralize the intense meaninglessness I experience on a daily basis. i just don't wanna be alone anymore. I dream about hugging and sex with an imaginary girl almost every night lately. It's become pure torture at this point, I can't go on like this. I'm too socially retarded to get to this level of intimacy with a girl, I wanna jump out a window, fuck

[Anonymous No.13898655]

[Anonymous No.13898683]

>>13898638
most of my social anxiety, I think stems from the discrepancy between the way I speak and the way I act. I'm horrible at practical tasks and problem solving, clumsy etc. When I talk to people however, I'm usually quite eloquent and give off an air of faux intelligence that causes them to expect more of me than I'm able to provide. I'm hyper-aware of this lately. It has caused me not to talk to people so as to not set expectations I can't meet. I'm avoiding the problem basically, but I don't know how to deal with it otherwise. I'm simply not sharp enough to be around the people who understand me on a verbal level.

[Anonymous No.13898697]

>>13897866
>If I ever need a reminder why I just look up something like the toolbox killers or some random cartel murder and realise that having a pizza and a beer on a friday night doesn't balance the cosmic scales of pleasure and pain.

Goddamn so fucking based, I do the same thing. It gets exhausting man

[Anonymous No.13898704]

>>13897866
I agree with you 110% and it's a shame because even if the people who loved me weren't in the picture, I can see myself at least living somewhat contentedly by myself but even living a quiet life of seclusion is impossible anywhere within 100 miles of a city if you don't want to wageslave

[Anonymous No.13898715]

I get this sensation all the time. Think of squashing a bug. You reach down and miss, and the bug runs away. It's there, running, trying to survive (for what purpose?). It has a will to live. And then it's snuffed out of existence. Why does any of this exist? Why should any of this exist?

[Anonymous No.13898726]

>>13898715
So it could, and that answer was a satisfactory one for thousands of years before jews and boomers (read: hylics in expensive suits) raised their hand

[Anonymous No.13898764]

>>13898726
>So it could
nature is unaware of suffering, it's completely unaware of animals being eaten alive or being diseased, because only successful genes are passed on, the experience of suffering and death is always lost, so nature is blind to it, the only difference is that some humans, unlike you, now have the cognitive ability to see this

[Anonymous No.13898770]

>>13898764
This is true, which is why our ancestors would (ideally) have recognized their place and function in this gigantic blind autophagic machine and respected the soul of every creature whose life they took

[Anonymous No.13898831]

>>13898770
it's easier to kill something outside of yourself, than yourself

[Anonymous No.13898840]

>"Although suffering moves me and sometimes even delights me, never could I write the apologia of suffering because long-lasting suffering -and all genuine suffering is long-lasting- though purifying in its first phases, unhinges the reason, dulls the senses and finally destroys. Facile enthusiasm for suffering is professed only be aesthetes and dilettantes of suffering, those who mistake it for entertainment and who do not understand that there is in suffering both a poison, a formidable destructive energy, and a rich fertility dearly paid for..."