/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.13893842]

Is there anyone like Roger Scruton but respectable? Specifically the shitting on modern art part.

[Anonymous No.13893849]

Roger Scrotum kek

[Anonymous No.13893862]

IT'S TIME FOR US ALL TO LAUGH AT CONSERVATIVES WHO DON'T ADDRESS THE ETHNIC DIMENSION!

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!

[Anonymous No.13893863]

>>13893862
This is an art thread retard no politics

[Anonymous No.13893866]

>>13893842
Jean Clair is an authentic art historian known for his controversial opinions on contemporary art.

[Anonymous No.13893892]

How many books by Scruton have you read, from cover to cover?

[Anonymous No.13893915]

Never read Scruton. Why isn't he respectable?

[Anonymous No.13893923]

>>13893862
>his smile and optmism: gone

[Anonymous No.13893925]

>>13893842

Tom Wolfe had some harsh words for modern architecture. Read his 'From Bauhaus to Our House'.

[Anonymous No.13893927]

>>13893915
He's okay. He's like the conservative version of Christopher Hitchens or something, maybe a notch above that because his principles aren't quite as outdated as Hitchens' brand of le reddit atheism ca. 2004.

He's sometimes mocked because he once took payola to shill for a cigarette company, and some people dislike him because he's just a paleocon, he is not an ethnonationalist or anything. He's not even as high tory as they come.

[Anonymous No.13893928]

>>13893925
Already read him but I don't think he counts as respectable either.

[Anonymous No.13893929]

>>13893915
Because OP is a left-winger and an American, I assume?

Scruton is very respected by many, specially in Europe and here in South America.

[Anonymous No.13893939]

>>13893928
>I don't think he counts as respectable either

How can such a well dressed man be deemed unrespectable?

[Anonymous No.13893946]

>>13893929
I literally said nothing about his politics. He isn't respectable because his teachings boil down to "modern art bad here look at this picture of a triangle post modernism building see its bad." Obviously modern art is bad that's why I'm asking for respectable thinkers who don't just say it's bad because this photo is ugly.

[Anonymous No.13893947]

[Anonymous No.13893949]

>>13893927
He is not like Hitchens. Have you read his work? He made relevant contributions to conservative philosophy as well as to aesthetics (specially in music - he's an opera composer - and in architecture).

He worked in academia for many years, writing articles and books for many very respected philosophy publications and publishers. Hitchens, as far as I know, was merely a journalist who became a writer.

Scruton is also a specialist on Kant and Spinoza, having written books about both.

[Anonymous No.13893953]

>>13893939
He has a really nice smile for a writer. Not often you see that. Looks very friendly.

[Anonymous No.13893963]

>>13893946
You probably only watched his documentary, which is quite mediocre, because it is directed at a very large audience (a technique which did work from a propaganda/persuasion point of view, since the doc became very popular, but is not good intellectual solidity).

Anyway, you clearly show you've never read him, because Scruton is *not at all* against modern art.

In fact, he is a modern artist himself, and his greatest intellectual influence is T.S. Eliot.

[Anonymous No.13893970]

>>13893842
why dont you respect him, i watched some of his documentaries about it and they were not bad.

[Anonymous No.13893978]

The only thing I don't really like about him is the obnoxiously long chapters.

[Anonymous No.13893987]

>>13893963
You get what I mean. Don't play dumb and no I watched his lectures but anyways I wouldn't read him because there is no point people would just laugh at me. He is a tier above Christopher Hitchens but he is still close enough that he isn't respectable.

[Anonymous No.13893988]

This is the final word on art.

[Anonymous No.13894040]

>>13893987
Read his books before judging him. That's a basic rule of intellectual decency.

Scruton is admired by many who disagree with him about most things. He's been praised by Nussbaum, Havel, even Julie Bindel.

[Anonymous No.13894059]

>>13894040
It doesn't matter what you or I think if all the smart academics people will laugh at me. Do you know of anyone else?

[Anonymous No.13894077]

>>13894059
they are already laughing at you for being a beta who submits to authority

[Anonymous No.13894086]

>>13894059
Maybe they aren't that smart, then.

Anyway, Salvador Dali has a little book trashing modern art. Same for Tom Wolfe, who has two. They're funny, but not as serious as those of Scruton, though they make some very sound points too.

[Anonymous No.13894154]

>>13894086
Is there really no one with a phd who shits on modern art I've made this thread like 4 times and never got an answer

[Anonymous No.13894160]

>>13894077
They don't know I'm beta unless I tell them but if I say I like Roger Scruton they think I'm midwit

[Anonymous No.13894169]

Is there a better version of the Beauty doc online? 360p is shit.
And is the book good?

[Anonymous No.13894178]

>>13894154
Why would you expect a relevant PhD to shit all over the field he dedicated his life too?

[Anonymous No.13894187]

>>13894178
There are Marxist economists I'm sure there would be at least a few art historians who hate the triangle buildings.

[Anonymous No.13894194]

>>13894154
See >>13893866

[Anonymous No.13894205]

>>13894194
I forgot to respond to you. I couldn't find anything like what I asked for in english. Am I just bad at searching?

[Anonymous No.13894214]

You'll love Jacques Barzun.

[Anonymous No.13894225]

>>13894205
He's French and I doubt he's very well known outside of artistic circles. Not sure he's been translated to English.

[Anonymous No.13894235]

>>13894214
I'd say start with his "The Culture We Deserve".

[Anonymous No.13894245]

>>13894235
Thanks. I'll try this. I tried to read From Dawn to Decadence a while ago but it was too intense for me.

[Anonymous No.13894260]

>>13894154
Why do you care about a phd? Maybe it meant something 100 years ago, not anymore.

[Anonymous No.13894269]

>>13894260
You're more likely to get something of worth from someone who dedicate their entire life in studying it. The people who aren't academics usually have holes in the arguments or the history.

[Anonymous No.13895285]

bump

[Anonymous No.13895514]

>>13893862
Not a single kid there I would save from drowning in a river. Shame.

[Anonymous No.13895516]

>>13895514
probably part of the reason you will die alone

[Anonymous No.13895555]

>>13895516
You're probably right. I don't know what made me so cold and bitter.

[Anonymous No.13895569]

>>13893987
Hahaha you're a fucking embarrassment, man. Off yourself.

[Anonymous No.13895580]

>>13895569
What if you told someone to off themselves and then they actually did?

[Anonymous No.13895587]

>>13893842
why do you want to shit on modern art?

[Anonymous No.13895611]

people never read scruton. they just assume he is some sort of larper, but he is a genuine man

[Anonymous No.13895651]

>>13893862
The reason real conservatives ignore the ethnic question is because they are actually conservative; they’re not involved in the game of taxonomizing every facet of reality for the sake of generating research and utility, unlike all other modern cringelords who have inherited their epistemology with academia without thinking critically about it.

[Anonymous No.13895715]

>>13895587
It's bad and now there is no good art because of it.

[Anonymous No.13895932]

i like picasso

[Anonymous No.13895963]

>>13895715
Explain

[Anonymous No.13895986]

>>13895963
Art back then had many good. Art now has almost 0.

[Anonymous No.13895990]

>>13894160
>caring about what academics think of you
for what pvrpose

[Anonymous No.13896916]

bump

[Anonymous No.13897432]

>>13894269
You're more likely to get tricked.

[Anonymous No.13897472]

>>13895651
nonsensical commie gobbledygook

[Anonymous No.13897473]

>>13895651
Hmmm... Yet conservatives have conserved nothing; they are always on the defensive and losing ground. Then you get to recent decades where 'conservatives' are just a slightly different shade of neoliberal.

Perhaps if they'd paid more attention to all facets of reality (which somehow isn't thinking critically), they wouldn't be completely irrelevant now.

[Anonymous No.13897479]

>>13893987
>there is no point people would just laugh at me

Allowing others to dictate your intellectual pursuits is pretty faggy desu.

[Anonymous No.13897526]

>>13897473
>Hmmm... Yet conservatives have conserved nothing

My hope is that at some point normie conservatives will finally see the leaders of the movement are not actually interested in advancing that ideology. For instance, how many times am I supposed to believe (insert random con on Twitter) is completely shocked when the left does something inflammatory?

Hell, a perfect example of how useless they are is the lack of accomplishments when they controlled every branch of the government. I mean, Trump moved the embassy for the Israel firsters and cut some taxes, but that's it. It's a pitiful ideology manned by pitiful leaders.

[Anonymous No.13897604]

>>13897479
Telling people you enjoy reading Jordan Peterson just outs yourself as a retard and someone you should stay away from. Do you want to be that guy?

[JEWS No.13897610]

>>13893842
Adolphus Hilterus

[Anonymous No.13897623]

Trick question, no one respectable shits on modern art because no one believes the metaphysical horseshit behind "beauty is meaningful"

[Anonymous No.13897644]

>>13897604
Reading Jordan Peterson doesn't necessarily mean you subscribe to his outlook or enjoy reading it.

Also, is it not beneficial to familiarize yourself with the ideas that amassed him such a large following?

[Anonymous No.13897671]

>>13897526
I agree, and that is my hope as well. Unfortunately, I suspect that normies won't make that change until their standard of living suffers more dramatically.

For now, we just have to build small 'red-pilled' communities to whatever extent is possible and continue sowing our seeds of influence.

[Anonymous No.13897694]

>>13897623
We are the valuing agents -- we decide what has value and meaning because it is our nature to do so. If I think what someone values reflects poorly upon THEIR nature, I will shit upon them and their value system all day -- no metaphysical justification required.

[Anonymous No.13897700]

>>13897694
>because it is our nature to do so
>no metaphysical justification required

C'mon man

[Anonymous No.13897713]

>>13897700
You think nature is metaphysical (or anything)? What does 'metaphysical' even really mean? My claim is ontological, I'm saying we value things beings it is our nature to express preferences. Try to keep up.

[Anonymous No.13897789]

>>13897713
>ontology
>not metaphysics

[Anonymous No.13897873]

>>13897789
Meaningless. What additional specificity do we confer on the term 'ontology' by making it a subset of 'metaphysics'? Ontology is already the study of existence... Do you think there something we can study not contained within existence?

[Anonymous No.13898376]

>>13893947
based mogg

[Anonymous No.13898461]

>>13894154
You have no one with a phd who shits on modern art because treating modern art like a monolith is a brainlet position.

I am surprised so many people on this board even approve of Scruton's take, since he does not think art ended after 1900 and does not seem to think that the word kitsch is cultural marxist conspiracy.

>However, to avoid kitsch is not so easy as it looks. You could try being outrageously avant-garde, doing something that no one would have thought of doing and calling it art — perhaps trampling on some cherished ideal or religious feeling. But as I argued last week, this way also leads to fakes — fake originality, fake significance, and a new kind of cliche, as in so much Young British Art. You can pose as a modernist, but that won't necessarily lead you to achieve what Eliot, Schoenberg or Matisse achieved, which is to touch the modern heart in its deepest regions. Modernism is difficult. It requires competence in an artistic tradition, and the art of departing from tradition in order to say something new.

[Anonymous No.13898470]

>>13898461
That painting looks like an instagram picture with a photoshop filter applied to it.

[Anonymous No.13898482]

If you want some good shitting on postmodernism it doesn't get better than Robert Hughes.

Also, read Fredric Jameson if you want the best analysis of postmodern aesthetics

[Anonymous No.13898551]

>>13897873
I'm not willing to get into a discussion on metaphysics sorry

[Anonymous No.13898559]

>>13895611
>people never read
You've cracked the secret of /lit/

[Anonymous No.13899248]

>>13897644
I didn't say you can't read him I said you can't tell people you like his work.

[Anonymous No.13899995]

>>13893842
I have the utmost respect for Scruton. His writings on aesthetics are superb.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHw4MMEnmpc

[Anonymous No.13900446]

>>13894154
You might be interested in John Canaday:
https://www.theartstory.org/critic/canaday-john/

Not a PhD, but he was a prominent art critic and wrote several books (which are better credentials in this context than a PhD -- this isn't high energy physics we're talking about). He took a dim view of abstract expressionism and other trends in modern art.

He received significant backlash from the art community for his stance (shocker), and this no doubt remains the paradigm today, so it isn't surprising that we don't see much mainstream/'authoritative' rejection of modern art elements. The art world at large appears to have fully and enthusiastically embraced relativism, and to fundamentally challenge that would be considered apostasy.

>>13894214
Good rec. 'The Use and Abuse of Art' is insightful.

[Anonymous No.13901475]

>>13893842
Only the tobacco enthusiasts respect him.

[Anonymous No.13901515]

>>13894187
>There are Marxist economists
they're unemployed

[Anonymous No.13901542]

>>13901515
No they aren't?

[Anonymous No.13903324]

last bump