/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.13881134]

Ive just read homage to catalonia and it kills me that were missing out on what once was workers paradise.
If only they hadnt been beaten by franco...

[Anonymous No.13881141]

>>13881134
Sadly most people on /lit/ would have sided with Franco.

[Anonymous No.13881142]

>>13881134
>you will never sit in a foxhole in 1936 freezing your balls off, you're Chassepot rifle and stale bread being your only companion for the night.

why even live bros

[Anonymous No.13881152]

>>13881134
Very good book. Orwell had a sardonic wit and dry humor that isn't shown at all in the two books he is known most for (1984 & Animal Farm). I found it amusing how matter of factly he describes getting shot through the neck, or how how some of the bombs sailed so slowly through the air you felt that you could jog beside them. This guy walked it and talked it and fought for his beliefs.

[Anonymous No.13881216]

>>13881152
It's sad his memoirs are as overshadowed as they are. This Book, Road to Wigan Pier, and Down and Out in Paris and London are so fucking good.

[Anonymous No.13881223]

>>13881216
His essays are good too. I drew lots of value from Politics and the English Language too. Still as relevant as ever even the setting has changed.

[Anonymous No.13881234]

>>13881142
Just go get lost in the woods in winter with bread

[Anonymous No.13881237]

>>13881141

That isn't a sad thing at all. The right side won. I'd like to kick your teeth in.

[Anonymous No.13881240]

why couldnt we do like you know.
top down anarchism.
A government gets in power, they give the worker the means of production and money is replaced with labor vouchers.
Also keep the military so we dont pwned.

[Anonymous No.13881241]

>>13881141
>>13881134
Kill yourselves

[Anonymous No.13881243]

>>13881134
Man, fuck you, stupid foreigner fuck. Por favor no te metas más en los asuntos de España. Deja nuestro país en paz ya. Los extranjeros siempre nos han caído fatal. Disgusting retards. Coming to our country to kill good men, born and raised here following long-established Spanish customs and traditions. You and everyone like you should be ashamed. Stay in your own countries and mind your fucking business. Or else I guess you'll just end up taking bullets to the neck and coping for the rest of your lives by writing shit novels that only faggot retards will like.

[Anonymous No.13881247]

I loved it when i first read it as a kid, almost as an adventure story, not knowing the first thing about Spain or who Franco was, it may have been my first grownup book.

[Anonymous No.13881253]

>>13881243

[Anonymous No.13881261]

>>13881243
It's your own damn fault. Even after winning you acted like bunch of retards. Had you behaved better then the world wouldn't have had to come over with it cane and knock your fucking teeth in.

[Anonymous No.13881275]

>>13881261
>the world wouldn't have had to come over with it cane and knock your fucking teeth in.
Never happened. Instead we just had a lot of dead foreigners in the streets.
>Even after winning you acted like bunch of retards.
To be clear, I'm not a Francoist. I'm a Carlist. Franco wasn't the best option for Spain, but he was better than the atheist republicans killing our clergy and actively working to destroy all Spanish traditions, customs, and ways of life. They wanted to neuter Spain of its hispanicity. Fuck them.

[Anonymous No.13881283]

>>13881275
>I'm a Carlist.

[Anonymous No.13881287]

>>13881283
Carlism is still alive and dozens of Carlist books are published yearly in Spain. You wouldn't know that though.

[Anonymous No.13881290]

>>13881275
>To be clear, I'm not a Francoist. I'm a Carlist.
Holy based, as a anglophone I wish I still had a Catholic monarch to stand for.

[Anonymous No.13881296]

>>13881287
>A bunch of faggot retards make books every year.

my bad anon, keep up the good fight

[Anonymous No.13881304]

Republican retards wanted to destroy this. They managed to halt its construction, but in the end, it still stands and is nearly finished in its construction.

REMINDER that republicans were just atheist spergs who hated all beauty, differentiation, and hierarchy. Literally just spawns of judeo-masonic propaganda who got BTFO'd hard. They weren't Spaniards; they were zombies, aided by a bunch of misinformed or else mentally deformed foreigners, who wanted to destroy churches and families and replace them with sweaty international LGBT favelas. FUCK YOU IF YOU SYMPATHIZE WITH THEM.

[Anonymous No.13881312]

>>13881296
I'm not saying Carlism will become mainstream again, it's more likely that some populist rightwing movement will. My point is that Carlism is still an active political tradition in Spain with thousands of adherents and it's still capable of influencing Spanish politics. You don't want to know how many Spanish professors are Carlists. The number would astound you. And their literature is widely read and fruitful.

[Anonymous No.13881314]

>>13881304
youre the first spaniard that ive known that wasnt an atheist and ive met a few irl

[Anonymous No.13881317]

>>13881304
Your glorious defenders of the bourgeoisie also bombed women and children, and raped their way across Spain. Idk how you don't see the Autism in justifying that by the construction of a church. true heroes.

[Anonymous No.13881318]

>>13881304

All politics and religion aside, it's an architecturally and aesthetically hideous building, along the lines of a reddit-tier Frank Gehry monstrosity.. I don't mean to defend your alleged Republican urge to knock it down (which I should look up). I'm simply and correctly stating that the building itself is clearly ugly, that's all-in the way that organisms are regularly ugly. The soft, organic lines of the building itself lend themselves to this ugliness, which is happily overcome by a Notre Dame or a similarly ornate (though more angular, and therefore superior) Köln.

[Anonymous No.13881322]

>>13881237
It's sad because it's so remarkably idiotic to side with a dictator, especially such a bad one.

[Anonymous No.13881329]

>>13881304
Christ, that's a hideous building. It's even uglier in person, truly a monstrosity.

[Anonymous No.13881330]

Reminder the Republicans were based. Orwell's friends in the P.O.U.M were also based. Regardless of where you stand, he took up arms and fought for his beliefs, you all sit on your computers jacking off to hentai. Who is the real sperg?

[Anonymous No.13881338]

>>13881314
Yeah, sadly the youth have lost their religion formation, but this is mostly due to the post-Francoist democratic malaise. Same thing has happened to any country that has embraced liberal democracy. The old people are still mostly religious though. The upper classes as well. If you meet a rich kid in Spain, chances are he will be Catholic still. I'm not rich, I just have a good family.
>>13881317
The only justification for Francoism was that the alternative was much worse; that doesn't justify Francoism on its own terms, meaning one can and should critique Francoism. It only justifies when coupled with its enemy, which was worse. A true case of lesser of two evils.

[Anonymous No.13881348]

>>13881330
>he took up arms and fought for his beliefs
The minute he picked up his arms to fire his weapon he got BTFO'd by a sniper. Truly got cucked. Then spent his whole life coping about this by writing fantasy novels trying to romanticize the five seconds of glory he had marching straight into a bullet. Embarrassing.

[Anonymous No.13881367]

>>13881243
Rojopillado de cojones!

[Anonymous No.13881375]

>>13881330
>Regardless of where you stand, he took up arms and fought for his beliefs
Following This fuvking reasoning, All your muslim friends should go join ISIS or you'll have to condemn them as spergs.

[Anonymous No.13881410]

>>13881322

your relative judgment of dictators is poor: relative to a Mao, or a Pot, or a Stalin, or even a Gaddafi (who had the temerity to write a very stupid book-have you read it? Do you really know your dictators?), Franco was quite liveable. Better, he vindicated a limited fascist victory on the Continent past the war.

[Anonymous No.13881414]

>>13881338

Losing religion isn't sad at all. the more I read this thread, the more I cherish the idea of an atheistic fascism, which finds purchase in Spain.

[Anonymous No.13881478]

Franco did nothing wrong. When he died Spain went to shit and never recovered

[Anonymous No.13881496]

i dont know what i dislike more.
capitalism or the feminazi homoglobo.
Oh no wait i do know.
The feminazi homoglomo.
imagine fighting so roasties can fuck chads and tyrones without having to worry about money.
Thatd be peak cuckery.

[Anonymous No.13881551]

>>13881496
>Basing your political views off of your virginity

[Anonymous No.13881561]

>>13881496
forget about all of this and become a fun anarchosyndicalist

[Anonymous No.13881653]

>>13881322
>dictator bad

[Anonymous No.13881655]

>>13881134
Did you read the book? Their paradise had degenerated back to what it was before Franco arrived.

[Anonymous No.13881698]

>>13881237
Remember the time you lost that war and your leader killed himself in a bunker? Good times.

[Anonymous No.13881845]

>>13881134
Spaniard here.

You are retarded, the leftists commited mass murder of nuns and clergymen, including rape and pillaging. They were a bunch of uneducated retards that didn't know how to write or read, there were swayed by empty promises of a failed system: the second republic.

Franco and Spaniards who were fed up by the incompetence of such system stepped in and rejuvenated Spain in its whole. You're retarded and your marxist propaganda is stale.

Viva Franco

[Anonymous No.13881846]

>>13881261
Lol what are you even saying you braindead cuck, no one came over and knocked anything, Franco died in his deathbed and he actually received aid from america.

[Anonymous No.13881901]

>>13881134
If you knew Catalans, you would know how egoistic and profit minded they are. It’s in their Phoenician blood. They are the antithesis of anything cooperative or communal.

[Anonymous No.13881991]

>>13881237
oh, hello, Don Fastino!

[Anonymous No.13882026]

>>13881846
>Franco died in his deathbed and he actually received aid from america.
What Franco received aid from america? I'm in shock :s

[Anonymous No.13882028]

>>13881237
shoot yourself

[Anonymous No.13882037]

>>13882026
Large parts of the world devastated by World War II did not benefit from the Marshall Plan. The only major Western European nation excluded was Francisco Franco's Spain, which was highly unpopular in Washington. With the escalation of the Cold War, the United States reconsidered its position, and in 1951 embraced Spain as an ally, encouraged by Franco's aggressive anti-communist policies. Over the next decade, a considerable amount of American aid would go to Spain, but less than its neighbors had received under the Marshall Plan.[120]

[Anonymous No.13882042]

>>13881275
shove up your hispanicity up your arse

[Anonymous No.13882050]

I hate Republicans and Nationalists alike. Fuck all the retards from abroad who went to fight in the Spanish civil war except Simone Weil <3

[Anonymous No.13882062]

>>13881134
You realize that the antifascists were in control of the city the whole second half of the book, right? That the infighting, indefinite and arbitrary imprisonment, and executions came from the antifascist factions, not Franco?

[Anonymous No.13882077]

>>13881134
Well that's what you get when you trust commies

[Anonymous No.13882088]

>>13882050
lol what an edgelord

[Anonymous No.13882125]

>>13881134
Question, do lefties actually think they will get a "workers paradise" when they win one of these revolutions?

[Anonymous No.13882128]

>>13882125
No it's actually based on pathological envy, as long as no one is able to own means of production or rise above anyone, they are in paradise.

[Anonymous No.13882137]

>>13881141
That's because he didn't murder priests.

[Anonymous No.13882196]

>>13881237
This.

[Anonymous No.13882202]

>>13882137
>Nevertheless, the Nationalists killed at least 16 Basque nationalist priests (among them the arch-priest of Mondragon),[137] and imprisoned or deported hundreds more.[138] Several priests who tried to halt the killings[139] and at least one priest who was a Mason were killed.[140]

[Anonymous No.13882203]

>>13881261
>rebuilt Germany
>rebuilt Japan
>intervened on behalf of numerous nations fighting against gommies
>no other country in the world at any point in times has given more money to ease poverty
>no other country in the world has given more foodstuffs to impoverished nations
Sure, you learned half the story from your marxist professor

[Anonymous No.13882222]

>>13882128
This
leftists claim to love the worker, but they actually despise them. When Orwell was doing research for his book Road to Wigen Pier, he learned of this first hand. Lefties like to use the working class as their mascot, but actually disdain them for their values, lifestyle (being less than extravagant), lack of culture (in the eyes of the leftist intellectuals), but most of all for their work ethic, that is desire to build themselves of their own hands.

[Anonymous No.13882238]

>>13882125
we already did

[Anonymous No.13882243]

>>13881243
Vaya el tonto del pueblo, "asuntos de España".. That's why they needed Nazi and fascist help to win the military rebellion xD, vete a la mierda

[Anonymous No.13882248]

>>13881275
Carlist in 2019, troll detected.
And how were they doing that, describe to me what hispanicity is and show me how the republican government was removing it. The clergy sided with the cowards, the fascist elite. They've turned their back to their faith and people for own personal gain. You embody cowardice and hatred, everything that could make humanity fail. You are a failure

[Anonymous No.13882256]

>>13881312
>thousands of adherents

[Anonymous No.13882269]

>>13881478
You're an idiot, Spain lived in shit for twenty years when Franco was already in power, READ a book please

[Anonymous No.13882293]

>>13882238
where it at tho

[Anonymous No.13882298]

>>13882222
Let me tell you, there is nothing more driven and effective than a communist agitator.
For example, Kshama Sawant.
She alone managed to raise the minimum wage for Seattle to $15 an hour.
And their economy is better for it.
She represents the socialist alternative party.
A party that wants to put the top 500 corporations under worker's management.
Literally communism.
And she only works for the city council.
That's miles better than the impotent democrats like Obama.

[Anonymous No.13882316]

>>13882298
>Kshama Sawant

Didn't she get BTFO'd by a bunch of construction workers?

[Anonymous No.13882317]

>>13882256
Well, hundreds

[Anonymous No.13882318]

>>13881275
Sounds like Henry 8. He anglo-jewed England for all eternity by doing those things. Now all britbongs are basically subversive and lost Jews except without logos or a proper religious cultural foundation.

[Anonymous No.13882322]

>>13881496
>Retards are still willingly being convinced that capitalism is standing in opposition to the "feminazi homoglobo"
You haven't been paying close enough attention bud

[Anonymous No.13882330]

>>13882222
This is a childish Rush Limbaugh explanation of "leftism" ignoring about two centuries of history and assuming the only leftists in existence are the trust fund kids Sean Hannity puts on his show to publicly berate

[Anonymous No.13882369]

>>13882322
>He wants the "class war" to end
The fact is, women were more dependent on men when they didnt have equal rights and were more financially fucked.
So losers and socially retarded men should want capitalism and class war even more so they still have a chance to compete with better looking men because they could get rich and have a competent career.
So making a commune that kills capitalism is even more of a shot in the foot for those losers. Companies will mimic every trend and idea into the people and so will leaders to get the major vote, and feminists get things their way in both scenarios. Unless you have some imperialist goverment that makes its rules justified by "the will" of the ruler you wont break the feminazi ideology.

[Anonymous No.13882379]

>>13881243
Vete a la mierda

[Anonymous No.13882381]

>>13882369
It's time for you to read Houellebecq adn stop being a little retarded fuck!!

[Anonymous No.13882402]

>>13882381
I have read Houellebecq and he really doesnt say anything that could added to the post.
Im just laying out my prespective: A loser has more chances of getting laid in a capitalist hierarchy scenario than in a commune one where women are more independent and choose their partners more based on attraction that you are more naturally born with.

Houellebecq also shows a bit of ignorance in his books when it comes to philosophy, in his thinkings about Kant and that Nietzsche leads to nazism. But i still liked his plots.

[Anonymous No.13882411]

>>13882369
I have absolutely no idea where you picked up any implication about "the class war" from my post
My point was that capitalism today IS globalism, the two have tied themselves together inextricably
What the fuck kind of incel-centric backwards-ass analytical framework are you trying to describe? I don't care about the supposed plight of "losers and socially retarded men" in this or any other system, and neither does anybody else

[Anonymous No.13882416]

>>13882402
>So what makes you such an ardent supporter of your ideological viewpoint?
>It's the only one where I can get laid
>Oh, so you get laid a lot in the current capitalist west?
>Well uh, you see,

[Anonymous No.13882446]

>>13882411
Literally didnt read any of your above posts. I was just replying to that post in specific.
>My point was that capitalism today IS globalism, the two have tied themselves together inextricably
Yes, and what about it? Even if you end capitalism you still have globalism, you cant really end globablism when you have todays techology and moral lens.
>I don't care about...
Then so be it.

>>13882416
Whats your argument again? Yes a high career profile ugly will get more easily laid, power and recognition than in a commune, thats my point.

[Anonymous No.13882492]

>>13882416
>You cant support the ideology that gives you the most power, women dependent on you and class bucko.
Literally even David Foster Wallace himself got hella laid with women begging for him with his stupid acne face when he went to work in finances and his profile (GS-9) was mistaken for a high one (GS-13) from another David Wallace.
If following your logic you should laugh at people who support communism just because they were lazy fucks that took useless degrees and complain they are being exploited. Or literally any other ideology just because it gives them something they want.

[Anonymous No.13882493]

>>13881134
>workers paradise
Your dumb ass hasn't worked an honest day in your life, you sure that's what you really want?

[Anonymous No.13882595]

>>13882493
So much resentment, what's fueling your life? Don't you have any intellectual capacity to get rid of all your hatred?

[Anonymous No.13882613]

Bluepilled: Leftists want to destroy Spain
Redpilled: Catalans want to destroy Spain
Reminder that Catalonia should be nuked and the Eternal Catalan rots literally everything he touches

[Anonymous No.13882633]

>>13882613
Implying what happened in Catalonia was a geographical isolated case and had nothing to do with the European political climate of that time.

[Anonymous No.13882656]

>>13882595
>Yeah bro, if you are hating something or someone because they can get what you cant you are dumb and shouldnt do it.
"Intellectual capacity" should be spotting these kinds of dumb arguments with little reasoning behind.
If people listened more to their envy, and instincts that want you to climb in life instead of this religious thinking of "dont do X out of hate" they would more easily solve their problems. Of course some person that has what the other doesnt wouldnt want him to think this way.

[Anonymous No.13882880]

>brainlet tier: Franquismo
>midwit tier: República
>patrician tier: Falangismo

[Anonymous No.13883306]

>>13882243
Rojo escocido vete a comerle la polla a los inmigrantes que tanto te gustan traidor hijo de puta.

[Anonymous No.13883379]

I head Franco's corpse is being exhumed from a state tomb. Fascists deserve to be buried in a ditch.

[Anonymous No.13883414]

>>13881283
>>13881296
>>13882256
Top tier argumentation there, faggot.

[Anonymous No.13884303]

>>13881134
You mean if only the vertical syndicalists had triumphed over the anarcho-syndicalists, eliminated the generals, subordinated the Carlists to a mere national catholicism and established a totalitarian seafaring empire?

[Anonymous No.13885393]

>>13881216
Paris was much more interesting than his life as a tramp in England. I wanted to know more about his Russian friend. What a guy.

[Anonymous No.13885437]

>>13882050

>I hate republicans AND nationalists alike

Fuck off centrist

[Anonymous No.13885485]

>>13881330
Reminder that most of the capital R Republican faction defected to Franco after they saw how their Soviet allies treated their countrymen

[Anonymous No.13885618]

daily reminder half of the francoist fighting force were AFRICANS and there was a major francoist general who broadcast radio transmissions fantasizing about his African troops raping Spanish women in newly conquered territories.

[Anonymous No.13885638]

>>13883414
>politics is about the number of people who agree with you and their collective strength relative to other people
>It's irrelevant that my cooper speshul ideology has less than a thousand adherents and they're all middle-class/lower middle-class catchup pedo retards

[Anonymous No.13885647]

>>13885618
Spaniards are an African people themselves. Just because their country is technically within Europe does not mean they are European/white.

[Anonymous No.13885794]

>>13882322
that is why the only way to defeat gay capitalism is not communism, mere fascism or francoism won't do either. We need something far more potent and radical: Esoteric Hitlerism NS revolution, the enemies of mankind deserve no quarter and no mercy. Read Miguel Serrano and the Order of Nine Angles. Hitler was a mere prefiguration of the true Vindex, Lord Kalki, the destroyer, He was far too mercyful and restrained, Human all too human.

[Anonymous No.13885825]

>>13885618
sauce on both of these claims, please

>>13885647
retarded. I'm not even Spanish but this is retarded

[Anonymous No.13885827]

>>13885825
one of my professors told me

[Anonymous No.13885836]

>>13885794
cringe lmao

[Anonymous No.13885860]

>>13882880
Based anti-atheist Catholic, I'm so glad Catholic illiberalism is making a comeback in the West. Leo XIII was right, neither the communists nor the capitalists can be trusted.

[Anonymous No.13885868]

>>13885827
har har

[Anonymous No.13885881]

>>13885860
Communism, liberalism and progressivism are the children of Catholicism, they follow from christian doctrine ''all men are the children of God''. Any serious revolutionary renewal of the west must begin by extirpating the alien tree of semitic slave morality from the root. You can trace a straight line from flagellants at catholic processions to bdsm child drag queens at globohomo pride parades.

[Anonymous No.13885885]

>>13881237
Based

[Anonymous No.13885890]

>>13881698
Franco didn't kill himself in a bunker though?

[Anonymous No.13885898]

>>13885881
lmao real low IQ hours huh

[Anonymous No.13885912]

>>13885890
you're right he just connected all the bones of his mothers skeleton with cum and then kowtowed to liberal democracies for the rest of his life

[Anonymous No.13885924]

>>13885881
They're the children of Protestantism. Catholicism, fueled by Thomism, has always been about pursuing the mean between two extremes. Love of God, but also love of neighbor. Neither too much nor too little power for the State. Neither too much nor too little freedom in the markets. Neither too much nor too little freedom of speech/religion/expression/etc.. The pursuit of Truth, which is virtue.

[Anonymous No.13885928]

>>13885825
>ERRRRRMMMM sorry sweaty u got a source for that....?
you think I'm gonna cite my sources? You castrated yurocuck? It's in the Paul Preston account I think but you've already subverted the aesthetic and philosophical appeal of your actual political positions by being a lib about it.
At least deny the whole thing wholesale like a good catholic.

[Anonymous No.13885931]

>>13885924
Based

[Anonymous No.13886020]

>>13881141
>Sadly
Those shitblood communists got exactly what they deserved. I would have been far more cruel, frankly.

How emboldened the Good Little Leftist must have felt when his carnival of thievery and iconoclasm was at its height. He felt nothing of stealing here, and killing a priest there, of betraying his nation's heritage and culture to Jewish power, of actively supporting all manners of degeneracy. How smug, how self-assured, he must have felt. The revolution is come, and I am invincible!

And then, to see him emaciated in a camp, in a long line of his battered fellows, all cued up in front of one noose, where they are being hanged one at a time like the thieves that they are. How loud must the pounding in his ears be, the panic as he realizes that nobody is coming to help him. He has watched a hundred men plead, and beg, and struggle, and a hundred times they kick on the end of that rope. He is drawing nearer now. Where are his comrades? Where are his brave revolutionaries? Gone down the line to that rope.

Perhaps if they had just not been thieves, they would be spared. But no, that choice is now denied him, as he is taken from the line, and meekly obeys as he is pulled up the gallows stairs, to the rope. Maybe if he just cowers, maybe if he just closes his eyes and goes along with it, they won't kill him. Maybe they will spare him out of pity.

But these men holding his arms saw what he and his fellows did to the churches, and to the nuns. They tie the knot wrong on purpose, so that he will suffer. They have their eyes on his boots, and on his wife, who, upon the defeat of her weak husband, has immediately found herself the companionship of real men. A leftist through and through, she is also a whore, and she is only thinking of the pork side promised to her by her current client as her husband is lifted off the ground by the rope.

What incredible justice.

[Anonymous No.13886035]

>>13885825
The bit about African auxiliaries is true, they hired North African troops to terrorize the Reds, and they did a spectacular job.

[Anonymous No.13886040]

>>13886020
You doing ok man? I don't know what your specific qualifications are but I'd probably be one of the people you're fantasizing about. what lead to this for you?

[Anonymous No.13886054]

>>13886035
bet you got a tab opened to blacked dot com while you typed this

[Anonymous No.13886238]

>>13886054
Leave us out of it, we're Arabs, not black.

[Anonymous No.13886272]

>>13881348
pretty sure he was in several firefights before being shot, and also pretty sure he stated that he thinks he did kill someone with a grenade

[Anonymous No.13886292]

>>13882298
>A party that wants to put the top 500 corporations under worker's management.
Theft, there it is.

[Anonymous No.13886739]

>>13886292
You’re either a boomerbrained retard or a troll (respect)

[Anonymous No.13886921]

>>13886739
>(respect)
can someone explain in layman terms where "respect for trolling" comes from

[Anonymous No.13887022]

>>13883306
Typical, fascists never have any context or meaning. Aslong as they can spread hate for no purpose whatsover only that other people can reach power. Eres un hombre miserable

[Anonymous No.13887030]

>>13884303
In his little delusional world that would be the case. Although the world and it's spheres of influence are a lot more complicated than that. Something a lot of people who read history tend to forget. Alot is circumstancional

[Anonymous No.13887032]

>>13885647
Stop typing please, you're making yourself look really dumb

[Anonymous No.13887040]

>>13885794
Would love to see your face when the capitalist world will just adopt to the new political power and vice versa because the new politcal power will need investors to last their power. Result, you'll be an even more morally deprived and worthless slave of the economy because other ideologies will be forbidden.

[Anonymous No.13887044]

>>13886921
it's fun to fuck with people, especially those who are easily upset

[Anonymous No.13887051]

>>13885881
It's a bit more then just christian doctrine, it's an entire history of judea-christian european traditions. Dating back as far as ancient greece

[Anonymous No.13887053]

>>13882298
>And their economy is better for it
But It's not. People Lost their ficking business and the corps you "hate" so much took the spoils.

[Anonymous No.13887057]

>>13881237
/leftypol/ refugee tourist tranny faggots seething at this based and truthpilled post

[Anonymous No.13887058]

>>13886020
Oh man you must hate yourself so much to be able to hate other people that much. If you're ignorant to the fact that both sides did horrible things then I sincerely think something is seriously wrong with you

[Anonymous No.13887060]

>>13886035
They hired Moorish muslim troops (Moroccan) and they raped and slaughtered a lot of innocent people in Spanish villages

[Anonymous No.13887063]

>>13886238
Nah you're cultirized Arabs, actually you are of berbers origin

[Anonymous No.13887066]

>>13885881
If with this you mean they are an Heresy which, like all heresies do, took a complex idea and simplified it to retardedness I agree with you.

[Anonymous No.13887067]

>>13886020

[Anonymous No.13887074]

>>13887053
This
Less people are getting hired, and those hit hardest are those who need the work the most. Happens every time minwage is raised. It hits small bussiness and the poor hardest, but the lefty intellectuals dont mind cause its not about helping the underclass, its about "progressing" govt reach. A little more of the socialist utopia everyday.

[Anonymous No.13887075]

>>13881901
maybe thats why they pulled it off

[Anonymous No.13887086]

>>13881134
Anarchism only works during wartime, where there is a pressing external existential threat to society in order to bind everybody together (Paris, Ukraine, Rojava). If the republicans had won the war, Catlonia would have either collapsed within a few years or have had to start new wars to keep the revolutionary spirit alive for a while longer. Orwell, though a socialist, understood this about revolutionary politics - that's why Oceania is in a perpetual state of war in 1984.

[Anonymous No.13887119]

>>13887086
Interesting although I'm not entirely convinced yet, since anarchism has never really existed in a pacifist state because they never won any wars... One can say anarchism never really existed as of yet because it actually requires a pacifist community in order to develop. Then the question lies if that anarchism is naturally unachievable even in the most morally and intelectually advanced society, or that reactionary forces will always have the monetary and therefor technological advantage over populist uprising and aslong that balance isn't shifted it is doomed to fail?

[Anonymous No.13887156]

>>13887119
>Doomed to fail.
Yep, I think you've hit the nail on the head. It's really unfortunate, of course, but I just can't envision any anarchist society existing beyond a generation except if it's at war (could even be a cold war, I suppose) with an external force for all that time.
That having been said, I think you could make a decent argument that most, if not all, forms of society (and therefore human beings in general) require some sort of enemy in order to cement their own identities, form social bonds, and be committed to the survival of the society. Tribes have enemies in other tribes, nations in other nations, religions in other religions, and whole economic systems in other economic systems.

[Anonymous No.13887170]

The cover makes it look like the building is coughing

[Anonymous No.13887172]

>>13887119
Also, Anarchism has existed in a pacifist state, in the form of small-scale communes that obviously aren't particularly successful. This is because the reality of pacifist Anarchism simply doesn't inspire the same sort of revolutionary spirit or enthusiasm as wartime Anarchism, so fewer people will be on board.
Think about it, would you rather be a small-time farmer, peacefully irking out some form of existence for yourself and maybe a dozen other people, or a revolutionary soldier who fights fascism? Most people so inclined would choose the latter, and as soon as the war is over, would become quickly disillusioned with the pacifist reality.

[Anonymous No.13887210]

>>13887172
Most people are not inclined to be the latter which is why for the vast majority of human civilised history, despite vastly outnumbering their social superiors, the peasantry class has rarely revolted. When peasants have revolted it has very very rarely been to overthrow the whole system but rather to return to some imaging status quo of the past. Forgive me if I'm wrong but you sound like you're projecting a 20th century idea of individualism onto the past.

[Anonymous No.13887239]

I have a theory.
i call it the authoritarian triad.
and you can correct me and tell me us bs and explain why but i think it explains many things pretty well.
There are three things that determine how authoritarian a society is.
1.social cohesion
2.security
3.complexity
so a society that was less complex, was more socially cohesive and had security would be more egalitarian.
But again thats just something i came up with out of the blue and i could be wrong.

[Anonymous No.13887282]

>>13881134
Hemos pasado

[Anonymous No.13887317]

>>13881141
Because the majority of people on 4chan are retarded Americans and they're already fascists.

[Anonymous No.13887377]

>>13887317
Serious question, comrade: have you done your dilation yet today? Don’t forget, otherwise your rotting open wound, excuse me, “neo-vagina” will close up.

[Anonymous No.13887407]

>>13887377
What a useless post.

[Anonymous No.13887450]

>>13887058
>hating leftist murderers is evil; you should let them hate you, however.

[Anonymous No.13887451]

>>13886020
>Perhaps if they had just not been thieves,
Private property of the means of production is theft.
The first asshole who said "this is mine, and only mine", regarding a piece of land, in a tribe, committed theft. Of course, owning privately a piece of land wasn't only a mutual agreement, but also enforced with violence, hence the police was born.
Your thought are reversed. Youi think private property is natural, when it is not, in the paleolithic times. It's a human, an artificial construct.

[Anonymous No.13887460]

>>13887239
Perceived security and social cohesion are probably useful for predicting a society's proclivity towards authoritarianism. I'm less certain about "complexity", what do you mean by that?

For instance: Ancient societies were less technologically and organisationally complex than modern societies, but arguably more authoritarian. On the other side, Nazi-Germany had a relatively complex society but was more authoritarian than other societies in its time.

[Anonymous No.13887480]

>>13887086
It's not because of that. It's because Capitalism has better productivity than anarcho-communism. Thus people are drawn to Capitalism and all it's shiny stuff, even if it means wage slavery.
People have a choice of living without wage labor, in a sharing society, but without all the latest products, or living in a sharing society, without much hierarchy and constraint, but in a more traditional way. That's why the vast majority of people choose Capitalism. That's what happend to some young Huterrites (a current real communist society). They are not wage slave in their society, but some leave nonetheless, because they want the latest Iphone, or a nice house, a car...
Only when Capitalism will have fallen under it's own contradiction, then communism won't be a choice anymore, but the only way to produce.

[Anonymous No.13887489]

>>13887451
Everything is an artificial construct. You’re not smart for stating it and it’s not an argument. Fucking retard commies.

[Anonymous No.13887491]

>>13887480
Yes, comrade. It will work this time.

[Anonymous No.13887527]

>>13887460
Medieval and ancient societies were more authoritarian because of a lack of security.
As far as complexity, it'd be more straightforward to have direct democracy in an agrarian society than a modern economy.
Can you imagine a direct democracy in the modern world?
What does the average joe know about running an economy?

[Anonymous No.13887531]

>>13881134
fuck you faggot

[Anonymous No.13887533]

>>13887451
>Private property of the means of production is theft.
If you make a wood felling axe yourself, then from whom have you stolen it?

>Youi think private property is natural, when it is not, in the paleolithic times. It's a human, an artificial construct.
Birds build nests for themselves, and keep other birds out, even resorting to violence if necessary. Lions demarcate territory which they defend from other lions in much the same way.
Imagine actually believing that private property is solely a human construct and therefore it is evil.

The absolute state of this place.

[Anonymous No.13887538]

>>13887489
>Everything is an artificial construct.
not that guy but you're fucking stupid bitch

[Anonymous No.13887542]

>>13887533
your analogy is fucking shit

[Anonymous No.13887551]

>>13887451
It's all so tiring

[Anonymous No.13887552]

>>13887407
There's a real documented trend of nazis transitioning when they get out of nazism. It's just them putting on others what they feel about themselves.

[Anonymous No.13887557]

>>13887527
Aha, I get what you're saying. In a complex society, people feel more pressured to delegate control of it to a central institution (the state), therefore increasing the power of that central institution.

[Anonymous No.13887561]

>>13887542
What's wrong with it?

[Anonymous No.13887565]

>>13887561
did you go to uni?

[Anonymous No.13887566]

>>13887527
>What does the average joe know about running an economy?
The knowledge of our leaders isn't being utilized properly or they are making severe errors. There is no way an ever-increasing debt-bubble can be manageable, but in a democracy everybody pretends that it is, because they want to be popular even in the next run.

[Anonymous No.13887577]

>>13885638
I'm not even a carlist you massive retard, i was pointing out how the only way you know how to argue is with straw man fallacies, and you proved me right again.

Go back to r/books or something.

[Anonymous No.13887592]

>>13887538
Do you wash your hands after you shit? That’s an artificial construct that society pushed on you, so by your own logic you should stop doing that.

[Anonymous No.13887599]

>>13887552
You have to go back.

[Anonymous No.13887608]

>>13887592
so you wouldn't wipe your ass if society didn't tell you?
AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA shithead

[Anonymous No.13887631]

>>13887608
Is English your second language?

[Anonymous No.13887643]

>>13882050
HAHAHHAHHAH

Ezra Pound, as much as he has some stellar poems, was an absolute ignoramus when it came to economics. Just look it up.

Pound is one of those guys who always talks with severe force, but is only able to back up his words with deeds one or two times out of ten.

What thou knowest well remains, the rest is dross

[Anonymous No.13887647]

>>13887565
Hahahaha

[Anonymous No.13887681]

>>13887631
you're the one who doesn't even know what he's saying, dirty ass bitch.

[Anonymous No.13887687]

>>13881237
based

[Anonymous No.13887699]

>>13881287

[Anonymous No.13887715]

>>13887533
You straight up don't know what private property is. Please read Marx.

[Anonymous No.13887719]

>>13881237
ok but i WILL

[Anonymous No.13887723]

>>13887599
No you go back.

[Anonymous No.13887724]

>>13887491
That's not what i said.

[Anonymous No.13887728]

>>13881134

I know this is bait but even if the left had won, the CNT lot would have been utterly smashed by the Stalin backed government. There would have been no workers' paradise

[Anonymous No.13887729]

>>13887647
Nice argument.

[Anonymous No.13887737]

>>13887533
Ok now we are discussing homo sapiens way of life with birds and lions example. Why not cockroaches?
Since we are animal comparision, here is our closest cousin.
https://mediarelations.gwu.edu/study-finds-bonobos-may-be-better-representation-last-common-ancestor-humans-common-chimpanzees-0

[Anonymous No.13887747]

>>13887715
>It's all so tiresome.

I know perfectly well what private property, but please enlighten me with your specific circumstantial definition of private property.

Arguing about semantics isn't going to win an argument you fucking sophist.

[Anonymous No.13887758]

>>13887729

If you're resorting to "did you go to uni?" it's no use continuing the conversation.

[Anonymous No.13887776]

>>13887737
It's perfectly fine to discuss every animal species' take on property rights, but I'm afraid that's not the point I was making.

I only gave examples of birds and lions to disprove the assumption that private property is only a product of human interaction. I could've given examples of prehistoric hominids or chimpanzees as well, it doesn't matter.

[Anonymous No.13887777]

>>13887758
No it's relevant because I want to know if i'm dealing with an invalid who analogizes in a borderline mentally retarded way.

[Anonymous No.13887792]

>>13887533

We don't care about you axe. It's personnal property. If you made it, it's yours.
Means of production: manufacture and factory basically.

[Anonymous No.13887808]

>>13887777
If it's a borderline mentally retarded analogy, then it would've been no problem for you to brutally demolish it.

Instead, you make a retarded argument from authority and attack the person instead of the analogy.

Really makes you think, huh.

[Anonymous No.13887831]

>>13887792
The difference between an axe and a factory is a difference of degree, not of kind. They are both means of production.

If I, instead of making the axe myself, paid someone else to make it for me, I still own the axe. I am not exploiting the other person since they accept the transaction voluntarily.

The factory owner owns the factory because he has paid for its construction in the same way.

[Anonymous No.13887833]

I dont get it so the farmer isnt entitled to give his crops away if it was all made with his own work? Its mostly just out of the kindnesa of his heart?

[Anonymous No.13887837]

>>13887776
We are talking about private property of the means of production. Not your pen or your toothbrush. Animals have property, a dog has a bone, but he will not exploit other dogs to produce him more bones. You won't see a wolf hunting a prey, and bringing all or most of the prey to the "alpha" wolf. They share the hunt. By the way about wolf, latest studies prove that there is not as much hierarchy as we thought:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pack_(canine)#Dominance_and_the_alpha_wolf

[Anonymous No.13887842]

>>13887808
You think no private property means you don't attack the intruder invading your home which is retarded like your brain.
That's why your analogy is fucking shit and i asked if you went to university.
>how dare you insult me on the internet
AHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA cry fuckface

[Anonymous No.13887859]

>>13887837
The original assumption was:
>Youi think private property is natural, when it is not, in the paleolithic times. It's a human, an artificial construct.

It made no effort to specifiy what was owned, therefore my assumption that private property is not an exclusively human construct still stands. I was making no comment on exploitation, or anything of that sorts.

You may have misread what I initially said.

[Anonymous No.13887861]

>>13887831
>The factory owner owns the factory because he has paid for its construction in the same way.
The factory owner only pays the first Capital investment. After this, once he has taken back his initial investment, it is the wage workers who pay for the factory development, with their work. Yet the factory owner still take all the profit.
In homo sapiens tribes, before 12000 BCE (neolithic revolution), no one owned privately a piece of land inside the tribe's territory. That's bullshit, and that's one big artificial construct.

[Anonymous No.13887870]

>>13887842
>You think no private property means you don't attack the intruder invading your home which is retarded like your brain

I didn't say that anywhere. I also do not feel insulted by you in any way.

[Anonymous No.13887872]

>>13887608
There are people who don't wipe their hands because society doesn't tell them to, or their in-group prefers it as a status symbol.
Truck drivers, Indians...

[Anonymous No.13887877]

>>13887861
>In homo sapiens tribes, before 12000 BCE (neolithic revolution), no one owned privately a piece of land inside the tribe's territory.


How do you know?

[Anonymous No.13887881]

>>13881296
>Why do people hate me so?
Why don't leftists understand that they are despicable?

[Anonymous No.13887890]

>>13887861
>The factory owner only pays the first Capital investment. After this, once he has taken back his initial investment, it is the wage workers who pay for the factory development, with their work. Yet the factory owner still take all the profit.

Again, I was only talking about the existence of private property. I was not making any comment about how that private property is used. If you want to talk about how "the factory owner exploits the worker" that's totally fine but it has virtually nothing to do with the original point.

>In homo sapiens tribes, before 12000 BCE (neolithic revolution), no one owned privately a piece of land inside the tribe's territory. That's bullshit, and that's one big artificial construct.

Again: difference of degree, not of kind.

[Anonymous No.13887893]

>>13887870
It's implied in your analogy you braindead dumbfuck dogshit cunt.
It's cool just play pretend your future is fucked anyway.

[Anonymous No.13887910]

>>13887877
There is a lot of material from anthropologists from late 19th century (Lewis H. Morgan), to 20th century (Pierre Clastres), to current universities articles.
In the primitive tribe, society was organized in sharing families, the gens.

[Anonymous No.13887944]

>>13887893
The statement that private property warrants protection, which leads to violence, does not mean that the absence of private property means that violence does not occur.

Also, saying that "You think no private property means you don't attack the intruder invading your home" doesn't make any sense because you explicitly state that I do own a home, therefore private property does exist.

Maybe logic just isn't your thing.

[Anonymous No.13887946]

>le private property dont exist
>social construct

So if I tell you I own X and only I can touch it, and bash your head in if you try to touch it. The whole scenario didn't occur because it's not a real thing?

Sorry candyasses, private property will exist until humans stop being able to exert violence. Read more biology and anthropology and less marxist oversocialized bullshit.

[Anonymous No.13887982]

>>13881134
You have to be a real brainlet to go fight in a spanish civil war, it doesn't matter the side you choose

[Anonymous No.13887985]

>>13887944
>violence would still occur
Exactly, so what's the point of your shit analogy?

>Also, saying that "You think no private property means you don't attack the intruder invading your home" doesn't make any sense because you explicitly state that I do own a home, therefore private property does exist.
That's because you think homes aka places people live in would not exist when private property is abolished. Where would they live? Are you seriously this much of a braindead faggot?
Anyway, this is your brainAIDS understanding of the entire concept and which is why you and your rotting faggot brain didn't go to uni and you'll end up in manual labor as god intended.

[Anonymous No.13887986]

>>13881141
Speaking of siding with Franco, I would recommend everyone who liked Homage to Catalonia to read Peter Kemp's Mine Were of Trouble. He describes the conflict as a volunteer for the Francoist side. He isn't quite as naïve as Orwell with regards to the cause, but the book is very similar in style and content. Moreover, while Orwell only hears of most of the horrors the Republicans committed (prisons excepted), Kemp is present for some of the Francoist deeds; he also sees far more combat than Orwell does. However, since Kemp never had a hit novel like Orwell, his books can be a little hard to find. An excellent book however, and much recommended to any fans of Orwell.

[Anonymous No.13887988]

>>13887946
i'd touch it and you wouldn't do anything fuckface
the rest of your post is just brainAIDS

[Anonymous No.13887995]

>>13887944
>Maybe logic just isn't your thing.
Shit the logic of some failson who didn't go to uni

[Anonymous No.13888015]

>>13887985
It's all so tiresome.

>so what's the point of your shit analogy?
To prove that private property is a natural phenomenon that isn't an exclusively human construct.

>hat's because you think homes aka places people live in would not exist when private property is abolished. Where would they live? Are you seriously this much of a braindead faggot?
It's impossible for homes to be a non-excludable, completely public good.

>Anyway, this is your brainAIDS understanding of the entire concept and which is why you and your rotting faggot brain didn't go to uni and you'll end up in manual labor as god intended.
I did go to uni. There's also nothing wrong with manual labour.

Honestly, I don't have anything against you, and I'm wondering you might actually be a troll.

[Anonymous No.13888019]

>>13887995
If something is true, it's true. Doesn't matter who said it.

[Anonymous No.13888043]

>>13888015
>It's all so tiresome.
Maybe because you're a faggot.
Houses aren't counted private property under "abolition of private property", you will still have a house. Seriously, try reading before you spread your brainAIDS.
You definitely didn't go to uni but whatever say you did.
>>13888019
True, you didn't go to uni because you're stupid and a faggot.

[Anonymous No.13888057]

>>13887988
Oh boy, you are so scary through a computer screen!

Someone incapable of making anything out of himself so he has to actively fuck with other people with the drive to do it telling them they can't own means of production is so manly, I'm scared.

Cuck.

[Anonymous No.13888066]

>>13888057
lol

[Anonymous No.13888141]

>>13887450
You don't get it at all

[Anonymous No.13888250]

>>13882125

"They" "won" the (((Russian))) revolution and it only cost them 20 million corpses (incl. Holomor). It was an absolute paradise.

>>13882202

All 16 of them, frightening indeed.
And it wasnt because they were clergy. It was because they were rebels.

>>13882269

Yea and he fixed it proper didnt he? Strong industrialization and economic growth, and even managed to keep his country out of the ravages of ww2 saving countless lives.

[Anonymous No.13888276]

>>13886020

Holy fuck based and saved. True /lit/ talent right there, and the slew of impotent responses of the leftists you triggered with this great piece of text are the jewels in your crown.
God bless you

[Anonymous No.13888328]

>>13881698
Franco was neutral in WWII you imbecile

[Anonymous No.13888341]

>>13882248
The clergy had no option but to side with Franco. Even leaving aside the openly violent anarchists and communists, the rest of the leftist coalition was still deeply antagonistic to the Catholic Church in Spain. Land appropriation and anti-clerical legislation in the realms of education, politics, and economics were the hallmarks of Spanish leftist governments for decades before the Civil War.

[Anonymous No.13888378]

Are you retards seriously not understanding that personal property and private property are two different things?

[Anonymous No.13888389]

>>13888378
>personal property and private property are two different things?
Who draws the line? The party, of course!

[Anonymous No.13888390]

>>13888250
The Holodomor is literal anti-soviet propaganda. There were three famines in the USSR and none of them were engineered. There were multiple famines during the Tsarist times. There was a famine in the US in the 1930s. Was that engineered? Did Stalin do that?

Stop blabbering like a retarded burgoid.

[Anonymous No.13888400]

>>13888389
Literally how stupid can you be? A factory is private property (and should be seized by the workers who make the money). Your personal stuff is... SHOCKINGLY... personal property. No one is going to take your toothbrush or even your home. In America where I'm assuming you're from because even them dirty ooga booga low IQ Africans I've spoken to understand this there are more empty homes than there are homeless. Your cancerous suburbs could house everyone in your shithole country.

What about the distinction in properties is your burger brain not understanding?

[Anonymous No.13888421]

>>13886020
And the left are the sociopaths for not crying about kulaks getting executed lmao

[Anonymous No.13888435]

>>13881134
Ugh what could have been...

[Anonymous No.13888499]

>>13887577
I’ve read more books than you and I’ve been here much longer than you have

[Anonymous No.13888568]

>>13888400
>A factory is private property (and should be seized by the workers who make the money).
I own a house full of robots that automate stuff. Personal property?
>Your personal stuff is... SHOCKINGLY... personal property.
Where's the line? Is my home personal or up to taking?

[Anonymous No.13888578]

>>13888568
I've thought about this.
What if nobody owned a home and anyone could come in and out when he or she wants as long as they don't hurt anyone?
That'd be nice.

[Anonymous No.13888614]

>>13888578
That'd be a bit weird, I think. People do like their privacy but I think that's a cultural thing too.

[Anonymous No.13888625]

>>13888568
Reductio ad absurdum. A house full of automated robots is an abstract hypothetical, the kind of real situations that it supposedly corresponds to are invariably decided ad hoc, depending on what the fuck you even mean by your ambivalent description and the real world context that would accompany it, since it's so vague as to be fucking useless. 'Automate stuff'? What stuff? What's it being used for? Where does it go? Are others involved in this process? In what capacity? Does your hypothetical take place in a capitalist economy or are we already in a socialist one? Has there been a violent revolution or a big war? Or is it peacetime? What kind of 'robots'? Where'd you get them? What do you mean by 'home'? If a capitalist decides to live inside his gigantic factory for convenience or by necessity due to hard times, or to frustrate attempts at expropriation, is that his 'home', and therefore inviolable?

[Anonymous No.13888640]

>>13886020
Holy fuck
based

[Anonymous No.13888683]

>>13888625
>Reductio ad absurdum.
In every communist state, the bureaucracy has been enormous. The line must be clear.

[Anonymous No.13888693]

>you see your land isn't actually YOURS per say because your great (x15) grandfather put a fence around land that didn't really belong to anyone!
Wow, such insight. Why does this matter at all? Everything worthy is attained through violence. Countries exist because they have a monopoly on violence. Why would I freely choose to let bum niggas into my life? Why don't you screeching commies just get a job? I got expelled from high school and have managed to amass a decent amount wealth. If I can do it, why can't you supposed intellectuals do it? I spent my late teens and early 20s working on construction sites, picking up skills, and establishing a good work habit. I now own my own contracting company for a niche market and make a ton of shekels. It's just effort, that's it. I'm not super good with my hands, no high IQ, no secret info, nothing. My mom hasn't worked for years and my dad has been making a steady 20-30k for a long time. I didn't get shit handed to me, I unironically just went out there and worked. Saved up money, bought my own tools. It takes 5 minutes to register a company. Use the internet to advertise. There are jobs all over the place. You have to be severely handicapped or a lazy bum to not be able to find a job. I was a NEET coomer for a while before getting a job, but I managed to get over it. You are to blame for your shortcomings unless you have some really shitty luck, which most people do not have. It's a cope to blame the system for your shortcomings. I agree that there are more ideal systems on paper, but that's not the world we live in. You can keep complaining or just find a way to make it. It's not hard.

[Anonymous No.13888695]

>>13888683
Why not just look up how real world communist states dealt with things like personal dwellings that might also construed as/contained potential 'means of production' then? My guess would be that the contents were removed and the house was left alone, but who the fuck knows, there's probably all sorts of different circumstances that would affect what might be be done in such a situation

[Anonymous No.13888698]

>>13888693
Also would like to add that black people are a prime example of this. If you've ever lived around them, you will know their mentality. They constantly complain, are lazy af, don't want to do any work, demand immediate pay, not very productive even when working, etc.
t. lived around them for 16 years

[Anonymous No.13888702]

The most interesting thing about Orwell is that he was one of the earliest left wingers to identify the threat posed by the proto-SJW and feminists to socialist ideals. Here (France), his ideas have been re-affirmed by a few illiberal old-school communists (Clouscard, Michéa) which led to Orwell becoming very unpopular in mainstream (that is liberal/SJW) left wing circle.

[Anonymous No.13888710]

>>13888693
>Everything worthy is attained through violence
>Just work hard
Which one?
Besides, you're making it into a gay moral issue when the fact is that market economies should be replaced not because they're 'bad', but because they can't deal with the problems we'll be facing this century. Climate change being the most obvious one. I'm glad you made it as an individual, but if we want to make it as a species, we gotta change some shit.

[Anonymous No.13888721]

>>13887119
Anarchism has existed for the majority of human (pre)history. It's called hunter-gather tribes. The issue is that it doesn't scale well.

[Anonymous No.13888751]

>>13888015
>To prove that private property is a natural phenomenon that isn't an exclusively human construct.

Private property doesn't equal personal property. It's a technical marxist term that applies to means of production. That jacket you own isn't private property. The rubber factory you own is private property.

[Anonymous No.13888754]

>>13888710
>Which one?
Both, depending on circumstances and what you're aiming for.

>market economies should be replaced not because they're 'bad', but because they can't deal with the problems we'll be facing this century
That's an inherent problem of technology. Read Ellul.

>Climate change
Nothing we can do about it. It will run its course. Man-made climate change is still up for debate.

>but if we want to make it as a species
Honestly, I couldn't care less about blacks and other third worlders making it or not. If they do, good for them. They have their own problems to solve, and we have ours. Why should I care about what's going on in India or the Congo? Because it'll pollute the planet? What do you want me to do about it? Tell them no? Their country, their problem. Go talk to them about your concerns, Greta.

[Anonymous No.13888791]

>>13881141
>Sadly
Franco was a great leader who united Spain and managed to economically improve the country while also saving it from decadency. He ended the genocidal anti-christian red terror and restored order.
It only makes sense that most people would side with him because it is literally the best option for Spain. Only cucktalanians and edgy anarkids woud prefer someone else. Unfortunately, he was betrayed by Juan Carlos and the rojos finished the process of ruining Spain. Franco is stability, order and national spirit. A true preserver fo Christian values. On the other hand communists/anarchists and liberal scum are only seeking to destroy everything good yet providing only evil and perverted replacements for what was once stable and moral society.

[Anonymous No.13888821]

>>13888754
>Both, depending on circumstances
Exactly, it's all about circumstances mate
>inherent problem of technology
falling rate of profit, cyclical crises, corporate short termism, unprofitability of soon-vital industries, and the lobbying industry are not 'problems of technology'. They're problems of capitalism.
>Man-made climate change is still up for debate
People seem to believe otherwise. Besides, even if it was all natural we still gotta do something about it retard. Even if its as simple and last-ditch as stockpiling supplies and building fences to stop all the climate refugees we'll be seeing.
>niggers and poos
and speaking of refugees, they're exactly the reason I care if they 'make it'. The alternative is columns of them (hundreds of millions most likely) clogging up MY country. I'd rather not get nuked by India or who the fuck ever.

[Anonymous No.13888826]

>>13881410
>23M spaniards in 1930
After the war
>1M exiles
>50K prisoners executed
>500K prisoners used as slaves until 1948
>at least 10% of them died in the camps
Quite liveable

[Anonymous No.13888853]

>>13882269
>>13885825
Dude that's spanish civil war 101
Pic related a republican enlistment poster

[Anonymous No.13888890]

>>13888499
>I’ve read more books than you and I’ve been here much longer than you have

You literally can't know that, dummy. Try to read an actual book instead of shitposting on /lit/, your argumentative skills are embarrassing.

[Anonymous No.13888985]

>>13888890
No it’s obvious you write like any 2016 r/efugee

[Anonymous No.13888990]

>>13888578
So if your mother's vagina were a house you mean?

Nah.

[Anonymous No.13888995]

>>13888791
>Moors mass-raping white Spaniards is stable and moral

[Anonymous No.13889002]

>>13888695
Well seeing as the soviets raided farms and killed farmers on the spot if they refused to give them their harvest. My guess is, avoid.

[Anonymous No.13889014]

>>13888990
OwO

[Anonymous No.13889021]

>>13888821
>and speaking of refugees, they're exactly the reason I care if they 'make it'. The alternative is columns of them (hundreds of millions most likely) clogging up MY country. I'd rather not get nuked by India or who the fuck ever.

You're gonna love this. There is this thing called borders, like, imagine a big wall or fence, with barbed wire on top, and guards watching over it. So then you make one of these, oh wait they already are built. Anyway you take one of these and then, bam, you close it. So no shitskin can get in. And now you don't need to give a fuck or expend resources seeing if they "make it" or not!

It's brilliant I know, if only Nikola Tesla saw this genius.

[Anonymous No.13889032]

>>13888995
[citation required]

[Anonymous No.13889068]

>>13889021
Our current borders aren't gonna stand up to hundreds of millions, possibly billions of people trying to get in, and even if the actual walls and shit themselves WERE to hold, our global economic system would collapse. This means the governments stop functioning, which means people stop getting paid to do their jobs, which means social collapse retard, and followed by mass migration of poos anyway, as they waltz past our borders. They have all the factories, and they also have nukes. It's not a case of just shooting them all at our borders. So even assuming they don't decide to nuke us in sheer desperation/rage at the annihilation of their entire shitpit of a country, our country crumbles economically anyway in that scenario, and we lose regardless. The answer for the West is socialism (as in planned economy), then re-industrialisation/economic retooling, then environmental counter-measures, then arming ourselves, in case of the deluge. In that order.

[Anonymous No.13889070]

Not to sound like a big CENTRIST brain but both sides sound horrible.

Absolute state of spain then (and still lmao)

[Anonymous No.13889094]

>>13889068
if european countries turn to communism they'll make the economy so shitty and society so oppressive no poo will want to go there and get skin cancer instead.

[Anonymous No.13889121]

>>13889032
>Though incidents of rape were not confined only to African troops, Republicans emphasized these crimes because of the outrage and sympathy they provoked. Among Spaniards, the idea called to mind historic memories of Moorish rule and the threat of miscegenation for the Spanish race. In the wider international community shaped by colonial and racist norms, the idea of African troops raping European women raised widespread indignation. With the pressure of international opinion, Nationalists could not openly raise the specter of Moorish rape for a strategic advantage. Despite this, various sources indicate “that rape was part of the everyday culture of war amongst the Legion and native troops.”79 A thirteen-year-old eyewitness recounted “from a falangist who was present, I later heard that the woman had been raped by the whole Moorish firing squad before being executed.”80 Such testimony is evidence that although no posters carried the threat; it was spread by word of mouth to instill terror in Republican supporters. At the very least, Nationalists did little to discourage the sexual threat posed by their African allies
https://getd.libs.uga.edu/pdfs/bentrott_matthew_g_201008_ma.pdf

[Anonymous No.13889129]

>>13888695
>communist
>state

[Anonymous No.13889134]

>>13889121
Is it really a bad thing to get your enemy's families, the families of those who would kill you for not being a communist cuck, raped by moors?

[Anonymous No.13889137]

>>13889094
Yeah China's economy so shitty they only managed the fastest industrialisation in the history of man bro haha lol yeah you got me.
Or you gonna tell they managed that because they're fucking superior or something lmao fuck off you traitorous nigger
>oppressive
Faggot.

[Anonymous No.13889161]

>>13889137
I'm not talking about socialism with chinese characteristics.
I'm talking about cut yourself off the world's economy and have your productivity take a nose dive communism.

[Anonymous No.13889167]

>>13889134
I was pointing out your shit lie about Franco being moral or ending the anti-Christian terror or whatever the fuck else dickhead

>>13889002
That's what happens when you need to collectivise in ten years or face the Nazis unprepared and unindustrialised so I'm not gonna cry for them. They lost 30 million even with the preparation. Without, they would've been holocausted to extinction.

[Anonymous No.13889191]

>>13889161
Okay well I don't give a shit about what you're talking about I guess then

[Anonymous No.13889193]

>>13881698
to put this in perspective: wwii was you going up against a 5'9 skinny fat guy at a bar who had a couple of months of bjj training.

[Anonymous No.13889198]

>>13889161
It is so fucking funny how 'communism' only succeeds when it apes capitalism

[Anonymous No.13889199]

>>13889129
>Pedantic reddit cunt

[Anonymous No.13889212]

>>13889137
>whatever you cant get by making toys through slave labor you just lie about
real good economy bro

[Anonymous No.13889263]

>>13889167
>That's what happens when you need to collectivise in ten years or face the Nazis unprepared and unindustrialised so I'm not gonna cry for them.

>It is okay to commit atrocities when it suits my views
Oh that's right, the real communist resurfaces again.

[Anonymous No.13889267]

>>13888568
>I own a house full of robots that automate stuff. Personal property?
That's not a reality yet. When it will be, it will be superior communism. Those stuff do not produce for the community anyway. So personnal property.
> Is my home personal or up to taking?
The house is, in the primitive tribe, personal property. The vast majority of houses are not used to produce stuff for the community.

[Anonymous No.13889273]

>>13889167
That's what happens when you need to collectivise in ten years or face the Nazis unprepared and unindustrialised so I'm not gonna cry for them. They lost 30 million even with the preparation. Without, they would've been holocausted to extinction.
it's hilarious the excuses you make for your dear leader. didn't most of that happen before the nazis were an obvious threat? or even a movement at all?

[Anonymous No.13889282]

>>13889198
Cope on friend

>>13889212
>Fastest industrialisation in the history of the planet
>spacefaring nuclear power
>wages, GDP, standard of living multiplying 5, 10, 20 fold
>Houses some of the most vital industries in the world
>Poised to overtake the US
Cry more

[Anonymous No.13889286]

>>13889282
>Fastest industrialisation in the history of the planet
>spacefaring nuclear power
>wages, GDP, standard of living multiplying 5, 10, 20 fold
>Houses some of the most vital industries in the world
>Poised to overtake the US

>all by imitating capitalism on steroids (slave labour)

[Anonymous No.13889290]

>>13888721
If something doesn't scale, that's not a problem, do a confederation. That's what the Huterrites did to my knowledge, multiple communities, but sharing the same core values, and it works.

[Anonymous No.13889294]

>>13889282
>Poised to overtake the US
not exactly an achievement since we're on our way to being Greater New Mexico.
Also not real communism, sorry.

[Anonymous No.13889305]

>>13889263
Both sides 'commit atrocities' you moralising faggot. People die in social upheavals, what do you want me to say? It happens under capitalism, it'll happen under socialism too. There's no utopia. What's the point in getting mad about a fact you can't change. Yeah minimise atrocities sure, ackowledge them when they happen, but it'll still happen, so what else can you do? I've spent this whole thread saying that morality isn't the point of any of this - if you can only support a flawless ideology, you support no ideology.

>>13889273
They knew the Nazis were a threat since the early 30s retard.

[Anonymous No.13889312]

>>13889282
China is essentially a massive corporation, not a communist country.

[Anonymous No.13889315]

>>13889286
China has a core economy of planned, state-owned industry, and a periphery of tightly regulated markets that are utterly subordinated to the centre - they're socialist.
https://monthlyreview.org/2018/10/01/on-the-nature-of-the-chinese-economic-system/

>>13889294
>not real communism
You're more aligned with the orthodoxy of the western 'left' than me lmao nice job

[Anonymous No.13889323]

>>13889312
>dude China is like a giant corporation lmao
I'm not interested in your harebrained idealism re China

[Anonymous No.13889325]

>>13889315
They literally undersell shit to foreign countries via slave labour to invest in infrastructure in developing liberal nations. Why do you think rich chinks never put money into the homeland?

[Anonymous No.13889337]

>>13889323
You're not interested in apparently anything but people blindly agreeing with your retarded ideas.

[Anonymous No.13889338]

>>13889323
>>13889323
Nor I yours, the only way China has achieved any of this is by liberalizing its economy. Pretending it's still socialism is as disingenuous as suggesting the Scandanavian models aren't just capitalism without rednecks.

[Anonymous No.13889343]

>>13889338
There are scandi rednecks. It's certain...other demographics that America has that they don't.

[Anonymous No.13889347]

>>13889305
>They knew the Nazis were a threat since the early 30s retard.
so they planned a genocide in furtherance of the common good a year ahead of the nazi seizure of power then still almost lost the war if not for their brilliant strategy of dumping men into machine guns?

[Anonymous No.13889357]

>>13889343
Niggers aren't the reason America has no real sovereign wealth fund, simple tax system or effective welfare or health care systems.

[Anonymous No.13889361]

>>13889325
>dude they're slaves
>If China, whose large population and rapid wage growth significantly influence the global average, is excluded, global wage growth in real terms fell from 1.8 per cent in 2016 to 1.1 per cent last year
https://www.straitstimes.com/world/china-playing-significant-role-in-driving-global-wage-growth-report

[Anonymous No.13889363]

>>13889357
it doesn't help.

[Anonymous No.13889370]

>>13889357
They are in fact a huge reason why america doesn't like socialist policies. They don't want to pay for the blacks anymore than the absurd amount they already are paying.

[Anonymous No.13889378]

>>13889361
How is the success of their economy related to whether or not they use slaves and engage in capitalist markets?

[Anonymous No.13889380]

>>13889338
you eurofags are ignorant of how your system works yet you claim to be "intellectuals"
>but muh spotify and ikea and like 4 private corporations vs the US which has over 500

[Anonymous No.13889381]

>>13889361
>https://www.straitstimes.com/world/china-playing-significant-role-in-driving-global-wage-growth-report
Which is why manufacturing is moving back from asia to places like poland.
They've finished shifting the products and are not moving into the process of divesting into emerging technologies and infrastructure in high growth areas.
China. Is. A. Corporation.

[Anonymous No.13889382]

>>13889325
>Why do you think rich chinks never put money into the homeland?
because quite often the CCP kills people who get too rich?

[Anonymous No.13889390]

>>13889337
>>13889338
You got mad I dismissed your absolutely worthless contribution to this discussion lol fuck off. China is capitalist or socialist. Pick one and make an argument or go away.

>>13889347
>genocide
The '''''Holodomor''''' is bullshit, there was a large famine caused by natural disasters and compounded by an inefficient government response, no 'genocide' lmao, but no that wasn't to do with Nazis specifically since as you so very astutely point out, they weren't in power. That was due to the fact that the Soviets feared invasion from the liberal democracies (rightly or wrongly). The rise of fascism changed that dynamic completely.

>brilliant strategy of dumping men into machine gun
I also enjoyed Call of Duty 1

[Anonymous No.13889395]

>>13889380
Having thousands of leading corporations mean fuck all if like 73 people, all of whom work for Holding companies are seeing any real benefit from them. Capitalism doesn't have to be a race to the bottom.

[Anonymous No.13889401]

>>13889390
>China is capitalist or socialist.
There has never been a purely socialist or capitalist society in human history. Not that i'd expect a Tankie to be able to grasp nuance.

[Anonymous No.13889406]

>>13889390
>China is capitalist or socialist.
Ok. Capitalist. Having fucking hundreds of part-state owned monopolies doesn't make it socialism. The leaders are capitalists and rich as shit - they just don't like elections or anyone else having money.

[Anonymous No.13889407]

>>13889390
nice job parroting the commie line the exact same way holohoax deniers do. uncle joe would be proud.

[Anonymous No.13889412]

>>13889378
>use slaves
It isn't, I just don't think it's the foundation of their economic success. Which isn't to say China doesn't do human rights abuses and all that shit, but that's a separate matter.
>capitalist markets
Those two words aren't synonymous. The Roman Empire had markets. Were they capitalist?

>>13889381
>Which is why manufacturing is moving back
very observant
>are not moving into the process of divesting into emerging technologies and infrastructure in high growth areas
5G, green tech, AI, etc.
Whether they succeed is another matter, but their strategy is quite obviously to do exactly the thing you claim they're not doing.

[Anonymous No.13889420]

>>13889412
>into emerging technologies and infrastructure in high growth areas
>5G, green tech, AI, etc.
>are not
not sure why I wrote "not" but it's not meant to be there

[Anonymous No.13889448]

>>13889401
No shit, we don't categorise real world economies on 'purity' dickhead, but on which mode is DOMINANT. Even Trots like Mandel admit that.
>tankie
Oh no, please don't call me a tankie I'm cut

>>13889406
They exist although they're not the core referred to, which is state-owned and directed by detailed planning
>The leaders are capitalists and rich as shit
Lemme get a source on that cos these are the figures I've seen:
http://www.bjreview.com/17th/17th/txt/2007-10/11/content_79578.htm

>>13889407
>boo hoo facts are commie
You're harming your own side.

[Anonymous No.13889473]

ITT: /lit/ remembers that it's a para-fascist board

[Anonymous No.13889518]

>>13889199
>retarded burgoid who blathers about shite he doesn't know about

Colour me surprised

[Anonymous No.13889533]

>>13889370
It's always about race with burgers. It's because your masters are greedy as fuck. You're the stupid niggers not the blacks.

[Anonymous No.13889545]

>>13889518
>retarded europoor defends ideologies that kills his own people in order to enrich jews
no wonder they call you "goyim"

[Anonymous No.13889551]

>>13889533
then please take our blacks
please, just let them into your country and give them money

[Anonymous No.13889563]

>>13889518
I'm not American you flailing retard.
I called China communist colloquially because it is a socialist country ruled by a CP attempting to build towards communism. You proceeded to offer your gay reddit snark. What do either of us get out of that shit exchange?

[Anonymous No.13889599]

>>13886020
piazzale loreto

[Anonymous No.13889735]

>>13881134
They never offered serious opposition to Franco, but the guy who disarmed (and to an extent exterminated) the Spanish left was Stalin.

[Anonymous No.13889752]

>>13888390

>famine in the usa

Yeah, maybe they ate squirels but its not like 12 million pensylvanians "accidentally" died after an indoctrinated new yorker urban class took away all their food and shot all who wanted to milk their own cows.

Fucking commie FAGGOT

[Anonymous No.13889788]

>>13889545
And here comes "THE JEWS" shite too. Wow, who would've thunk it?

>>13889551
Are you serious? Are you really saying we should take care of your citizens instead of your own country? Can you not do it yourselves? I thought blacks were only 13% of the population? They're Americans, too, by the way. Shouldn't they have the same rights as you? It's guaranteed to them (it disgustingly took time for them to be recognised as human beings by your shithole) in your magic paper.

>>13889563
Communism is a, get this, stateless and classless society by definition. That's what I'm referring to. If it has a state it's not communism. Stop referring to it "colloquially" because it doesn't help anyone and makes you look like a mouth-breathing burger, you dumb fuck.

>>13889752
>"Yeah maybe but gommies!!!!"
Shut the fuck up, you moronic heifer.

[Anonymous No.13889789]

>>13889735
>Stalin disarmed the Spanish left
Where do you think the Republic got its arms from? The USSR (and Mexico). If you're mad he didn't distribute rifles and tanks to anarcho-retards who couldn't fight for shit though, he's guilty for sure.

[Anonymous No.13889800]

>>13889788
This is deeply embarrassing

[Anonymous No.13889805]

>>13889788

Commie gaytje. Go rob and starve someone else, nobody is interested.
have sex ... loser

[Anonymous No.13889809]

>>13889805
>>13889800
I've truly been put in my place. Better become a fascist now.

[Anonymous No.13889810]

Let's say they would have won.
They would have eventually lost the drive to work because since everyone got paid roughly the same there is not much of an incentive to work hard.This would have led to an oppressive hierarchy to make people work.
The only reason they worked hard was probably because of being threaten during war time.
They also purely produced commodities instead of machinery(means of production) which means society would have been stuck in time on top of having no access to foreign capital and being economically isolated.
So yeah 1934 anarchist spain in 2019 would look like 1934 spain. No tv, no phones, no computers, no internet, no cars...

[Anonymous No.13889825]

>>13889788
>Communism is stateless and classless!!
Yeah obviously. Are you fucking retarded? I referred to them as such for the reasons I just gave. And your pathetic attempt at fitting in here by saying 'burger' over and over despite my not being one does not disguise your redditry. So please stop. Anyway here's a Lenin quote from a comparable situation if that's what you need to stop acting like a spastic:
>No one, I think, in studying the question of the economic system of Russia, has denied its transitional character. Nor, I think, has any Communist denied that the term Soviet Socialist Republic implies the *determination* of the Soviet power to achieve the transition to socialism, and not that the existing economic system is recognised as a socialist order.

I.e. ASPIRATIONALITY, the 'line of march' Marx famously wrote of, is a valid category when it comes to designation. Particularly as a purely provisional means of identification in an anonymous imageboard. Twat.Your leftcom autism might be fun for you, but sometimes we need to speak to normal people.

[Anonymous No.13890026]

>>13889788
>And here comes "THE JEWS" shite too. Wow, who would've thunk it?
I mean, Bolshevism was largely a jewish movement highlighted by the fact that one of the first laws they passed was to make antisemitism illegal.
And yes I'm serious, take the black people if they are so great and diversity is your strength. America was created for free white men. It wasn't created as some liberal hub of freedom for fags and negroids.

[Anonymous No.13890076]

>All the atrocities my side committed were justified and, in fact, lenient because the other side committed atrocities. We should have murdered their kids and raped their wives even harder than we did, considering all the kid-murdering and wife-raping their side did.
>t. both sides

[Anonymous No.13890132]

>>13881134
ITT Retards who havent read the book and/or know next to nothing of the Spanish Civil War discussing

[Anonymous No.13890136]

>>13890076
this but unironically
t. one side

[Anonymous No.13890241]

>>13890076
nazi's didn't rape anybody

[Anonymous No.13890261]

>>13890241

[Anonymous No.13890263]

>>13881141
I would have hoped most on /lit/ would side with José Antonio.

[Anonymous No.13890354]

>>13890261
they didn't

[Anonymous No.13890410]

>>13890354https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_of_the_Wehrmacht#Mass_rape
sure anon, if there's a thing invading armies dont do, it's rape

[Anonymous No.13890614]

>>13890410
>wikipedia
not a legitimate source and completely run by jews

[Anonymous No.13890651]

>>13890614
cope, it links the sources

[Anonymous No.13890666]

>>13890651
then link those instead of your jew website, jew

[Anonymous No.13890680]

>>13890666
learn to internet retard

[Anonymous No.13890732]

>>13890680
go suck a bloody baby dick, jew

[Anonymous No.13891740]

>>13888826
If Franco's Spain was "unlivable", then USSR, China, Vietnam, Cuba and the wloke Eastern Block were hell on earth, right? And enyone who defends them is a an evil piece of shit, right?

[Anonymous No.13891819]

/leftypol/ refugee faggot brainlets fuck off

[Anonymous No.13891934]

>>13886020
Based as well as redpilled