/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.13844917]

What are some recommended books about the Holocaust?

[Anonymous No.13844975]

>>13844917
Leuchter Report

[Anonymous No.13844999]

>>13844917
Fiction Books

[Anonymous No.13845006]

[Anonymous No.13845013]

>>13844917
Mein kampf

[Anonymous No.13845045]

>>13844917
Hannah Arendt's Eichmann in Jerusalem
Evans' Third Reich Trilogy
Raul Hilberg's 3 Volume work on it
Norman Finkelstein's Holocaust Industry

[Anonymous No.13845048]

>>13845045
>Finkelstein

[Anonymous No.13845084]

>>13845045
Good list, I agree with this. Hilberg is the paradigm so if you are suspicious about the holocaust you should read him and see what you think. Scrutinize his footnotes and shit.

I've searched pretty hard for holocaust revisionism that stands on its own because I have a thing for underdog causes and fucking hate normies telling people what to think, but honestly, at least a lot of the death camp shit happened. There may be room for ambiguity, like maybe it's not quite six million or maybe Hitler didn't know and it was all Himmler, but more or less it was pretty bad. I think if you want to get into the interesting revisionism you have to focus on wider questions like, how abnormal was it? What were the stakes and why did the Nazis do this? Why did some think it was an apocalyptic conflict and they had no choice?

It's interesting to track David Irving's progress as a holocaust denier and then revisionist and then milder and milder revisionist. I think he basically accepts most of the holocaust now. But he was a big name sceptic for a very long time, and regardless of his stance, he always supports the right to question things.

Other good facts to know: Hilberg is a great scholar and he was not well liked by other Jews. Finkelstein was Hilberg's close friend and is also hated by Jews for what he wrote. Hilberg thought Hannah Arendt was a plagiarist cunt:
https://www.thenation.com/article/conscious-pariah/

[Anonymous No.13845092]

>>13845084
Here's Irving
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRcBzOOrqn4

[Anonymous No.13845097]

>>13845084
Interesting, can you tell more about non-orthodox or revisionist works you consider reliable?

[Anonymous No.13845116]

>>13845084
>Hilberg thought Hannah Arendt was a plagiarist cunt:

Her work on the holocaust was of course lifted from Hilberg, but she basically worships him in the text. Her book is interesting not for that, but for the framing of the failure of kantian morality in the third reich and Eichmann's story in general.

>>13845097
Richard Evans as noted above is not a revisionist to the extent that a /pol/ fan would like, but he reframes the holocaust into a different light.

You had pre-war, where not many jews died and resettlement was a very real ideal
You had the war in the east, which was essentially a huge bloodlands (Bloodlands by Tim Snyder illustrates the absolute chaos and population losses among all ethnicities in that arena).
You had einsatzgruppen, which were def hunting jews, communists, and partisans and commiting atrocities outside the veneer of the wermacht
You had work camps where there were real hygiene and supply problems
You had death camps, which did exist. But to say 6 million died at deathcamps is where the real problem comes, when Hilberg thought it was between 4.9 and 5.1 million throughout the whole total war which took place in the pale of settlement. And Finkelstein points out this ridiculousness and the inflationary methods used by spielbergian elements to support israel.

[Anonymous No.13845140]

>>13845116
If you need /lit/ tier camp porn for a class btw, Primo Levi far surpasses Elie Wiesel

[Anonymous No.13845148]

>>13845097
There aren't very many. Most of the interesting and reliable people are the ones supporting the RIGHT to question, and voicing scepticism, but I've never come across anything that seemed like slam-dunk evidence that it's outright impossible for the mainstream narrative to be basically true.

A few try to situate Nazi atrocities in a context that allows them to be disregarded as "abnormal" and therefore not authentically a part of German history. Probably the most noteworthy is Ernst Nolte, known for the Historikerstreit:
https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/2809-domenico-losurdo-ernst-nolte-and-the-development-of-revisionism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historikerstreit

If you look at this you start to see that what's really interesting about these debates is not so much the specific facts, as the fact that anti-revisionists are the original "deplatforming" movement. The debate isn't about right and wrong, it's about whether revisionists should even be allowed to speak, or whether it's even possible to consider revisionism for any reason other than manipulative cryptoantisemitism. Along these battle lines, political sympathies are subtly visible. Ernst Nolte was definitively conservative, and the tip of an iceberg of Germans who quietly resented their mandatory sentence of eternal self-loathing as penance for the holocaust. That's the real battle that was being waged under the surface at the height of these debates. Can we speak our minds and air our doubts in our own countries? Or is our media and government so obsessed with bourgeois samokritika that they will purge all internal dissent without even having to be forced to?

You probably would want to look at Carlo Mattogno if anything:
>The German historian Ernst Nolte was impressed by Mattogno's work, due to which he conceded that, with respect to "their mastery of the source material and especially in their critique of the sources," the revisionist studies on the topic "probably surpass those of the established historians in Germany" (Streitpunkte, Frankfurt/Berlin 1993, p. 304). And Jean-Claude Pressac, once the orthodox historian's hero for his attempts at refuting revisionists, characterized Carlo Mattogno as "the best revisionist researcher" ("Entretien avec Jean-Claude Pressac," in: Valérie Igounet, Histoire du négationnisme en France, Paris 2000, p. 642).
https://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?author_id=5

The Irving is really worth watching. He has a lifetime of extreme mastery over sources nobody else had access to. Finkelstein called him a useful "devil's advocate." He's also a fascinating and charismatic guy, if an asshole.

I'm hesitant to link this:
https://archive.org/details/OneThirdOfTheHolocaustHDVideoHQSound
because it simplistically debunks Hilberg and can lead to kneejerk laziness but he does scrutinize Hilberg's footnotes. Definitely don't solely watch this.

>>13845116
Good post again.

[Anonymous No.13845150]

>>13845116
Also Evans points out that Hungary, the Baltic States (esp lithuania) Poland, the Ukraine, Romania, and the Balkans all had autonomous militias that happily went after the jews pogrom style, and that the soviets had problems bulldozing jewish villages. When you start clumping all this shit with demographic changes resulting from mass jewish flight to the americas and a loss of the paperwork from the war, the numbers get really wonky.

[Anonymous No.13845186]

>>13845116
>But to say 6 million died at deathcamps is where the real problem comes

Good thing nobody says that. Around 1 million was killed by einsatzgruppe and many died in ghettos, pogroms in Eastetn Europe, randomly in bombings etc.

About half of Jews could have died in the camps, which only really started mass killings later in the war.

[Anonymous No.13845192]

>>13845186
Thats the hollywood line that has settled in the popular mindset. there is no nuance in normie scholarship, to the point when demographic studies become immediately revisionist.

[Anonymous No.13845513]

Hillberg got destroyed during cross in the 1985 Zundel trial. Track down a copy of the manuscript, it's amazing.

[Anonymous No.13845538]

>>13845513
>Hillberg was forced
Hillberg was always a functionalist, you fucking retards.

[Anonymous No.13845692]

>>13845192
you're not really helping your case when you illustrate it with a plaque that was removed 30 years ago. the "popular line" isn't six million dead in camps, it's six million dead altogether, which isn't exactly some ridiculous exaggeration compared to the five million you just quoted yourself.

[Anonymous No.13845700]

>>13844917
Not sure about that, but you have to wonder; what kind of people make commercial success from the stories of their genocide? What kind of people make an enterprise out of tragedy?
Not people who deserve or even need my empathy, I wager.

[Anonymous No.13845705]

>>13845148
>Irving is really worth watching. He has a lifetime of extreme mastery over sources nobody else had access to.
but what's the use of this when he's been shown to intentionally misquote and mistranslate these sources? you can neither trust him or verify it by yourself.

[Anonymous No.13845706]

>>13845692
The difference is that SIX MILLION is a "theological" (compare to protestant retardation) number that allows Jewish autists to justify the founding of Israel / return.

[Anonymous No.13845730]

>>13845513
Agreed with >>13845538 that this is the kind of shit that isn't helpful.

Also, holocaust denial is such a red herring. It's one big trap to make right wing people out themselves as crazy people to the mainstream. Obviously a lot about it is bullshit, and not being able to question it is retarded and totalitarian, but these two true problems with the Holocaust industry make it just tempting enough for right wing people to dive into it, and then for every legitimate point they make, 99% of mainstream normies go "oh he's one of THOSE people??"

[Anonymous No.13845731]

>>13845700
>What kind of people make an enterprise out of tragedy?

[Anonymous No.13845756]

>>13845731
Circumcised people, it seems.

[Anonymous No.13845758]

>>13845706
that's a sudden goalpost shift from "the popular opinion is factually wrong" to "the popular opinion is approximately factually correct but gets abused politically"

[Anonymous No.13845762]

>>13845731
>all those pearl Harbor museums bringing millions of dollars to the evil anglos
>all that Pearl Harbor propaganda pushed to all Asian races to make them hate themselves
Not really seeing it.

[Anonymous No.13845769]

>>13845758
From that it is.
I don't think that more than 200 000 jews died in Europe during WW2, however. It's just a boogieman story used to traumatize children and make them hate themselves.

[Anonymous No.13845773]

>>13845731
Directed by Michael Bay (Jewish)

Produced by
Michael Bay (Jewish)
Jerry Bruckheimer (Jewish)

Written by Randall Wallace

Music by Hans Zimmer (Jewish)

Cinematography John Schwartzman (Jewish)

Edited by
Chris Lebenzon (Jewish)
Mark Goldblatt (Jewish)
Steven Rosenblum (Jewish)
Roger Barton (can't determine)

Production companies
Touchstone Pictures (Disney vassal; acquired under CEO Eisner, Jewish, now under CEO Iger, Jewish)
Jerry Bruckheimer Films (Jew owned)

Distributed by
Buena Vista Pictures (now Disney)

[Anonymous No.13845841]

>>13845692
what's a million here and a million there

[Anonymous No.13845853]

>>13845758
there are more IPs here than you are accounting for

[Anonymous No.13845859]

>>13844917
http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-holocaust-denial/

[Anonymous No.13845865]

>>13845700
Bruh

[Anonymous No.13845868]

>>13844917

[Anonymous No.13845876]

If This Is A Man is essential reading,

[Anonymous No.13845884]

>>13845756
all foreskins present and accounted for on this one. the correct answer is everyone. everyone does this all the time.

>>13845762
if it's immoral to profit from tragedy then it is immoral to profit at all, not just profit greatly.

>>13845773
now do this one and then all the other ones from random shitholes all over the world where they don't even have enough jews around to form one film crew. everyone's selling everything they've got everywhere, from "my rape" to "my nation's genocide", you're just prevented by your jew fetish from noticing non-jewish examples.

[Anonymous No.13845888]

>>13845853
you're right, i was assuming i was still speaking to the well-read anon but i guess the usual retards are here now.

[Anonymous No.13845890]

>>13845884
was that movie good

[Anonymous No.13845906]

>>13845841
a reasonable margin of error when approximating the number of dead in a conflict that spanned continents and resulted in major migrations and mass destruction of records.

[Anonymous No.13845946]

>>13845890
i struggle to remember any of it. i think it got good reviews because, hey, wajda is old school and he's probably going to croak soon so let's just give him four stars for old times' sake.

[Anonymous No.13845954]

>>13845769
That wouldnt even cover regular civilian deaths from misfires in Poland

[Anonymous No.13846144]

[Anonymous No.13846285]

>>13845868
This

[Anonymous No.13846291]

reminder that the actual dilemma is

work camp vs death camp

[Anonymous No.13846340]

>>13845890
Come and See is spectacular.

[Anonymous No.13847059]

>>13845954
You got any citations for that?

[Anonymous No.13847115]

holocausts for dummies: a guide for the rest of us
learn to:
start your own holocaust
basic holocausting
getting the most out of your holocaustants
what to do when things go wrong

[Anonymous No.13847500]

Separation and Its Discontents: Toward an Evolutionary Theory of Anti-Semitism

[Anonymous No.13847537]

>>13844917
spark of life - erich maria remarque

[Anonymous No.13847573]

>>13845116
>>13845148
who are these two kike cunts I see them everywhere

[Anonymous No.13848845]

How the FUCK do i write black characters?

[Anonymous No.13848860]

>>13848845
Whoops meant to post a thread.

[Anonymous No.13850169]

>>13845084
What's your take on One Third of the Holocaust? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3JdI7Ahp3o

[Anonymous No.13850245]

Inside the Concentration Camps is a compilation of interview excerpts. It is the source material for countless historical fiction books and movies. The sheer volume of material lends to deconstruction of the Jewish dialectic surrounding the Holocaust. Their stories, when viewed as a whole, do not lend towards credibility.

[Anonymous No.13850405]

>>13844999
checked and kek'd

[Anonymous No.13850450]

>>13845954
>deaths from misfires
What does this mean? That you were over-run because your weapon failed to fire? The proximal cause of death is something other than a failure to fire. This wreaks of obfuscation.

[enthd !O7oPfw.EKk No.13850456]

have you read the ball jar??

[Anonymous No.13850487]

>>13845692
See, six million isn't that much man.
Eight million? What do you mean there weren't ten million Jews killed in the holodomor? Did you know twelve to fifteen million perished in the early forties?