Dune

[Anonymous No.13836921]

I just finished the Dune trilogy for the first time, and I wonder what /lit/ thinks about two things:

1. How come Dune and Children of Dune are so good, but Messiah is so...inconsequential? It feels like barely anything happened at all and the whole thing reads as if Herbert felt like he *had* to write it in order to get back to the good stuff, while in fact after the abrupt ending to Dune I had expected and was looking forward to seeing the difficult decisions Paul would have to make in his Jihad.

2. Is Herbert bad at writing endings? Dune's ending feels like his editor told him he had to wrap it up in 10 pages, Messiah's ending feels the same, and Children's ending was nothing more than sequel bait.

Also, what would you recommend to someone who enjoyed the world-building and strong codes of honor and loyalty in Dune, but could do without the 'lol telepathic babies' and 'the 12 year old God is a Power Ranger now' aspects of the story? Are the other Dune books worth reading? Are there any other (preferably sci-fi) stories with that atmosphere? I already read and loved Card's Ender's Game.

[Anonymous No.13837640]

Thought this board was supposed to be slow, but it's already on page 8.

[Anonymous No.13838063]

>>13836921
most people here aren't interested into scifi but I'll give you a (you).

1. The dune series follows a cyclical structure. The odd numbers set up a new grand messiah narrative while the even numbers are meant to smash any hopes you had for the future and realize the disastrous consequences of what you naively thought was going to be a great idea. Paul turns into a cowardly bitch and you'll have to read four to see what happens to the promise of the golden path.

Really Dune isn't a complete work it only makes sense in the context of messiah.

[Anonymous No.13838072]

>>13836921
2. You are absolutely right the ending of the first novel did feel rather rushed but I think that's mostly because Frankie doesn't really give a shit about describing battles. I can't really remember the ending of Messiah but I remember Children's was really fucking good.

I would really recommend you go ahead and read Emperor. It's dreary and depressing but it's really good.

I don't read too much Genre fiction so I'm not too sure what else you could read.

[Anonymous No.13838466]

They were serials in magazines before they were novels, at least the first three. This imposes some limit on endings and forces a sort of short story style ending on a long work. If you get 50 pages per issue for your work, the last last episode will not go over well if it is nothing but ending, or just a massive battle. So you reduce the ending to 10 pages and have 40 pages of story, it is not ideal, but it provided a way for an unknown author to get their foot in the door.

This is fairly common in old SF.

[Anonymous No.13838486]

>>13836921
>but Messiah is so...inconsequential?

>Hey, Stilgar, my dude
>I have, er, like, eh... You see this Genghis Khan dude? Hitler? All the mass genocides for nothing? I have just genocided over 50 billion human beans. 50 fucking billion people slaughtered by my fremen all over the Universe. Do you know how history will remember me? What I have done? And if I wouldn't do it, it would be even worse, but then I got those prophetic visions...The worms... I... I just can't... And every fucking day I see the only human bean I can relate to die in childbirth. For like a dozen years already.
>What do you mean "who cares mashAllah?!"
>Nobody gets my feels
>Fuck you. Fuck you all, Imma going inna desert.
>Oh holy shit what had I gave birth to I can't even see the little guy with my prophetic vision, the future is beyond fucked by him

Messiah was the best book for me in the series. Maximum amount of feels on the spot.

[Anonymous No.13838503]

>>13836921
You can read the Jesus Incident co-written by Herbert for something kinda related (a good vidya "Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri" was inspired by /plagiarized it). Though it tackles ecology and social control in less baroque ways.

[Anonymous No.13838618]

>>13838063
I didn't mind Paul becoming a 'cowardly bitch' as it fit very well with the grander narrative, as you mentioned. What I did mind was how the narrative focus was on some lame murder plot instead of the burdens that came with the Jihad. I feel like Messiah can just be skipped as long as you know 1. Paul exiles himself to the desert and 2. Paul has some magical kids.

>>13838072
I'm thinking I'm in it for the long haul. I didn't even enjoy reading Dune that much while I was reading it, but at the end of each book I find myself being glad that there's more of them. On to Emperor it is. I heard it's recommended to stop at Heretic though since Chapterhouse ends on another cliffhanger?

>>13838466
I had no idea. That certainly explains the abrupt ending, though I kind of wish he'd have rewritten it after the fact when it was released as a novel.

[Anonymous No.13838622]

>>13836921
FUCK OFF WITH THIS GARBAGE """"""LITERATURE"""""

[Anonymous No.13838628]

>>13838622
Or else what? You'll spill tear water everywhere?

[Anonymous No.13838630]

This thread is making me want to read Dune again so I can finally read all the (Frank) sequels, fucking hell I'm too busy for 5 book marathon

[Anonymous No.13838631]

>>13836921
>but Messiah is so...inconsequential?

the guild, bene gesserit, bene tleilax and a princess - daughter of the deposed emperor - are plotting against someone who can see the fucking future.

the atreides jihad is in full force

the freaking tleilaxu brought Duncan BACK FROM THE DEAD

Paul survives a personal atomic attack

... yeah, not much happening here.

[Anonymous No.13838632]

>>13838630
read them one at a time, then, you basic bitch

[Anonymous No.13838699]

>>13838618
>I kind of wish he'd have rewritten it after the fact
There probably was no money in it for him, he was raising a family and working a full time job as well as writing on the side, no one would release it, he finally found a publisher when Chilton, the publisher of the well known car repair manuals, decided to give him a chance and to expand their publishing empire beyond car repair manuals and into fiction. He supposedly did do a fair amount of rewriting, but I somewhat question that since the modern SF market loves to have things to release and I would expect someone would have gotten the rights to release the original pulp version by now if there were any significant differences. I suspect there was not much rework actually done, likely just removing some rehashing, that each part of the serial likely started with and stitched things together so there was not obvious starting and stopping points throughout the novel where the months episode of the serial ended.