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/lit/ - Literature

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13815417 No.13815417 [Reply] [Original]

I’ve never read a philosophical text in my life.
I’m assuming this is a good starting point.
What are /lit/‘s tips on reading philosophy for beginners?
I can only assume that I should not approach this text in the same way I approach a novel.

>> No.13815424

>>13815417
Partake in the dialogue

>> No.13815440

>>13815424
Do you mean to say that when reading, I should think of how I would respond as if I was a part of the conversation?

>> No.13815445

>>13815440
yes, think more than you read

>> No.13815822

>>13815417
>I’ve never read a philosophical text in my life.
>I’m assuming this is a good starting point.
Wrong.

>> No.13815899

>>13815417
you need to read a few dialogues before you tackle republic. start with Euthyphro and the trial and death of socrates. Dover has a nice cheap edition of this.

>>13815424
>>13815445
based

>> No.13815909

>>13815417
The Republic is long for a Plato text. Start with one of the dialogues that can be read in 15 minutes.

>> No.13816500

Buy a notebook and make notes and elucidations.

>> No.13816520

>>13815899
This. Thrasylus' order of the dialogues should generally be followed if you're coming in cold, as it will let you work up to the larger/more complex works. Diving straight into Republic without first getting the lay of the land will be difficult, doubly so for someone with no experience reading philosophy whatsoever.

>> No.13816532

>>13815417
Read "How to read a book" first

>> No.13816569

>>13816500
What sort of things should you make notes about?

>> No.13816592

>>13815424
It's barely a dialogue. 90% of what others besides Socrates say is "why yes Socrates this is indeed right". I would imagine irl they would have tons of objections and corrections.

>> No.13816619

>>13815417
have sex

>> No.13816625

>>13816619
You know, people like you bring down the level of this board to a place that is even shittier than I would have comprehended as being possible a year or two ago. What a pity. You should really give some honest thought to killing yourself.

>> No.13816654

>>13816569
About the philosophy. Start with definitions of basic concepts. Then show how the philosopher develops their ideas.

>> No.13816724

>>13816592
A) Socrates wasnt a normal person or conversationalist. He would literally follow people spouting ideas. It's likely many of his conversations were pretty much just him 90% of the time
B) People occasionally do disagree, but are shut down pretty quick by Socrates. They probably just gave up.

>> No.13817056
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13817056

>>13815417
first read books summarizing philosophy like

Philosophy: A Very Short Introduction
Nigel Warburtons Philosophy: The Basics
A Little History of Philosophy
Thomas Nagels What Does It All Mean?: A Very Short Introduction to Philosophy
History of Western Philosophy - Bertrand Russell
B. Russell, The Problems of Philosophy
The Story of Philosophy - Will Durant
New History of Western Philosophy - Anthony Kenny
F. Copleston, A History of Philosophy

then start with the presocratics, but by first reading a book that summarizes the presocratics like Presocratic Philosophy - A Very Short Introduction

basically you wanna read summaries explaining shit before you jump into the actual text

i haven't ready any of these so i probably don't know what i'm talking about

hope this helps

>> No.13817070

>>13817056
>i haven't ready any of these so i probably don't know what i'm talking about

ladies and gentlemen, lit

>> No.13817265

>>13816625
What is irony you fucking midwit :D

>> No.13817420

Don’t ‘approach it’

Just open the cover and read the words enclosed.

>> No.13819079

>>13815417
After Plato what else?

>> No.13819143

>>13819079
Xenophon, then Aristotle

>> No.13819831

>>13815899

Is the Trial and Death of Socrates the same as the Last Days of Socrates? How is the Symposium for a starting point?

>> No.13819912

>>13817056
A history of western philosophy is fucking huge mate, you are retarded.

>> No.13819923

>>13819831
yeah. same thing. hackett has a good edition.

symposium is not where you want to start. you want to know the truth which plato/socrates are seeking before you start accepting their thoughts on love..

>> No.13819930

>>13819831

the last days of socrates is a penguin publication, right? I have that and includes Phaedo an apparently later dialogue but connected.

It has Euthyphro/Apology/Crito/Phaedo

I believe the Trial and Death is just the first three.

>> No.13819943

>>13817056

As someone who has read a fair bit of Plato and is only know reading through The History of Western Philosophy, I really didn't need the pre-socratic context or the summaries of socrates and plato.

They are interesting and could potentially aid someone, but it's generally the background as to why they wanted to ask these questions and why that made them controversial or lauded within their own era etc.

It's as the title suggests, mainly historical context, you will not understand the socratic elenchus any better.

>> No.13819953

>>13817056
>i believe you must read twenty different summaries of a thing before reading the thing
>btw i don't read
i can see why

>> No.13819959
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13819959

>>13815417
I started with it in year 9 I think and really enjoyed it. Had ADD so some parts felt as if he was really whacking you over the head with the tripartite soul but still a masterpiece and I really enjoyed it.

Pic unrelated.

>> No.13819964

>>13819912
Seconded. Read “History of Philosophy” concurrently with, not before, reading primary philosophical texts. And preferably with at least a little understanding of classical languages (I had to do a LOT of google translate).

>> No.13820026

>>13819930
Phaedo is the death of Socrates. These 4 books are a really good start to philosophy. Also, read F. Copleston "A History of Philosophy" Vol.1 to better elucidate Plato's metaphysics, politics and psychology.

I think it is better to read about the Pre-Socratics and Sophists in Copleston before reading Plato. Then read Plato, then read on Plato in Copleston and then Aristotles in Copleston (if you eventually wish to continue reading Aristotle's works, which are quite complicated, as he didn't have the same oeuvre of exceptional poetic writing as Plato did in his dialogues at least.

>> No.13820061

>>13815417
Beyond good and evil is a good starting point for absolute beginners.

>> No.13820137

>>13815417
No, Republic is long. Start with shorter dialogues like Symposium.

>> No.13820306

>>13815417
Started with the republic (okay I read lysis before but it doesnt count?). In my opinion politeia is perfect for beginners. It is really fun to read because often socrates has discussions you probably also had with your friends-difference being that socrates was actually smart. Fuck they even had the "what if you had superpowers" discussion in there. I bet you had that one with your friends atleast once. It is a masterpiece my dude, I realised that plato literally shaped millenia. This is probably as influential as the bible is. A must read for every westerner

>> No.13820314

>>13817070
>>13819953
you should read a few

>> No.13820455

I haven't read it yet but I suggest to read ancient Greek history and history of ancient philosophy to understand the historical and cultural context first. It helps knowing what was the world like during Plato's life.

>> No.13820485

>>13815417
LOL, Seriously DONT READ PLATO
LISTEN TO PLATO
Only history majors could be as autistic as to READ A SET OF PLAYS

>> No.13820496

>>13816532
Highly recommended

>> No.13820515

>>13816532
How will that help him understand a play?

>> No.13820534

>>13820485
>>13820515
the dialogues aren't plays, moron. do you even know what a greek play looked like?

>> No.13820545

>>13820534
>Dialogues werent plays
>Dialouges
>Plays
Anon, Im sorry youre this retarded
I guess you think Poptarts arent sandwiches either

>> No.13820594

>>13820485
Is this bait?
They’re not plays you retard they’re theoretical conversations between people used as a method of conveying ideas

>> No.13820622

>>13820594
>He thinks theres a difference
anon..I
Seriously, You read the plays in Hexadecimal style, it makes way more sense

>> No.13820675

>>13815417
>What are /lit/‘s tips on reading philosophy for beginners?
Go for what sounds interesting to you, getting into it will draw you to the foundation stuff eventually. You don't start watching movies at Eisenstein, you start watching movies and then decide you need to watch Eisenstein.

>> No.13820684

>>13820675
Eisenstein is a confessed fraud and theif

>> No.13820733

>>13820545
simply containing reported speech does not make something a play, a play is a literary form that follows specific rules and is written to be performed theatrically. theatrical performance in ancient greece involved elaborate music, singing, dancing and costumes and was tied to specific religious festivals. there isn't a shred of evidence that any of this was ever done to platonic dialogues let alone was the intended way to receive them and the texts themselves are absolutely unfit to be staged in this way for many reasons: that they're prose whereas all plays were in verse, that they're impractically long, that they contain little to no physical action, that they don't have a chorus whereas a chorus was the bedrock of ancient greek theatre from which everything else sprang, that they don't follow any of the other formal constraints to which all greek plays of this period were bound and so on. the dialogues were written to be read, not performed theatrically. there's no doubt that some of the reading would be out loud and in public, since the greeks enjoyed doing that during drinking parties, but they did that to everything inducing herodotus or thucydides, and that doesn't make narrative history into a play nor does it mean that narrative history must be listened to and not read.

>> No.13820771

It's worth reading, but not on it's own as a first text.
Start with 2-3 introductory textbooks to get a good idea of major basic positions, arguments and fallacies and how things fit together.
Find a college level survey of western philosophy. You can pick one with excerpts to get exposed to different style of writings. Pick one that isn't trying to argue only a particular position. One good one i had was by Louis Pojman.I also recommend a college level introductory text in analytic philosophy. Very helpful to me in progressing.
Be sure to read lots of science. I've learned philosophy is very useful in reasoning with facts but you still need to learn facts to reason with.

>> No.13820855

>hey i want to read philosophy
>NO STOP don't read philosophy, just read a pile of college textbooks until you know the official canonical modern interpretation of every work by every philosopher and then once you know what you're supposed to think you can optionally read the actual philosophers just for flavor. i mean you wouldn't get too far in philosophy if you had to actually engage with people's thoughts, am i right?

>> No.13820967

if you don't build a foundation you'll be lost

>> No.13821162

>>13819143
What books should I start with them?

>> No.13821237

Read out loud. Take notes. Start with Plato, but don't start with The Republic.

>> No.13821242
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13821242

>>13821237
I just ordered this

>> No.13821259

>>13821242
You made a good choice. Although you should have just got the $50 Hackett complete works edition so you don't have to keep buying a new book every time you read a new dialogue and also so there's no overlap.
It sounds expensive, but it's a one time purchase, considering you're getting all 25+ of his dialogues in one volume.

>> No.13821301

>>13815417
Plato is a good start, but start from the four shorter dialogues: Euthyphro, Apology, Crito, Phaedo. The Republic can be hard if you have no previous knowledge of philosophy.

>> No.13821310

>>13821242
Also a good alternative to the Hackett complete edition is the Oxford editions. They each have like 50 pages of explanatory notes in the back that really holds your hand through some of the more complex dialogues like Gorgias or Theaetetus.

>> No.13821314

>>13821259
You know what, this is a really good idea. I ordered through amazon so I can return this and order that

>> No.13821320

>>13816592
why yes this is indeed right

>> No.13821386

>>13821242
that is a good choice if you want to start reading philosophy

>> No.13821390

>>13821314
I suggest you keep the Republic and order the other one, if you can. The Republic is a fantastic book and deserves to be read - also, I would say if you study a little bit of the five dialogues you'd be ready to have a good reading experience with Republic.

>> No.13821406

>>13821390
The Republic is included in the complete edition though.

>> No.13821416

>>13821390
I’ll keep the Republic simply because if I ever want to take it with me somewhere I won’t have to lug a big hardcover book with me.
>>13821386
I actually just ordered the Hackett completely works. Is there any reason to keep this 5 dialogues book or should I send it back?

>> No.13821438

>>13821416
The 5 dialogues book is also published by Hackett, so they're literally just taking the same text and translation that would be in the complete edition. Footnotes and everything.

>> No.13821768
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13821768

>>13816532
>be me
>analphabet
>want to learn to read
>read "How to read a book"
>dont understand anything because i cant read the book
>mfw

>> No.13821804

>>13821242
good.

that's exactly the hackett i mentioned before. that's the right place to start. if you want some fun, read gorgias and parmenides afterwards.