/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.13804796]

What are some other examples of the Übermensch in anime? The only one I know of for sure is Kaiba from Yu-Gi-Oh!

[Anonymous No.13804797]

There are no depictions of ubermensch in anime because characters like Kaiba are always defeated by the compassionate and Christlike protagonists

[Anonymous No.13804815]

>>13804797
Kaiba eithet kills God or turns God into his servant all the fucking time though. His character arc isn't about beating the God Atem, it is about conquering his own hate and the extent of his own agency and self-determination.

[Anonymous No.13804818]

Shinji from NGE. People think Ubermensche means some kind of Machiavellian athlete-scientist. Unironically, crybaby Shinji is the actual closest thing we have to an Ubermensche in fiction. He is the only character I am aware of who faced nihilism in a intimate personal confrontation, digested it, and then affirmed the world into being as a god-man.

[Anonymous No.13804820]

>>13804796
Saiki from the anime Saiki kusuo no nan.

And also Gendo Ikari from Evangelion.

[Anonymous No.13804822]

>>13804818
He rejects godhood though

[Anonymous No.13804826]

>>13804820
Gendo was great, but still human, all too human. Shinji is unironically the Ubermensche, a crybaby Ubermensche who genuinely overcame his own humanity.

[Anonymous No.13804838]

>>13804822
If he had rejected Godhood the whole world would have dissolved. The fact that the world exists at the end reflects his choice for godhood. But godhood in this case means also affirming limited human life. It's a paradox of sorts, but a real god would choose to be man, would choose limitation after tasting infinity.

[Anonymous No.13804840]

>>13804818
I'm sorry but faced nihilism don't make you ubermensche according to Zarathoustra.

[Anonymous No.13804846]

>>13804838
That’s interesting. We could interpret it as being akin to God’s decision to incarnate as Christ in abrahamic theology

[Anonymous No.13804850]

>>13804840
He faced it and overcame it, and chose the world rather than the infinite beyond. He chose to "go under" like Zarathustra. He is the Ubermensche.

[Anonymous No.13804853]

>>13804826
Wait... maybe you right.. Tell me more about that !

[Anonymous No.13804855]

>>13804846
It's eerily similar, but somehow an inverted version of it. Since Christ seeks to lead men beyond, he seeks humble followers like the SEELE (they would represent Christians), but Shinji affirms limited human existence as such, not as a means of attaining Heaven

[Anonymous No.13804862]

it's just a cartoon, you guys.

[Anonymous No.13804864]

>>13804846
>>13804838
Although I do also need to add that it was Lilith who carried Shinji’s will out in instrumentality. Gendo reveals his vulnerability and dies after Lilith rejects him, and Lilith is essentially “Mother Nature in NGE” so idk if an ubermensch comparison can be made since shinji’s power over humanity depends entirely on nature choosing to serve him

[Anonymous No.13804871]

>>13804862
>iT's JuSt A bOoK wItH wOrDs YoU gUyS

[Anonymous No.13804874]

>>13804796

[Anonymous No.13804883]

>>13804862
HE IS READING THE BOOK IN THE FUCKING SHOW WHY IS THIS IN A CARD GAME ANIME?

[Anonymous No.13804884]

>>13804864
Well nature, being feminine, naturally seeks the strong man, the great man to serve. The fact that nature chose Shinji shows that he is the Ubermensche imo. There seems to be some interesting parallels to Tantra here as well

[Anonymous No.13804911]

>>13804855
What about the stuff like SEELE being associated with Kabbalist symbols and the leader of SEELE literally being a Nazi doctor (Konrad Lorenz=Keele Lorenz)? What about stuff like Shinji staring at the cross in his hand as he chooses to reject instrumentality? I’ll add that in that scene, he and Lilith/Rei are joined together. When he says he wants to impose individuality again, he pushes Rei off of him and you see them become individual human beings again. It recalls Christ’s statement that he came to divide people to me.
I agree with you that evangelion is against religious escapism and being lead “into the beyond,” but an idea I’ve been working with is that the Bible contradicts itself between advocating for individuality and connection between people to religious escapism by seeking an existence completely free of suffering. I think the truth lies in the former, and that if Christ came, that he advocated for the former as opposed to the latter, which has been added by people who either sought to deceive people or had the overly pessimistic worldview that everyone in NGE has prior to instrumentality. Anno didn’t know much about Christianity when he made NGE but had knowledge of Kabbalah myth and commented on the corrupted Buddhism of the aum shinrikyo, comparing them to anime fans. He did however read Kierkegaard and directly copies his philosophy at various points in NGE, and my understanding of the Kierk is that he advocates for the same conclusion that shinji comes to when rejecting instrumentality, and that this is the moral path — the one that Kierkegaard came to by studying Christianity extensively, while likely discarding stuff like “being lead into the beyond”

[Anonymous No.13804918]

>>13804838
>If he had rejected Godhood the whole world would have dissolved
I think it only would have ceased to be observed, had he stayed in the soup. What he accepted was being separate from other people.

[Anonymous No.13804928]

>>13804911
Well, yeah, that would be a different view of Christ than the one held by mainstream Christians. I like your view, but I was referencing the mainstream one. A lot of my views on this show were inspired by a book I recently read that had a chapter on NGE. He didn't directly state the things I'm saying exactly, but it suggests it if you follow that line of thought. I can post some screencaps if you want

[Anonymous No.13804929]

anime fans have overstayed their welcome

[Anonymous No.13804936]

>>13804918
>What he accepted was being separate from other people
Exactly. He affirmed individual limited existence, personal world-affirmation, even though he could have chose divine bliss and indistinction (the "soup" seems to be compare a lot to sexual union in the show, the bliss of losing your individuality in another person).

[Anonymous No.13804951]

>>13804928
Screen caps would be great. Thanks for explaining everything you’ve spoken about so far to me anon

[Anonymous No.13804957]

>>13804951

[Anonymous No.13804962]

>>13804957

[Anonymous No.13804968]

>>13804962

[Anonymous No.13804970]

Reinhardt

[Anonymous No.13804990]

>>13804936
Yeah it’s interesting, I think there’s commentary made on the desire to transition as well, there’s like half a second where after shinji imposes instrumentality he sees a bunch of Rei clones and then it switches to him seeing a bunch of clones of himself before he starts growing female genitalia. In addition there’s Gendo’s desire to unify and become one with his wife. I don’t think Anno is making a /pol/ tier commentary by calling out trans people, I think he moreso inadvertently depicts something that relates to the trend of “discord trannies” who literally advocate for instrumentality through acceleration towards transhumanism. I think he identifies more of a misplaced suicidality where men in these escapist cultures (most relevantly to NGE, anime fandom) suffer and feel lonely due to lacking affection from women, come to hate themselves because they feel they can’t be loved (see Gendo’s confession to Yui before he dies), and seek to supplant the self that can’t be loved with the self they idealize as perfect, which is the female self they envision as providing the nurturing and love that they need

[Anonymous No.13805007]

>>13804968
Which book is this?

[Anonymous No.13805012]

>>13805007
Prometheus and Atlas by Jason Reza Jorjani. It's pretty out there, deals with a lot of paranormal stuff which most people would probably find off putting, but I loved it. It was a really great read.

[Anonymous No.13805053]

Yep this pretty much takes the cake. A pseudo who watched anime. Try to be less of a stereotype

[Anonymous No.13805060]

Goku

[Anonymous No.13805084]

>>13804822
It takes strength to resist the temptation of power.

[Anonymous No.13805108]

>>13804970
>watching this show for the first time
>now I finally know where that "Guards, this women has lost her composure" reaction pic comes from

[Anonymous No.13805132]

>>13804957
>>13804962
>>13804968
>>13805012
This is great; thanks for sharing. I'm a big fan of Sartre but I've never applied the concept of nausea to NGE though it seems to fit so well.
Might have to give the book a read.

[Anonymous No.13805335]

>>13805132
Not who you were talking to, but I got memed into buying it. I've only finished reading the introduction and so far it sounds like Jorjani has interesting takes on science and technology. It's the sort of book girardfag would be joyfully interested in reading and discussing in a cosmotech thread.

[Anonymous No.13805344]

>>13805335
I'm probably the one who memed you into buying. I'm trying to get people to read it so I have other anons to chat with about it. What thread made you want to read it?

[Anonymous No.13805346]

>>13804815
Does he actually say all of that?

[Anonymous No.13805405]

>>13805346
Yes, after blowing up a jet with a hologram of a gigatinc 3 headed white dragon

[Anonymous No.13805542]

>>13805344
One of the esoterism generals, but I'm the kind of person who browsed /cosmotech/ generals and likes to read hot takes on philosophy of technology.

[Anonymous No.13805611]

Dont hVe a picture, but that Sakamoto kun was as ubersmench as it can gets and never fell anything close to mercy just fairness

[Anonymous No.13805632]

GARY MOTHERFUCKING OAK

[Anonymous No.13805649]

>>13804820
Is that Saiki anime good? I scroll past it on Netflix all the time.

[Anonymous No.13805655]

>>13804874
Based.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWt5WB7wtJ0

[Anonymous No.13805814]

>>13804796
Umaru

[Anonymous No.13805815]

>>13804883
If you had actually read Thus Spoke Zarathustra, like Kaiba, you'd know that no living human being can be an Übermensch or portray one in art.

Kaiba is a man striving to "build himself a creator of values", which Nietzsche admires but is not 'becoming the Übermensch'.

It's explained in the first part of the book for fuck's sake.

[Anonymous No.13806027]

>>13805542
Yeah, that was most likely me. I got them to add it to the reading list too

[Anonymous No.13806090]

>>13804815
Fucking hell, Kaiba is such a capitalist Chad.

[Anonymous No.13806100]

>/lit/
>/anime/

[Anonymous No.13806174]

>>13806090
Not really. This is the kind of speech you can expect any tech CEO to give during a presentation of a new game console at E3.

[Anonymous No.13806478]

>>13804815
This is absolutely retarded, babby’s first gnosticism

[Anonymous No.13806491]

[Anonymous No.13806496]

[Anonymous No.13806632]

>>13804796
is he the roman caesar with the soul of christ?

[Anonymous No.13807805]

>>13804796

[Anonymous No.13807857]

>>13804815
>When people are born, their souls are housed in vessels known as flesh.
Is Kaiba a Gnostic?

[Anonymous No.13807861]

>>13804796

[Anonymous No.13807902]

>>13804929
Where do you think you are?

[Anonymous No.13807987]

>>13804815
I would suggest the guy with the Millennium Eye thing that made the cards. Kaiba's too obsessed with superiority at the expense of true power (and also stupid). Also maybe Joey.

The ubermensch is (at least to some degree, certainly in terms of inspiration) referring to a particular kind of person that appears every so often who can inspire those around him, two points of focus are Jesus of Nazareth (who- if the Gospels are to be believed- walked up to a bunch of "blue collar" fishermen, told them to follow him, and they just did) and Napoleon (escaped from that first island and within days got an army behind him and lead another set of attacks). From what I remember Joey is very much the social glue that holds the friends together and inspires them to keep going, and while he doesn't seem to immediately be talented at the cards is able to work until he becomes good.

[Anonymous No.13808190]

>>13807902
A literature board, not a pseud facilitationry. There is little value in anime and the like when it comes to serious art and thought.

[Anonymous No.13808352]

>>13804850
I don't think Zarathustra was actually an Ubermensch. In the book I think he's just a prophet that preaches about it.

[Anonymous No.13808393]

>>13804874
baste
>>13805655
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFeqYRuRwtY
The anime may not hold up the manga, but damn was it so kino bros.

[Anonymous No.13809180]

>>13808190
Still on a website originally made for anime fans. The additions of other boards were meant for said anime fans to talk about other overlapping interests between themselves. None of them are overstaying their welcomeーthey're still at home. If you don't like the fact that this site foremost houses such people, then maybe you should go somewhere else that shares your sentiments.

[Anonymous No.13809195]

>>13804822
He rejects godhood/instrumentality specifically because agreeing to it would mean the rejection of the concept of individual.

[Anonymous No.13809302]

>>13804796
Akagi is the best depiction of the genius overman so far. The writing is so fucking genius I am surprised it didn't drop from some far away world... when I first discovered it at least it seemed like that.

Every second of the show (and manga) is genius. First, Akagi is obsessed with "meaningless death" that is the nature of gambling, but when decoding death as loss and meaningless as misdirected, you realize what he really craves for is the "misdirected exertion of energy", or, raw "power". He is essentially idolizing power in it's most common form: unpredictable change, or, the love of emergence.

Both this love of emergence and power is just really a love of the nature and fate of things, amor fati.

Akagi also is extremely virulent and independent, a psychological genius who has mastered empathy, holds a completely active- and unchangeable self-constructed morality, generous and giving because just by living he gives back, seeks the highest and most difficult challenge possible, views himself seperate from the masses who he looks down upon in contempt, has flawless analytic skills, is poetic with everything he says, becomes a leader in every situation without even desiring to be one, is influencing everything around him both directly and indirectly in different ways, realizes the reactive nature of weakness, realizes the symptoms of degeneration, exists independent of the mores of civilization, is not ruled by money or fame, and is misunderstood by everyone except by people similar to him (Washizu).

He holds intrinsic to himself Nietzsche's ideas on power, will, action and reaction, degeneration, morality, virulence, the pathos of distance, order of rank, amor fati, affirmation, etc.

All quotes on gambling and strategy are profound and make the art of war look like a mistake and an embarrassment.

[Anonymous No.13809317]

>>13804850
Just "going under" doesn't make you an ubermensch lol.

[Anonymous No.13809323]

>>13804822
It's an excellent reaffirmation of his Will to Power.

[Anonymous No.13809325]

>>13805815
If you want the real answer, civilization synthesizes into the ubermensch.

[Anonymous No.13809327]

>>13809317
It's a simulataneous overcoming and undergoing ;^)

[Anonymous No.13809373]

>>13809327
Everyone works and goes under, "going under" just refers to the ebb. The flow, overcoming, comes after which is where people can propel themselves forward. This is just a part of living. To become the overman, you would need to suffer through the hardest "going under", an extremely large ebb, that will match the flow if you manage to survive. Clones will one day be manufactured, after people realize that being happy all the time is pointless and dangerous, to suffer as much as possible only so they can overcome that suffering. Then we will enter an era full of cloned supermen, and out of these men there will be inevitably a leader who is even more cruel, who propels the system forward again, etc. etc.

>>13809302 is a good example because Akagi is always risking his life and going under, but he risks his life so frequently that he doesn't even see it as going under anymore, as extreme risk is overcome and is just turned into an intense day in the life.