[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 232 KB, 907x1360, 71qol6+UjkL.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13760092 No.13760092 [Reply] [Original]

This book is a monster desu. What do you frens think of it?

>> No.13760205

>>13760092
I've been reading a lot of pomo tomes, lately. Not sure I can tackle this beast at the moment, but it's on 'the list'.

>> No.13760339

>>13760092
i have yet to finish it...it's been one of the hardest books for me to read, seriously.
It's great but it's just so laborious, jesus. The first line really describes it perfectly
>what i have to tell you is as big as life.
definitely feels like that, like you are watching the span of an entire lifetime.

>> No.13760347

>>13760339
This both repels and attracts me even more to this monster

>> No.13760349

what's it about anons

I like the cover

>> No.13760410

>>13760349
about a professor that wrote a big work on the third reich, Guilt & Innocence in Hitler's Germany, and the book starts as he sets off to write the introduction but can't, instead start writing about every aspect of his life in an agonizing, sad and ironical memoir mixed with pessimistic and acid remarks and puns about a wide range of topics. It's so deeply filled with minute details of his memories you get extremely intimate with his character, and because of this, I believe, I've felt it to be such a labor to read through it here >>13760339

>>13760347
yeah, it is extremely well read, every single sentence. I strongly believe it was on purpose, the density of it, after all, again it is "as big as life".
Very worth it, although I haven't finished it

>> No.13760419

>>13760410
>it is extremely well read
meant well written.

>> No.13760430

>>13760349
>>13760347
>>13760205
also, this book is heavily graphical.
All editions are made exactly the same way, every word is in the same position, every illustration. This shows the important role these crazy illustrations have in the book.

>> No.13760461

I'm about a quarter through it.
I'll freely admit I don't understand a lot of the typographic stuff that he throws in, and sometimes get lost in his abstract metaphors, but the prose is so good (and Kohler's voice is so eerily real and acrid) that I actually like reading it aloud to get the full weight of the language.

A cursed book, really.

>> No.13760472

>>13760410
>>13760430
Okay, anon. You convinced me. Definitely going to have to attempt and tackle this beast. I don't think I knew about the graphical aspect of the book; makes it even more interesting.

>> No.13760475

>>13760410
>>13760430
>>13760461

sounds very edgy and pretentious

>> No.13760487
File: 6 KB, 199x253, ddd.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13760487

>>13760475
>pretentious
back to /sffg/

>> No.13760506

>>13760092
>author called "Gass"
>novel titled "The Tunnel"
I refuse to believe this is a coincidence. I'm sure Joyce would be very interested in this book.

Also:
>praised by (((Silverblatt)))
So I'm assuming the author glorifies the six gorillions, right?

>> No.13760515

>>13760487
i wasn't trying to be antagonizing, it's just what I think so far

i was sort of hoping you'd rebute my doubts

>> No.13760588

is it ever explored as to why he holds antisemitic views? like is he actually talking about the jewish question and stuff?

>> No.13761030

>>13760092
a desperate sort of person owns these book

>> No.13761041

>>13760506
shut up

>> No.13761266

>>13761030
What does that even mean.

>> No.13761269

>>13760506
silverblatt is based

>> No.13761380

>>13761266
he is trying to feel better about being a lazy and arrogant brainlet by seeking validation from other brainlets instead of giving the book a honest try

>> No.13761664

>>13760506
I appreciate you

>> No.13761741

There’s an unfortunate trend in literature which, perhaps, goes back to Joyce, of making novels into these dense, difficult, intricate puzzles that have to be laboriously studied in order to “get” them. It’s awful, and this book is a product of that. Simplicity, clarity, and directness is far more admirable, not necessarily in the sense of Hemingway, who almost takes it to the point of stupidity, but there are plenty of models one could take for such writing. These pomo (I’m not against post modernism as such) novels that require study and labor to understand do not provide sufficient value to merit such an expenditure of effort. You’re essentially toiling on poor or mediocre soil that will reap a very scant crop. There is nothing to justify expending all that effort on these monstrosities. Maybe Joyce, but the American imitations should be left alone. Joyce tried to put in some real value into what he produced, but the American mentality is unfortunately too masturbatory, and writing these sort of novels is just an excuse to jerk off their ego.

>> No.13761751

>>13761380
Sums up 99.9% of /lit/ and people Unironically not reading the meme trilogy

>Posts Infinite Jest anD asks what am I in for, instead of reading it

>> No.13761756

>>13761741
Americans, I might add, do not only approach the act of writing a novel as a form of masturbation, but also that of reading. That probably explains why these kinda of novels manage to get such a substantial audience. It’s a masturbatory exercise on multiple levels.

>> No.13761807

>>13760205
Why do you think this is particularly pomo?

>>13760339
>hard
How tf is this hard?

>>13760410
>ironical

>>13760430
>graphical
Also, no it isn't... only the very beginning.

>>13760461
Gass said the illustrations are supposed to make you go 'what the fuck'.

>>13760472
It's not a beast, it's smooth as swamp slime & jfc there are like 6 graphic inserts in the 800 pages, most in the first 30 pages...

>>13760506
>holocaust lies
No, Gass is presenting a photo negative of acceptability with such a straight face that if you check the reviews, he pissed of some Js by not denouncing Hitler. Also, the narrator participates in Kristallnacht & his son is named Adolf

>>13760588
Is this a joke? Hermeneutics of antisemitism? If God is laughter, you're the joke

>>13761269
Why

>>13761741
The Tunnel is an astoundingly smooth read, stupid. Also, your writing is garbage. Eloquence isn't so hard to learn—look into it.

>> No.13762096

>>13760506
shut up you dumb bitch

>> No.13762106

>>13761741
The Tunnel was none of those things for me. I just read it straight through and enjoyed it.

>> No.13762400

>>13762096
smart!

>> No.13762478

It's miserable proto-incel trash from a nihilistic author who was deep in the closet about his own racist views

>> No.13762954

>>13761807
>How tf is this hard?
can you read?
hard FOR ME, as I said in the post.
I had little trouble reading finnegans wake or pynchon but this particular book was hard. Not to understand it, but to get through. It felt exhausting even though the writing is great

>> No.13762982

>>13762478
Racist views? Gass was the most philosemitic writer ever.

I appreciate boomer pomo lit. I think it was generally positive stylistically. Unfortunately all of the writers were brainwashed by jewish TV culture like Pynchon or amazingly transgressive like Gass. They thus failed to pass down a meaningful cultural message.

>> No.13763278

>>13762954
this isn't an esl book, vato

>> No.13763762
File: 42 KB, 356x302, 9E34D27C-E69E-4CA1-B476-5863B77E7BB4.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13763762

>>13762982
>philosemitic
I guarantee you cannot point to anything to back this up.

While we're exposing you: Gass is not a boomer by any shot. Even Pynchon is pre-boomer. Look it up before forming these gooey-feelie bullshit opinions. And while you're actually learning about the world, it may help to look into Pynchon's politics & religion.

Lazy thinking is incredibly cringe.

>> No.13763807

>>13760092
The book opens up after the first 100-150 pages or so. A bunch of false starts to mirror his failure of wriitng that introduction for his Guilt and Innoncence book. Gets really intimate, well written. Unique, too, read his Omensetter's Luck right after this and it didn't feel right.

>> No.13763860

>>13763807
Omensetter is a better book

>> No.13764200

>>13763278
fuck off monolingual mongrel

>> No.13764256

>>13761807
nice spacing

>> No.13764409

>>13760515
>rebute
if you don't even know the difference between refute and rebuke, you don't belong here

>> No.13764550

>>13761741
yeah this

simplicity is the ultimate form of sophistication. it takes a lot more effort to condense into as concise a form as possible.

>> No.13764585

>>13764550
That's why I like the book of five rings

>> No.13764603

>>13764200
Haha you all always respond the same embarassing way. Embarassing. Knowing Spanish/Portugese =\= knowing Greek/Latin. I love the predictable Spanglish brain!!

>> No.13764609

>>13764550
This is too long for you? Oof

>> No.13764688

>>13764609
Jack off while reading a phonebook

>> No.13764826

>>13764688
=^)

>> No.13765135

>>13760515
>>>>rebute

>> No.13765150

>>13760092
>praised by a guy named silverblatt
lmao no Im good

>> No.13765162

>>13760092
written by a career college professor, which guarantees it's tedious trash

>> No.13765169

>>13761741
both ulysses and finnegans wake are plain as day, anon. no puzzle if you actually read em

>> No.13765212

>>13761741
holy based

>> No.13765255

>>13761741
Ew imagine the manlet who typed this out and hit send

Top cringe post this year

>> No.13765326

this book taught me that people on /pol/ are the way they are because they have a small dick

>> No.13765363

>>13765326
You're Jewish, aren't you?

>> No.13765723

>>13765150
Same

>> No.13766580

>>13765150
>>13765723
you guys should really check silverblatt talking with authors he's really knowledgeable and an acute reader he's got interviews with gass on youtube in fact and barth and gaddis not sure about that last one

>> No.13767158

>>13766580
Thanks anon, I'm really excited about these.

>> No.13767580

>>13765363
They have a certain... well known weakness...

>> No.13767601

>>13760475
sounds like you're a fat fucking retard

>> No.13767626

>>13761756
I'd rather you jack me off until I cum in your mouth honestly

>> No.13767642

>>13762478
I disregard anyone who unironically uses "incel" or to a lesser extent, "racist."

>> No.13768053
File: 129 KB, 386x433, when the gass braaaps.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13768053

>>13766580

>> No.13768057
File: 66 KB, 334x500, when gaddis won't stop chain smoking.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13768057

>>13768053
>>13766580

for your shitposting pleasure

>> No.13768064
File: 201 KB, 470x567, when john barth bends over.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13768064

>>13768057
>>13768053
>>13766580

>> No.13768111
File: 151 KB, 427x640, when alexander theroux laughs at your joke.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13768111

>> No.13768146

>>13768057
ok i'll save them and maybe use them sparingly cuz i respect the effort and appreciate the gesture

>> No.13768318

>>13768146
huh?

>> No.13768606

>>13760515
>rebute

glorious neologism anon

>> No.13768648

>>13768064
>>13768111
I never expected to see Silverblatt memes

>> No.13768672

>>13760092
>"Some may seize on it as a postmodern masterpiece, but it is a bloated monster of a book. [...] The bloat is a consequence of sheer adipose verbosity and an unremitting condition of moral and intellectual flatulence. [...] The abjection of (Gass') hero seems less lived than written. It is an act of ventriloquism"

>> No.13769008

I've posted this more or less every time I've seen The Tunnel talked about on here. But I just read this recently and absolutely loved it. One of the best works of literature I've ever read. So hateful and honest. Another anon some thread months ago talked about how Gass captures the bigotry that is inherent in Americans (in particular men) and it's a completely coherent thesis in the novel. He even has a "chapter" about how he became a bigot.

My favorite section though, without a doubt, is Do Rivers. Absolutely beautiful writing, and heart breaking. I have Gass' little work on literature, but I'm almost afraid to read anything else. After The Tunnel I immediately read the little work on the color Blue, and enjoyed it. But The Tunnel stands alone. The only other book that I enjoyed this much was probably Moby Dick... or maybe Proust when I first started.

While I'm here another recommendation from this year: Havoc by Kristensen. If you're reading The Tunnel and enjoying the hatred, perhaps you'd enjoy the kind of cynical nihilism/defeat of Kristensen.

>> No.13769099

>>13760092
It's great. One of the best I've ever read. But I like prose over plot though (I think).

>> No.13769135

Read Omenetter's Luck and Middle C

Good prose, but lacked impactful stories. Very cynical and jaded. Revels in self-pity and the disgusting.

Sorry to say, but it reads like Gass himself looks, like a fat angry eunuch.

>> No.13769199

>>13763860
Sure, but coming from The Tunnel? I expected something avantgarde in terms of format. Not just a good novel.

>> No.13769622

>>13767642
Yes, it's probably because those terms are accurate descriptions of your personality and you have no rebuttal

>> No.13769630

>>13769199
Omensetter was very avant garde... The Tunnel less so... You think weird text formatting = experimental? Huh?

>> No.13769667

>>13769630
Huh?

>> No.13770652

>>13769630
I specifically wrote it was avant garde in terms of format. How are you unable to read that? It's only in literary fiction you see this sort of playing around.

Omen is as avant as any other mo/pomo stuff.

>> No.13771212

>>13761741
only true post here

>> No.13771267

>>13761741
milan kundera has some great quote that no goes to the effect of 'no novel should be so long that you forget the start by the time you reach the end'

>> No.13771421

>>13764603
io non sono espagnolo ed io anche non sono italiano faggot :)

>> No.13771430

>>13771267
isn't that a bit reductive, assuming that every novel is an exercise in narrative? what about novels that are formally experimental? i don't buy that shit at all, some of my favourite experiences reading were from transcendent, non-linear works

>> No.13771652

>>13770652
Literally what

>> No.13772078

>>13769008
I'm Danish and haven't read Havoc (Hærværk). Feel like I should get to it, bit of a tome, innit, though?

>> No.13772084

>>13771652
Literally your inaptitude

>> No.13772097

>>13761741
>There’s an unfortunate trend in literature which, perhaps, goes back to Joyce, of making novels into these dense, difficult, intricate puzzles that have to be laboriously studied in order to “get” them. It’s awful, and this book is a product of that. Simplicity, clarity, and directness is far more admirable, not necessarily in the sense of Hemingway,
The hell, this is NOT a pasta?
Good post.

>> No.13772377

I find it surprising that /lit/ talks about the tunnel without tristram shandy... it's designed around it...

>> No.13773697

>>13761741
Anyone care that there’s no such dichotomy as “getting” and “not getting” a novel like this? You can read The Tunnel and appreciate it on several levels without the historical/literary/philosophical background knowledge to pick up on all the allusions. Gass was a prose stylist first and foremost, so half the fun comes from the sentences themselves, which anyone can appreciate. I don’t think Gass was the best writer of these encyclopedic postmodern tomes (Pynchon and Gaddis both have him beat), but I’m tired of people dismissing them as pretentious drivel just because they demand more of the reader than most novels.

>> No.13774225

>>13773697
Gass fan here. I've read 4 books of Pynchon. The Crying of Lot 49 > Inherent Vice > Bleeding Edge > Gravity's Rainbow imo. What Pynchon books have you read and how do you rank them? I ask because the only "big" one I've read is Gravity's Rainbow and I thought it was okay. I personally think Gass is a better writer. Gaddis from what I've read is probably better than both of them.

>> No.13774487

>>13772078
It's fairly hefty, but it is so damn good I read it in a week.

>> No.13774509

>>13760487
At least they read books over there

>> No.13776116

bump