/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.13753113]

Am I just stupid, or is a large portion of this rather hard to comprehend?

I'm finding myself rereading some parts three plus times and still not understanding what Augustine meant.

[Anonymous No.13753148]

It's even worse in his city of god. You needed big brain.

[Anonymous No.13753162]

It's not an easy read

[Anonymous No.13753163]

>>13753113

People will tell you the book is a biography. These people are wrong. Cast aside all your received opinions about this book and it will read smoother.

[Anonymous No.13753223]

>>13753113
He is widely read and discussed to this day for a reason, anon.

[Anonymous No.13753247]

>when you get to the part where he talks about his philosophy of time

[Anonymous No.13753272]

>>13753247
Cute piccy, is that you? uwu

[Anonymous No.13753277]

>>13753163
I'm about half way though, and it definitely is a biography. It just has neoplatonism/Christian metaphysics/Manicheism/Augustines own philosophical evolution and general philosophy mixed in. It is a book about his life, and his conversion was the pivotal moment. He came to it through philosophy so these ideas cannot be removed from the story of his life.

The hardest part for me is working out which of these is he is talking about in a certain section. When he talks about the idea that God cannot be in all things because then he could be more in a large thing than in a small thing is actually a denunciation of Manicheism rather than his own opinions, and this is what really messes with me. I didn't realise this until reading the section over like seven times.

I also didn't have even the briefest understanding of neoplatonism before beginning this, so I'm totally blown away by all these ideas coming full force at you all at once.

[Anonymous No.13753278]

>>13753247

The man had a lot of neat things to say about time. It's true.

[Anonymous No.13753305]

>>13753278
"Time is a creature" is one of the most important things you can learn from a basic study of theology. It refutes a lot of the really basic, entry-level critiques atheists level at Christianity.

[Anonymous No.13753837]

>>13753277
That sounds a lot like Parmenides takedown of the forms in the platonic dialogue as well

[Anonymous No.13753880]

>>13753278
wut.

[Anonymous No.13753946]

>>13753880
It becomes easier if you read the whole section.

[Anonymous No.13754133]

>>13753247
>>13753278
«Quid est ergo tempus? Si nemo ex me quaerat, scio; si quaerenti explicare uelim, nescio»

[Anonymous No.13755238]

I really recommend reading a good Biography on him in tandem with Confessions.

[Anonymous No.13756026]

Figure that this is as good a place as any to ask.
About to finally do a full reading of the Bible in preparation for reading some Aquinas and Augustine. What translation should I use? Any supplementary materials?

[Anonymous No.13756031]

>>13755238
thought that was an ayy lmao for a second

[Anonymous No.13756037]

>>13753113

religion is manifestly and irreducibly nonsense. your rational brain is therefore struggling with a blend of reason and nonsense which is meant to prop up the greater nonsense.

[Anonymous No.13756045]

>>13756037
there are things that defy rationality in the world, but i agree about christianity being completely fuckin bonkers

[Anonymous No.13756069]

>>13756045
>>13756037
>its mentally ill
>i'm a philosopher
you will be burned to death

[Anonymous No.13756085]

>>13756069

Yea verily, the burning-to-death will defeat the content of the ideas. You are right.

[Anonymous No.13756097]

>>13753113
When you get to around book 9 or 10 it gets real good bro

[Anonymous No.13756663]

>>13756026
Most popular versions will get the point across. Your bigger concern is readability. If you like well-written but dated English, then KJV. If you want something a little more accessible but still faithful, then try NRSV. Both are available for free online if you want to try reading some sections in each before you buy a Bible. Try reading excerpts from multiple genres, like a Psalm, some of Genesis, and an NT epistle, to get a feel for the prose/poetry of each translation.

Also, something like Oxford's History of the Biblical World or Cambridge's History of the Bible is helpful for providing some background, but both are long. If you're wanting to go to Augustine, there are tons of early Christian writings on ccel.org. There's prolegomena for Augustine's work, and you can also read the church fathers leading up to and during the time of Augustine, including Ambrose, who had a huge effect on his life and conversion.

[Anonymous No.13756668]

>>13753113
That Oxford World's Classics from the topic pic has a ton of footnotes that are super helpful for understanding. It made me want to go back and re-read parts of the Aeneid.

[Anonymous No.13756715]

>>13753247
>>13753278(not you)
>>13753880
You guys are retards, I haven't read any Theology yet (only started the Greeks this year) and it's pretty basic - no less amazing - what he is saying. I actually remember thinking similar things on time when I was in my mid teens while questioning the nature of God.

[Anonymous No.13757075]

>>13756715
Teen spotted. You sure are smart and everyone sure is stupid

[Anonymous No.13757078]

>>13753278
literally just the brainlet version
>there was no time before the Big Bang

but with the added woowoo of "soul"

[Anonymous No.13757085]

>>13753162
It also was meant to be read aloud.

[Anonymous No.13757093]

>>13753277
>>13755238
These are the correct answers. It is absolutely brilliant, but he doesn't signpost what hes responding to and when. Reading a little bit about Manichaeism, and some Plotinus later on, will blow the lid off the whole thing. Especially in his "conversion" to neoplatonism when he realizes his "inner sight," there is a passage in Augustine's "On the Free Choice of the Will" where he details more closely exactly what this means and how he came to understand it from Plotinus. Aside from this, there is very strict classic rhetoric used throughout. He doesn't call attention to it, but the book is structured flawlessly according to that tradition. Confessions opens up best with a good companion piece to point out all the things that Augustine slipped in there quietly.

[Anonymous No.13757162]

>>13757078
When these old books talk of 'souls', they mean what modern people call 'consciousness'.

[Anonymous No.13757170]

>>13753113

I found it really moving and I was enjoying it so much that a lot of it went over my head because I just kept reading.

[Anonymous No.13757229]

It's really tedious.
2/3s of it is nothing but "woe is me' "muh god" "muh salvation' "you, you, you, you"
>I'm Very Humble
I'm prostrating before you O' Lawd!

[Anonymous No.13757238]

>>13757075
Yep, I sure am(that is to say nothing short of a genius), and you all sure are(that is to say functionally retarded).

Debate me faggot. Prove your worth.

[Anonymous No.13757262]

>>13757238
Okay not him, but let me try, here goes nothing: Poopoo and Peepee
Do you still think we are stupid after that, huh?

[Anonymous No.13757278]

>>13753278
the concept of change fucking implies time.

[Anonymous No.13757297]

>>13757238
But I am way smarter than you. I believe this so therefor it is true

[Anonymous No.13757420]

>>13756026
The Geneva bible

[Anonymous No.13757466]

>>13753277
I don't get it. He's God, he can be everything and in small things as evenly as big things.

[Anonymous No.13757490]

>>13753148
I am 600 pages into City of God. Should I keep going, or is it going to be the same shit over and over again? This is legit one of the most dryest things I have ever read in my life. Even more so than "The Histories".

[Anonymous No.13757497]

Why would you read books from a nigger

[Anonymous No.13757589]

>>13757490
Herodotus' or Tacitus' Histories? I loved both.

[Anonymous No.13757594]

>>13757278
Actually it's the other way around.

[Anonymous No.13757620]

>>13757589
Herodotus'! You actually did enjoy it? Guess I just didn't see the appeal lmao. To me, it was just a bunch of rambling about the geography, and occasionally taking a break to tell a semi-interesting/funny story of the politics/battles going on. That part about the dude who ripped off his face was pretty funny tho, ngl

[Anonymous No.13757769]

>>13757620
I loved that it was so bizarre and imaginative. It was also interesting because it was the first book of its kind ever written, this of course does not automatically make something good, but to me it definitely added.

The geography stuff also didn't bother me, Herodotus' idea of where the Nile came from was super interesting I thought. It obviously wasn't correct, but the fact that people believed him (historians argue if people really DID believe him) had that alien quality since it is so detached from our understanding of the world. These crazy descriptions and stories that make you wonder just how much of them were true made me love the book.

[Anonymous No.13757781]

>>13757769
Fair enough! Can see where you are coming from in that perspective then!

[Anonymous No.13757838]

>>13753113
Somebody tell me the first impressions you get when reading this.

[Anonymous No.13757887]

>>13753113
Pray that the Holy Spirit guides you, I assume you are reading this in a state of grace?