/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.13722421]

So I just finished reading this and wow, I just have to say the gods are dicks.

[Anonymous No.13722424]

>>13722421
such cunts

[Anonymous No.13722427]

>>13722421
Just ordered this. Coming tomorrow.

[Anonymous No.13722451]

How do non-academics make a study of this.

[Anonymous No.13722466]

>the scene where one of the characters wounds a literal god
how did they get away with this?

[Anonymous No.13722539]

>>13722421
Why? Wouldn't you make the puppets perform if you had a giant puppet theatre at your disposal?

[Anonymous No.13722560]

>>13722539
That right there is what I'm talking about. They gave no regards to the lives of the humans who worshipped them, celebrated them, honored them, only when it suited them, but when anything threatens them, they are the first to attempt to destroy and bring it to ruin. Fuck those hypocritical niggers.

[Anonymous No.13722582]

>>13722421
Shoulda called it the "Sillyad" because it's reee-dickulus

[Anonymous No.13722623]

>>13722560
Well, yeah, they manipulate them into praising them in various ways that often cause conflict between the gods. If you look at Greek myths the gods were flat out gonna destroy humanity entirely but decided not to because they needed people to worship them.

[Anonymous No.13722697]

>>13722421
I like the part where Diomedes goes SSJ

[Anonymous No.13722757]

>>13722466
Athena gave Diomedes the power to rape Ares

[Anonymous No.13722789]

Anyone read the Caroline Alexander translation? I heard it was praised for staying close to Homer and keeping the same line numbers.

[Anonymous No.13722796]

why would u read this lol

[Anonymous No.13722876]

>>13722697
He still ran away like a bitch from Golden Hector.

[Anonymous No.13722884]

>>13722697
I always think that that day was the most wonderful, wacky and cooler day of his life and no one would belive it if he told about it.

[Anonymous No.13722904]

>>13722796
Because I read the Odyssey. And I watched Troy. I wanted to see how much they changed the story.
Achilles was a crybaby, Agamemnon was a coward, and nobody important died, except Hector.... and I suppose Patroclus and Sarpedon. And, man alive, were the gods real pieces of shit.

[Anonymous No.13722925]

>>13722421
>fagels rock

[Anonymous No.13723931]

>>13722904
>implying the life of Hector, who was so afraid of death he ran from his fate, was more valuable than anyone else's.

[Anonymous No.13723937]

>>13722421
>FAGles

[Anonymous No.13723947]

Lattimore trans best trans

[Anonymous No.13723987]

>>13722421
i dont believe that you read this, you seem too retarded to have read it

[Anonymous No.13724018]

>>13723931
He was LITERALLY the protector of Troy for 10 years. If he had died at any point before then, the city would have already fallen.

[Anonymous No.13724034]

>>13724018
The gods would've intervened, and Troy was not just Hector, they had many.

[Anonymous No.13724103]

>>13722560
Appart from the part in the Odyssey where Athena protects Odysseus out of some semblance of love/respect—that is, the entire book.

[Anonymous No.13724311]

>>13722421
>So I just finished reading this and wow, I just have to say the gods are dicks.

[Anonymous No.13724325]

>>13722421
I have not even tried to read this as I feel it would be a chore.
Did anyone enjoy reading this? and Im not asking someone who had to read it for an academic reason.

[Anonymous No.13724335]

>>13724325
are you a woman?

[Anonymous No.13724379]

>>13724325
Yes, it's boring in many ways, but interesting enough to power through.

[Anonymous No.13724381]

>>13724335
no, I just have a demanding job, a young son and about 20 books still on my list. I don't have a lot of time to read.

[Anonymous No.13724622]

>>13724381
There's no better use of your scarce reading time than reading the classics, and The Iliad just might be the classic of classics. Might feel demanding but it's one of the most rewarding reads you can make.

[Anonymous No.13724704]

>>13724381
Read it to your son. That's what my dad did.

[Anonymous No.13725821]

>>13724704
great advice here.

[Anonymous No.13726153]

>>13724325
The battle scenes are nice, but the best word to describe this book is tedious. The ongoing repetition of phrases, in-depth genealogy of character descriptions, and the "lol so close..." plot hooks lead to a boring, drawn-out read. If you read to children, which would be best, practice how to pronounce the character names/locales and perhaps skim over the battle summaries.

[Anonymous No.13726215]

>>13724034
What are you talking about? Troy WAS Hector, because without him, the city is destroyed. Have you not read the books?

[Anonymous No.13726344]

>>13722451
the only difference between an "academic" and an autodidact is a paycheck

[Anonymous No.13726351]

>>13724381
i have never met someone who says this kind of shit and doesnt spend their down time decompressing in front of office episodes on netflix.

[Anonymous No.13727214]

>>13726215
Manslaughtering Lord Hector is one of the most glorious humans who has ever walked Gaia.

[Anonymous No.13727254]

Sarpedon's death rlly hit me hard. Especially with Zeus predicting and accepting his death. Even though Zeus was such a prick, it was still a tender moment. Even the gods make tragic choices. And Sarpedon died a heroic death.
The end of book 6, with Hector bidding a tearful farewell to his wife and the stark contrast with Paris brimming with hubris was pure kino as well.

[Anonymous No.13727256]

Sarpedon's death rlly hit me hard. Especially with Zeus predicting and accepting his death. Even though Zeus was such a prick, it was still a tender moment. Even the gods make tragic choices. And Sarpedon died a heroic death.
The end of book 6, with Hector bidding a tearful farewell to his wife and the stark contrast with Paris brimming with hubris was pure kino as well.

[Anonymous No.13727297]

>>13727256
>>13727254
What did he mean by this?

[Anonymous No.13727310]

>>13727297
Sarpedon's death rlly hit me hard. Especially with Zeus predicting and accepting his death. Even though Zeus was such a prick, it was still a tender moment. Even the gods make tragic choices. And Sarpedon died a heroic death.
Sarpedon's death rlly hit me hard. Especially with Zeus predicting and accepting his death. Even though Zeus was such a prick, it was still a tender moment. Even the gods make tragic choices. And Sarpedon died a heroic death.
The end of book 6, with Hector bidding a tearful farewell to his wife and the stark contrast with Paris brimming with hubris was pure kino as well.

[Anonymous No.13727312]

>>13727297
>Sarpedon's death rlly hit me hard. Especially with Zeus predicting and accepting his death. Even though Zeus was such a prick, it was still a tender moment. Even the gods make tragic choices. And Sarpedon died a heroic death.
>The end of book 6, with Hector bidding a tearful farewell to his wife and the stark contrast with Paris brimming with hubris was pure kino as well.
Sarpedon's death rlly hit me hard. Especially with Zeus predicting and accepting his death. Even though Zeus was such a prick, it was still a tender moment. Even the gods make tragic choices. And Sarpedon died a heroic death.
The end of book 6, with Hector bidding a tearful farewell to his wife and the stark contrast with Paris brimming with hubris was pure kino as well.

[Anonymous No.13727328]

Sarpedon's death was particularly hard-hitting, especially when considering that Zeus predicted and even accepted his demise. Though Zeus could be an asshole, yet was it a most heartfelt moment. The Gods, though divine, are not unsusceptible to making regretful decisions, and Sarpedon's was the death of a warrior. Hector's bitter farewell to his wife in the finale of the sixth book, when considered alongside the unflinching pride of Paris, was for me another remarkable moment.

[Anonymous No.13727334]

>>13727328
Sarpedon's death rlly hit me hard

[Anonymous No.13727347]

>>13722560
well... imagine the shit people have done to their pets as an inconsequential joke, just to see their pets reaction.

That's basically how the gods are represented towards humans

[Anonymous No.13727630]

>all these shit readings of The Iliad
Even the gods couldn't oppose Necessity during the Trojan War, they're the ones who suffer most the death of their champions. You need to reread it before spewing your "le gods are ebil" epic fedora tipper tirades.

[Anonymous No.13727644]

>>13727630
>You need to reread it before spewing your "le gods are ebil" epic fedora tipper tirades.
In his defense, most people apply an Abrahamic framework to ALL divine entities, despite that pretty clearly not being the case. The notion that any of the gods could be "evil" is silly not because they aren't, but because "evil" doesn't exist within the context of European religions. Ares is Ares, Zeus is Zeus, they are what they are, and sometimes that's malicious, mean, and downright wicked. Other times, it's greatly beneficial, loving, and caring. The entire point of the religion is to be their friend, with the implication that friends don't hurt each other (as much).

Removing the Olympians from the Semitic master-slave dichotomy, which the Greeks (and indeed all pre-Christian Europeans) did not hold, brings about a view where of course the gods are dicks sometimes, just like your boss is a dick sometimes.

[Anonymous No.13727679]

Those gods are some real jerks!

[Anonymous No.13727708]

I recommend listening to Elizabeth Vandiver's lectures while you read this. Available through The Great Courses from the Teaching Company. Not cheap bought new. But you can often get them on ebay.

The lectures will add a dimension to the book.

[Anonymous No.13727840]

>>13727708
Just pirate them

[Anonymous No.13728084]

>>13727328
For me, fight for Patroclus' corpse was really inspiring.

[Anonymous No.13728440]

>>13722876
>Ajax beat Hector
>Diomedes beat Ajax
>therefore Hector would beat Diomedes
Hector was just lucky that Paris injured him from afar before Diomedes could react.

[Anonymous No.13728478]

>>13722789
>reading translations made by women

[Anonymous No.13728484]

>>13722421

[Anonymous No.13728496]

>>13728478
Caroline one seems alright.

[Anonymous No.13728512]

>>13728496
Is that so? I was half-serious, because most translations I read that were made by women seemed either really loaded or just plain bad ( like the Hero of our Time translation that came up a few days ago ). I'm not saying that there are no exceptions, only that it's a rule of thumb that generally holds true.

Works that are markedly masculine, like the Iliad, are especially susceptible to being pozzed.

[Anonymous No.13728534]

>>13722904
>achilles didn’t die
confirmed havent read the aeneid

[Anonymous No.13728740]

>>13728534
Explicitly laying out Achilles' death is completely missing the point. The Roman character does not hold the values presented in the Iliad. If He did, He would not have made His empire.

[Anonymous No.13728789]

>>13728478
Isn't that the bit where he is in the town that used to be super hospitable, and was famous for it, but then got fucked up by Poseidon, and since then they hate travelers?

Hell, traveling and being a "foreigner" is a huge part of the Odyssey. In fact, the tale elevates the idea of coming home, not just physically, but also in-fact (as compared to Meneleus (If I remember correctly) who got killed by his wife and her new fuckboy).

Odysseus is either welcomed or shunned depending on where he goes, but we must remember that there is, and I hate that I can't remember exactly where, an example of a guest who "overstays" his welcome. In fact, it is considered rude of a guest to stay too long, or be kept too long. The latter is exemplified by how he is kept captive at the start, by a too generous host. Inviting someone in and robbing them of their agency, so that they now are dependent on you and your people is considered an insult to you both, and very rude of you to him, and him to you, by the Greeks. It's a major "sin" to speak, in Greek culture of the time. The "witty" criticism is far off the mark.

I know this is probably preaching to the choir but I fell in love with literature through the Iliad and shit like this irks me, and I felt I had to vent.

[Anonymous No.13729504]

>>13727630
The hell are you on, asshole? The gods interfered with both Diomedes' and Achilles' rampage because they were going to tear down the walls of Troy "against Zeus' will" and saved several heroes during the course that they personally championed.
They were literally opposing the necessity of the Trojan War for their own inflated egos, you dumbass speed reader.

[Anonymous No.13729530]

>>13727347
It still doesn't make it right.

[Anonymous No.13729538]

>>13728440
Diomedes was just lucky that bitch Athena was riding his cock so hard or else Hector would have slaughtered him where he stood.

[Anonymous No.13729545]

>>13729538
As opposed to Hector having his ass saved by Apollo and being buffed by Zeus?

[Anonymous No.13729562]

>>13728534
>why would u read this lol
>"this" meaning the Illiad
>the post you replied to was in answer to that very question
I'm sorry you lack the capacity for reading comprehension on a board specifically designated for the discussion of literature.

[Anonymous No.13729573]

>>13729545
Even without the gods' "help", Hector still would have struck down Diomedes. It's stated over and over there was no one to oppose Hector except Achilles.

[Anonymous No.13729605]

>>13729573
Ajax wrecked Hector. And Ajax got wrecked by Diomedes in the friendly duel during the games.

Greeks were too OP. Even Patroclus himself could've wasted Hector if it hadn't been for divine intervention.

[Anonymous No.13729709]

>>13729504
They TRIED to interfere with Necessity but they barely delayed it. Don't @ me ever again.

[Anonymous No.13731013]

Read it again

[Anonymous No.13731121]

>>13731013

[Anonymous No.13731142]

>>13729709
Oh, right, except where it explicitly states the gods took the senses away from Hector and the Trojans after being pushed back from the ships to stay out in the fields against Polydamas' advise of going back to Troy behind the gates.

[Anonymous No.13731389]

>>13726344

[Anonymous No.13731828]

>>13727254
>>13727256
Yeah. Poor pitiful Andromache.

[Anonymous No.13731834]

>>13728789
>as compared to Meneleus (If I remember correctly) who got killed by his wife and her new fuckboy).
You clown, you have the wrong son of Atreus in mind. How dare you forget 1/7th of Aeschylus' extant works. You should be banned.

[Anonymous No.13731836]

>>13728789
Based and aretepilled.

[Anonymous No.13731845]

>>13731834
Who was in the wrong after the events at Aulis and after the end of the war? Agamemnon or Clytemnestra? I think both, but really the whole thing was unavoidable.

[Anonymous No.13731850]

>>13731845
I wrote a paper about how justified Clytemnestra was in her actions and my mom and I still argue about it to this day.

[Anonymous No.13731862]

>>13731850
What was Agamemnon supposed to do? Stand there forever, waiting until the army dies of hunger? He bore the weight of that sin because it had to be done, and especially since he was the one responsible for it.

Let me guess, your mom thinks she was justified? I'm sure she's a wonderful person, but women will always side with other women.

[Anonymous No.13731889]

>>13731862
Anon, all that you have said seems spoken after my own mind. My mother isn't completely one hundred percent behind the murder, especially considering poor Cassandra gets it, but she thinks it's a lot more ambiguous than you and I do. She also thinks that Andromache had a worse lot than Cassandra, but that's really a different matter.

[Anonymous No.13732167]

>two soldiers duel in a heated battle
>one of them dies and the other immediately starts stripping him of his armour while everybody around them continues to fight
was this common in ancient greece?

[Anonymous No.13732516]

>>13731142
>in this occasion they delayed Necessity
>in that other occasion they accelerated Necessity
yes, and?

[Anonymous No.13732523]

>>13722466
And the madman does it twice

[Anonymous No.13732536]

>>13722904
Achilles was based af. My girlfriend told me that he was a cry baby and that id hate him because all he does is sit in his tent. His scenes when he refused to fight were utterly based. After he agreed to give his armour to petroclus he turned into just a generic character. Was dissapointing. His dialogue about honor and war was the best part of the book.

[Anonymous No.13732538]

Was anybody else surprised on first reading that the illiad doesnt include the death of achilles, the trojan horse and the sacking of troy?

[Anonymous No.13733736]

>>13732538
no, already knew its contents beforehand

[Anonymous No.13733825]

>>13722421
>duel between Ajax and Hector
>Ajax about to fuck Hector up
>they stop fighting for no reason
Why? Is there a reason other than Hector having to survive for future events?

Also,
>Diomedes fights the Gods
My dick was rock hard the entire time. It was so anime but exciting nonetheless.

[Anonymous No.13733842]

>>13733825
Cause Zeus wants the Trojan war to end by Achilles, that's why Hector was spared

[Anonymous No.13733851]

>>13733842
Is it explained later in the book why it had to be Achilles? Or is Zeus just autistic?

[Anonymous No.13733855]

>>13731389
I can relate.

[Anonymous No.13733873]

>>13733851
Necessity

[Anonymous No.13733914]

>>13733851
It was fate, even the gods cannot go against that.

[Anonymous No.13734615]

>>13728512
I downloaded and checked a small part, it seems similar enough to the translations by men.

[Anonymous No.13734967]

>>13732167
Three reasons.
One, it was proof of your valorous deed.
Two, you would need new armaments since there would be no nearby blacksmith to make you new armor and weapons.
Three, you keep what you kill.

[Anonymous No.13734976]

>>13733851
Zeus was a fag who hated to be proved wrong.

[Anonymous No.13734996]

>>13732536
Achilles dressing down and adamantly refusing the greatest captains of the Achaean in his tent all while drinking and eating was as hilarious as he was correct.

[Anonymous No.13736085]

Why didn't Diomedes get any sweet epics or plays? He's extremely prominent in the early books of the Iliad.

[Anonymous No.13736929]

>>13736085
He's too based. You can infer that he returned home after the war and continued being based for the rest of his long life.

[Anonymous No.13736932]

>>13734976
ur wrong

[Raul No.13736943]

i am sorry you are based not me

[Anonymous No.13737194]

>>13727644
Ares is despised in Greek writing, that's why you have prayers for victory and tokens of gratitude to Athena, Zeus and Castor & Pollux instead. Unlike Mars, who was the Romans' best friend, Ares is just an embodiment of a negative concept.

[Anonymous No.13738205]

>>13722421
I cry every time.