/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.13672204]

So, what exactly is wrong with reason, science, humanism and progress?

[Anonymous No.13672208]

It makes christians feel dumb

[Anonymous No.13672209]

>>13672204
Nothing. But when you also ruin the world those great ideas mean less

[Anonymous No.13672213]

>>13672209
Could you explain futher?

[Anonymous No.13672214]

>fuck yeah science
>oh but not eugenics that's too much science no no bad bad

[Anonymous No.13672227]

>>13672213
The French do it better than I ever could.

[Anonymous No.13672233]

>>13672204
>humanism
>progress
These terms are almost as laden with ruling class derision as "folks"

[Anonymous No.13672239]

>>13672204
The fact that he is practising pedophilia

[Anonymous No.13672244]

>>13672227
Try faggot. Otherwise why bother fucking posting.

[Anonymous No.13672255]

>>13672244
It's a great read, have you read it?

[Anonymous No.13672257]

>>13672204
progress towards what?

[Anonymous No.13672272]

>>13672257
Science, reason and humanism.

[Anonymous No.13672273]

>>13672257
Greater returns on the rulers' investments

[Anonymous No.13672281]

>>13672257
The end.

[Anonymous No.13672283]

>>13672257
Actually makes you think.

[Anonymous No.13672287]

>>13672257
less whites

[Anonymous No.13672305]

>>13672204
ASS

[Anonymous No.13672310]

>>13672257
A supreme goal, doesn't matter what it is

[Anonymous No.13672312]

>>13672204
Literally nothing.

Technocapital is Sentient.

[Anonymous No.13672316]

>his shtick is to tell people to not poke any veils as to find out about the underworld he knows exists and most likely is a part of

[Anonymous No.13672317]

>>13672204
*enlightens your path*

[Anonymous No.13672325]

They’re guided by demons usually

[Anonymous No.13672374]

>>13672204

There's nothing wrong with reason, science humanism and progress, itself; however, when you act as if you've invented certain goods and qualities, and promote them as if they belong only to your (political) group, then it is wrong. It is similar when religious/atheist groups say:

> "The other side is irrational, but my group, and by this I mean especially myself, man, we are the voice of wisdom and reason"

Read John Gray's article for more. https://www.newstatesman.com/culture/books/2018/02/unenlightened-thinking-steven-pinker-s-embarrassing-new-book-feeble-sermon

[Anonymous No.13672376]

>>13672257
According to Pinker: improved quality of life (which is vague still), more wealth (and less poverty), less crime, less disease and the deaths it causes, greater happiness , greater equality, a better environment.

[Anonymous No.13672388]

>>13672376
This.

We live in the best times ever.

Only incels are upset because they are too lazy to get a gf to help them climb the ladder.

[Anonymous No.13672406]

>>13672214
Eugenics is a massive meme at this point. With our current understanding of genes we can't just select for strong healthy ubermensch without inadvertently also selecting for a bunch of negative traits as well. Maybe 100 years from now we'd be on firmer ground

[Anonymous No.13672412]

>>13672204
>Reason
Everyone likes Reason.

>Science
The scientific method is useful. Nobody has a problem with science

>Humanism
Calling yourself a Humanist doesn't make you one, and Pinker isn't one. He is a Jewish neoliberal, the single most dangerous and destructive kind of person alive. The entire predator international system of finance, the monstrosity that is modern Capitalism, the degeneration of culture, the normalization of mental illness and sexual degeneracy. These are all the Neoliberal's fault.

Pinker is the sort of person who exemplifies everything wrong with modern America. He paints a pretty picture of a classical liberal world, but in reality the structure he is a part of and the structure he controls is a cosmopolitan tyranny of corporations and finance beating down the common man and enforcing, top-down, a moral system that is good for their profits and their security.

>Progress
Towards what? Right now America is "Progressing" towards becoming a third world country BECAUSE of the neoliberal agenda. Pinker is why you don't have free healthcare and never will. Pinker is why we are at war in Yemen, AND why the average American can't find Yemen on a map.

It's cute to pretend that saying nice things in a gentle tone is the same as actually being a force for good, but it's a lie. Modern secular progressivism is fucking evil. It is Jewish neo-colonialism--forcing the entire world to become a shopping mall with a gay pride parade marching through it.

Gone is community, religion and harmony. The entire world must be Sodom and Gomorrah for the Jew to feel safe and comfortable.

[Anonymous No.13672424]

>>13672412
>rdt fencevote: the post
Yikes.

[Anonymous No.13672467]

>>13672376
> less disease and the deaths it causes

longer and more painful lifes, depending on medications like insulin, or surviving chemotherapy. Just to end in a retirement house or a being eaten by a cat in your own house.

>happiness
buzzword.
>equality
worse than ever. There are more slaves now than ever.
>environment
is fucked up. Enjoy the electromagnetic waves fucking up your brain.

>>13672388
>We live in the best times ever.

prove it.

[Anomynuos No.13672473]

what is science without philosophy and literature? it's just looking at charts and trying to find answers or correlations using a linear pattern.
philosophy gives the person the ability to be aware of thought itself, it teaches you how different thoughts are built which allows you to be better at theorizing, analyzing and answering when combined with data. philosophy is the text in a study and combined with statistics it becomes science.
also "reason" and "logic" are indefinable meaningless words thats only correct use is when comparing older societies with newer ones

[Anonymous No.13672479]

>>13672473
>also "reason" and "logic" are indefinable meaningless words thats only correct use is when comparing older societies with newer ones
Go on

[Anonymous No.13672502]

>>13672204
"For the myth of a past golden age, present day humanity substitutes the myth of a
future plastic age. "
"Optimism is never faith in 'Progress', but hope for a miracle. "
"God is a nuisance for Modern man"
"“To be useful to society” is the ambition, or excuse, of a prostitute. "
"Many love humanity only in order to forget God with a clear conscience."

- Davila-Gilleland

[Anonymous No.13672515]

>>13672424
Are you kidding? He's not on a fence, he hates the entire paradigm, and rightfully so

[Anonymous No.13672518]

Enlightenment ideology is dogmatic propaganda that claims to have a monopoly on universal principles like reason and the scientific method. Throw in some vague unscientific notions like humanism and progress and act like they actually are scientific and you have the cult of reason.

[Anonymous No.13672524]

>>13672204
>Reason
No proof for logic exists
>Humanism
What does this even portend to mean?
>Progress
Look up overshoot population index. Billions will die because of fossil fuel, pollution, and climate change. It will be a holocaust of sorts, worse than any war ever penned by Mars or fiction.

[Anonymous No.13672533]

>>13672204
It goes against human nature.

[Anonymous No.13672555]

>>13672473
The scientists are only able to see the world in terms of causality, orderless meaningless causes and effects, they represent all things dead and lifeless, they see everything from history to evolution as a causal connexion of facts, the materialist point of view sterilizes humanity

[Anonymous No.13672557]

>>13672406
Terrible unthinking post. Cave men did deliberate eugenics and created entire species. We select and evolve every time we reproduce. Eugenics is applying technique and science to the process in humans, like we already do, and have always done, with animal and crop husbandry.

[Anonymous No.13672567]

Believing in progress is just the anodyne belief a mainstream intellectual is obligated to take these days. Read a true intellectual outside with novel ideas like Lasch who will tell you what progress is a catch-22 since, contrary to Adam Smith's notion, material progress is not associated with moral progress. No one but a deluded liberal can think that our society has progressed morally compared to, say, prewar 20th century Europe. Most people just confuses the expansion of license to do whatever degenerate act you want as an expansion of freedom.

So it's clear that technological progress does not lead to moral progress. Further, technological progress just leads to more consumerism, as it is now evident to any deep thinkers on the left or right that we're a society of consumers not citizens. Given that our planet is one of finite resources, the constant expansion of consumerism (wherein past luxuries rapidly transform into necessities) will doom the whole world.

TL;DR progress is a pseud concept

[Anonymous No.13672568]

>>13672557
How quickly do you think that selection happened? Are you willing to have a bunch of generations of genetically failed humans before we figure it out?

[Anonymous No.13672580]

>>13672567
Which book by Lasch would you suggest anon?

[Anonymous No.13672583]

>>13672580
the true and only heaven: progress and its critics

[Anonymous No.13672618]

>>13672568
Stop posting and think for a few minutes. Matching positive traits in reproductive partners isn't a complicated or risky endeavour. Most states had eugenics programs, many well into the 70s. It's indefensible to be pro-science and against a eugenics program that is merely the application of science-informed technique to human pair matching and reproduction.

Animal husbandry is not a mystery, what reason it there to not apply the same scientific knowledge and practice to the most important animal?

[Anonymous No.13672621]

>>13672204
>progress
Like sjw kind?

[Anonymous No.13672639]

>>13672618
What exactly are positive traits in humans? Intelligence? Insofar as intelligence is genetic, what if it comes with a heightened chance of severe anxiety?
Resistance to some diseases? What if the gene that resist those diseases has side effects? Those CRISPR babies in China have already been said to be flawed in some unintended ways. If you want to slowly breed healthy and intelligent people over centuries it's one thing (enforcing that is a joke on its own) but doing anything more quickly is beyond reckless

[Anonymous No.13672650]

>>13672639
The ironic thing is that science cannot give the answer to which positive trait should be bred for, because those are value judgments

[Anonymous No.13672656]

>>13672412
>sexual degeneracy.

Way to expose yourself as a clown

[Anonymous No.13672658]

>>13672204
reason, science, humanism, and progress

[Anonymous No.13672660]

>>13672376
but the result is that there will be more humans and inevitably terrible things will happen again. there's no way we can choose the right path for humanity, no way we can know what the insane consequences of new technology will be. we will continue hurdling towards our eventual end with ups and downs just as we have since only single celled organisms existed on Earth, and there's nothing good or bad about it. trying to make things as pleasant as possible while we're still here is sensible, but "progress" being an actual goal and not something that simply happens is ridiculous. science is funded by governments for the sole reason of producing new weapons and new products so their country can maintain power through force and economics.

[Anonymous No.13672671]

>>13672412
>Nobody has a problem with science
Most people have a problem when science says something that they don't like.

[Anonymous No.13672681]

>>13672374

Based Gray

[Anonymous No.13672892]

>>13672376
Lo! I show you the Last Man.

"What is love? What is creation? What is longing? What is a star?" -- so asks the Last Man, and blinks.

The earth has become small, and on it hops the Last Man, who makes everything small. His species is ineradicable as the flea; the Last Man lives longest.

"We have discovered happiness" -- say the Last Men, and they blink.

They have left the regions where it is hard to live; for they need warmth. One still loves one's neighbor and rubs against him; for one needs warmth.

Turning ill and being distrustful, they consider sinful: they walk warily. He is a fool who still stumbles over stones or men!

A little poison now and then: that makes for pleasant dreams. And much poison at the end for a pleasant death.

One still works, for work is a pastime. But one is careful lest the pastime should hurt one.

One no longer becomes poor or rich; both are too burdensome. Who still wants to rule? Who still wants to obey? Both are too burdensome.

No shepherd, and one herd! Everyone wants the same; everyone is the same: he who feels differently goes voluntarily into the madhouse.

"Formerly all the world was insane," -- say the subtlest of them, and they blink.

They are clever and know all that has happened: so there is no end to their derision. People still quarrel, but are soon reconciled -- otherwise it upsets their stomachs.

They have their little pleasures for the day, and their little pleasures for the night, but they have a regard for health.

"We have discovered happiness," -- say the Last Men, and they blink.

[Anonymous No.13672998]

>>13672639
You're not thinking. Every act of reproduction is a recombination of DNA. Every recombination of DNA could be improved and optimised with science. It already is with animal husbandry. Scientific eugenics can be applied to every reproductive act, it doesn't need multiple generations, as a contemporary example Iceland DNA test prospective couples to limit inbreeding.

Matching positive traits amongst partners is trivial and human society already does this non-scientifically, we produced modern man from apes through pre-scientific eugenics. There is no reason not to apply mans full faculties, including science, to the reproductive process.

Dysgenic scaremongering is misplaced because dysgenics will occur more often without the application of science, not applying science is quite literally switching part of human understanding off to the most important human process for no good reason, resulting in more dysgenic outcomes from non-scientific pair matching.

If it's okay for OKCupid to use algorithms and technology to match couples, why is it wrong to use overt eugenic science and techniques to match couples? Why the arbitrary redline over when science and technology can and can not be involved in pair matching and reproduction to improve human progress? This is one area amongst many where the "I fucking love science" crowd are frauds and cowards.

[Anonymous No.13673017]

>>13672233
t.subhuman hick
Sorry, boy. Civilisation is leaving you behind and there's nothing you can do about it.

[Anonymous No.13673027]

>>13672892
>>One no longer becomes poor or rich; both are too burdensome. Who still wants to rule? Who still wants to obey? Both are too burdensome.
>heh i'll just create my own values
>NOT ON MY WATCH!

[Anonymous No.13673036]

>>13672892
Yikes. Have sex, incel.

[Anonymous No.13673047]

>>13672204
it's all the logocentric human security system! inhibiting schizo-libidinal flows of lemurian pulsional spirits that swing to maximum intensity of poetic swiddening of restricted, reactive signification that attempt to tie down such sovereign singularities with their metaphysical bad conscience of truth, progress, reason, and science - all bunk! "I" am a werewolf, a savage, a ghost of the outside that sows artistico-magickal warfare upon the walls of the sad architecture that is man!

[Anonymous No.13673052]

>>13672892
>One no longer becomes poor or rich
t. "healthcare is socializm!!1"

[Anonymous No.13673068]

>>13672204
It’s gay and Jewish

[Anonymous No.13673082]

>>13672557
It's far easier to apply eugenics to animals due to the fact they mature and breed faster than humans, Even with a minimum average of 13 years between generations a human eugenics project would still span decades or a couple of hundred years.

[Anonymous No.13673095]

>>13672374
>if one wanted to single out a thinker who represented the opposite of humanism (indeed of pretty much every argument in this book) one couldn’t do better than the German philologist Friedrich Nietzsche. Nietzsche helped to inspire the romantic militarism that led to the First World War and the fascism that led to the Second. The connections between Nietzsche’s ideas and the megadeath movements of the 20th century are obvious enough; a glorification of violence and power, an eagerness to raze the institutions of liberal democracy, a contempt for most of humanity, and a stone-hearted indifference to human life.
Damn I knew Neetche was based, but I didn't realize he is this BASED

[Anonymous No.13673108]

>>13673082
Brainlet you could benefit from eugenics in one(1) generation

[Anonymous No.13673111]

>>13673082
No it wouldn't. A eugenics project only needs to span nine months. Every act of reproduction can be improved through the application of scientific eugenics. You don't need multiple generations, it's literally the mere application of science to pair matching and the recombination of DNA that follows.

[Anonymous No.13673249]

>>13672998
You didn't answer me. What are the positive traits you want to breed for and how do you sift out the side effects. And is there some sort of global breeding commission that decides who gets to breed. Not that you ever thought that far ahead. Just to answer that "we already breed selectively", Jews in medieval Europe tended to have more kids if they were smarter and more successful in financial affairs which selected for higher IQ. They then started being susceptible to a whole range of mental issues. You never answered how you would fix that while retaining the positives

[Anonymous No.13673339]

>>13672204
Pinker's science is vulgar science. What Pinker and the other "intellectual dark web" do is they take "facts", or "axioms" they made up, and them jumble them around until they fit their political views. They don't analyze things in a systematic or dialectical way. Its crude vulgar logic. For example, they'll do something like this:
1) Society is made up of individuals and their interactions.
2) These individuals make their own choices.
3) Therefore, there's nothing wrong with society, there's no greater thread or forces at work, everything that goes wrong for is your fault, if the state left everyone alone everything would be perfect, and people at the top deserve to be there because they made better choices.

These are kind of logical yarns that they weave, which rapidly fall apart when you think about them for even a second.

[Anonymous No.13673366]

>>13673249
Not that guy but,
>eugenics is a set of beliefs and practices that aim to improve the genetic quality of a human population by excluding (through a variety of morally criticized means) certain genetic groups judged to be inferior, and promoting other genetic groups judged to be superior.
You seem to be under impression that eugenics means breeding some sort of aryan 150iq 200cm übermenschen. That is of course not a feaseable project to begin with. Eugenics could literally mean aborting all downies and others with more severe genetic defects with use of various prenatal diagnostics. It could also mean given money to healthy couples who finished uni to have more kids. There are a lot of options but you have to start with baby steps since eugenics has kinda of bad rep

[Anonymous No.13673382]

>>13672244
https://illwilleditions.noblogs.org/files/2018/02/Invisible-Committee-NOW-READ.pdf
I couldn't post this from my phone before, but if you haven't read this, I think it's worth your time. It is by no means a long read and could be completed in a day or two.

[Anonymous No.13673393]

>>13672257
hell

[Anonymous No.13673463]

>>13673382
Looks interesting, thank you

[Anonymous No.13673723]

>>13672244
The triumphalism of Pinker masks the emptiness of the projects he celebrates. The "donation" of HIV medication to Africa, the successful distribution of mosquito netting and other aid resources to the same peoples, even cultural exchange programs between African and non-African places seem so glittering and good as to deserve a pedestal of their own. But is not the saturation of their commodity markets more destructive than any plague? What of the grand visions of war planned for the continent? The Pinkers of the world would sleep soundly and confidently that saturation served a higher good, that the destituted African farmers were simply not clever enough to make it in the inherently ethical marketplace and their loss is a fly swatted away from the fruit basket we're all told is a wonderful achievement. But the fruits born of Pinker's system are so costly, so wasteful, so profit-obsessed and future-scuttling that it's unfathomable that to take pride in them as Pinker and his peers profess is not only unsavory and unserious but quite odious.
Contextualizing Pinker into the unsettling impermanences breaking Modernity's promises, drenched in the poisons and garbage we shower upon ourselves as we clamor to survive, fully conditioned by the onerous Darwinism disguised as "market dynamics," nearly completely broken by Pinker's exalted systems, his deafness and blindness appear as sweet gifts from God so that we may see for ourselves in Pinker's foolishness our own errors. Heaven is making an example of these "intellectuals," and it is up to us to dress them, tie them to spits and put them to the fires fueling a better world. What our instincts sense when we see a fool as Pinker is an almost salivary impulse to devour, to sink our teeth into such silly creatures, whether an alabaster-curled pig idiot or his obscurantist colleagues, not because they're delicious but because like an apex varmint, one cannot keep lambs or chickens when they're near and so powerful. If you find this distasteful and wish not avoid such ugliness, do not kid yourself: Pinker and his lot will eat you alive and jest over your remains.
God wishes for us to be alive and to be alive and to treat our lives with any seriousness is to oppose Pinker, his evil friends, his vacant peers, the unsavory shoulders he stands upon, the monstrous contraptions built upon them. As canine companionship may be one's only source of friendship in these times, truth should be your God, because finding it is about as elusive as a physical manifestation of the divine and God speaks to you through truth and your own understanding. Pinker seeks to sever this relationship between you and God.
Most of wall, you should limit your time on this inuring whirligig, because it can easily erode and distract you, leading you off the trails required of you by your ancestors and any future you hope to deliver. Godspeed, Anons.

[Anonymous No.13673742]

>>13672244
The triumphalism of Pinker masks the emptiness of the projects he celebrates. The "donation" of HIV medication to Africa, the successful distribution of mosquito netting and other aid resources to the same peoples, even cultural exchange programs between African and non-African places seem so glittering and good as to deserve a pedestal of their own. But is not the saturation of their commodity markets more destructive than any plague? What of the grand visions of war planned for the continent? The Pinkers of the world would sleep soundly and confidently that saturation served a higher good, that the destituted African farmers were simply not clever enough to make it in the inherently ethical marketplace and their loss is a fly swatted away from the fruit basket we're all told is a wonderful achievement. But the fruits born of Pinker's system are so costly, so wasteful, so profit-obsessed and future-scuttling that it's unfathomable to take pride in them as Pinker and his peers profess we logically ought.
Contextualizing Pinker into the unsettling impermanences breaking Modernity's promises, drenched in the poisons and garbage we shower upon ourselves as we clamor to survive, fully conditioned by the onerous Darwinism disguised as "market dynamics," nearly completely broken by Pinker's exalted systems, his deafness and blindness appear as sweet gifts from God so that we may see for ourselves in Pinker's foolishness our own errors. Heaven is making an example of these "intellectuals," and it is up to us to dress them, tie them to spits and put them to the fires fueling a better world. What our instincts sense when we see a fool as Pinker is an almost salivary impulse to devour, to sink our teeth into such silly creatures, whether an sludge-curled pig idiot or his obscurantist colleagues, not because they're delicious but because like an apex varmint, one cannot keep lambs or chickens when they're near and so powerful. If you find this distasteful and wish not avoid such ugliness, do not kid yourself: Pinker and his lot will eat you alive and jest over your remains.
God wishes for us to be alive and to be alive and to treat our lives with any seriousness is to oppose Pinker, his evil friends, his vacant peers, the unsavory shoulders he stands upon, the monstrous contraptions built upon them. As canine companionship may be one's only source of friendship in these times, truth should be your God, because finding it is about as elusive as a physical manifestation of the divine and God speaks to you through truth and your own understanding. Pinker seeks to sever this relationship between you and God.
Most of wall, you should limit your time on this inuring whirligig, because it can easily erode and distract you, leading you off the trails required of you by your ancestors and any future you hope to deliver. Godspeed, Anons.

[Anonymous No.13673743]

>>13672227
thanks for posting this

[Anonymous No.13673748]

>>13673723
incredibly based

[Anonymous No.13673779]

>>13672257
tang ala evangelion. these people are bnwo/acc

[Anonymous No.13673805]

>>13673748
Sorry, anon, i had to correct an ungainly sentence.
>>13673743
The book is a literary armory, with cutting whip-smart takedowns of Obama's "hope" right alongside Facebook, medicine, all human endeavor conducted in the West basically. Technically about France, the ideas burn so bright that I wish to desperately fire a flare from this side of the atlantic, to let them know we haven't all succumbed, we're not all dead, we're not all idiots, we're not forlorn savages, and even if we are woefully inadequate, we walk upright and will see what constitutes the mettle of our ruling charlatans if for not other reason than the need to do so, because there is nothing else for us. We all feel the wall to our backs. Now is when we become Men.
>Our very ego-self appears as more and more complex, less and less coherent puzzle, so that to make it hold together, in addition to pills and therapy sessions, algorithms are necessary now. It's pure irony that the world "wall" is used to describe the solid streams of images information and commentary by which Facebook attempts to give a shape to the self.
God bless the French. I don't think there's anything so barbed in the English language as these translations.

[Anonymous No.13673936]

>[PHONE RINGS]
>Hello, this is the /lit/ board.
>Anon, I'm from the committee.
>Yes
>I'm sorry to bother you this early, but the order will be meeting today to make their decision regarding Steven Pinker
>What kind of decision?
>Well, we're thinking about "letting him go".
>I see
>We'd like to know if this would be in line with your recommendation

So, what's your recommendation, anon?

[Anonymous No.13673956]

>>13672204
All of those things are gay

[Anonymous No.13673970]

>>13673936
Any volume discounts?