Have you learnt Latin or Ancient Greek yet?

File: 229 KB, 624x434, 1503017887420.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Have you learnt Latin or Ancient Greek yet? Anonymous Mon Aug 12 11:01:23 2019 No.13627137 [Reply] [Original]

What's stopping you from reading the greatest works of mankind?
If you did, how did you learn and what books have you enjoyed so far?

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 11:07:54 2019 No.13627165 Ancient Greek: yes Latin: No Why should one learn the inferior version of the former. Literally the literary and philosophical value of French, German and Russian overwhelms Latin.

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 11:12:58 2019 No.13627191 >>13627165 >comparing the language of Western World for more than 1500 years which produced French, Spanish and Italian to a language like Russian spoken only by farmers whose nobility spoke in French

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 11:35:04 2019 No.13627283 >>13627165 How did you learn Ancient greek, ἀδελφό?

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 11:40:42 2019 No.13627303 >>13627137 The best way to learn latin is by far the Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata series. As for ancient greek, some people swear by Athenaze but it's not a great method for teaching yourself. I personally really like Hermaion, but it's in french.

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 11:46:28 2019 No.13627326 >>13627303 I like LLPSI over all, but dislike how he changes the order of cases. NGDAAV is GOAT.

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 11:55:55 2019 No.13627362 File: 210 KB, 820x642, 1554902016428.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13627137 >not learning Old Norse it's like you choose to be a pleb

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 12:04:35 2019 No.13627403 >>13627362 Who cares about the most inferior European race and culture? First Germanic text was found in 300-400 AD, Ancient Greek had already more than a millenium of writing literature.

Anonymous Mon Aug 12 12:16:04 2019 No.13627459

I finally finished my degree in classics. We used Wheelocks to learn Latin and Athenaze to learn Greek. Personally I prefer Wheelocks for learning Latin, but I agree that Athenaze wouldn't be the best for self-study. Many many times my teachers would say, "well I don't know why this info is presented to you in this way, so let me tell you how it should be presented." Hope this helps.

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 12:24:49 2019 No.13627498 >>13627459 Can you read now any Ancient book?

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 12:28:36 2019 No.13627509 >>13627403 >t. Never read ON

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 12:31:24 2019 No.13627517 >>13627137 How do I learn these?

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 12:41:02 2019 No.13627559 >>13627509 >The earliest inscriptions in Old Norse are runic, from the 8th century. Comparing a barbaric language to Greek or Latin, pls kiddo

Anonymous Mon Aug 12 12:43:00 2019 No.13627575

>>13627498
My Latin is better than my Greek. Reading Greek I would need a commentary aimed toward beginners or intermediates, some ones I really like are Geoffrey Steadman's. With Latin I could translate pretty much anything with only a dictionary, but I would also like a commentary to understand the obscure mythological or geographical references they make.

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 13:35:09 2019 No.13627822 bump

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 14:09:22 2019 No.13627977 >>13627575 What books have you read in Latin and Ancient Greek?

Anonymous Mon Aug 12 14:14:57 2019 No.13628004

>>13627137
Latin. I learned using LLPSI along with an Oxford grammar/reference and Essential Latin Vocabulary. That was about 7 - 8 months ago and I can read prose quite comfortably now. I know the basics of Greek but nothing beyond that. Latin Tutorial on Youtube is another great resource for anyone wanting to learn it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 15:04:15 2019 No.13628190 >>13628004 did you use ANki or any SRS? how many hours did you spend every day? did you do any audio or speaking practice in Latin? have you found audiobooks? what books have you read so far? can you compose phrases in Latin?

Anonymous Mon Aug 12 15:08:50 2019 No.13628214

>>13627977
I've read Catullus's book of poetry, Horace's first book of Odes, Cicero's third Catilinian oration, (Not all of) Lucan's De Bello Civili and Ovid's Metamorphosis, Apuleius's Golden Ass, Petronius's Satyricon.

For Greek, so far just excerpts from Xenophon's Anabasis, Euripides Medea, and a few selections from Homer and Sophocles. I've only been studying AG for about a year now.

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 15:09:59 2019 No.13628218 File: 23 KB, 611x672, 1565620167551.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13627165 >Latin and Greek are even etymologically related

Anonymous Mon Aug 12 15:10:29 2019 No.13628221

Just go to archive.org. Search for latin and greek textbooks but order them starting from the oldest. Learn it like the people before you. Ollendorff method is not bad if you don't want to be overwhelmed by grammar.
Comenius also wrote a primer Ianua linguarium. Find it there.

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 15:15:13 2019 No.13628240 >>13628214 you only took Latin in your classics' degree? collegii classes Latine Tu unicam es in tulit?

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 15:33:12 2019 No.13628321 >>13627137 Cum Cum Cum Pseud Pseud Pseud Lookin' good to me

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 16:01:06 2019 No.13628462 >>13628218 They both come from the IndoEuropean race that invaded Europe from the Pontic–Caspian steppe

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 17:00:04 2019 No.13628753 Nullus populi imperium aeternum est

Anonymous Mon Aug 12 17:57:01 2019 No.13629005

I've already got 2 other languages I've been learning for quite a while (Japanese and German).
German is quite similar to English, which means that it's not very difficult for me to real literature or philosophy in (even if I do often come across unknown words in books).
I don't know if I'm using the wrong side of my brain for it or what, but I'm much worse at understanding metaphors, figurative language, and even long sentences in Japanese, meaning that anything that's above light novel-level difficulty feels extremely difficult for me to read.
Taking that into account, I'm not sure how easy it could be for me to learn to read Euripides or Homer in Greek, given my current experiences with language learning, nor do I even see the point of learning another language when I've not come anywhere close to even being fluent or comfortable reading in two other languages.

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 18:08:25 2019 No.13629070 >>13629005 How did you learn Japanese and German? RTK? Anki?

Anonymous Mon Aug 12 18:15:27 2019 No.13629108

>>13629070
German:
A1 course at school + A2 course with DW website, then German for Reading textbook, after which I started reading with Hesse and Mann.
Japanese:
Core2k + imabi, then vocab mining and sentence mining out of light novels, visual novels, and 2chan posts. I used the Kodansha Kanji Learner's Course for radical names, and for some kanji mnemonics.
I've not really come close to finishing either one, so I'm probably not the best person to ask for advice on this.

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 18:39:04 2019 No.13629244 >>13628214 I started it in the last year of my undergraduate studies, I changed my major a few times and had another major so I didn't get the chance to start greek until then.

Anonymous Mon Aug 12 18:45:26 2019 No.13629271

>>13629108
Now that I think about it, it might be possible that the reason why I can't read real literature in Japanese is because I've mostly learnt Japanese from anime and visual novels, which feature very few examples of complex dialogue, descriptions, or figurative language.

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 19:10:02 2019 No.13629394 >>13629271 how long did it take you to be able to read comfortably in German and Japanese?

Anonymous Mon Aug 12 19:17:50 2019 No.13629425

majoring in greek classics
i've read the iliad, plato's apology and phaedo, and some new testament epistles in the greek.
taking latin rn, its ok but not great.

>>13627165
based
>>13627191
>first works of western literature written in greek
>grammatically more complex and nuanced than latin
>>13627283
>not using the vocative
cmon bruh
>>13627303
gross
wheelocks, Hansen and Quinn, game over
>>13627459
>>13628214
whatup fellow classics bro
>learning latin more than greek
lame bro
>>13629005
if you are good at german, attic greek wouldn't be terribly difficult for you

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 19:34:14 2019 No.13629504 >>13629425 why do you prefer Ancient Greek to Latin? You haven't read much in Greek, yet you come to show off... How long did it take you to learn AG? Why do you say knowing German would help?

Anonymous Mon Aug 12 19:39:25 2019 No.13629522
File: 38 KB, 614x614, 1565486175959.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

WHERE CAN I FIND A TEXT COMPARISON BETWEEN ATTIC AND KOINE. A SAMPLE TEXT WRITTEN IN BOTH DIALECTS

i always hear "learn attic first then koine and not koine>attic" because "koine is a simpler version of attic" but nobody ever shows how they compare

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 19:42:55 2019 No.13629538 File: 1.24 MB, 2250x3075, IMG_20190812_204124.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I'm studying right now. It has been a few years since I really read anything and I have to study to apply for a professor spot. Wish me luck, /lit/ frens

Anonymous Mon Aug 12 19:55:02 2019 No.13629599

>>13629394
German - 3 months
Japanese - not yet. I have been able to read dumb light novels like ゼロの使い魔 or はがない without much problem ever since I knew about 2000 words and had 100 hours of reading that kind of stuff under my belt, and I don't have difficulty reading newspaper articles, but if somebody tells me to read a novel written by Mishima or Kawabata, I'd more likely than not end up misunderstanding much of what I'm reading. My peak reading speed in Japanese (60 words per minute whenever I'm reading something easy) is less than 1/12 of the one I've got for stuff written in English. I often have to re-read sentences because I don't quite catch onto their meaning on the first try.
I really don't know Japanese yet, and I'm not sure if I ever will.

Anonymous Mon Aug 12 19:57:36 2019 No.13629617

>>13629538
llevaba tiempo sin ver sustantivos en su forma arcaica, estudias para las oposiciones de profesor de instituto? es un griego muy sencillo lo que pasaste, no creo que tengas problemas, la mayoría de palabras del griego básico aún persisten en el español, sólo has de buscar
mucha suerte,

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 19:58:42 2019 No.13629622 >>13629599 3 months and you're reading Hesse and Thomas Mann? WTF?

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 20:00:13 2019 No.13629628 >>13629617 Sí, para prueba por oposición. Recién hoy arranqué con el repaso. Tengo tres meses de estudio por delante. Gracias por las palabras de aliento.

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 20:10:48 2019 No.13629672 Any rec for ancient Greek vocab training? Just reading is not cutting it. HELP PLS

Anonymous Mon Aug 12 20:15:45 2019 No.13629692

>>13629622
German is really similar to English. Both of those writers are conceptually and semantically easy to read in comparison to Hegel or Goethe.
>>13629617
>la mayoría de palabras del griego básico aún persisten en el español,
Uno podría generarse una concepción errada de la frecuencia de las palabras en un idioma (o de la importancia relativa de cierta información) por el hecho de que aparecen al principio de un libro de texto, lo cual quizá sea equivocado, ya que es, a lo contrario, posible que las palabras o los conceptos más simples o conocidas en general se colocarían al principio de un libro.
Como ejemplo, tengo en mi mente un libro de texto de lógica matemática que utilizaba unas famosas proposiciones de lógica silogística (Socrates is a man. All men are mortals. Therefore, Socrates is a mortal.) para ilustrar la deducción lógica básica, a pesar de que ningún matemático argumentaría sobre algo relacionado con ese tema.
Otro ejemplo también sería un libro de texto de japonés básico que alguna vez me topé que tenía "さくら" y "はらきり" por el hecho de ser palabras que se esperaría que se conocerían por osmosis cultural en el Occidente, aún si en verdad no son tan comunes en la vida cotidiana en Japón.
>>13629672
Vocabulary cards made using words encountered in Herodotus and Plutarch.
You can slap an example sentence in the back too if you want to.

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 20:17:09 2019 No.13629697 >>13629672 make your own flashcards

Anonymous Mon Aug 12 20:21:10 2019 No.13629717

>>13629692
Te vas un poco por los cerros de Úbeda con tu respuesta. La persistencia del vocablo, aunque no sea obvia a primera vista para el ojo no instruido, todavía existe.
Te reto a que cojas cualquier palabra básica del griego e intentes buscar en la RAE palabras que descienden de ella, es divertido ver como la influencia de tan magna lengua aún persiste en la nuestra.
Por ejemplo, buscando cabra en griego puedes llegar hasta egagrópila o egabrense, palabra la cual tiene cierta anécdota que te convido a buscar.
Una afición mía es ésta.
Saludos.

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 20:21:28 2019 No.13629720 >>13629692 >>13629697 Thanks for the advice. I will give it a shot.

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 20:25:59 2019 No.13629736 >>13629720 it's good if you write nouns, verbs, adverbs, conjunctions etc with different colors

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 20:34:02 2019 No.13629772 >>13629736 Will do. Thank you very much.

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 20:52:48 2019 No.13629847 What was the first known language?

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 20:56:52 2019 No.13629871 File: 84 KB, 480x599, 480px-Gerard_van_Honthorst_-_King_David_Playing_the_Harp_-_Google_Art_Project[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >he cant read the psalms in ancient hebrew sad!

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 20:57:24 2019 No.13629875 >>13629847 First written language? Probably Sumerian. First language ever spoken? Nobody knows.

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 20:59:49 2019 No.13629890 >>13628214 >>13629425 what's up my dude

Anonymous Mon Aug 12 21:26:49 2019 No.13630015

>>13629504
>havent read much in greek
ok pal let me know what you've read in a dead language
it took me about 3 years to get to a point that grammatically everything makes sense and isn't too difficult
need a lexicon, of course
german would help because both are inflected languages, with gendered nouns.
knowing any inflected language would help, greek is heavily inflected and cases are really important in it

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 21:29:36 2019 No.13630026 >>13630015 which greek did you learn? attic or koine?

Anonymous Mon Aug 12 21:34:03 2019 No.13630041

>>13630026
attic, then learned nuances in homeric (enclitics, conjugation/declension changes, participle uses, pronouns) before doing koine
koine is a breeze, takes no time and is really easy to read. reading paul or other early church fathers is really easy compared to plato/sophocles

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 21:37:47 2019 No.13630054 The true mark of a brainlet is overrating da greeks. The interesting stuff in latin has nothing to do with da anshents or da claziks. It has to do with a rhenish franciscans meeting sogdians and kipchaks at xanadu. Forever brainlets the lot of you.

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 21:41:45 2019 No.13630072 >>13630041 could you help with >>13629522 writing a short sentence that stress the difference of each dialect. perhaps the beginning of the lord's prayer in attic?

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 21:46:36 2019 No.13630087 >>13630054 If I wanted to read about stuff like that, I'd learn Classical Chinese to read Song-Ming dynasty chronicles about encounters with people from other countries.

Anonymous Mon Aug 12 21:50:29 2019 No.13630101
File: 22 KB, 351x474, NT greek grammar.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>13630072
there's not a clear cut way to show this, as if i were to compose the lords prayer in attic
(the lords prayer koine is pretty good greek)
but unironically theres a good wiki article on it that shows it
imo the most annoying thing is the use of ὧς as "because" instead of introducing a purpose clause, and that infinitives can introduce purpose (i went to the store to buy bread vs. i went to the store so that i might buy bread)
also look at pic related, people have spent their entire lives showing what the differences between attic and koine are

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 21:53:22 2019 No.13630113 >>13630101 thank you. i'll check that book. God bless

Anonymous Mon Aug 12 22:02:29 2019 No.13630141
File: 29 KB, 350x499, 41AKfjMlXnL._SX348_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>13630113
Not that dude, but if you want a really good compendium of Ancient Greek grammar, check this book out instead. It was just published last year so the scholarship style is much different than older Greek grammars such as Kaegi or Smyth. This book also has a couple of sample passages at the end with great commentaries.

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 22:05:10 2019 No.13630153 File: 22 KB, 500x607, 1967482234.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13630141 >not smyth

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 22:05:45 2019 No.13630155 >>13630141 i hop between mastronarde and athenaze and can't spot a difference between those dialects. i want to focus on one then learn the other

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 22:07:48 2019 No.13630159 >>13630155 mastronarde, athenaze and mounce*

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 22:14:22 2019 No.13630181 >>13630015 can you understand Modern Greek (demotic)? And katharevousa? whats the difference between katharevousa and attic greek? what are your plans on your future learning in Greek?

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 22:31:09 2019 No.13630226 >>13630141 Being aware of grammar is indeed important, but don't you think it'd be more practical to know what something means than how it would be classified by a philologist/linguist?

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 22:41:52 2019 No.13630259 File: 91 KB, 532x525, greek.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >ἴθι ἐγώ >ἐμάνθανον τὴν Ἀττιkὴν ἵνα ἄν θαυμαζοἰμην ὕπο τινῶν ἀγενεἰων >οὐkέτι ἔχω γυναῖkα

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 22:44:51 2019 No.13630272 >>13629425 >if you are good at german, attic greek wouldn't be terribly difficult for you this is some grade a retard shit right here

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 23:10:14 2019 No.13630368 >>13630226 Yeah, if you could only buy one book on ancient greek I guess this would be true. It's certainly not textbook that teaches you vocab.

Anonymous Mon Aug 12 23:27:24 2019 No.13630413

I'm an Italian/Spanish/Catalan native speaker and have been thinking about learning Latin to record audiobooks in this language and upload them to Youtube or whatever. There are no audiobooks in this language and the few that exist are recorded by Americans/Englishmen destroying Latin with his effeminate and weak pronunciation. I think Latin is very easy to pronounce but these fuckers destroy it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 23:45:23 2019 No.13630472 >>13630413 It is strange how english speakers can't say normal vowels. They add this muffled sound at the end. It's very gay

Anonymous Mon Aug 12 23:45:48 2019 No.13630473

>>13630413
Here you have several audiobooks with really good pronunciation:
Anabasis (in Ancient Greek)
Consolations, by Boetius (Latin)
Dei Civitate dei and Confessionum, by St. Augustine (The city of God, in Latin)
https://librivox.org/reader/7860?primary_key=7860&search_category=reader&search_page=1&search_form=get_results

>>	Anonymous Mon Aug 12 23:59:14 2019 No.13630505 >>13630473 I also use the tool text to spech, make some books into audiobooks and listen to them, the robotic voice is better than the weak, like you say, voice of the luminaries

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 13 00:36:49 2019 No.13630602 You don't know Latin til you can speak like him https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OyhWKTmJBo

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 13 00:40:50 2019 No.13630615 >>13630602 *can't >in before, latin is a dead language

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 13 00:51:55 2019 No.13630635 >>13630602 Holy mackerel

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 13 08:42:14 2019 No.13631947 >>13630602 sounds beautiful

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 13 09:13:18 2019 No.13632077 File: 77 KB, 1018x452, roman workout.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I'm currently looking for a detailed version of Vegetius in Latin with English commentary, any help?

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 13 11:25:54 2019 No.13632641 >>13630472 Are you referring to the diphthong?

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 13 12:21:58 2019 No.13632910 >>13632641 No, any vowel in any combination, single or with another, you have a broom in the mouth speaking

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 13 12:41:04 2019 No.13632988 I'm Spanish and can understand this perfectly whithout ever studying it. Oral Latin is very easy and intuitive. I guess written Latin must be more intricate. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL1KkcvPwyw

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 13 13:22:18 2019 No.13633145 bump

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 13 14:25:33 2019 No.13633522 File: 1.11 MB, 1920x1080, pandiculacion .jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Learn German, the new Rome

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 13 19:57:41 2019 No.13635256 >>13630259 anyone to translate?

Anonymous Tue Aug 13 20:40:59 2019 No.13635444

>>13627137
Let me do a review for curious anons, protip if you are not going to academia (which you shouldn't) you should not bother learning Greek/Latin. 90% of the stuff is translated to English 99% of it is translated to French/Italian/German. Unless you are into post medieval and obscure stuff like 18th century Phanariot merchant records you will most likely find a modern language translation of the work you want, this is more true for latin than for greek. So do learn a modern language, at least it might be useful to you in other aspects.

But you are really into learning Greek/Latin, below are my suggestions.

--Greek--
>Athenaze
Extremely easy/basic, but it is designed for a classroom setting. It intentionally puts some advance shit at start but won't explain it. The teachers book mention where this kind of stuff is but gives minimal explanation. So it might be a bit painful for self study. I used this in a classroom setting with no complaints, my teacher had specific powerpoints that complimented the text, which was nice.

>Cambridge Reading Greek
Has its own individual study guide, the difficulty is medium, texts move from constructed to original greek in a gradual manner. The grammar however is all over the place, IIRC they teach you optative before subjunctive, 3rd declension before 1st declension etc. Might be okay for newcomers, but I found the grammar learning structure weird. I still recommend this though, make sure to get all the books, study guide and teachers guide alongside text and grammar books.

>Learn to Read Greek
Yale's big beast, it is extremely intensive and doesn't hand hold. The exercise book is massive, grammar is detailed and texts are exclusively original. This is a great book but I wouldn't recommend anyone to start from this. However if you have the money, get it. This is the best series to really drill greek. It's also my favorite series. Very difficult, very intensive but very comprehensive and to the point. You do have to email the publisher for answer keys.

>Other memebooks, Greek an Intensive Course, Introduction to Attic Greek
ignore these, outtdated/replaced stuff.

cont with latin

Anonymous Tue Aug 13 20:49:07 2019 No.13635478

>>13635444
--Latin--

>Lingua Latina per se illustrata
Highly recommended by many but it has different learning style. It teaches you ''naturally". The problem is that it assumes you come from an English background. If English is not your first language and you might be annoyed if not outright struggle with it. You should definitely get this book though, I wish they had something like this for Greek (they say Italian version of Athenaze is like this)

>Wheelock
The classic, get the latest edition. Start from this and compliment it with lingua latina. Though Dowling method discourages this, I do believe Wheelock can be nice addition.

>Dowling Method
-First read and learn basic grammar concepts throughly http://www.wcdrutgers.net/Latin.htm
-Then memorize the basic grammar, there is a webpage where you can practice fill the grammar from memory http://www.jonathanaquino.com/latin/
-Then go to Lingua Latina
I understand Dowlings discouragement for Wheelock but if you are confused or want some classic text book, wheelock can really compliment you. Do use Dowling method but check out Wheelock also, maybe go parallel with both.

>Learn to Read Latin
Yale's beast Latin version, again my favorite, again most difficult/intensive. Get this after you finish the others just to revise stuff and learn grammar a bit more in detail.

Anonymous Tue Aug 13 20:56:13 2019 No.13635496

>>13635444
>>13635478
I think you can finish Cambridge Greek in 3 months of intensive study. Same is true for Lingua and Wheelock. It depends on how much you can spend in a day, with 1-2 hour of study you can finish it in 5-6 months, with 6-7 hours maybe in a month. But everyone has their own pace, some people like me are brainlets when it comes to language so don't be discouraged by others.

I would make the following recommendation
-Study one language first, if possible study latin first
-Avoid old books, many assume you know highschool latin, and many greek books assume you know latin, cambridge reading greeks pre 2000s edition was like that (recent edition is allright though)
-For latin use Dowling method plus Wheelock than buy Yale and finish that. Wheelock and Lingua can be finished in 3 months, but Yale's beast would require another 1-2 months. Believe me the exercise book is massive.
-For Greek start from Cambridge and maybe use Athenaze (but again individual study can be difficult for Athenaze) then finish off with Yale. Sadly there is no book such as lingua latina or a webpage like dowlings wheel for Greek.

If you are a NEET and dedicate 4-6 hours a day, you can read your Plato and Seneca in a year, with the help of a dictionary and a grammar reference book.

Anonymous Tue Aug 13 21:09:02 2019 No.13635532
File: 35 KB, 354x499, avila.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>13635478
>>13635496
>Sadly there is no book such as lingua latina
There is an attempt to create such a book, called "Alexandros to Hellenikon Paidion" by Mario Diaz Avila. It's published in Spain, but easily available everywhere.
I don't think it's quite as good as Lingua Latina, but at the very least, it is great reading practice for beginners. It should probably be used together with a more traditional grammar.

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 13 21:20:01 2019 No.13635588 >>13635496 i'm a NEET, how long would it take to read Aristotle in Ancient Greek if I focus only in it and not study Latin?

Anonymous Tue Aug 13 21:21:17 2019 No.13635592
File: 42 KB, 350x499, eros.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

This book doesn't often get mentioned, but I found it to be tremendously helpful after finishing a first year Greek course. It gets you reading real Plato quickly while reviewing the grammar. I would recommend this as a second Greek book.

Anonymous Tue Aug 13 21:29:03 2019 No.13635633

>>13635588
4-6 months maximum. 2-3 months of completing Cambridge+Athenaze, 3 months of Yale Reading Greek + Maybe some intermediate Greek book

In college, people began to read Greek texts after 2 or 3 semesters. Lets assume a semester is 15 weeks and each class have a 3 hours of lecture and we assume with homework etc you need to spend an additional 3 hours.
So if you study 6 hours a day you would finish 2 semester worth of Greek in a month. Lets make it 2 months since you lack outside help and a brainlet. Lets also add learn Yale's textbook, for additional 2 months. Making it 4 months in total. So yeah 4-6 months.

Mind you reading in ancient language is never equal to knowing a foreign language, I doubt you can learn to speak a foreign language fluently in just 6 months. But you can read your Aristotle in 6.

Mind you however, not everyone learns in 6 months. But still I do know people who apply to grad school with no Greek, knowing that they will take a translation exam in September, go to intensive summer sessions for 2 months and study on their own for a month before september and then pass the language exam at ease.
>>13635532
I'll check it out thanks.

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 13 21:39:49 2019 No.13635696 >>13635588 you can be reading with a dictionary in under a year if you study regularly and intelligently. you shouldn't need to put in any more than 1 hour a day.

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 13 21:44:40 2019 No.13635710 >>13635633 not the same anon, but who long did it take you to achieve it? what were your routine? what books did you read? and what do you do know with that knowledge and how do you think it has changed you?

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 13 21:46:27 2019 No.13635715 >>13635444 >you should not bother learning Greek/Latin. 90% of the stuff is translated to English Is there no body of material from ancient Rome that can only be gained through reading Latin? Are there any other reasons to learn it?

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 13 22:13:02 2019 No.13635827 Is Herodotus the best way to train reading?

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 13 22:15:32 2019 No.13635835 >>13635827 If you know the basics, why not? If you start from zero, it will get really tedious soon having to look up every word and grammar rule.

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 13 22:19:22 2019 No.13635858 >>13635835 I used to be able to read Euripides with some lexicon at hand, but I feel rusty and I need something easier.

Anonymous Tue Aug 13 22:21:07 2019 No.13635865

>>13635710
5 years. I started to learn latin in 2011, greek in 2012, passed my greek exam in 2017. So yeah I achieved what others achieve in 3 months in 5 years. Was told I would never learn, received D, went through 4 different summer schools, different textsbooks etc far more than what I mention above. So speaking from experience. Though I must say I only took language seriously after 2016. I suck at languages and I still struggle with them. But if a brainlet like me can learn it so can you.

Well I became a historian/future Neet so there's that. I still prefer to read in modern languages, I don't like to look at obscure words as I read moreover I also like the footnotes/commentary etc, unless it is poetry I really love poetry (Not Homer though, fuck homer, which I had to translate for a grad seminar)
>>13635715
Nope, the entire classical corpus is translated to modern languages. If you find an obscure latin text that you want to read but not translated to any modern languages, the chances are it is dated to post 1500s or some obscure letter that a bishop send to another bishop. And if you are autistic enough to want to read that you are austic enough to learn latin.

I really think learning latin/greek is a big timesink, even if you learn it in 2-3 months. Go learn a modern language instead, far far far far far far far far far more useful.

>>	Anonymous Tue Aug 13 22:28:00 2019 No.13635896 >>13635865 But people on 4chan tell me that like 90% of the meaning is lost in translation. To what degree is that a meme?

Anonymous Tue Aug 13 22:32:38 2019 No.13635914

>>13635896
It depends on what you are reading. Some authors are easily translatable, some are not. Some genres of writing have a deeply codified form, some do not. If you are really interested in ancient poetry, go ahead. If you are interested in reading Herodotus or Aristotle, do not waste your time, and read articles about the difficult words written by some professional philologist.

Anonymous Tue Aug 13 22:41:08 2019 No.13635949

>>13635865
Why did you keep studying if they told you you would never learn it and you feel like you lack the talent and regard those languages as a timesink?

Did you at any moment reading in Greek or Latin think that all that suffering was worthy?

Do you speak any other language?

Anonymous Wed Aug 14 00:46:37 2019 No.13636349

>>13635896
See >>13635914
It really depends, some translations are horrendous. Some are great, most of them are a okay. Unless you write an academic paper on it you should be fine.
The enjoyment is something else, you can enjoy a work better if you read it in its original language, but translations do not take away as much as you think
I'm sure there are both good and bad Dostoevsky translations but if you pick one randomly more or less you will be fine, and unless you write an academic paper on Russian literature you don't have to learn Russian ''just in case translation might miss a thing or two''.
>>13635949
I don't know, on one hand I like history but on the other I don't like being a historian.
I still think it was worth it, not greek-latin per se but me pursing a phd is something I don't regret.
I think myself more of a teacher than an academic. The possibility of finding a job aside if Harvard and a shitty community college offered me a job, I would take community college one asap.
I like reading academic stuff and I like teaching. I don't like learning language and writing academic papers. I'm a consumer who detests creating go figure.
I also know intermediate German and minimal french and modern greek.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 00:55:13 2019 No.13636367 >>13635896 huge fucking meme. Even metred rhyme gets like 75% of it if it''s done well. It isn't as beautiful, but you do get it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 02:37:37 2019 No.13636619 >>13627137 Busy wth Jap at the moment. Already able to read the japanese classic まじかるちゃ~みんぐ!

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 08:41:57 2019 No.13637509 >>13636367 but you gotta think that if the translation is very good, the original work must be better I cannot imagine how good the illiad must be in Ancient Greek

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 09:37:44 2019 No.13637645 >>13629871 >he doesnt use the septuagint okay mr shekelstein

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 09:56:14 2019 No.13637713 >>13637509 it's okay, I highly believe Illiad is overrated due to muh first EVROPEAN epic.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 09:58:45 2019 No.13637722 >>13630602 >>13632988 it sounds more Italian than I expected.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 10:15:09 2019 No.13637792 >>13635256 I had a holiday in Greece and can guess this much: >be me >something something Attican something >something my girl

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 10:41:09 2019 No.13637901 >>13630259 >be me >learning attic so that I can impress a young boy >I have no gf

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 10:47:18 2019 No.13637924 >>13629692 Have you tried your hands on nietzsche? I would like to know what experiences a non-native would have with him, since even most natives struggle quite a bit when reading him.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 10:54:59 2019 No.13637953 >>13636619 Why write only in kana?

Anonymous Wed Aug 14 11:00:56 2019 No.13637974

>>13637645
>he reads a translation that removes 90% of the linguistic nuance
Reading any of the hebrew bible without seeing the semitic roots or the hebrew puns loses so much depth. Unrelated words in english/greek come from words sharing the same hebrew root, but all that meaning is lost. There's also parts with so much word play and puns they could have been written by lewis carroll. All this is lost in translation

Anonymous Wed Aug 14 11:05:26 2019 No.13637990

>>13629108
>>13629070
>>13629005
>>13628214
>>13628190
>>13628004
>>13627575
>>13627459
>>13627303
>>13627283
general question on learning languages
i lived in a Scandinavian country for two years but didn’t quite learn the language fluently as i didnt need it to get by and i was a psychotic depressive which made it hard to care
currently i have decent conversational understanding, basic spoken proficiency, and basic grammatical understanding. i do however usually get the right “gut” instinct on conjugating things
what would the best way to improve my skills? i watched a tv series with english subtitles but it didnt do much
should i just try reading some easy books and look up all the words i dont know?

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 11:41:39 2019 No.13638157 >>13637990 do you happen to be a (((refugee)))? How did you end up over here?

Anonymous Wed Aug 14 11:43:20 2019 No.13638161

>>13637990
try get an ipod nano or mp3 and blast audiooks 24/7 in that language, watch some media in that language with subtitles in that language, not in English, and try to read native material, copying every word of a phrase you dont understand into Anki. I guarantee you profit in 2/3 months, dont worry too much about grammar, it will come naturally from exposition to the language

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 12:29:22 2019 No.13638354 >>13637990 which Scandinavian language? Svenska, Ahmed?

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 13:11:39 2019 No.13638500 >>13638161 >nano or shuffle what decade you living in? but anyway thanks mate >>13638354 >>13638157 did exchange from the usa to sweden bc half swede and didnt know lang i get the faggot culture and customs, just need to brush up language

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 13:22:19 2019 No.13638559 >>13638500 joo joo, vi har en riktig John här. Eller är du ASAP Rocky? t. Finskjävlar

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 13:41:17 2019 No.13638641 >>13627137 I'm working through wheelocks and llpsi right now. Worried about backsliding when the semester starts up soon. Unfortunately I go to a crappy college that doesn't even offer Greek or Latin.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 13:58:26 2019 No.13638716 >>13638641 Anon... my kid's elementary school has latin classes. Maybe just buy one of those "life experience" degrees?

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 14:13:18 2019 No.13638767 >>13638559 jag är inte neggarboll fyfan är du finlandsvensk eller riktig mongolisk

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 14:15:12 2019 No.13638776 Starting uni in september, studying physics but most excited about Latin courses. Shame that we dont have ancient Greek here, but I'll study modern Greek anyway this autumn :)

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 14:18:16 2019 No.13638785 >>13638767 Jag är en riktig mongol från Östra Finland, Nord-Karelen. Ingen personen här talade svenska, men allsamma vi måste den språk lärare. Min svensk är mycke dåligt, men bättre an många andra finne här

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 14:19:26 2019 No.13638788 >>13638776 how are you going to study modern Greek? I'll study it once I finish with Spanish

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 14:20:53 2019 No.13638795 >>13638641 how long have you been studying? how was been the road so far? any advice?

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 14:22:36 2019 No.13638801 >>13638785 are you really a Mongol? you speak Russian? how's the linguistic situation over there?

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 14:27:38 2019 No.13638807 >>13635444 >no Hansen and Quinn you made a mistake, pal

Anonymous Wed Aug 14 14:28:59 2019 No.13638813

>>13638795
It's been alright. I took Latin years ago so I've been retracing my steps. Set aside at least an hour every day, ideally two for studying. Personally I dont find the grammar paradigms super difficult to master or get a handle of. I sometimes mix them up in my head, but if you spend the time each day that wont happen as often. Do your flashcards. Vocabulary is key. Carry them with you. Flip through them when you're standing in line at the grocery store.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 14:33:37 2019 No.13638828 >>13627137 three years of high school church latin two years of koine greek >>13627283 my pastor grampa taught me one on one

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 14:37:37 2019 No.13638842 >>13629622 he's lying on the internet, anon

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 15:21:41 2019 No.13639075 >>13638788 There's an institution that teaches all kinds of courses for anyone who's willing to pay 70€

Anonymous Wed Aug 14 15:24:31 2019 No.13639093

>>13638801
No, the "finns are mongols" joke is just a joke. I have black hair, but don't look any different from the average european.
There are some russian communities in the cities, but only the border guards and businessmen learn russian for the job. Otherwise no-one here understands russian apart from harasoo and davai.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 15:35:08 2019 No.13639171 >>13627559 Like I said, you've never read anything in Old Norse.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 15:48:53 2019 No.13639275 Does anyone wanna chat in Latin?

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 15:56:05 2019 No.13639313 >>13639275 I would if I could

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 15:57:49 2019 No.13639328 >>13639275 >>13639313 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCsGZDMlhY0

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 15:59:44 2019 No.13639339 >>13639313 You are not proficient enough or?

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 16:15:36 2019 No.13639446 >>13639339 non parlare

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 16:19:42 2019 No.13639467 >>13639446 Ēn?! (Really?!/Come on!) Get to work, anon. Latin is patrician.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 16:25:09 2019 No.13639489 >>13639467 I will, I'm >>13638776

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 16:37:38 2019 No.13639543 >>13639489 Ah have fun desu. And keep studying after the course is finished too

Anonymous Wed Aug 14 17:02:06 2019 No.13639670

2.5 years of self study. Vocabulary is the biggest hurdle. I am constantly looking up words and writing defenitions.
Idioms are another difficult part since I don't have anyone to point them out to me.
I can read Latin as well as I could read Shakespeare in high school. That is, I can read left to right (no verb searching, etc) but have to read a sentence or paragraph a few times to fully get it and usually have to look up a couple words.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 17:04:42 2019 No.13639689 >>13639670 >2.5 years of self study What method?

Anonymous Wed Aug 14 17:10:04 2019 No.13639720

>>13639689
I spent a month or two grinding indicative verb conjugations and 1st,2nd and 3rd noun declensions. Then I worked through wheelock's latin, and a couple intermediate readers (wheelock's intermediate reader and Cambridge's reading Ovid and augustus to nero) while grinding vocabulary decks on anki and essential Latin Vocabulary by Mark A.E. Williams.
Now I am reading Seneca's letters.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 17:25:24 2019 No.13639787 >>13639720 Try using it actively and talking to people in it, you'll memorise words much faster that way

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 17:30:30 2019 No.13639816 >>13639787 I have no one to talk to though

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 17:35:59 2019 No.13639839 >>13639816 Find people online

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 17:36:01 2019 No.13639840 Learning it in university at the moment, I'm excited to move on to the intermediate courses. We haven't read any complete works yet at our level, just fragments of Plato/Aristotle/Euripides.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 18:50:59 2019 No.13640153 >>13639275 You can talk to me in Latin and I'll talk back in Italian or Spanish :)

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 20:01:59 2019 No.13640386 >>13639840 What's your degree? Mostly women or men? Do they try to explain Rome and Greece history with a current vision of the world?

Anonymous Wed Aug 14 20:36:33 2019 No.13640522
File: 215 KB, 1416x1050, 1558907888454.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>13627137
Greek is my mother language. Can understand Koine/Medieval Greek fluently with the exception of certain words, and i can more or less get the concept of what is written about in Classical Greek, depends on the simplicity of the text as well, since many grammatical rules and words have fallen out of use. As for Homeric Greek i can only recognise certain words. Trying to understand better Classical Greek grammar and learn latin rn.
Τα αρχαία ελληνιkά μπορούν πολλές φορές να είναι δυσνόητα αkόμα kαι για εμάς, kρατηθείτε γερά αδελφοί.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 21:25:44 2019 No.13640686 >>13640522 where do you download books and audiobooks? how are you studying classical Greek? what do you prefer? demotic or katharevousa?

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 23:06:26 2019 No.13641063 >>13640522 what's your opinion on modern Greek literature?

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 23:49:54 2019 No.13641271 >>13638807 I had that, thicc orange one wans't it. Didn't like that book.

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 23:56:06 2019 No.13641300 >>13627137 >learnt

>>	Anonymous Wed Aug 14 23:57:33 2019 No.13641307 >>13627137 No, I went for Old German, Middle German and Church Slavonic.

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 00:34:16 2019 No.13641424 >>13641307 why did you decide that? what have you read so far? any insights in the language? best moment or epiphany during the process? how do you think they have changed you? how did you learn?

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 02:23:19 2019 No.13641676 >>13635592 Thanks for this recc, my dude. I think I will order this book, as someone who just got done formally studying Greek

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 02:29:52 2019 No.13641692 >>13627137 I'm thinking of learning Lithuanian, and that would be a kind of gateway drug to Sanskrit and Ancient Greek, so perhaps.

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 04:48:14 2019 No.13641976 >>13640153 Mirabile auditu, amice. Quid novi? Quomodo te habes?

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 04:49:17 2019 No.13641979 >>13641307 Canst þú éac Ænglisc?

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 04:58:20 2019 No.13641998 >>13630473 >Ecclesiastical pronunciation lol

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 06:08:07 2019 No.13642157 >>13641998 Yeah, I always die a little when someone says they speak latin and then start speaking in an ecclesiastical manner >Yeah man, did you read what Chisero wrote about Saesar in the sirkus?

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 06:11:20 2019 No.13642164 >>13642157 >>Yeah man, did you read what Chisero wrote about Saesar in the sirkus? That is not even Ecclesastical. It would be Chichero, Chezar, and chircus.

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 06:58:06 2019 No.13642275 >>13641307 >went for Old German, Middle German So you're a german that wants to read the Nibelungenlied in it's original?

Anonymous Thu Aug 15 08:19:00 2019 No.13642520

>>13641976
Estoy bastante bien. Gracias por inquirir. ¿Y tú? ¿Cuánto tiempo llevas aprendiendo la lengua latina y por qué lo decidiste?
/
Sto abbastanza bene Grazie per avermelo chiesto. E tu? Da quanto tempo impari la lingua latina e perché l’hai deciso?

Anonymous Thu Aug 15 08:50:50 2019 No.13642603
File: 93 KB, 680x509, 9e8.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>13640686
I don't download them from anywhere, i buy them, since learning ancient greek is a big thing here we have plenty of books about grammar, dictionaries and exercise books. I begun studying it like any other greek did in school, but now im also self-teaching myself using grammar books and by attending university lessons. People who constructed katharevousa and spoke it actually made a lot of pretentious grammar mistakes for the sake of it sounding "archaic and proper". The english equelevant would be sticking -th after every word so it sounds more "medieval". Demotic is actually grammatically sound. Either ways the vocabulary remains the same for the most part.

>>13641063
Honestly i think it's a shame that it's being completely overlooked in favor of ancient texts. I mean yeah, obviously the texts in ancient greek are hugely more important, but they seem to literally overshadow the entirety of greek writtings that followed them in the 2000 years after. Contrary to popular belief, we never stopped producing literature, poetry and philosophy. Odysseas Elytis and George Seferis even won the Nobel Prize in Literature.
Η έλλειψη αναγνωρίσεως Βυζαντινών συγγραφέων είναι τραγιkή kατά την γνώμη μου

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 09:17:30 2019 No.13642671 File: 46 KB, 510x250, kant_hegel_marx_510.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13627137 >What's stopping you from reading the greatest works of mankind? Not knowing German.

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 09:40:20 2019 No.13642729 >>13637722 That's because the guy is Italian. Italians speak English with an Italian accent too. I seriously doubt it sounded like that in the past

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 10:02:21 2019 No.13642810 >>13640386 I'm in philosophy, actually. It's a decent mix of men and women. I didn't want to be a filthy monolingual and I like Plato so I decided to take the class. It focuses primarily on the language, not the history, unfortunately.

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 11:34:41 2019 No.13643212 >>13642671 What stopping you from learning german?

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 11:36:21 2019 No.13643218 >>13643212 he's probably a Kraut shilling

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 12:14:51 2019 No.13643397 >>13642603 whats the difference between every Greek stage in the language? any modern Greek books' recomendations?

Anonymous Thu Aug 15 12:19:24 2019 No.13643416

>>13642603
Any good Greek romantic nationalist books from the 19th century or early 20th century when Greeks were constantly taking back chunks of ancestral Greece from kebab?

You should learn Ancient Greek until you can speak, write, and read it totally fluently, and then advocate for it as an esoteric lingua franca alongside Latin.

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 13:38:15 2019 No.13643802 >>1364260 do you know if there are audiobooks in greek?

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 14:02:36 2019 No.13643920 >>13642671 Kant and Hegel I get but why Marx?

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 14:03:38 2019 No.13643924 >>13643218 >a kraut Schilling

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 14:17:59 2019 No.13644004 Is it possible to self-teach oneself a langauge to almost complete fluency?

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 14:38:55 2019 No.13644093 >>13627137 Lingua Latina didici ut linguae credita satisfecerim.

Anonymous Thu Aug 15 14:51:34 2019 No.13644147
File: 304 KB, 720x717, Screenshot_2019-08-11-01-36-58-144_com.instagram.android.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>13643397
The best way to explain how greek has swifted is that throughout the ages it's grammar has been simplified, certain words and expressions have fallen out of use, and certain words have changed meaning. That being said, greek is a very conservative language, majorly i believe because we always used as sources of study our own ancient texts. Today you can easily use the ancient word σωφροσύνη/sophrosyne instead of the more modern εγkράτεια/egratia, and a lot of vocabulary has remained the same.
Appart from the Novel Prize winners, i recommend Bizyinos, Papadiamantis and Kazantzakis for literature and Solomos, Palamas and Cavafis for poetry. Also Erotokritos by Kortezos is considered the best writing of the Greek Renaissance.

>>13643416
Honestly i think Solomos's works capture the feel and idealism of Greece being liberated, specifically his Ode to Liberty. Generally greek poets of the time focused majorly on the revival of the ancient greek/pagan ideals and even attempt to draw lines between pagan ancient greece and christian byzantium. For the later i recommend Andreas Kalvos and his Odes collection.
Τα αρχαία ελληνιkά ήδη χρησιμοποιούνται ως εσωτεριστιkή γλώσσα από διδάkτορες εδώ.
Στην ειkόνα είναι αναπαράσταση του Δία kαι του μωρού Διονύσου από Βυζαντινό χειρόγραφο.

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 14:53:37 2019 No.13644155 >>13642520 Gaudeo te valere. Ego quoque valeo. Neque Hispanice neque Italice loqui possum, sed tamen intellexi omnia quae scripsisti. Linguam latinam discere priore anno coepi quia haec lingua antiqua me vere delectat.

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 15:10:10 2019 No.13644213 >>13644004 yeah

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 15:31:54 2019 No.13644324 Anyone here fluent in linear b?

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 15:48:51 2019 No.13644387 >>13644004 yeah but it's gonna take a little time

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 15:50:14 2019 No.13644394 is modern greek worth learning for its own literature and as a stepping stone to older versions of the language?

Anonymous Thu Aug 15 16:10:19 2019 No.13644463

>>13644155
Yo también puedo comprender cualquier texto latino si la gramática no es difícil.
¿Cómo has estudiado Latín? ¿Qué libros has disfrutado más? ¿Dónde encontraste las mayores dificultades?
/
Posso anche capire qualsiasi testo latino se la grammatica non è difficile.
Come hai studiato il latino? Quali libri ti sono piaciuti di più? Dove hai trovato le maggiori difficoltà?

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 16:35:11 2019 No.13644573 God damn I am so angry that we didn't get taught latin and greek at school and instead got half-assed french and spanish lessons. learning languages as an adult is a pain

Anonymous Thu Aug 15 16:44:24 2019 No.13644598

>>13644573
No need for the anger, no who had latin in school was fluent in it by the end. Not only did almost no one take the class very seriously, even the ones that have weren't at the end. Yes, if one was serious about learning it since age 12, one could become fluent in it with only minor work as an adult. But let's be honest, no one took learning latin very serious at age 12.

Anonymous Thu Aug 15 16:54:33 2019 No.13644655

>>13644147
Yeah it is such a shame that too many ottoman-byzantine era is destroyed because muh classical age.

Only recently Byzantium and even Ottoman periods are valued, same true for Turkey where they began to take an active interest in the Byzantine past.

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 16:58:16 2019 No.13644676 >tfw you will never learn Latin before your native language like Montaigne did

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 17:03:13 2019 No.13644700 >>13644676 Well I could(if you consider your native language that of your ancestors and not that of the place grew up in), since I haven't bothered to learn nigger as of yet.

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 17:12:03 2019 No.13644731 >>13644463 Libris H. Oerbergi atque F Wheelocki usus sum. Modus verbalis conjunctivus me vexat quia inflexiones satis numerosae sunt. Potesne etiam Francogallice loqui?

Anonymous Thu Aug 15 18:35:22 2019 No.13645027

>>13644731
Esp
Sí, puedo hablar además en francés y catalán. No tengo problemas entendiendo el francés escrito, he leído sólo a Camus en francés, pero hablándolo y escribiéndolo cometo errores.
¿Qué literatura has leído en latín?

Fr
Oui, je peux écrire surtout en français, et catalan. Je peux comprendre le français écrit, j'ai lu seulement à Camus, mais en parlant et en écrivant, je fais des erreurs. Quelle type de literature as-tu lu en latin?

it
Sì, posso anche parlare in francese e catalano. Non ho problemi a capire il francese scritto, ho letto solo Camus in francese, ma parlando e scrivendo commetto errori.
Quale letteratura hai letto in latino?

cat
No tinc problemes entenent el francès escrit, he llegit només a Camus en francès, però parlant i escrivint cometo errors.
Què literatura has llegit en llatí?

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 19:30:23 2019 No.13645210 >>13644147 what books do you regard as the masterpieces of each epoch of the language? how is regarded learning Ancient Greece in Greece nowadays?

Anonymous Thu Aug 15 20:47:25 2019 No.13645561

>>13644676
>The intellectual education of Montaigne was assigned to a German tutor (a doctor named Horstanus, who could not speak French). His father hired only servants who could speak Latin, and they also were given strict orders always to speak to the boy in Latin. The same rule applied to his mother, father, and servants, who were obliged to use only Latin words he employed, and thus they acquired a knowledge of the very language his tutor taught him. Montaigne's Latin education was accompanied by constant intellectual and spiritual stimulation. He was familiarized with Greek by a pedagogical method that employed games, conversation, and exercises of solitary meditation, rather than the more traditional books.

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 21:04:56 2019 No.13645627 I know Latin decently well, but I'm still trying to learn Greek using Mastronarde. WHY ARE PRINCIPAL PARTS SO HARD TO MEMORIZE (compared to Latin, having only four, seems way easier)

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 21:12:46 2019 No.13645669 >>13645627 How many does Greek have and what are they?

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 21:15:54 2019 No.13645684 >>13645669 Six (Present, imperfect, future, aorist, perfect, pluperfect, pluperfect). Essentially if you know the principal parts you can conjugate any verb in a language. Latin seems more regular (amo, amare, amavi, amatum [to love] for example)

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 21:20:53 2019 No.13645705 >>13645684 why would you memorize it? you will never speak Ancient Greek, just study enough to recognize it when you read Greek

Anonymous Thu Aug 15 21:30:04 2019 No.13645745

>>13645705
If its a simple verb like (to loosen): λέγω, λέγεις, λέγει, (λέγετον, λέγετον,) λέγομεν, λέγετε, λέγουσι(ν).

But irregular ones: φέρω (to bear) οἴσω, ἤνεγkον/ἤνεγkα, ἐνήνοχα, ἐνήνεγμαι, ἠνέχθην.

See how much it differs? If you can't recognize that form then you will miss the verb completely.

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 21:32:31 2019 No.13645757 >>13645745 That's not much harder than fero, ferre, tuli, latum. The last 4 are close enough to recognize

Anonymous Thu Aug 15 21:34:23 2019 No.13645767

>>13645757
Fair enough, but the accent placement also kinda fucks me up. I'm using cue cards so I'll get it eventually. Latin just seemed easier for memorization, but the grammar for Greek is better with the inclusion of the article with everything (so far)

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 22:01:04 2019 No.13645889 >>13645767 what have you read so far in Latin and how long have you been studying them?

>>	Anonymous Thu Aug 15 23:23:20 2019 No.13646152 >>13642671 >no Goethe But anon you said greatest

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 16 00:45:05 2019 No.13646408 >>13644394 I'm thinking about that, learning MG in order to get deeper and deeper into the language and history progressively

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 16 01:33:30 2019 No.13646532 >>13645889 Three years - I've translated Caesar, Livy and a random collection of authors

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 16 02:23:34 2019 No.13646651 >>13627137 I'm Brazillian and my job uses it a lot so I thinking about learning it (Latin) eventually.

Anonymous Fri Aug 16 04:43:24 2019 No.13646937

>>13645027
>esp, fr, it, cat
Vev (wew), vere eruditus es. Nunc paratus es ad latine discendum. Legistine libros scriptorum romanorum in his linguis editos?

Legi Ceasaris Commentarios, partes Vergilii Aeneidos, partes Bibliae sacrae, Epitome historiae sacrae, Plauti Amphitryon etc. Sed Catulli carmina me maxime delectat.

Anonymous Fri Aug 16 05:53:13 2019 No.13647097
File: 154 KB, 800x1009, 1552243422769.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>13645210
Well for Homeric Greece the Homeric Epics obviously.
For Classical Greece i would say firstly Plato's Republic and the Symposium and then Aristotle's History of Animals and then Nickomacheian Ethics. Plato had a huge influence on early christian scholars and Aristotle had a huge influence on medieval christian scholars.
For Byzantine Greece I myself am a bit lost, since even in Greece the Byzantine Empire and it's feats are criminaly overlooked and brushed aside in favor of "muh classicism". So sadly there aren't many publishing houses that publish works of Byzantine writers. Either way, i would recommend looking into the works of the Three Holy Hierarchs, especially Gregory the Theologician, since their influence in byzantine-age thought and philosophy was so great that the orthodox church has proclaimed them the patron saints of education and knowledge. For Late Byzantine Greece, when it started falling appart I would recommend Nomoi or Book of Laws from Gemistus Pletho.
For Renaissance Greece I surely say that Erotokritos by Kornaros is the masterpiece of the time.
For Early Modern/Liberated Greece i would say Solomos' Hymn to Liberty, but since it's too focused on the greek fight for independence and might be boring to a non-greek, I would recommend any of his other poems or collections.
For Modern Greece i would say the poems of Odysseas Elytis. But personally, I think the Last Temptation by Kazantzakis or the Crime of my Mother by Bizyinos are also excellent works.
Ντρέπομαι λίγο για την έλλειψη γνώσεων μου περί βυζαντινών συγγραφέων

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 16 06:20:16 2019 No.13647160 >>13629538 good luck anon

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 16 07:07:44 2019 No.13647291 >>13645561 >16th century: learn a language naturally through engaging with people who speak it >21st century: sit down and memorize grammar tables like a retard

Anonymous Fri Aug 16 07:20:54 2019 No.13647306

>>13647291
These days even less people speak these dead languages fluently than they did back then. If you want to be fluent in any of these ancient languages, chances are that it would be a lot faster to just learn grammer by heart than it would be to look for that one person with whom you can speak your target language.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 16 08:09:05 2019 No.13647418 >>13647291 Montaigne was a exception. Most people in his day studied grammar just like we do. His father was an exceptional and smart man.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 16 08:39:59 2019 No.13647486 >>13647291 natural method is king

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 16 08:41:00 2019 No.13647488 >>13645745 >λέγω (to loosen) You mean as in λεγω οφ ιτ?

Anonymous Fri Aug 16 09:57:21 2019 No.13647691

>>13646937
Cuanto más aprendo en estas lenguas, más fácil me resultará el final estudio del Latín, por eso lo sigo postergando. Sé que mientras siga en este camino, más rápido o más lento, llegaré a la meta.
Los libros latinos los leo en español sobretodo, es, a mi parecer, la adaptación perfecta del latín como lengua moderna.
¿Qué te parecieron los Comentarios de César?
Es el libro que más me atrae en Latín.
¿Por qué te delecta Cátulo?
Mi interés en la historia clásica nació con la trilogía Africanus, de Posteguillo. No es muy veraz pero son grandes novelas.
¿Tienes Telegram? Podemos seguir hablando por ahí si el hilo se cierra.

Com més aprenc en aquestes llengües, més fàcil em resultarà al final estudi del Llatí, per això el segueixo postergant. Sé que mentre segueixi en aquest camí, més ràpid o més lent, arribaré a la meta.
Els llibres llatins els llegeixo en espanyol sobretot, és, al meu parer, l'adaptació perfecta del llatí com a llengua moderna.
Què et van semblar els Comentaris de César? Per què et delecta Catul?
És el llibre que més m'atrau en Llatí.
El meu interès en la història clàssica va néixer amb la trilogia Africanus, de Posteguillo. No és molt veraç però són grans novel·les.
Tens Telegram? Podem seguir parlant-hi si el aquest tema es tanca.

Plus j'apprendrai dans ces langues, plus il me sera facile de trouver l'étude finale du latin, alors je continue de remettre le latin à plus tard.
Je sais que si je continue sur cette voie, plus vite ou plus lentement, j'arriverai à mon but.
Les livres latin je les ai lu surtout en espagnol, c’est, à mon avis, la parfaite adaptation du latin en tant que langue moderne.
Qu'as-tu pensé des commentaires de Cesarr?
C'est le livre qui m'attire le plus en latin.
Pourquoi tu plais Catulle?
Mon intérêt pour l’histoire classique est né avec la trilogie Africanus de Posteguillo. Ce n'est pas très vrai mais ce sont de grands romans.
As-tu de Telegram? Nous pouvons parler là.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 16 13:14:55 2019 No.13648356 >>13647097 What's like living in Greece now? I really think that ''the Greeks who gave us all that marvelous culture are dust now. As for their far-flung progeny, it’s sad to see how little they resemble their ancestors''.

Anonymous Fri Aug 16 13:33:02 2019 No.13648454

>>13647691
>¿Qué te parecieron los Comentarios de César?
Illa mema de frumento vera est kek. Immo saepe de causis frumentandi scripsit Caesar. Non sum tam eloquens ut de libro bene colloquar, sed liber bonus est si tiro sis quia sententiis simplicibus usus est scriptor. Utinam tamen scriberet plus de militibus communibus. Illud capitulum de Voreno Pulloneque(?) satis iucundum est. Liber caret fabulis similibus, mea sententia.

>¿Por qué te delecta Cátulo?
Fortasse quia eum primum legi omnium poetarum. Fortasse propter sinceritatem eius verbis. Non inaudax est Catullus, atque semper dicit quae dicere vult. Consuete non amo versus sordidos sed versus eius me non vexant. Integritatem aequalem habet et in carminibus foedis de inimicis et in carminibus pulchriis de amatrice aut fratre mortuo. Ut supra scripsi, non tam eloquens sum, infeliciter. De litteris latinis bene scribere non possum.

>Mi interés en la historia clásica nació con la trilogía Africanus, de Posteguillo. No es muy veraz pero son grandes novelas.
Hm, ignoro hos libros. Servabo eos in mente.

>Tens Telegram? Podem seguir parlant-hi si el aquest tema es tanca.
Heu, Telegram non habeo; Discordiam tamen habeo.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 16 13:44:45 2019 No.13648518 >niggers chatting in Latin about Catullus and Caesar Imagine how pretentious a /lit/ meet-up would be. I can see Stacies pointing at everyone and laughing.

Anonymous Fri Aug 16 15:00:02 2019 No.13648861
File: 12 KB, 132x156, IMG_20190701_031847.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>13648356
It's way less tragic than the media paints it to be, lol. We live comfortable lives for the most part, sure our politicians are incredibly corrupt and many people have to work multiple jobs, but hey, show me a country with no problems what so ever. The majority of greeks lead a fine life. It may be partly because 99% of our universities are state funded and we don't have to worry about student debt later in our life like in the USA and other european countries.
Also we think similarly too. "We used to be so great, how the fuck did we end up like this?"
Well in hindsight, modern Greece has come pretty far. It was religiously and partialy ethnically opressed under the rule of an islamic state for nearly 400 years, and in the early 20th century greeks in Anatolia (modern day turkey) faced persecution and genocide that drove them completely out of the east. Yet in only 200 years greece managed to evolve from a literal patch of dirt with no economy or infrastructure, which's literacy rate was probably 3-4% at best, into a 1st world country with a booming tourist business, a huge trading fleet, and if you have turned 18 and don't know AT LEAST a second language appart from greek you are considered uneducated. Sure we aren't a world superpower like we were back in byzantine times, but still we are doing pretty good, and i wouldn't say greece is completely irrelevant.
Όπως kαι να έχει, αυτό που πάντα kάναμε kαλύτερα (έως kαι σήμερα) είναι ο'τι kαι kάνουν kαι οι Εβραίοι. Φεύγαμε σε kάποια χώρα του εξωτεριkού, περνάμε στα χέρια μας όλο το εμπόριο kαι τις επιχειρήσεις, kαι πλουτίζαμε. Γιατί νομίζετε μας αντιπάθησαν οι Τούρkοι αρkετά για να μας διαπράξουν γενοkτονία εναντίον μας;

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 16 15:49:30 2019 No.13649129 >>13648518 says the unilingual Anglo-nigger

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 16 16:01:40 2019 No.13649169 >>13644324 small jej, thanks

Anonymous Fri Aug 16 16:02:00 2019 No.13649172

>>13648454
Es laudable tu latín siendo un discente (estudiante) por sólo un año.
¿Cuál es tu fin futuro con esta lengua?
¿Tienes ánimo de estudiar griego antiguo también?
La trilogía Africanus trata sobre la pugna entre Escipión y Aníbal en las guerras púnicas. Plauto aparece como personaje.
Tengo Discordia, pero no sé muy bien cómo utilizarlo. Éste es mi usuario:
QUIJOTE7
#2510
Saludos.

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 16 16:04:00 2019 No.13649179 >>13642671 >no goethe >no schiller >no mann >no hölderlin ???

Anonymous Fri Aug 16 18:49:54 2019 No.13649901

>>13649172
Gratias tibi ago, amice.
>¿Cuál es tu fin futuro con esta lengua?
Volo 'in vita vera' cum hominibus sermones habere. Volo quoque fabulam brevem sive carmen latine scribere. Sed nunc tantum lego quae alii homines scripserunt.
>¿Tienes ánimo de estudiar griego antiguo también?
Tempus ad discendum linguae graeca nunc non habeo. Sed immo, discam illam linguam quoque.
>La trilogía Africanus trata sobre la pugna entre Escipión y Aníbal en las guerras púnicas. Plauto aparece como personaje.
Legi paginam de scriptore on Vicipaedia. Grammaticus est. Certe sermo eius latinitate plenus est?
>QUIJOTE7
Fundatus

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 16 18:59:30 2019 No.13649950 >>13649901 ad discendum linguam graecam oops

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 16 20:33:42 2019 No.13650338 >>13649901 Quid scripisti legere possum, sed mihi scribere difficile est

>>	Anonymous Fri Aug 16 20:38:11 2019 No.13650366 >>13627137 How ancient is ancient Greek? How close (if at all) is it to modern spoken Greek?

Anonymous Fri Aug 16 23:03:29 2019 No.13650940

>>13649901
Salve, amigo. Acepté tu petición en Discordia.
Existe tu nombre en español: bifronte.
https://dle.rae.es/?w=bifronte
Podremos celebrar nuestro coloquio privado ahí si deleta es esta página del foro.
No comprendo la sentencia 'Certe sermo eius latinitate plenus est?'.
¿Me interrogas si en el libro hay partes en latín?
Obiter dictum, ¿lees en otras lenguas?

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 17 00:34:39 2019 No.13651361 >>13648861 How is education in Greece?

Anonymous Sat Aug 17 01:12:44 2019 No.13651539

>>13627137
OP, everyone in this thread
You're a bunch of pretentious blowhards
I cannot fucking stand the amount of dipshits who think because they read the Cambridge Grammar course 1 pdf for a month they can tell women they speak 'latin'
you guys make me fucking sick

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 17 01:30:58 2019 No.13651594 >>13627283 ἀδελφέ*

Anonymous Sat Aug 17 01:32:05 2019 No.13651599

>>13639171
I have, and it's nothing compared to the Greek or Latin corpus. All of the interesting stuff you are thinking of (Havamal and such) were written by Christians generations after paganism ceased being practiced. It's interesting but not even close.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 17 01:38:26 2019 No.13651630 >>13627137 >What's stopping you from reading the greatest works of mankind? Indolence and idiocy, took Latin A at university but gave up as soon as it got slightly hard.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 17 02:08:20 2019 No.13651723 >>13651630 The first language is the hardest to learn. With Latin, nothing worth having comes easy

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 17 03:06:51 2019 No.13651874 >>13651599 Nordicucks are ridiculous trying to compare themselves to the GrecoRoman canon.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 17 03:14:45 2019 No.13651907 is it really that much harder to go from koine to attic?

Anonymous Sat Aug 17 04:27:59 2019 No.13652103

>>13651599
>I have
Okay, what have you read in Old Norse?
>written by Christians generations after paganism ceased being practiced.
Written, not composed. And that has nothing to do with the quality of the work.

Read prose, like Njála, for example. If you think it's a barbaric and primitive 'nothing' you're just blind.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 17 06:18:13 2019 No.13652412 Should I start with Greek or Latin? Is there a particular benefit/disadvantage to either sequence?

Anonymous Sat Aug 17 06:25:14 2019 No.13652444

>>13652412
Latin's easier to learn because the grammar/morphology is simpler, and there are more resources for it. Pretty much everything you have to learn in Greek, Latin will give you a gentler intro to.

I never understood the rule against learning more than one language at once though. Once you finish a Latin textbook and you're familiar with all the main grammar ideas and you're familiar with how much morphology you're expected to be familiar with, and you've moved on to translating real texts, I don't see any reason not to start on Greek if you can handle that. But go to the back of both textbooks and look at how many paradigms you'll be expected to know and you'll understand why fewer people learn Greek.

Honestly it's not that bad. High classical Greek is actually kind of easier to understand than Latin equivalents. It's just all those forms you have to learn in the first few weeks/months.

Anonymous Sat Aug 17 06:44:31 2019 No.13652530

>>13652444
Thanks, anon. Also, since I'm an ESL, do I get any sort of advantage over Anglos for speaking Hungarian natively? I mean, what are the "linguistic mechanics" that Anglos have a hard time with in Latin and Greek, that other people speaking languages which are not alien to those particular mechanics have an easier time with? Hungarian is agglutinative and has lots of cases, which English does not, but I'm not sure whether that would give me a leg up on Anglos or not.

Anonymous Sat Aug 17 06:59:00 2019 No.13652595

>>13652530
I don't know much about Hungarian grammar but if you're familiar with cases and especially cases governed by regular inflection schemes, you should be much better off than an English speaker (in my experience at least) but I don't know if agglutination will help much, aside from simple agglutinatives like compound words.

I'm a native English speaker and learning Latin was first time I ever had to think of language in linguistic terms. I always remember trying to understand what the fuck a "future perfect" could even logically mean, because in English you don't think of the logic of grammatical tense directly, you just kind of make use of it unconsciously. Something like "when I will have had coffee tomorrow morning, I will go to work" took me a while to get.

Overall though I think the biggest problem that Anglos have with Latin/Greek is simply that we're not taught languages that way anymore. We usually learn by very vague immersion methods, or by "taking classes" on something for 10 years with only vague comprehension milestones. I've found that if I talk to a European who "knows French" and an Anglo who "knows French," the Euro is more likely to mean implicitly "I sat down and studied French grammar and can read/write it fairly well" while the Anglo is much more likely to mean "I can kinda-sorta make my way through a text with 'general comprehension' and I can order a glass of water" but the Anglo will still say "I *know* French!" with equal seriousness. In college likewise, the people who really KNOW their acquired languages are usually simply lucky -- they either did so much immersion or studied it for so long that they actually fucking learned it eventually, despite the shoddy instruction methods. For every one of those, there are two dozen dabblers who will probably never be able to read literature, but who don't even know what's holding them back because they've simply never experienced rigorous study before.

THAT is why Latin/Greek are both initially more difficult + ultimately very rewarding, because you can't vaguely take 8 classes on them, you have to just either learn them or not. With modern languages, even Anglos who COULD learn at this more serious level will still never get the chance, because they'll only be exposed to college courses that treat them like stupid babies who are scared of having to memorize anything.

So if you have experience with learning languages in even a semi-rigorous way, you will be at an advantage. Overall though it's just not that difficult. As long as you are basically intelligent, learning Latin/Greek is 90% making it a regular habit, 10% straining your brain.

Anonymous Sat Aug 17 07:13:52 2019 No.13652658

>>13652595
I see. I did hear about the appalling situation language learning is in over there... people got so scared of "prussian" methods of learning that people will do anything but sit down and actually learn/memorize, if the things I heard about education in English-speaking countries are true.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 17 07:15:06 2019 No.13652662 on the topic of ancient languages, how difficult is it for a modern english speaker to learn both old and middle english? I remember reading some Chaucer at school, but aside from that I have very little experience with middle and zero with old.

Anonymous Sat Aug 17 07:29:25 2019 No.13652710

>>13652662
middle english is easy, with the exception of midlands middle english like that of the pearl poet, which requires extra study. old english is practically a different language. you'd have an easier time learning german than you would old english.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 17 07:40:22 2019 No.13652752 >>13652710 Where can I learn old english(I'm fluent in german)?

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 17 07:55:27 2019 No.13652785 File: 70 KB, 1650x1275, OE magic sheet.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13652752 I suppose any standard grammar will do, seeing that you know German, most of the trouble will be memorizing paradigms and syntax. See pic related.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 17 08:13:15 2019 No.13652829 >>13651539 Imagine doing everything for the sake of impressing women. I truly feel sorry for you anon.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 17 08:40:10 2019 No.13652903 >>13651539 One of the worst posts on this board right now.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 17 08:42:10 2019 No.13652909 >>13651539 based

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 17 08:42:19 2019 No.13652910 >>13651539 >implying women are impressed by guys who speak latin They just don't give a fuck about things like that lmao

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 17 09:11:28 2019 No.13653002 >>13652910 This, I can't understand how sheltered some people browsing this board must be to actually believe women care about such things.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 17 09:29:54 2019 No.13653061 File: 9 KB, 216x250, 1478558197186s.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13627137 >duolingo Latin course coming out next month Latin is normie tier now. Guess I'll have to learn Greek.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 17 10:20:21 2019 No.13653259 >>13653061 Learn akkadian instead

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 17 11:54:26 2019 No.13653647 >>13653061 Finally. They had High Valyrian and Klingon for years. Ridiculous.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 17 12:20:12 2019 No.13653765 >>13652752 Ask me anything about Old English. t. knows Old English and some German

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 17 12:35:56 2019 No.13653843 >>13653259 Learn Sumerian instead

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 17 13:00:46 2019 No.13653997 >>13653843 >>13653259 Harrapan

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 17 13:03:39 2019 No.13654017 >>13653843 Learn Proto Human instead

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 17 16:00:55 2019 No.13655139 >>13654017 It's fun to think about. Like at some point was there a semi-closed language? Were clicks, expressions and handsigns common? Was the vocab all onomatopoeia or animal sounds? What can be known?!

Anonymous Sat Aug 17 16:03:38 2019 No.13655154
File: 3 KB, 219x231, 1565821348402.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>13655139
>What can be known?!

>tfw the utterly pure yen of western man for knowledge reappears in its radical openness for the first time since aristotle on /lit/ of all places
>tfw i was here to witness the birth of a new age of wissenschaft

To follow knowledge like a sinking star,
Beyond the utmost bound of human thought.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 17 19:00:40 2019 No.13656154 >>13654017 Learn ProtoGod

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 17 19:45:15 2019 No.13656412 >>13653061 If you really think that people learn languages on Duolingo...

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 17 19:46:16 2019 No.13656417 File: 151 KB, 860x1396, CzpgmUP.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13656412 This pic related

Anonymous Sat Aug 17 20:23:57 2019 No.13656592
File: 141 KB, 1000x1091, 1555357839039.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>13650366
As i said before, the biggest change is how much the grammar has been simplified. If a modern greek without higher education looks at a paragraph in ancient/classical greek, he will be able to recognise and understand the words/vocabulary, but he will either get only the basic concept of what the paragraph is about, or will not be able to understand the meaning at all.
The best way i can make you imagine it would be if you took a paragraph written in english, and runned it through an AI that kept the words intact but completely randomized the grammar. When you would read the processed paragraph, you still would be be able to understand the words themselves, but the context would be lost.
Όσο έχει να kάνει με τα ελληνιkά της Καινής Διαθήkης kαι των Βυζαντινών χρόνων, είναι πιο kατανοητά kαθώς μοιάζουν περισσότερο με τα σημερινά ως προς την απλότητα.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 17 20:38:03 2019 No.13656659 test

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 17 20:40:11 2019 No.13656667 >>13656659 based

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 17 22:43:31 2019 No.13657286 >>13656592 If Plato rose from the tomb, would he be able to understand modern Greek? By the way, whats is the hodiernal opinion of the Greeks on Plato, Socrates, Aristotle, etc?

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 17 22:50:20 2019 No.13657340 File: 5 KB, 272x185, download.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >tfw Goethe is appearing in my dreams telling me to learn German >tfw I'll have to put a hold on learning Greek feelsbat

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 17 22:59:17 2019 No.13657397 >>13655154 Thanks cat. But no breaking the fourth wall. Drugs are no excuse.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 17 23:07:25 2019 No.13657437 >>13657340 That seems pretty intense.

>>	Anonymous Sat Aug 17 23:15:57 2019 No.13657466 >>13657437 What else am I supposed to do? The only one who may persuade me is Socrates, but he's too preoccupied listening to Hades' golden, silk-like oratory skills.

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 18 00:32:14 2019 No.13657732 >>13657340 how long have you been learning Greek and how? why would waste all that effort to forget it?

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 18 01:01:10 2019 No.13657823 any reason I shouldn't just go for koine

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 18 01:01:46 2019 No.13657827 >>13627137 >learnt naw i havent learnt nuthin uh late

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 18 02:28:49 2019 No.13658024 >>13657823 no reason at all, its very easy to work your way up or down from koine, its not very different from Aristotelian Greek

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 18 03:27:34 2019 No.13658153 >>13656417 Dude speaking about German is an obnoxious faggot

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 18 03:32:15 2019 No.13658162 >>13627137 >learning dead languages What an exercise in futility.

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 18 03:33:39 2019 No.13658167 >>13658162 retard

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 18 03:36:43 2019 No.13658172 >>13658167 Now say it in ancient latin and greek. I bet it'll sting more. Or make me laugh harder.

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 18 03:36:56 2019 No.13658174 >>13658162 life is an exercise in futilty

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 18 03:38:04 2019 No.13658176 >>13658174 Yes. Why add to it by learning utterly useless things? Except to circle-jerk in very small fart-sniffing groups?

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 18 03:40:05 2019 No.13658183 >>13658176 Everything is utterly useless, so you end up learning just what interests you, like in this case, Latin. Don't hate because people dont think like you.

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 18 03:41:03 2019 No.13658185 >>13658183 I'd argue that not everything is utterly useless, and the futility of life is a point of view taken on by mainly pseuds. >Don't hate because people dont think like you. Don't project.

Anonymous Sun Aug 18 03:44:22 2019 No.13658189

>>13658185
You are the one who came to a thread about old languages to mock the ones who put the effort into learning through the roots of western civilization.
It seems you are arguing for the sake of arguing and trying to piss off people.
I really think that talking with me is uterly useless and yet you are still here, waiting, updating the thread, to see if your acumen gets replies.
We both can play this ''grinch'' game.

Anonymous Sun Aug 18 03:48:28 2019 No.13658199

>>13658189
Dead languages serve no practical value. So it's an exercise in futility. A time waste, in no way "learning the roots of western civilization" which is such an exaggerated claim it made me chuckle when I read it.
>It seems you are arguing for the sake of arguing and trying to piss off people.
Not really. But I guess reducing me to a provocateur makes it easier to cope for you.
>I really think that talking with me is utterly useless
That's what you think though. I don't think that. So your argument defeats itself.
>We both can play this ''grinch'' game.
You're the only one playing it - with yourself.

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 18 03:50:01 2019 No.13658203 >>13658176 Classical language graduates have the highest verbal iq of literally any graduate. Stay mad while they have deeper insight into our language than you ever will.

Anonymous Sun Aug 18 03:57:29 2019 No.13658211

>>13658199
You really had to be very obtuse not to valorate the classical education, yet use words that come from this futile language like provocateur, case, project, value, civilization, exaggerated, argument, acumen, etc.
''To be ignorant of what occurred before you were born is to remain always a child. For what is the worth of human life, unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors by the records of history?''.
The history of western civlization is interwoven with the Latin language. Your own language is nothing without Latin, the moment you try to arrive to the world of the ideas, you find yourself in the cage of the Germanic language and get free with the GrecoRoman lexicography.
You really sound like an edgy 20 years old frustrated man, i know it is ad hominem but i can feel your pretentiousness from here, guardian of true knowledge and of that futile and not futile.

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 18 03:59:16 2019 No.13658217 >>13658211 oops, he used the term ad hominem, he must have forgotten he was talking in English

Anonymous Sun Aug 18 04:00:44 2019 No.13658221

>>13656412
i remember how duolingo used to have a fluency rating where it told people they were "93% fluent" in a language because they tapped on these dumb translation exercises a bunch. then all these 90+% "fluent speakers" of french would try talking to a french person or even just watching an asterix cartoon and realize they can't speak french at all. in the end they had to remove the fluency statistic from the system completely to better maintain the illusion that the whole thing isn't a complete waste of time.

Anonymous Sun Aug 18 04:09:48 2019 No.13658238

>>13658199
>dead languages serve no practical value
Define practical. Is gaining as deep an understanding as possible into some of the greatest works of literature and philosophy ever written pointless? Is understanding the antecedents of the language we currently speak futile? How about having an unusually large verbal iq? Is that pointless too?

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 18 04:10:03 2019 No.13658239 >>13656417 why would you repost the advice of someone who is not only an unfunny faggot but also a total lightweight that's amazed by the concept of gendered nouns?

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 18 04:11:03 2019 No.13658241 >>13627165 Learning French and Latin at the same time should make learning both easier.

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 18 04:14:51 2019 No.13658247 >>13658217 Imagine being this ignorant.

Anonymous Sun Aug 18 04:30:29 2019 No.13658276

>>13658211
>You really had to be very obtuse not to valorate the classical education, yet use words that come from this futile language like provocateur, case, project, value, civilization, exaggerated, argument, acumen, etc.
Valorate huh?
Your argument sounds like this: You have to learn how a car is built in order to drive it.
Not really, but like the rest of your arguing, it's bloated self-satisfied rhetoric.
>''To be ignorant of what occurred before you were born is to remain always a child. For what is the worth of human life, unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors by the records of history?''.
I like that quote. It's lofty, but unrealistic if you judge humanity on a timescale, and see that we haven't changed. The only true change is technological. Morality, forms of government, way of thinking - for all these thousands of years of pseuds harping on and on, man has not changed.
>Your own language is nothing without Latin
Assuming I'm native speaker of a language derived from Latin. Quite a leap. But I go back to my first point, you don't have to unearth the roots to eat the fruit. I guess you have to justify your useless knowledge somehow.
Your last sentence is just frothing at the mouth and amusing. Thanks for that.

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 18 09:24:12 2019 No.13658897 >>13650940 ¿Cómo aprendiste español? Comment as-tu appris le français?

Anonymous Sun Aug 18 09:33:40 2019 No.13658939
File: 886 KB, 893x618, 1543875610992.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>13658276
Don't learn the oboe, it's not practical. Don't study ceramics, nobody gets a job as a potter anymore. Don't stop at that scenic view, just keep diving across country to your new job in a city whey you don't know anyone but hey you'll make a lot of money, mostly for someone else, which you can spend on very practical things to boost the economy until you die. Hooray! A life well lived.

Anonymous Sun Aug 18 12:28:22 2019 No.13659792

>>13658897
Aprendí español siendo español.

En ce qui concerne le français, plus vous connaissez de langues romanes, plus il est facile d’en apprendre une nouvelle, même si je ne prétends pas parler un français parfait.
Mais, par exemple, connaissant l'espagnol, vous comprenez rapidement le portugais, l'italien et le catalan.
Et vous? Quelles langues as-tu appris et comment?

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 18 12:30:39 2019 No.13659808 >>13659792 avez-vous appris*

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 18 12:39:26 2019 No.13659853 Tips for learning French? How long till I can read Camus?

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 18 12:43:01 2019 No.13659876 >>13659853 Pretty simple. A few months, and duolingo would unironically be enough to get there. Just pick up the book once you get sick of it and grind through it looking up words you don't know. It will click after a hundred pages or so.

Anonymous Sun Aug 18 12:43:39 2019 No.13659878

>>13627137
Been learning Latin for about a month and a half. About ten chapters through Wheelock, and using anki cards to help with endings and some vocab. Having a blast so far.
Once I'm a few more chapters in, I will also read some of LLPSI in parallel.
Anything I should know?

Anonymous Sun Aug 18 12:47:55 2019 No.13659901

>>13659853
I don't think Camus is difficult to read. You can start with his plays and opuscula.
Surround yourself with French 24/7 and use Anki, and you could be reading him in 2-3 months.
If you had a vast knowledge of English, it will help a lot, most of your words come from French.
If it's the first language you are learning, I would advise taking first Spanish or Italian unless you have a special desire in learning French.

Anonymous Sun Aug 18 12:49:27 2019 No.13659908

>>13659792
Merci, merci, et moi ? Je viens de commencer apprendre le français cette année: je sais seulement un peu de mots en français, mais je suis en train de appendre rapidement. Et, aussi, je veux dire: j'aime que tu apprends des langues très rapidement. Il me fait heureuse, très heureuse, et je sais que tous les mots n'ont pas le raison, mais... merci, merci, et merci.

Ah, oui, j'ai oublié: j'ai appris aussi l'espagnol mais je parle aussi le anglais.

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 18 12:53:27 2019 No.13659924 >>13659908 l'anglais*

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 18 12:55:41 2019 No.13659937 >>13659908 *vous apprenez

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 18 13:01:19 2019 No.13659962 >>13659908 sacre bleu

Anonymous Sun Aug 18 13:13:42 2019 No.13660019
File: 120 KB, 600x600, 1544751622460.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>13659901
>>13659876
I have a vast understanding of both English and Spanish (my native tongue). I have been hearing Netflix shows in French with also French subtitles. Will give Anki and Duolingo a try. Thanks for the advices, amigos.

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 18 13:18:25 2019 No.13660042 File: 101 KB, 490x627, 1557579111502.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13627137 for me? its sanskrit

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 18 13:21:53 2019 No.13660056 >>13660042 I tried learning it about a year ago but gave up because I'm a brainlet. I managed to learn Devanagari though.

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 18 13:22:49 2019 No.13660061 >>13627165 Spinoza and Descartes alone are enough to give Latin the edge over Russian.

Anonymous Sun Aug 18 14:19:21 2019 No.13660371

>>13660019
Entonces no tendrás muchos problemas. Si acaso un par de figuras gramaticales que no existen en español, pero poco más.
El francés coloquial tiene menos tiempos verbales que el español y son en cierta medida regulares.
El francés en términos literarios no difiere mucho del español. Cuando uno se mueve en el registro culto de cualquier lengua romance, acaba retrotrayéndose al latín, vocabulario que comparten todas.
Al francés de hoy día le sucede como al español llevado al extremo, es paupérrimo comparado con las épocas pasadas. La llegada masiva de negros y moros la ha dejado simplificada y vulgar al extremo

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 18 14:48:37 2019 No.13660521 >>13660371 Coincido. La banalización del castellano ha renderizado un placer oculto en aquella más-allá-de-vácua apreciación de la lengua. Nuestros tiempos no cambiarán, pero los efectos sobre el medio-individual en el que se materializan sí.

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 18 14:53:29 2019 No.13660556 Good thread. Someone make a new one to keep it going. t. phonefag

>>	Anonymous Sun Aug 18 15:25:08 2019 No.13660776 >>13660521 Pareces un gringo intentando chapurrear español. SI de verdad es tu lengua nativa, deberías darle un par de repasos.

Advanced search
Text to find
Subject [?]Search by post subject. Leave empty for any.
Username [?]Search for user name. Leave empty for any user name.
Tripcode [?]Search for tripcode. Leave empty for any.
Email [?]Search by email. Leave empty for any.
Filename [?]Search by image filename. Leave empty for any.
From Date [?]Enter what date to start searching from. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
To Date [?]Enter what date to start searching until. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
Image hash
Search in	All Posts OPs Only
Deleted posts	Show all posts Show only deleted posts Only show non-deleted posts
Internal posts	Show all posts Show only internal posts Show only archived posts
Order	New posts first Old posts first
Capcode	All Posts Only by Users Only by Mods Only by Admins Only by Developers
Results	Posts Threads
Action	[ Simple ]

/lit/ - Literature