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13603721 No.13603721 [Reply] [Original]

Let's talk about words with surprising origins.

>> No.13603902

"Bear" is kind of interesting. The PIE word for this creature was something like Ursus (or however you decline it) but the speakers were so superstitious that they thought saying it's name would summon one to their position, so they just called it the brown one. Thousands of years later and people completely forgot that "bear" was just a euphemism and that is why Brown Bear is a redundant phrase

>> No.13604066

Ersatz has an interesting history.

>> No.13604083

The etymology for the word "nice" is impressively circuitous.

From etymonline:

> late 13c., "foolish, ignorant, frivolous, senseless," from Old French nice (12c.) "careless, clumsy; weak; poor, needy; simple, stupid, silly, foolish," from Latin nescius "ignorant, unaware," literally "not-knowing," from ne- "not" (from PIE root *ne- "not") + stem of scire "to know" (see science). "The sense development has been extraordinary, even for an adj." [Weekley] -- from "timid, faint-hearted" (pre-1300); to "fussy, fastidious" (late 14c.); to "dainty, delicate" (c. 1400); to "precise, careful" (1500s, preserved in such terms as a nice distinction and nice and early); to "agreeable, delightful" (1769); to "kind, thoughtful" (1830).

>> No.13604104

>>13603902
the word was *h2ertk'os in PIE k' being a palatalized k.
some indo european languages like latin, and persian still preserve the original form, regardless of taboo (see ursus, khers) but you are indeed correct that taboo is in effect in many IE languages, russian too, bear = medved'

>> No.13604238

>>13603721
Paradise comes from the Avestan word "pairi-daêza", which roughly means "walled garden". It was most likely used by Zoroastrians a lot.

>> No.13604257

I remember hearing that donde (where) in Spanish comes from some hilariously redundant process where every time the words for "from where" collapsed into one word from frequent usage, the word would come to mean just "where?," so people would add another "from," so that it essentially meant "from from-where," and then it would happen again, so that still today in Spanish you say "de donde?"

>> No.13604425

>>13603902
Germanic kennings are also pretty cool.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenning

>> No.13604441

Every use of the word 'check', from 'check it out' to 'send me the check', comes from Persian 'Shah' (King)

'Govern' and 'Cyber' are direct cognates, one simply came through Latin and one through Greek, from an original term meaning 'to steer'

'Sanguine' and 'iron' are direct cognates, from the PIE word for blood, heshr

English 'free' is cognate with Latin 'provincia'

>> No.13604443

>>13603721
How does one into etymology? Would learning Latin and Greek root words be a good start?

>> No.13604457

>>13604443
Wiktionary

>> No.13605270

aujourd'hui = french "today"
>Etymology
>au + jour + de + hui, literally “on the day of today”; since hui comes from Latin hodie, the phrase literally means "on the day of this day".

>> No.13605296 [DELETED] 

I cannot see today anywhere

>> No.13605309

>>13603721
no one knows the etymology of 'shark'

>> No.13605314

religion is formed from rem legere: "to choose the very thing" which tells us religion is the exact art of propitiating the external powers

>> No.13605325

>>13603721
There is so much ass in King James

>> No.13605326

>>13603902
Same thing in finnish, a bear is "karhu" but was always called "otso" or "mesikämmen" (literally "nectar hand" which would also make it a kenning I think) because "karhu" was his real name that should not be said. Same for foxes etc.

>> No.13605330

>>13605270
lot's of french phrases are like that. qu'est-ce que c'est ('what's that?') literally means 'what is it that it is?'

>> No.13605335
File: 15 KB, 384x390, almost.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13605335

>>13603721
I've lost interest in etymology when I discovered that "woman" does not come from "womb man".

>> No.13605347

>>13605335
yeah the reality is a little more depressing eh.
it's the ancient word for wife

>> No.13605349

>>13604443
No just learn Latin andGreek for realsies

>> No.13605354

>>13604443
buy an etymology dictionary. mind you, you come across a lot of incorrect etymologies

>> No.13605390

The word "fuck" is actually an abbreviation: Fornicating Under Consent of the King.

>> No.13605400

>>13605335
Yes, it means "woe (to) man"

>> No.13605408

>>13603721
Sex means male or female. It then took on the meaning of sexual intercourse in the middle ages, so people started using the French word gender (gendre) as a gentile way to refer to ones sex. So sex=gender.

>> No.13605412

>>13603721
Taser. Everyone assumes it's related to "laser," but it's a literary acronym ("Tom Swift's Electric Rifle")
https://www.dictionary.com/e/taser/

>> No.13605462

>O.P. (noun): 20th century initialism of 'original poster;' from the French 'postier orginale' (late 18th century). meaning "one who initially tacks a bill upon a town notice board;" from the Latin 'origen posteron' (2nd century AD). literally "one who makes a fence in wild lands" but esp. figuratively "one who takes the innocence of another man via ignoble relations;" synonym of 'homosexual,' 'Sodomite,' 'fag.'

>> No.13605479

Bad.
From Middle English bad, badde (“wicked, evil, depraved”), of uncertain origin. Perhaps a shortening of Old English bæddel (“hermaphrodite”)

So the word we use to describe things we dont like, is the word that the people used when they had given birth to a hermaphrodite.
pretty based if you ask me. Trannies btfo'd forever.

>> No.13605495
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13605495

Robot comes from a Czech word, robota, meaning "forced labor"; the word 'robot' was first used to denote a fictional humanoid in a 1920 play R.U.R. (Rossumovi Univerzální Roboti - Rossum's Universal Robots) by the Czech writer, Karel Čapek but it was Karel's brother Josef Čapek who was the word's true inventor.

>> No.13605505

Trump

Shortening of Jew's-trump, which may be from French jeu-trump, jeu tromp, jeu trompe (a trump, or toy, to play with).

>> No.13605517

>>13604238
And wasn't Eden just that?

>> No.13605576

Söycuck
Originates from an Uzbekistani Taylor Swift stan forum where it’s used as a derogatory term towards someone you disagree with.
The “söy” part is believed to come from a myth that men who drink söy milk have higher estrogen levels than other men. The other part is pretty self-explanatory because if you’re still reading this post then you’re one.

>> No.13605588

>>13603902
But why do Icelandic people call a panda bear "Bambus-Björn"?

>> No.13605595

>>13603721
"Travesty" comes from the same Latin word (transuestire) as "transvestite."

>> No.13605596

>>13605309
"Swimming hark"

>> No.13605598

>>13604257
Reminds me of "Istanbul". To the people living around Constantinople/Konstaniyye, it was simply "The City": τον πολ. After a while, the phrase "εσ τον πολ": (going) into the city, become such a common phrase that it superseded the proper name of the place, add in Turkish pronunciation and general degeneration of language and that phrase simply became "is tan bul", Istanbul

>> No.13605605

I always wondered if there is an interesting relationship between "flesh" and "fish"? They sound so similar

>> No.13605673

>>13605270
>>13605330
dumb frogeaters amirite

>> No.13605711

>>13605495
>forced labor
That's an odd way of saying slave, which is what it means

>> No.13605719

>>13605711
'forced labour' isn't an odd way of saying slave at all

>> No.13605722

Trans is an ancient Sumerian word and means “attention seeking homosexual”

>> No.13605731

>>13605719
It's odd because it uses two words when one fits it perfectly, and is the correct translation besides

>> No.13605740

Just a theory of mine, but in nearly all IE languages I know the words for hear and ear are, as you can see, incredibly similar

>> No.13605770

>>13605731
probably not, since the etymology of 'slave' is slav

>> No.13606107

>>13605770
Based retard butting in mindlessly

>> No.13606120

>>13603721
Looks like it's the same thing in french with cauchemar

>> No.13606125

>>13605270
You're missing the even more ridiculous pleonasm, au jour d'aujourd'hui:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/au_jour_d%27aujourd%27hui
"on the day of on the day of this day"

>> No.13606133

>>13605605
I don't see how they're particularly similar compared to many other word pairs, and even more so I'm baffled why you couldn't simply take five seconds to google it.

>> No.13606139

>>13605390
The word fuck was in English long before most of those words in the fake acronym. King used to start with a C in OE (cyning).

>> No.13606145

>>13605408
judith butler can get fucked

>> No.13607892

Bump

>> No.13608441
File: 199 KB, 756x765, crusher.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13608441

>>13603721
based

>> No.13608776

The Latin word vagina originally referred to the sheath of a sword, which like many other Latin words (caedo, battuo, etc.), highlights the connection between sex and violence in the Roman times.

>> No.13608790
File: 70 KB, 789x1200, 61x0LYmSr3L._AC_SL1500_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13608790

>>13604238
Xenophon's Cyropaedia has good descriptions of the Persian walled gardens.

>> No.13608815

>>13608776
Forgot which spanish author said that there is no such thing as "bad words" but only words used wrong. I think all, or most, of our curse words and foul words are euphemisms, words that originally meant something but now mean sex, fucking, penis, etc

>> No.13608829

>>13605309
Or 'dog'

>> No.13608845

>>13608815
>Forgot which spanish author said that there is no such thing as "bad words" but only words used wrong.
frowns in wittgenstein

>> No.13608864

>>13608815
>but only words used wrong.
*wrongly

>> No.13608940

>>13608815
likewise, there's no actual word for a 'toilet' in english. the word toilet comes from the french expression for washing yourself

>> No.13608947

The other day I read about St Martin de Tours, who was a Roman soldier before (and after) getting baptized as a Christian. His most famous miracle was when he was riding his horse past a beggar, saw that the guy was naked, and cut his own cloak in half to clothe him. When Martin slept that night he saw Jesus in a dream telling his angels "Martin clad me," and when he woke up the cloak was made whole.
After he died and the cloak became a relic, soldiers revered him as a patriotic military saint and carried pieces of it around on the march. The priests that followed the military and took care of the relic were called something like "cape-keeper," capellanus, which became the word chaplain in French. When they set up camp for long periods they built mini-churches to house the relic called "cape-places," which became the word chapel.

>> No.13608979

>>13603721
Horseshit. It wasn't a "crusher", it was a goddamn horse who visited you in your sleep and delivered you bad dreams.

>> No.13608993

>how do you do
>howdy do
>howdy

>> No.13609004

>>13603902
imagine how fucking terrifying bears would have been to people living basically pastorally with their crude weapons, not to even mention how bad hunter gatherers must have had it.

>> No.13609006

>>13608993
Is this why some taciturn characters in western settings just say "How?" and respond with "How"
I noticed this with Blaisedell and Morgan in Warlock, I thought it was a little friend codeword thing but then saw somebody use it the same way when parodying a western injun stereotype

>> No.13609017
File: 151 KB, 1338x470, Screenshot_20190808-213608_Chrome.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13609017

Interestingly enough, one of the Grimm brothers was responsible for helping reconstruct some proto-Indo-European words.

>> No.13609031

>>13609006
I always thought it was just an Indian thing, but only because of the stereotype. There's a racist bit in a Tom and Jerry short where Jerry is disguised as an Indian, which is the same short where Jerry paints himself and his nephew with shoe polish and act like minstrel blacks, "Shortenin' Bread" is playing.

>> No.13609034

>>13609017
So is the Danish invasion the reason we in english say "father"?

>> No.13609272
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13609272

Experience, from the Latin "Experiri" meaning to try.

>> No.13609301

>>13609272
me on the left

>> No.13610020

>>13609272
And essay comes from Montaigne. In French "essayer" is the verb "to try," and Montaigne called his collection of brief thought type things "Les Essaies," something along the lines of "The Attempts" because they were his efforts to explain the world. In english the word essay stuck to his little brief explanatory form.

>> No.13610408

>>13605390
No, it came from Flemish during the sea voyages boom

>> No.13610438

>>13610408
We don't have any word in Flemish resembling "fuck" though

>> No.13610453

>>13605588
It means Bamboo-Bear, because the eat bamboo.

>> No.13610455

>>13610438
"fok"? Sommige mensen zijn absoluut echte fokkers.

>> No.13610457

>>13605588
Because it lives in bamboo and is clumsy like child, duh

>> No.13611323

>>13605412
laser is literally an acronym too, and spelling it lazer makes it incorrect

>> No.13611409

>>13605740
>uch-o
>sł-uch
Damn.

>> No.13611863

>>13605740
There's just GOTTA be some sort of connection between ears and hearing... Wild

>> No.13612244

>>13608979
A female horse?!

>>13610020
"essayer" translates to "ensayar" (to practice, to rehearse) in Spanish and "un essai" translates to "un ensayo". This is to be expected though since French and Spanish are both romance languages and derive their respective words for "essay" from the Latin "exagium".

>> No.13612299

>>13608979
No, it's more like a goblin creature thing. Nothing to do with female horses.

>> No.13612305

>>13603721
The etymology of the word 'sin' is interesting. In Old English and Latin word was associated with guilt and wrongdoing. However, the Biblical term for sin in Greek and Hebrew denote a failure to hit a target. The Greek word meaning sin, hamartia, literally meant missing the mark, especially in spear throwing.

>> No.13612306

>>13603721
>chest pressure
>crusher
chest pressure means fear not literal external pressure

>> No.13612355

>>13604443
>Would learning Latin and Greek root words be a good start?
Yes. In sixth grade, my teacher had us frequently watch a program on PBS that traced etymology exactly like that.

>> No.13612383

>>13605462
saved

>> No.13612476
File: 119 KB, 611x767, Johann.Heinrich.Füssli.Albtraum.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13612476

>>13612299
>more like a goblin creature thing
This fits well with the German equivalent of "Albtraum" or "Alptraum" (depending on dialect); literally "elf dream".
>https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Albtraum

>> No.13612505
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13612505

>>13612476
In German, the words "oak", "acorn", and "squirrel" are all inextricably linked:
>oak = Eiche
>acorn = Eichel
>squirrel = Eichhörnchen

>> No.13613001

Bumping for interest

>> No.13614257

>>13613001
The term "outlandish" was originally ethnocentric, drawing a distinction between what one's own people would do and what outlanders would do.

>> No.13614488

>>13612305
I was interested to see if this was related to the German Sinn (feeling, thought) but they look completely unrelated

>> No.13614729
File: 182 KB, 1670x1320, decimation.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13614729

"Decimation" is one of the most widely misused words in the English language, whereas the meaning of the word is very straight forward and apparent when its elements are considered.

>> No.13614998
File: 11 KB, 308x163, last.words.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13614998

"Whiskey" is literally "the water of life".
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uisce_beatha

>> No.13615252

>>13609017
Related one that blew my mind:
'Zeus Pater' and 'Deus Pater' (sky father, obviously) developed in Greek and Latin respectively from the PIE word for the highest god. Over the centuries, the Greek one was shortened to just Zeus while the Latin one slurred into Jupiter.

>> No.13615299

>>13605412
Tom's
A
Swift's
Electronic
Rifle

>> No.13615370

>>13603721
>nightmare
>"to crush"
What total hack wrote this bullshit? It is obviously related to mare, German "Mär", which still today means a fantastic tale. More common is the diminutive "Märchen", which translates as "fairy tale".

>> No.13615415

One I stumbled across was the word sound in English has many different etymologies depending on the meaning.

That sounds nice. - from Latin sonare
He's of sound mind. - from German gesund
She's sound asleep (same as above)
They sounded the depth before leaving harbour. -from old French sonder
A sound is also a small strait of water. - Old Norse from proto-Germanic for swim

>> No.13615424

>>13615370
False cognate bruh

>> No.13615498

>>13609004
Bears are just a part of life to those of us that live in rural areas in bear country, same as they were to those folks, same as muggers and drunk drivers are to city folk. Most of the time you encounter a bear in the wild it just runs off, once in awhile it will just look at you and go on about its business as if you are not even there, quite rare they attack. Wild boar are far more likely to mess you up, they back down from nothing and attack everything, been treed by those fuckers a few times, wild turkeys are almost as bad but not as dangerous, they will give you some very good cuts if they decide they do not like you. Moose are fucking terrifying, they can kill you with no effort, shat myself a little the one time I came face to face with a moose, few feet away, looking me right in the eye, he snorts, I shit, he walks off, probably laughing his ass off. Lone wolves are pretty freaky, they will definitely check you out and even stalk you abit, but wolf attacks are exceedingly rare. Mountain lions are almost as bad, but they like the chase and generally ignore people except for joggers and bikers, they also do not seem to like the taste of people, loose interest after their teeth sink in.

>> No.13615537

>>13615498
what about feral hogs

>> No.13615566

>>13608940
Water closet?

>> No.13615570

>>13615537
Vague memory that there was some feral hog meme and suspect that is what you are getting at. Wild boar are feral pigs, the vast majority of feral domestic pigs are hybrid descendants of wild boars and domestic pigs, just as nasty as wild boars. Never encountered a domestic pig gone feral, no idea what they are like.

>> No.13615585
File: 66 KB, 943x716, dd67e6af.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13615585

"Nightmare" shares that similar idea in Finnish, too. The Finnish word is "painajainen" which basically means "a creature that is pressing you down". Both are related to the sensation of heightened gravity during sleep paralysis, as that feeling is pressing you down like a goblin sitting on you would.

>> No.13615612

>>13608940
>there's no actual word for toilet in English
except there is- toilet

>> No.13615640

>>13605326
karhu come from karhea, otso ohto etc, are forms of the original name oksi

>> No.13615652

>nigger literally just means black
I don't know what I expected.

>> No.13615668

>>13604083
"Nice" is still used this way whenever it is applied to a person, it always has an element of being a fool.

>> No.13615680

>>13604441

I don't understand your first one. Besides British spelling would be send me the cheque on the latter. But what does that have to do with Shah?

>> No.13615699

>>13608940

There's an eponym: Crapper.

>> No.13615818 [DELETED] 

>>13603721
The Finnish word for nightmare (painajainen) is also derived from physical pressure (painaa = to press) and has to do with a belief in witches and creatures coming in the night to sit on your chest and fucking you up.

Looks like this belief has been common all over the place and the words for nightmare are linked mythologically even if not linguistically.

>> No.13615823

>>13615680
https://lmgtfy.com/?q=check+etymology

>> No.13615850

>>13615823

Why fucking post in this thread if you can't discuss it or back it up with your own explanation.

Sure, people could just google anything, but sometimes they want to communicate with a person that just said something, especially when it is near-unitelligible.

Passive aggressive little dickhead.

>> No.13615855

>>13615850
yawn, i dont really care if you get it or not. now piss off.

>> No.13615877

>>13604104
medveď in slavic languages literally means "the one who knows where the honey is“

>> No.13615879

>>13615855

I understand now, you copied something from that website etymonline:

>checkmate," from Vulgar Latin *scaccus, from Arabic shah, from Persian shah "king," the principal piece in a chess game

completely misunderstood it, assumed it was talking to the etymology of check in the way you described and then panicked when I ask you about it because it clearly didn't make sense.

Read the entire article next time, dummy.

>> No.13615883

>>13615879
cool, thanks for the update

>> No.13615889

>>13605495
>>13605719
>>13605731
robota in czech just means labor, not forced labor

>> No.13615895

>>13615879
What's actually funny is how much you committed to this and were wrong anyway.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/check#Etymology_1

Every variation including cheque is covered.

KEK

>> No.13615915

>>13605408
Actually the word for gender in french is "genre" and not "gendre". "Gendre" means "son in law".

>> No.13615927

>>13615895

>wrong anyway

I didn't at anypoint say you were wrong, what I'm saying is that you didn't understand the steps from shah to mordern check usage. Which is what I wanted clarification from.

I don't doubt the origin, what I doubt is that you knew what the fuck you were talking about, which the backstory of usage is what etymology is about not just "x comes from y".

You obviously have poor comprehension skills and are possible are ESL. So I won't trouble you any further.

I came into this wanting to know more, it's not my fault you didn't actually know and tried to sidestep, is it?

>> No.13615929

>>13615927
write another essay dude, i'll definitely read it this time.

>> No.13616400

>>13609004
You're not wrong, but do remember we drove bears to extinction with just spears and dogs.

>> No.13616618

>>13615668
That's only if you say something like "nice guy's finish last."

>> No.13616729

The word for noble in PIE is 'atlos'.

>> No.13617286

>>13615612
Water closet, latrine, privy, shitter, crapper; the list is extensive.

>> No.13617346

>>13611863
And between eyes and seeing...oh wait

>> No.13617414

>>13615915
He's talking about Old French, probably even the Anglonorman dialect. It's the Middleages bro.

>> No.13617428

>>13612306
Yeah it's a dumb little bit. It just means sleep paralysis and would've been associated with some otherworldly being coming in your waking sleep.

>> No.13617440

>>13614729
>the way an the etymological origin of a word was used, several languages and thousands years deep, means you're using it wrong
ok retard

>> No.13617475

>>13605605
Because most of the time when English people were talking to French people about animals, they were at meat markets, most English names for meat are the French names for the animal
>Mutton from mouton (sheep)
>Beef from boeuf (from Latin bos for ox or cattle)
>Venison from venesoun meaning hunted game (from Latin venari, to hunt)

>> No.13617512

>>13615252
Mon Dieu!

>> No.13617998

>>13615699
>>13608940
how bout loo

>> No.13618029

>>13617440
>ok retard
The word has a specific meaning. If the meaning is obfuscated with other meanings then we lose the capability of readily expressing that specific idea. I recently had someone tell me about an incident where the instructor improperly used "decimation" when discussing the result of a battle between the Romans and a German tribe. Given this context, it created confusion with students that actually understand the word.

>> No.13618038

>>13605605
Aber nein, mein Freund; flesh = Fleisch.

>> No.13618170

>>13618029
>If the meaning is obfuscated with other meanings then we lose the capability of readily expressing that specific idea
This is a myth, Semantic Widening has never lowered the expressivity of a language. The meanings of English words have changed so much over the last millennium that OE and modern English aren't even mutually comprehensible, and yet we still express things just as well today.
In your own example, the confusion was caused precisely because people had been fed a defunct definition of that word by other morons like yourself. No different than if someone told them 'career' meant 'trajectory of a falling object' and then they got confused when another person discussed their 'career choices'.

>> No.13618234

"Konnichiha" ("ha" pronounced "wa") literally means something like 'As for this day' and Japanese used to add something after such as 'ikaga desu ka?' which would mean 'As for this day, how are you?' but was eventually shortened to simply konnichiha.

>> No.13618252

>>13618170
Express for me then the meaning of "decimation" using a different word.

>> No.13618276

matrix
>Borrowed from Old French matrice (“pregnant animal”), or from Latin mātrīx (“dam, womb”), from māter (“mother”).

matter
>From Middle English matere, mater, from Anglo-Norman matere, materie, from Old French materie, matiere, from Latin materia (“matter, stuff, material”), derivative of Latin mater (“mother”).

>> No.13618541

>>13608776
In german the words for sheath and for vagina are also the same funnily enough.

>> No.13618553

>>13612505
So is the word for glans penis, which is Eichel

>> No.13618850

>>13615370
It's from Michael Shermer's The Believing Brain.

>>13615585
I researched the Spanish word for it ("pesadilla") and it expresses the same idea. It says that nightmares were believed to be the work of monsters who sat on asleep people's chests and crushed them with their weight ("peso").

>> No.13619891

>>13618553
>glans
itself comes from acorn

>> No.13620575

>>13618252
decanonification

>> No.13620837

>>13605711
did not take long for robots to get sjws

>> No.13620890

>>13617286
Also lavatory

>> No.13621594

>>13604083
you can see from the whole "nice guy" debate how a sliver of condescension is still etymologically baked into the word.

>> No.13621621

>>13617998
>O yes, mon loup. How much cost? Waterloo. water closet

>> No.13621637

>>13605462
>missed "posterior" joke
sigh.

>> No.13622330

>>13620890
I purposefully omitted that option because I felt it to be more general to the room than to the device itself, though some of my choices may suffer that defect themselves. I would also include "outhouse" if we were to open the envelope a bit; plus, I omitted "john" in my initial list that I think applies well to the device.

>> No.13622722

>>13603721
Science and Schizo have the same root
-cut, split, divide, (name, recognize, know)

>> No.13622877

>>13615498
Nature sucks. Everyone who listens to Ted K is going to get mauled

>> No.13623081

>>13612476
Also referred to as "alpdruck", similar to the crushing in OP

>> No.13624236

>>13605462
If you're a pasta cook remember to remove the e
>postier orginal