/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.13599538]

Watch me destroy Christianity in one small paragraph:

Do small unbaptized babies go to heaven? A simple yes/no question, with two fatal consequences:

If yes, each parent should kill their children immediately since going to heaven is literally the only singular thing a good Christian strives to achieve. You may go to hell yourself, but what is more selfish: the possibility of you going to heaven but your child going to hell, or even both of you going to hell, or the guarantee of you your children going to heaven for the small price of your own soul?

If no, the consequences are also fairly clear: God is not all-loving since he lets literal fucking innocent babies go to hell simply because they haven't been baptised

[Anonymous No.13599565]

>>13599538
The answer is Yahweh eats their foreskins and this is how they go to Heaven but crying is sin so the first time they cry they earn a fast track to hell

[Anonymous No.13599592]

>>13599538
This is really what a good Christian would do: kill the child, sending them to heaven. Then repent for the action afterwards to save yourself.

[Anonymous No.13599597]

>>13599592
Oh right, I even forgot about that, you can literally repent for murder lmao. Fucking win win

[Sage No.13599692]

>>13599597
No you can't.

[Anonymous No.13599750]

>>13599592
>>13599597
>implying you can plan out repentance in advance

[Anonymous No.13599757]

>>13599750
You're right, but I can repent for planning after the fact

[Anonymous No.13599766]

>>13599538
It's like you've never read the Ten Commandments. Here's a hint: start at the first one, and that one will tell you what God thinks about you murdering your infant.

(Also, consider that there is a state of being in which one is neither in Heaven nor Hell. Purgatory exists).

[Anonymous No.13599781]

Wtf I’m atheist now

[Anonymous No.13599782]

>>13599757
Can you genuinely repent for planning as the final part of the plan? As in, repenting for the sin while committing it?

[Anonymous No.13599786]

Christians dont know who goes to heaven or hell. Besides you're forgetting about original sin

[Anonymous No.13599791]

>>13599782
Idk. Probably not. Sucks being smart and planning lmao

[Anonymous No.13599793]

>>13599766
>Babies go to purgatory
Lmao purgatory is a whole another level of retardation invented by Catholics. It's just heaven with a few extra steps
>Muh commandments
What the fuck are you talking about? The first commandment is about believing in one god, and one for only. I think you mean don't murder? Literally every Christian denomination let's you repent for deadly sins (which aren't even those in the ten commandments, or else everyone would rot in hell for envy or not respecting the sabbath)
>>13599750
If you can't there would be some unrepentable sins

[Anonymous No.13599804]

Babies go to limbo.

[Anonymous No.13599805]

>>13599538
The argument could be even expanded to all human beings who are innocent or unbaptised, but the 10 commandments has the "thou shall not kill" rule, which clearly states that one ought not do such thing, meaning it's prohibited. Also, who is to go to heaven or hell is no matter for man decide or to intervene, unless God is to say otherwise (think of Abraham and Isaac, also note that God intervened a second time here and prevented Isaac's death).

[Anonymous No.13599817]

>>13599793
Go to bed, Pascal. Divine judgement doesn't work the way you think it does.

[Anonymous No.13599823]

>>13599793
Have you considered that our life on earth is a form of Purgatory?

[Anonymous No.13599827]

>>13599805
for man to decide* , to correct myself.

[Anonymous No.13599835]

>>13599804
That's not heaven buddy, that's means some humans are just not born with equal opportunities and don't even get the chance to go to heaven
Sounds like an all loving God to me lmao
>>13599805
It doesn't matter whether you intervene, since it's a simple argument of duality. Either the baby goes to heaven, or it doesn't. If God doesn't send the baby to heaven, he's not all loving, if he does, you can and should force the decision yourself since it's the best thing you can do for your child

[Anonymous No.13599844]

>>13599782
To repent via Confession you have to actually be sorry for what you did.

[Anonymous No.13599845]

>>13599835
>If God doesn't send the baby to heaven, he's not all loving
Tough love is a real thing, trollanon. Sometimes you need to inflict pain to make a person's life better.

[Anonymous No.13599851]

>>13599845
Are you literally retarded?
A baby is a separate soul that's Innocent by definition, apart from the original sin. If it doesn't go to heaven if you murder it, which happens sometimes so it's not even a hypothetical situation, God literally never gave this soul a chance. That's not trough love, that's literally no love at all lmao

[Anonymous No.13599858]

[Anonymous No.13599862]

>>13599844
>I'm sorry I sent my children to heaven God, I know they should've had the possibility of rotting in hell instead

[Anonymous No.13599869]

daily reminder that god only cares about intent and meaning. the rest is just necessary pragmatics

[Anonymous No.13599880]

Babies who aren't baptized and die don't go to hell or heaven. If you read the bible you would know this

[Anonymous No.13599890]

>>13599862
You shouldn't assume that unbaptized infants go straight to heaven after they are murdered. Everyone is born with original sin.
>>13599851
Why are you so quick to dismiss the concept of Purgatory? That is where the souls of unbaptized infants go.

[Anonymous No.13599891]

>>13599880
So what you're saying some souls that are born don't get the chance to go to heaven
>And here's why that's a good thing

[Anonymous No.13599896]

>>13599538
>the christian god burns babies
>just because their parents didnt wash them

[Anonymous No.13599900]

>>13599890
how is purgatory in comparison to our world?

[Anonymous No.13599901]

>>13599890
Once again, purgatory is literally heaven with extra steps. "You'll go to heaven don't worry, but you'll have to get some cleansing for your son's first"
At least argue with limbo like decent catholicucks, not even they believe babies go to purgatory

[Anonymous No.13599911]

>>13599835
You did not engage with the argument anon.

> It doesn't matter whether you intervene
> if he does, you can and should force the decision yourself since it's the best thing you can do for your child
- It DOES matter whether or not you intervene against God's will. You ought not do such, thing since or decide a baby's fate since God prohibits it with the "thou shall not kill" rule in the 10 commandments. And the judgement on how and who is going to heaven or hell is not for man to decide.

> Either the baby goes to heaven, or it doesn't.
-This is not for man to decide or to know.

> If God doesn't send the baby to heaven, he's not all loving...
-This is like saying: "God does not exist, and he/she/it is evil".

At least make a stronger case for your argument, along the lines of Marcus Aurelius: "“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”

[Anonymous No.13599913]

Watch me destroy Buddhism in one small sentence:
>It's literally just nihilism
Watch me destroy Islam in one small sentence:
>Mohammed was a pedophile and a warmonger
Watch me destroy Judaism in one small sentence:
>They killed Jesus for no reason. They deserve everything they get.
Watch me destroy Hinduism in one small sentence:
>Dude guys with weird skin colors and multiple arms lmao

[Anonymous No.13599930]

>>13599911
You ought not do such thing, as to decide a baby's fate, since God prohibits it...* to correct myself again.

[Anonymous No.13599931]

>>13599538
The Catholic Church teaches they do not go to heaven directly, but that there is a hope that the Lord will receive them.

[Anonymous No.13599935]

>>13599911
Are christcucks deliberately pretending to be retarded or are they really in such a low state of mind that they can't even comprehend the simple dilemma of binary choices
>B-but it's not for you to decide!!
It's for God to decide, and I laid out both choices he can make and the consequences resulting out of them

[Anonymous No.13599943]

>>13599931
What a cop out lmao
>We can't say they go to heaven but they probably will so you can't doubt us hehe

[Anonymous No.13599944]

>>13599891
It's all just theories ever since the Greeks on where these children go. It's out of our hands and up to God.

[Anonymous No.13599947]

>>13599935
God is infinite, and you are trying to force Him into a binary choice. That's not how it works.

[Anonymous No.13599957]

>>13599592

>committing the sin of presumption

[Anonymous No.13599963]

>>13599538

>one small paragraph
>it’s actually three paragraphs

Is this a hidden joke about the Trinity?

[Anonymous No.13599968]

>>13599947
>I'll just say he can make up a third choice lol out of making the soul go to heaven or not lol
Learn to argue

[Anonymous No.13599978]

>>13599935
Lol, I'm not even a true christcuck anon but your arguments are purposefully or accidentally flawed. But sure, go an make ad hominem's, that will surely do it.
> I laid out both choices he...
That's not how it works anon, IF you accept the existence of God, then you can't lay out the choices for God and say to him/her/it: "Now act! I'm gonna judge you whether or not you are good and evil and deserve my worship"

[Anonymous No.13599996]

>>13599978
It's not an argument against the existence of God, merely against either the retardation of christcucks or his supposed "all-lovingness" depending on one of the two variants

[Anonymous No.13600003]

>>13599835
>equal opportunities
gaytheist cringelord

[Anonymous No.13600012]

>>13600003
>Literally one of the supposed pillars of Christianity
>Calls others gaytheists
It's "equal opportunities" for salvation retard.

[Anonymous No.13600013]

>>13599978
Just theorizing here but If God is all knowing, when a child dies before being baptized, couldn't God see the childs soul grow up and see the actions he would of done? Or better yet, could God could create a separate reality for these children where there souls are transferred to survive their incoming death for a chance of repentance?

[Anonymous No.13600034]

>>13600012
>>Literally one of the supposed pillars of Christianity
according to whom? matter of fact is that everyone is born with the original sin and may only be saved through jesus christ, that's not a choice god makes, that's a choice we make
>>13600013
literally go back to /a/ you dumbfuck

[Anonymous No.13600046]

>>13600013
Now we're talking
At least a better argument/theory than the other retards here

However we would just end up in the free will vs. All-knowing discussion again

[Anonymous No.13600050]

>reducing God to some beurocrat
>Reducing heavan to a palace in the sky
Noone will ever take you seriously with retarded suppositions like that.

[Anonymous No.13600053]

>>13600034
>matter of fact is that everyone is born with the original sin and may only be saved through jesus christ, that's not a choice god makes, that's a choice we make
That's exactly what "equal opportunities" Jesus
Also how can you make choices as an infant, that's whom we're discussing here

[Anonymous No.13600061]

Christianity is evil convuluted shit.
Any good person would wish with all their heart that it is not true, for if Christianity isn't real, the vast majority of humans are going to be in immense pain for eternity.

However most Christians love this, they pat themselves on the back, and smugly look down at all those who don't follow their personal views, happy in the fact that those who disagree with them are going to be punished for it, and suffer forever and ever.

It's like the ultimate beta fantasy. Christians are horrid, nasty, arrogant people. Their autistic, vindictive God reflects that.

[Anonymous No.13600064]

>>13600050
>I hate being wrong so I'll just reject logical arguments and to for the "you can't understand God so he's never wrong" route

[Anonymous No.13600071]

>>13600053
shouldve had your parents baptize you lmao
>>13600064
>why can't my gay materialism explain deeply felt genuine spirituality
jeez dude idk lmao
>>13600061
muh viking

[Anonymous No.13600088]

>>13600071
I'm not a viking. I think the vikings were largely nasty fucks too.

[Anonymous No.13600126]

>>13599538
Fucking based, this also can be used on pro-life fags as well

Christcucks should actually FAVOR abortion, because the so-called "soul" of every single aborted fetus will instantly go to heaven since it had no chance of sinning.

More abortions = more of god's children joining him in heaven

[Anonymous No.13600143]

>>13600126
Yahweh demands worship and human suffering
He'd eventually have an autistic meltdown when he finds out people have found a loophole against his unfair heaven/hell game

[Anonymous No.13600153]

>>13599538
>God is not all-loving
You're clearly unfamiliar with the concept of the Original Sin, which is effectively that all humans are born into sin and must be raised up out of that sin. In this belief system, such has been the history of Christianity for centuries, babies literally are damnable to hell. This still remains established Christian dogma in some denominations.

[Anonymous No.13600158]

>>13600061
You're not even mentioning the worst part: they don't fucking practice what they preach. Christianity actually boosts their narcissism and empowers them to ignore morality entirely by convincing themselves whatever they do is "God's will."

Think of all the wars, genocides, colonial atrocities, and other crimes against humanity perpetuated by Christians.
>inb4 whataboutthemooslimsjewsetc

[Raul No.13600163]

#20190807 4 Books for a Better Understanding of the Border - The New York Times
http://tridejur.uy/t123.php?id=2290550&alta=2019-08-07%2006:00:01

[Anonymous No.13600167]

>>13600153
>effectively that all humans are born into sin and must be raised up out of that sin. In this belief system, such has been the history of Christianity for centuries, babies literally are damnable to hell
>Babies are damnable to hell
>B-but God is still all-loving g-guise
Kek
Either way you look at it it sounds retarded

[Anonymous No.13600169]

>>13599538
>3 paragraphs.
>Innocent babies.
I'm not even Christian but you suck at this.

[Anonymous No.13600170]

>>13600153
Sounds extremely cucked. Why someone would willingly submit themselves to such an ideology is beyond me.

[Anonymous No.13600172]

>>13599786
>>13599851
>>13600153
Original sin is just another dandelion in a field of catholic sadist nonsense. Christianity is stupid, but catholicism is straight up RETARDED

[Anonymous No.13600173]

>>13599538
>>13599592
Why not just be good and raise good kids?

[Anonymous No.13600174]

>>13600153
This. God doesn't even save the babies. He's still extremely butthurt about some thot eating an apple, so he takes his rage out on every other human since, for some reason.

>>13600158
Even if a Christian raped a kid, they could just repent and confess. When you're a part of their special club, you're free to do what you like.
But don't you dare be a member of another club, like Islam. That's not allowed!

[Anonymous No.13600198]

>>13600172
Catholics even take pride in that
They love how edgy and sadist it is
>heh, you expected it to be all lovey dovey?...nufffin personal...but my faith is grimdark and epic hardcore...enjoy suffering forever hehe..god bless

[Anonymous No.13600199]

>>13599538
If you have a child you will be allowed into heaven as blessing a being by dragging it from the void into the warm embrace of a womb is the most generous act you can engage in, nothing in life compares
>tl;dr we can all make it christian bros, just have sex

[Anonymous No.13600203]

>>13600173
Because by killing the child you would eliminate any possibility of him going to hell, which is way better parenting in terms of the final goal I.e. being closer to god

[Anonymous No.13600232]

>>13599538
>>13599592
No, because murder is a grave sin. God is who decides who goes to heaven and hell, not you. There’s no such thing as a “Heaven sender” person, you’re just a child killer
>but it’s selfless, you’re going to hell to send them to Heaven!
No, you’re a child killer. God is the one who sends the child to Heaven, you’re just a child killer burning in hell. Why would anybody want to be that? What is the appeal of spending your limited lifetime killing children then burning in hell? It’s not even a paradox, it’s just retarded

[Anonymous No.13600238]

>>13599538
They go to Little Baby Heaven, which is like normal heaven but not as good because it's full of babies

[Anonymous No.13600239]

>>13600232
>God will send them to heaven since you killed an innocent child
>But somehow you're not sending the child indirectly so you're still wrong
Lol

[Anonymous No.13600245]

>>13600167
>God is still all-loving g-guise
God, throughout Christian history, has largely not been viewed as the savior of the human race. It has been the teachings of Jesus which gave the people guidance in historically Christian societies. Similarly, Mary, the virgin mother of Jesus, was, throughout history, viewed as the all loving savior of man. You will often see a disproportionate amount of Mary symbolism and depictions in Renaissance art, sometimes even superseding Jesus in importance, because it was at this time that the Christian people did not pray to God, or even to Jesus, but to Mary for salvation. This has largely fallen to the wayside in the growth of modern Christianity, and God has gained the image of benevolence by some denominations. God, historically, has been an object of unwordly omnipotence and insights, and Mary had been the one to help guide mankind to salvation through her benevolence.
>>13600170
Many do not willingly submit themselves to religion. The number of people indoctrinated into religion vastly outnumbers those who willingly choose a religion in adult life. It is much harder to break from a framework of thought that you were raised in than to choose never to enter it as an adult. I do not mean to say all religious people are victims to their ideology, but it is true that virtually all of them were indoctrinated at birth. Whether or not this is viewed for the better or worse is moreso subjective.

[Anonymous No.13600274]

>>13600198
kek, very true. Catholocism is idolized by people on here because they think it's like their fantasy novels and they want to LARP in it

[Anonymous No.13600291]

>>13600203
Christies cannot stop being BTFOd ITT, I love it

[Anonymous No.13600294]

>>13599538
>requires faith
>argument

Christianity is against logic and arguments. You must believe because faith>reason

[Anonymous No.13600302]

>>13600294
You need blind faith to be a true believer? Sounds just like your average cult!

[Anonymous No.13600306]

>>13599963
>>one small paragraph
>>it’s actually three paragraphs
>Is this a hidden joke about the Trinity?
holy

[Anonymous No.13600318]

>>13599538
>if yes kill yourself thread
I hate christian but fedoras are the worst

[Anonymous No.13600322]

>>13600239
If I push somebody out a window, and somebody else calls them an ambulance, I didn’t send them to the hospital. The guy who called the ambulance did, I just tried to kill them. Hell, if you’re gonna apply this logic that murderers are actually Heaven senders working in an indirect way, you could just keep going. A baby goes to Heaven, who did that? Was it God? No, it was actually the babies murderer. But the babies murderer didn’t do the good deed, it was actually the man who molested the murderer when they were younger, traumatizing them and turning them into a child murderer when they grew up. But the molester didn’t do the good deed either, no, the real hero of the story is the girlfriend who cheated on the molester, giving him weird sexual hang ups. But she’s not the hero either, she wouldn’t be an unfaithful person if her dad hadn’t left her as a child. Is her dad the hero, who sent the baby to Heaven? No, the hero is the money-lender who practiced usury, putting the girls father into incredible debt and making him decide to up and leave his life.
Do you see where I’m going with this? If you decide that child murderers are Heaven senders by indirect action, you start a cause and effect chain, leading you to conclude that the cause of salvation is the first person to sin
Or you can just say God sends people to heaven or Hell, and if you kill a child you’re just a child killer and nothing else

[Anonymous No.13600358]

>>13599692
Every murderer is in hell? Are you sure?

[Anonymous No.13600359]

>>13600245
>God, throughout Christian history, has largely not been viewed as the savior of the human race. It has been the teachings of Jesus which gave the people guidance in historically Christian societies.
Jesus is God
>Similarly, Mary, the virgin mother of Jesus
The theotokos: Mother if God
>was, throughout history, viewed as the all loving savior of man. You will often see a disproportionate amount of Mary symbolism and depictions in Renaissance art, sometimes even superseding Jesus in importance, because it was at this time that the Christian people did not pray to God, or even to Jesus, but to Mary for salvation.
Source: ass. Read the New Testament, then the church fathers, then medieval Christian literature, then enlightenment Christian thinkers, then modern Christian thinkers. Even a quick perusal or a glance at the summaries will tell you Jesus has historically been viewed as God and savior, and Mary the theotokos
>This has largely fallen to the wayside in the growth of modern Christianity, and God has gained the image of benevolence by some denominations. God, historically, has been an object of unwordly omnipotence and insights, and Mary had been the one to help guide mankind to salvation through her benevolence.
Read the Quran, why does it say Christians err in thinking Jesus is God? It is because Christians have historically had about the same Christological views

[Anonymous No.13600365]

>>13600318
Surprised it took this long for a butthirt christfag to say this

[Anonymous No.13600383]

Imagine actually being a worshiper of an uppity jew who failed to overthrow the Roman government and doing all the mental gymnastics to prove a jewish god only SOMETIMES tortures innocent people for all eternity

[Anonymous No.13600394]

>>13600359
>Jesus is God
News to me. I'm only recounting historic knowledge.
>Source: ass
Read Renaissance art history and analyses books. Of course you would never assume this from the Bible. Most people hadn't even read the Bible at this time, you fool. I did not make this post to debate your shitty religious fan fiction, I'm stating historical facts.

[a_poor_sinner !!eiHxl4pZe1i No.13600396]

>>13599538
>If yes, each parent should kill their children immediately
Thou shalt not kill.

>If no, the consequences are also fairly clear: God is not all-loving
The will of God is unknowable. Bad things happen to good people, and the final cause of these events -- called Providence -- is likewise unknowable.

In short, the only thing you have proven is you don't know jack shit about Christianity or philosophy. Not surprising since you're a cringey fedora.

>Do small unbaptized babies go to heaven?
And the actual answer from the catechism is we don't know but assume yes. Similar to how we don't know for a fact that hell is full of unrepentant, but it may very well be that God's infinite mercy has left it empty (but you should not depend on it).
the relevant paragraph
>1283 With respect to children who have died without Baptism, the liturgy of the Church invites us to trust in God's mercy and to pray for their salvation.

[Anonymous No.13600402]

>>13600322
Still begs the question, does the baby go to heaven or hell. Not about the murder, the baby going to heaven or not.

[Anonymous No.13600425]

>>13600396
>pray for their salvation
That means there is a possibility that small innocent babies will go to hell
How can you unironically defend that lmao

[Anonymous No.13600481]

>>13600245
This is very interesting anon, what books or works would you recommend for this? (I'm interested in the subject matter but do not study history or the history of religion)

[a_poor_sinner !!eiHxl4pZe1i No.13600485]

>>13600425
>That means there is a possibility that small innocent babies will go to hell
No. They didn't have an opportunity to commit any sins yet and therefore do not require purgation. Original sin is not enough. I don't know, but I believe. The harrowing of hell was accomplished for the sake of heathen souls who never had the opportunity to hear the gospel. You know which souls weren't there? The ones that lived moral lives according to an absolute morality, and those who if they had known what baptism was would have desired it. I believe infants are in the latter category.

and
>he thinks prayer is a burden
git gud cringelord

[Anonymous No.13600502]

>>13600383
I love how saying “God doesn’t torture innocent people” is mental gymnastics but saying “people who kill children are actually heaven-senders” is not
Here’s a hypothetical, if I murder somebody who’s evil, I’m sending them to hell, right? According to you, murderers are just sending the innocent to heaven and the guilty to hell, right? So the conclusion to draw from all this is “murder is moral,” right?
But wait, what makes a person a sinner vs a saint? Guilty vs innocent? In a Christian moral framework, it’s following the laws of God. One of those laws is “thou shalt not kill.” So we’re back where we started. Murder is still wrong and God is still the divine judge. That’s why I say this isn’t even a paradox, it’s just stupid. Do you really think if you asked Saint Jerome or anyone this question they’d just go “oh no! My whole life is a lie! There is no answer to this!”? This can be refuted by restating the most basic Christian principles: God is judge, not you

[Anonymous No.13600529]

>>13600394
Buddy, every Christian thinker has stated this since time immemorial. Start in the New Testament, then the church fathers, then medieval thinkers, then enlightenment thinkers. They all state that Jesus is God and Mary is mother of God
>b-but those are just scholars, m-most people wouldn’t have read them
Ah, but there were still religious wars and trials for heresy. Find a time where the people worshipped Mary instead of Jesus God
>b-but look at all the statues and paintings of Mary
Not an argument. Just cause you make statues and paintings of someone or something doesn’t mean you worship them. You are an utter brainlet
>>13600481
Pay him no mind, he’s talking out his ass

[Anonymous No.13600557]

>>13600485
>believe infants are in the latter category.
So they go to hell after all?
>>13600502
>sending them to hell, right
Yes, you are since you're ending their life abruptly without possibility of atonement. How hard is that to understand and why are you all pretending to be retarded?

[a_poor_sinner !!eiHxl4pZe1i No.13600564]

>>13600359
>>13600529
This anon knows what's up. Christians do not worship Mary; the only being deserving of worship is God. We venerate Mary, and ask for her intercession. She is a saint. In the same way that Jesus said the only way to know the Father is through him, one of the best ways to know Jesus is through Mary, because she is rather like us. Mortal, chosen, blessed but mournful of his passion (associated w/ our sins) and taking solace in the glory of Christ and his victory over death and the world.

[Anonymous No.13600566]

>>13600557
Heaven* not hell. Which in turn means we should kill them

[Anonymous No.13600569]

>>13600557
God is judge, not you. You’re not sending them to heaven or hell, God is. You’re just a murderer
If I push someone out a window, and somebody else calls them an ambulance, who takes credit for getting them to the hospital?

[Anonymous No.13600573]

>>13600569
>God is judge, not you
If they haven't been baptized they literally can't go to heaven so how exactly can good decide differently according to everything you've been taught, christcuck?

[Anonymous No.13600584]

>>13600573
>it’s an easy decision, therefore I’m the one making it and not God
You are an idiot. Even if the baby is unbaptized, it is God who decides their fate. Even if a person lived a totally sinless life, it is God who decides their fate. God is judge, not you

[a_poor_sinner !!eiHxl4pZe1i No.13600586]

>>13600557
You aren't reading and thinking carefully enough, or don't know the subject well enough.

>So they go to hell after all?
Latter means last. Infants -- if they knew what baptism was, and being unable to commit sin because of their ignorance of worldly things -- would have desired it. Therefore they do not go to hell, which is for the unrepentant. Purgatory is for the expiation of sin. As we have established, infants probably aren't smart enough to sin. Therefore they probably don't go to purgatory either.

Like I said. I don't know, but I believe.

[Anonymous No.13600610]

I have a genuine question: could god have maintained our freedom while not allowing for the existence of sin?

[Anonymous No.13600618]

>>13600529
not him but
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Catholic_Mariology
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veneration_of_Mary_in_the_Catholic_Church
i thought it was well known catholics prayed to mary during and before the renaissance

[Anonymous No.13600621]

>>13600610
He could since he can do anything. However God is a vindictive asshole even according to the goodest of scriptures so have fun suffering

[Anonymous No.13600639]

The answer to the question of whether or not unbaptized babies go to heaven isn't yes or no. In life we're normally given the chance to accept God and his revelation or reject it. People who aren't given this opportunity either because they die before they reach the age of reason or never get the opportunity to learn of the Church or be baptized, will after death be able to make their decision to accept God or reject him just as the angels did, with full knowledge of the what that choice entails.

[Anonymous No.13600655]

>>13600621
He can do anything that's possible. The existence of free will is not compatible with a lack of consequences.

[Anonymous No.13600667]

>>13600655
>The existence of free will is not compatible with a lack of consequences.
I should say free will is not compatible with an inability to choose.

[Anonymous No.13600675]

>>13600639
>after death be able to make their decision to accept God or reject him just as the angels did, with full knowledge of the what that choice entails
Lol where did you get that from? Some retarder cult?
Catholicucks believe they go to limbo, evangelifags heaven, orthocucks hell (I think?)

[Anonymous No.13600683]

>>13600667
>>13600655
Why not
Just because you'll go to heaven either way doesn't mean you don't have free will

[Anonymous No.13600684]

>>13600655
>>13600667
if free will brought about the fall of man, of what use was it?

[a_poor_sinner !!eiHxl4pZe1i No.13600686]

>>13600675
>Catholicucks believe they go to limbo
No.
>>13600396

[Anonymous No.13600700]

>>13600684
It's necessary for true love. You can't love somebody without the ability to reject them.

[Anonymous No.13600707]

>>13600675
Stop saying cuck so much. That's fucking cringe.

[Anonymous No.13600710]

>>13600686
Lmao
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limbo
Literally doesn't even know about his denomination. Read up faggot

[Anonymous No.13600714]

There's so many misconceptions about actual Christian doctrine in this thread that I'm inclined to think it's all bait.

[Anonymous No.13600718]

>>13600707
Cuck

[Anonymous No.13600721]

>>13600684
God loves us so much that He gave us free will in order that people could love out of their own will, which is the highest thing one can do.

As the Supreme Cause of all that is Good, God made us even though He didn't need us. Think about it.

[a_poor_sinner !!eiHxl4pZe1i No.13600729]

>>13600710
>While the Catholic Church has a defined doctrine on original sin, it has none on the eternal fate of unbaptized infants

stay btfo. I already quoted the relevant piece of the catechism, which would outweigh your wikipedia link even if it didn't agree with me.

[Anonymous No.13600732]

If God doesn't need us why did he make us? Love. Because God is Love.

Few can grasp what Love actually is.

[Anonymous No.13600764]

>>13600700
>>13600721
why not endow everyone with this holy knowledge at birth, so that no one misuses their free will out of ignorance of the gravity of sin? Would anyone choose sin if they knew fully of the alternative?

[Anonymous No.13600777]

>>13600732
All I see from God is angry autism and injustice

I wish I could see God's supposed love

[a_poor_sinner !!eiHxl4pZe1i No.13600786]

>>13600764
Romans 11:32
>For God has consigned all people to disobedience so that he may show mercy to them all.

nb: all people. sin is part and parcel of earthly existence.

[Anonymous No.13600793]

>>13600786
interesting

[Anonymous No.13600805]

>>13600764
no one would sin then and we'd live in a false paradise.
>Would anyone choose sin if they knew fully of the alternative?
That's precisely what the saints figured out.

>>13600777
God created you and I out of nothing. If that isn't Love then what would it be? Note that it was a selfless act of creation, in the sense He didn't make us expecting that we would adore Him in return. True Love.

[Anonymous No.13600835]

>>13600805
>no one would sin then and we'd live in a false paradise.
Imagine being this retarded

[Anonymous No.13600842]

>>13600805
He created me and many others to have to leap through hoops in order to not end up in a hell of his design. Fuck him.

[Anonymous No.13600848]

>>13600573
Can you not comprehend what he's trying to tell you?

[Anonymous No.13600856]

>>13600848
No u
Of course you can always claim God can act however he wants but the point is the person who is being killed is robbed of his freedom of will

[Anonymous No.13600866]

>>13600835
imagine being this uncharitable

are you implying people would sin if they were fully aware of the consequences? Of course not.

[Anonymous No.13600879]

>>13600786
>>13600805
There's one last thing I don't understand. Why not grant Adam and Eve the holy knowledge I spoke of, so that the fall wouldn't happen and they could live forever in Eden, and not in an earthly existence, but in the true paradise? Would this not be the ultimate merciful act?

[Anonymous No.13600909]

>>13599538
Can Atheists Summon a Demon?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssTefUlBSZk

[Anonymous No.13600910]

Can I browse exhentai in heaven? If so, who runs the server? I don't want another Netherlands -episode.

[Anonymous No.13600919]

>>13599538
Yes
>going to heaven is literally the only singular thing a good Christian strives to achieve
False
Open a book desu, preferable The Bible

[Anonymous No.13600937]

>>13600909
You don't have to be a theistcuck to believe in non-physical entities.

[Anonymous No.13600948]

>>13599538
That's not destroying Christianity, that's just proving God is a dick. Also the answer is no. Scripture is pretty unambiguous here.

Romans 5:12-14 King James Version (KJV)
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression

[Anonymous No.13600961]

>>13599538
Purgatory.

[Anonymous No.13600965]

>>13600961
>made up catlick bullshit because feels > reals

ftfy

[Anonymous No.13600971]

Dumb and gay

[Anonymous No.13600998]

>>13600948
The whole basis of Christianity is that God is not a dick an you should obey him because he loves you, so it's very much destroying Christianity

[Anonymous No.13601140]

>>13600998
>the whole basis of Christianity is that God isn't a dick

Yeah, but its not exactly convincing.

>You think God's a dick? Read Job and then say that
>Okay, now I'm thinking he's even more of a dick than I originally thought

[Anonymous No.13601144]

>>13601140
>t. misunderstood Job

[Anonymous No.13601167]

>>13601144
Its not a matter of understanding. Its a matter of cosmic Stockolm Syndrome. I mean, sure its immature to call it a bet between Satan and God but that's about the only unfair characterization there is. God is such a tosser he actually thinks someone's family can be replaced with a different set of people entirely. He angrily rebukes Job just because Job asked for an explanation of what was happening to him and if there was some wrongdoing he wasn't aware of. What a douche.