/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.13597381]

>not reading the Gilgamesh Epic in Akkadian
>not reading the Gilgamesh cycle in Sumerian
>being this pleb

[Anonymous No.13597396]

>>13597381
>not studying and finally deciphering linear b to read dowries and edicts
lmao'ing at ur life

[Anonymous No.13597405]

>not deciphering the harappan script to gain insight into a monumental bronze age culture and to gain a sense of historicity in relation to later hindu religion and literature
ishygddt

[Anonymous No.13597472]

>>13597381
Since I am a brainlet who is not interested in learning multiple languages to read great works, what is the best version of Gilgamesh?

[Anonymous No.13597482]

>>13597472
The one found in the library of Ashurbanipal.

[Anonymous No.13597490]

>>13597482

[Anonymous No.13597641]

Yeah? Well, i can read the bhagavad gita in sanskrit

[Anonymous No.13597666]

>>13597381
>doesn't know any language besides English
>larping as an elitist fag...

[Anonymous No.13598886]

>>13597472
Andrew George probably. I read it in Danish and the author noted that they had used his as support.

[Anonymous No.13599402]

>>13598886
Which Danish version did you read?

[Anonymous No.13599747]

>>13597381
They look very semitic

[Anonymous No.13599760]

>>13597381
post yourself doing it

[Anonymous No.13599969]

>>13599747
they aren't

[Anonymous No.13600018]

i can understand a word or two from akkadian because i speak arabic but not a single word from sumerian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enqPVS4SjYI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drbs4uC2OVU

[Anonymous No.13600442]

>>13599402
New translation by Sophus Helle and Morten Sondergaard

Seems well enough easy to read and gets through the holes fairly elegantly, although it's the only version I've read so I have no reference.

[Anonymous No.13600494]

>>13600442
Ah. I've spoken with Sophus Helle, actually. Soendergaard was apparently the poetic device, and Helle the translator of Akkadian.

[Anonymous No.13601644]

Did anyone here work with huenegard's book on akkadian?

[Anonymous No.13602202]

>>13601644
bump for question

[Anonymous No.13603537]

bump

[Anonymous No.13603579]

>>13599969
What do you mean? The akkadian language is in the Semitic family.

[Anonymous No.13603597]

>>13597381
True, good post OP

[Anonymous No.13603635]

>he didnt finish the cave paintings
>he didnt start with the fractured bone jaw

[Anonymous No.13603668]

bunch a hipsters you are

[Anonymous No.13603824]

>>13603668
have sex

[Anonymous No.13603997]

>>13603668
Why be on /lit/, if you think people who read literature (ancient epics in their original language to be specific) are hipsters? I don't know if that was meant as a joke (I at least hope for it to be so), but I just don't get why you would make a post saying that, except to get either 'You's' or to start the generic string of have sex, cope, etc. Anyway, here you have your 'You'.

[Anonymous No.13604065]

>>13603668
>reading akkadian
>hipster
more like autism

[Anonymous No.13604074]

>>13604065
This kek

[Anonymous No.13604378]

>>13597405
But the IE part is the only good part anyway

[Anonymous No.13604381]

>>13601644
bump

[Anonymous No.13605282]

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[Anonymous No.13605320]

>not having Gilgamesh orally transmitted to you from your father in perfectly preserved form

[Anonymous No.13605540]

>>13605320
>not having it orally transmitted to you in perfectly perserved form, while listening to the sweet tunes of the gish-gu-di

[Anonymous No.13605649]

>>13605540
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUcTsFe1PVs
i saw this too

[Anonymous No.13606252]

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[Anonymous No.13606422]

>>13601644
bump

[Anonymous No.13606449]

>>13597381
>he doesn't write his diary exclusively in cuneiform

[Anonymous No.13606838]

>>13606449
i might

[Anonymous No.13607288]

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[Anonymous No.13607926]

bamp

[Anonymous No.13608026]

>>13603997
Not the guy you're talking to, but I'm pretty sure when he says "hipsters" he means a bunch of pretentious imposters: people who are larping, people who are playing a role just to look cool, educated and elitist while they're neither cool nor educated naturally.
They're simply a bunch of wannabes.
And guess what, I agree with him.

Just be honest: there are 18 posters in this thread so far; how many of them, do you think, are actually able to read even a single sentence in Akkadian or Sumerian?
Trust me: not a single one of them.

[Anonymous No.13608738]

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[Anonymous No.13610169]

>>13597381
No joke, how do I actually learn Akkadian? It's something I’m interested in

[Anonymous No.13610200]

how accurate is the current pronunciation of these langs? is it academically estimated or what

[Anonymous No.13610205]

>>13597381
I read the epic but whats the cycle? Never heard of it, and google only shows books that talk about heroes cycling through time

[Anonymous No.13610362]

>>13603668
dilate you must

[Anonymous No.13610448]

>>13608026
bugs... easy on the burgers

[Anonymous No.13610742]

>>13610200
depends on the historicity of individual words

[Anonymous No.13610930]

>>13600442
I read this too, and found it really good.
Morten Sondergaard’s poems are great as well, his collection Ild og Tal is great (assuming you’re Danish)

[Anonymous No.13611787]

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[Anonymous No.13612605]

bamp

[Anonymous No.13613374]

>>13603579
Sumer isn't though. And the characters are supposedly Sumerian, a people unrelated to the Semites. Although this art is probably Semitic.

[Anonymous No.13613408]

>>13610930
Nah, I just read danish, and can write it a bit too now. I just learned Norwegian to larp as a northman online, and danish is pretty much the same if you want to read it. I wouldn't be able to pronounce any of it though. Though I wish I could to get a a sweet arla producing danish gf.

[Anonymous No.13613538]

>>13597381
the story of atrahasis was better for me , its more clear and focused on the flood and why , gilgamesh has some unclear stuff because of the loss of lines

[Anonymous No.13614227]

>>13613538
how so?

[Anonymous No.13614266]

Does anyone here actually speak akkadian or any otheresopatiam language(i.e. sumerian, or amorite)?

[Anonymous No.13614466]

>>13610200
We know enough to be understood by these people (if we had a time machine), but would likely sound pretty odd.

[Anonymous No.13614658]

>>13601644
I've attempted to get through Huehnergard a few times. It's a good textbook, but I haven't had the motivation to put in the work necessary to master it. It's something I've wanted to do for a long time, but it's lower on the list of priorities.

[Anonymous No.13614740]

>>13610205
bump

[Anonymous No.13615443]

>>13613408
>though I wish I could get a sweet arla producing danish gf
Det gor vi alle

[Anonymous No.13615716]

>>13614658
How long would you yes a lesson takes? Could I finish the book in about 5 weeks?

[Anonymous No.13616203]

>tfw no assyriology gf
why even live?

[Anonymous No.13616360]

>>13608026

[Anonymous No.13616557]

>>13615716
There are 38 lessons, so you could do it if you managed 1 lesson a day. It would definitely be doable if you could spend 4+ hours a day on it

[Anonymous No.13616652]

>>13613408
>I wouldn't be able to pronounce any of it
seems like you're fluent already

[Anonymous No.13617211]

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[Anonymous No.13617913]

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[Anonymous No.13618044]

It's kind of funny that there was a better version of this thread on /x/ >>>/x/23173163

[Anonymous No.13618118]

>>13618044
That thread is great, thanks for the link. I don't often look at /x/ but maybe I will start.

[Anonymous No.13618580]

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[Anonymous No.13619163]

This is basically what James Maffie did

>Be philsophy PHD
>Be interested in relating epistemology to anthropology
>Ends up reaading Leon-Portilla's Aztec Thought and Culture
>Gets so into it he stops studying western Philsophy and learns Nahuatl just so he can read Aztec poetry and other 16th century sources in their original language

http://dailynous.com/2014/05/20/pip-1-huebner-interviews-maffie/

[Anonymous No.13619658]

>>13610205
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgamesh#Sumerian_poems

- Gilgamesh, Enkidu, and the Netherworld and the Sumerian Gilgamesh Cycle by Alhena Gadotti

[Anonymous No.13619770]

>>13619163
The only interesting thing about this is that mankind is able to whine about the same theme monotonously a globe away.

[Anonymous No.13619780]

>>13619770
Nah, Aztec philsophy is legitmately pretty interesting in crazy.

Read the linked interview, it's basically spinzoan metaphysics x supernatural entropy and thermodynamics.

[Anonymous No.13619787]

>>13619780
I did not say it was not interesting, but I did say it is not unique. If anything, it's a bit disheartening to learn that a completely alien human culture more or less reached the same mess of answers the known world did, albeit through different avenues.

I suppose this means individual genius like Shakespeare is not in fact imitable.

[Anonymous No.13619791]

>>13619780
O, guess I did say it was not interesting >:3

[Anonymous No.13619804]

>>13619787
And I'm telling you that that's not really true and Aztec metaphysics is pretty esoteric and unique.

The poem I linked might touch on more universal themes, but the way it intersected with the broader framework of Aztec thought and that framework itself wasn't/isn't as broadly universal to other cultures and socities.

Again, read the interview, or https://www.mexicolore.co.uk/aztecs/home/aztec-philosophy or https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/5495687/#5510689 and the next 3 posts in that reply chain

[Anonymous No.13619807]

>>13619804
This is /lit/ territory my friend, if the poetry isn't good it ain't shit. I don't give a damn about mechazawa-ean metaphysics.

[Anonymous No.13620258]

Has anyone read H. W. F. Saggs's
Babylonians?

[Anonymous No.13621234]

>>13620258
bump

[Anonymous No.13622112]

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[Anonymous No.13622636]

>>13597381
Is that the killing of the killing of the heavenly bull in the OP?

[Anonymous No.13622814]

>>13622636
Is it possible to kill a kill?

[Anonymous No.13623053]

>>13622814
Fuck, meant to say killing of the bull. But is it now?

[Anonymous No.13623539]

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[Anonymous No.13624005]

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[Anonymous No.13624539]

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[Anonymous No.13625531]

.

[Anonymous No.13625824]

Which translation of the Epic of Gilgamesh is better?

Andrew George or Benjamin Foster?

[Anonymous No.13626472]

>>13625824
>reading translations

[Anonymous No.13626505]

>>13626472
Yeah, he shoud've learned akkadian

[Anonymous No.13626507]

>>13626505
ive already subscribed to his patreon

[Anonymous No.13626561]

bump

[Anonymous No.13627505]

Should one learn Accadian or Sumerian?

[Anonymous No.13627765]

>>13627505
Learn the former before the latter.

[Anonymous No.13628378]

>>13627765
y

[Anonymous No.13628510]

>>13628378
It makes it a lot easier, since all our understanding of sumerian comes through loan-words in akkadian(of which we have a pretty good understanding). It would be almost impossible to self-teach yourself sumerian to any degree of fluency anyway for the same reason.

[Anonymous No.13629306]

bump

[Anonymous No.13629754]

>>13628510
this

t. knower

[Anonymous No.13630441]

Have you summoned a Mesopotamian demoness today, /lit/?

[Anonymous No.13630623]

I wish to learn an ancient language, but am not sure where to start.

[Anonymous No.13631536]

>>13630623
Start here >>13601644, then go and learn german so you can learn all the grammer by hard using von soden's "Grundriss der akkadischen Grammatik". There is pretty much no alternative if you want to be "fluent" in akkadian.

[In No.13631584]

>>13630623
If you want to learn akkadian you better learn german as well. All the good material is in it, as is also the best grammer book. Von soden's "Grundriss der akkadischen Grammatik". You could learn the basics with soemthing like huenegard's textbook in the akkadian grammer, but if you want to move beyond that you will have to learn the grammer by hard using von soden's book.
If on the other hand you want to learn something like latin or ancient greek, while their grammer is a bit harder than akkadian, you will a lot more resources in english to chose from. You can find those using the Internet. I'm not sure about others, such as classical hebrew, sanskrit, etc. For those you should do your own research using the internet.

[Anonymous No.13631788]

>>13615443
As long as she is thick but doesn't give tykmælk. That shit is gross.

[Anonymous No.13631815]

>>13631536
>>13631584
Could you knowledgable anons please give your opinion on this question?

>>13625824

[Anonymous No.13631983]

>>13625824
Benjamin Foster for a coherent story and Andrew George for the more accurate translation(parts that we don't have are left out making the text seem not as "fun" to read as one by foster)

[Anonymous No.13632092]

>>13631983
Thanks for that, does the Foster version being produced as recently as this year have better / more source material than Geroge's version ?

[Anonymous No.13632133]

>>13632092
I haven't read the new translation as of yet, but I've heared that Andrew George's is still the authority on scholary translations of the work.

[Anonymous No.13632157]

>>13597381
Friendly reminder that akkadians and sumerians were nigger-tier compared to based egyptians and based hindu-aryans and mainly to based scytians

[Anonymous No.13632425]

>>13632157
First literature was Sumerian.

[Anonymous No.13632431]

>>13632157
Sure, calling the civilisation that gave us mathematics, astronomy, the first irrigation system, the first writing system, the first schools, the first system for dating and our modern sexagesimal system for time, the first recipe for beer, whose precursors gave us the wheel, who created the first art, pottery, the first administrative bodies, the first centralized goverment and many more things important for the development of the human race as we know it today, nigger-tier(a.k.a. unproductive) is completely jusitified and not just mediocre bait.

[Anonymous No.13632433]

>>13631584
>>13631536
Is German really necessary? How fluent does one have to be in German to read that textbook competently?

[Anonymous No.13632583]

>>13632433
You could probably aquire a working understanding of akkadian without being fluent in german, but a lot of the interesting stuff has only been covered by german scholars.
The textbook isn't too easy to read. I would say your german should be C1 in order to read it without much difficulty, but you could probably fight your way through it at B2. It will most likely sit on your shelf anyway, since the book is literally just a collection of the grammatical rules without much of any examples or exercies. So you've basically got to learn the language by simply learning its grammatical rules by hard.

[Anonymous No.13633183]

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[Anonymous No.13633592]

> he hasn't read the holy Qur'an in Arabic

Enjoy the hellfire kuffars

[Anonymous No.13634092]

Enuma Elis is better

[Anonymous No.13634540]

bump

[Anonymous No.13634975]

I like Shamhat the harlot. She is motherly, yet whorish, she is fleeting orgasmic feeling, she is the earthy, fertile bedrock of civilised life. She births and raises--as it were--Enkidu as a city dwelling man and doesn't ask for anything in return. For six days and seven nights her cunt becomes Enkidu's world--to use that infamous grrm-ian turn of phrase--and this allows him to discover a new world, the world of girdled men who live in cities and raise sheep and bake bread and brew ale and bake bricks and dig canals and do the work of the eternal gods for them. To call someone a harlot or a whore nowadays would be to belittle them; Shamhat though, it is implied I think, is given great respect. After all it is for her that the sun god Shamash scolds dying and raging Enkidu and makes him recant his curses into blessings; it's funny how he doesn't feel the need to do the same for the hunter who, after all, had discovered Enkidu the beast. I like mother/whore female characters like that.

[Anonymous No.13635504]

>>13632433
>wants to learning a lost, stick in mud language.
>bitch about learning a well known, useful, full of study materials language.
also anime pic

[Anonymous No.13635568]

>>13635504
>not being autistic or at least eccentric
get off my board

[Anonymous No.13635797]

>>13631584
>>13632583
>by hard
You mean by heart.

[Anonymous No.13635979]

>>13635797
Yeah, thanks for pointing that out.

[Anonymous No.13635981]

>>13635797
;)

[Anonymous No.13635995]

>>13635979
No problem.

[Anonymous No.13636347]

>>13619658
Thanks

[Anonymous No.13636370]

>>13604378
The IE part is the one about piss drinking and letting bulls breed your wife, the only good part of the Vedic religion came from the BMAC and IVC.

[Anonymous No.13637514]

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[Anonymous No.13637622]

>>13631788
Tykmælk is really good for guldkakao, anon

[Anonymous No.13637673]

>>13637622
>guldkakao
based

[Anonymous No.13637700]

>>13632433
There is another textbook, that while not as good von Soden's, still does a pretty good job. It's called "Grammatik des akkadischen". There is a translation of that book by H. Hoffner jr, called "akkadian grammer". You might want to check that out.

[Anonymous No.13637745]

>>13637700
Thank you, anon. I'll probably look into both.

[Anonymous No.13638145]

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[Anonymous No.13638694]

>>13637700
cool

[Anonymous No.13640008]

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[Anonymous No.13640017]

>>13597381
Uhhhhh doesn’t Hebrew come from Akkadian

[Anonymous No.13640032]

>>13640017
All semitic languages come from Akkadian, afaik.

[Anonymous No.13640677]

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[Anonymous No.13640955]

bamp

[Anonymous No.13641055]

>>13619163
Ok this is fascinating. I'm definitely going to have to read more deeply into it.

Thank you for making me aware of a school of philosophy I had not formerly encountered.

[Anonymous No.13642032]

>>13641055
theology

[Anonymous No.13642601]

>>13637673
Sometimes it gets a little hectic out here in the suburbs

[Anonymous No.13643995]

Weird how this thread keeps on surviving.

[Anonymous No.13644342]

>>13597381
i-na-ia-sha-am-sha-am! li-it-ib-tu-la-a-ma na-wi-it-tam-lu-ush-bi

[Anonymous No.13644862]

>>13644342
what did he mean by this

[Anonymous No.13644970]

>>13644342
Heh, guess being a phoenposter does have its merits. I can at least type a damn š, instead of having to type it out phonetically.

[Anonymous No.13645619]

bump