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/lit/ - Literature

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13597010 No.13597010 [Reply] [Original]

Books that discuss laziness as a value? Neoliberal productivity is cringe as fuck.

>> No.13597020 [DELETED] 

Indolence as a virtue is definitely not good. You need to DOsomething to get stuff done in life. No one ever got anywhere by being lazy. It’s why indolence is a sin.

>> No.13597025

das kapital

>> No.13597027 [DELETED] 

>>13597025
but that's quite the opposite. what you produce is what you get.

>> No.13597034

Cioran

"Men generally work too much to be themselves. Work is a curse which man has turned into pleasure. To work for work’s sake, to enjoy a fruitless endeavor, to imagine that you can fulfill yourself through assiduous labor — all that is disgusting and incomprehensible. Permanent and uninterrupted work dulls, trivializes, and depersonalizes. [...] That each of us must have a career, must enter upon a certain form of life which probably does not suit us, illustrates work’s tendency to dull the spirit. Man sees work as beneficial to his being, but his fervor reveals his penchant for evil. In work, man forgets himself; yet his forgetfulness is not simple and naive, but rather akin to stupidity. Through work, man has moved from subject to object; in other words, he has become a deficient animal who has betrayed his origins. Instead of living for himself — not selfishly but growing spiritually — man has become the wretched, impotent slave of external reality. Where have they all gone; ecstasy, vision, exaltation? Where is the supreme madness or the genuine pleasure of evil? The negative pleasure one finds in work partakes of the poverty and banality of daily life, its pettiness. Why not abandon this futile work and begin anew without repeating the same wasteful mistake? Is subjective consciousness of eternity not enough? It is the feeling for eternity that the frenetic activity and trepidation of work has destroyed in us. Work is the negation of eternity. The more goods we acquire in the temporal realm, the more intense our external work, the less accessible and farther removed is eternity. Hence the limited perspective of active and energetic people, the banality of their thought and actions. I am not contrasting work to either passive contemplation or vague dreaminess, but to an unrealizable transfiguration; nevertheless, I prefer an intelligent and observant laziness to intolerable, terrorizing activity. To awaken the modern world, one must praise laziness. The lazy man has an infinitely keener perception of metaphysical reality than the active one."

>> No.13597039

Bob Black's Abolition of Work

>> No.13597047

>>13597039
came to post this, but it's not so much about laziness, but against the work as an institution. against organized work

>> No.13597073

>>13597047
I can agree. Although Anon said he despised Neoliberalism's productivity fetish, so it could still apply.

>> No.13597079

>>13597010

Pinecone

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/97/05/18/reviews/pynchon-sloth.html

>> No.13597154

>>13597010

In Governing by Debt, Maurizio Lazzarato critiques the modern debt economy and concludes by advocating refusal of work, a variant on the "do nothing/don't even take power" form of resistance which was also employed by certain Italian far-leftists (autonomists, Opera-ists) during the Red Brigade years ("years of lead") in the 1970s. He acknowledges the counter-intuitiveness of the idea, but also points out that "work" is usually framed today as work within capitalism. The "unemployed" person is (framed as) lazy. The point, for him, is to deny capitalism itself your productivity (while you might still do your own personal chores in your squat, say, or spend your time in elevated NEET-dom, reading books and gathering information on the internet at your own pleasure).

Lazzarato particularly cites artists Malevich and Duchamp, who lament work (specifically the need to work in order to earn a living) and Paul Lafargue's "The Right to be Lazy". Malevich's (very small book/essay) is called "Laziness: the real truth of mankind". It doesn't seem to be available in English online but I find larger fragments in the French. According to Lazzarato, Malevich also lamented that communism (like capitalism) also celebrated and made a virtue of work; the revolutionary would therefore not (yet?) be freed of work, of wage-cuckery, or comrade-quota-cuckery.

Bertrand Russell (in praise of idleness) and apparently Samuel Johnson also have pro-lazy work.

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/paul-lafargue-the-right-to-be-lazy

>> No.13597156

>>13597027
>what you produce is what you get
but it's the opposite
from everyone according to their ability, to everyone according to their need

>> No.13597204

>>13597156
lazy people usually don't need much. It's the productive people that crave high adrenaline sports, cruising, a large house, family, all that high maintenance shit

>> No.13597247

Productivity is a slave virtue

>> No.13597292

>>13597247

Possible rebuttal: "Contingent upon valuing human life, some form of work and industry is always necessary, whether you support capitalism or not, whether you support given political/religious view X, or not. This is true because we all find ourselves trapped in the material world, in physical reality, where entropy applies. One may make an argument of being a slave to capitalism/communism/christendom, etc, because there exist other forms of life outside of them. It is therefore possible to conceive of being outside of them, i.e. to escape slavery to them. But it is not possible to conceive of being outside of the physical world (pace, giggling non-materialists, let me complete my thought), so that describing oneself as a "slave to reality" is superfluous, really a form of petulance, or vain impotence."

>> No.13597337

>>13597292
How is that a rebuttal?

>> No.13597388

>>13597337

Because the rhetorical dismissal of work as a slave virtue is meaningless and invalid if one simply refers to reality itself. This, because you never get to "stand outside of reality" and go "Ha ha! Stupid plebs, working at all." You yourself will always be obliged to perform some sort of work, however small, if you wish to live. Imagine a prey animal running to escape its predator. So goes the proposed argument, anyway.

Now if you're referring to some specific form of human culture (those suggested, or others) then you might have something.

>> No.13597741

>>13597020
Disagree: I get satisfaction out of being lazy occasionally

t. anglo accountant

>> No.13597892
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13597892

>> No.13597994

When seeking work for the sake of the pay, almost all men are alike at present in civilised countries. To all of them work is a means, and not itself the end; on which account they are not very select in the choice of the work, provided it yields an abundant profit. But there are rarer men who would rather die than work without enjoyment in their work: the fastidious people, difficult to satisfy, whose object is not served by an abundant profit, unless the work itself be the reward of all rewards. Artists and contemplative men of all kinds belong to this rare species of human beings; and also the idlers who spend their life in hunting and travelling, or in love affairs and adventures. They all seek toil and trouble in so far as these are associated with pleasure, and they want the severest and hardest work if it be necessary. In other respects however they have a resolute idleness, even if it should spell impoverishment, dishonour, and danger to health and life. They are not so much afraid of boredom as of work without pleasure; indeed they require much boredom if their work is to succeed with them. For the thinker and for all inventive spirits boredom is the unpleasant "calm" of the soul which precedes the happy voyage and the dancing breezes; he must endure it, he must await the effect it has on him: it is precisely this which lesser natures cannot at all achieve! It is common to scare away boredom by every means, just as it is common to work without pleasure. It perhaps distinguishes the Asiatics above the Europeans, that they are capable of a longer and profounder calm; even their narcotics operate slowly and require patience in contrast to the obnoxious suddenness of the European poison, alcohol

From The Gay Science

>> No.13598034 [DELETED] 

>>13597892
Interesting. Does Scrotum argue for elites need for leisure being me important, or perhaps that too much leisure brings too much drab middlebrow art?

>> No.13598037 [DELETED] 

>>13598034
You are being subtle tonight, I’ll give you that baby.

Kiss my cock :3

>> No.13598067

>>13597892
Interesting. Does Scrotum argue for elites need for leisure being more important, or perhaps that too much leisure brings too much drab middlebrow art?

>> No.13598099

>>13597388
You(re taking "work" in an extremely general sense that will include most kinds of human activity. A rich heir dedicating his life to historiography is also working in this sense, but he's doing free, liberal work (plus some socialization work by living in the high society). Still it might have nothing to do with an ethic of productivity. Productivity =! work.

I'd personally argue for more of an ethic of "destructivity". I'm not advocating raiding cities and leveling them, but rather getting rid of stuff. We don't need more books, music, art or even science. We have enough of all that, indeed, too much. The lazy man who does nothing, the wagecucked slave, the proud "creator" who churns out mediocre output - we don't need them. We don't even need the moderately good or the merely non-excellent creator. We need people whose chief skill and purpose it to get rid of stuff, to clear up that hellish clogged stream that results of human activity. Down with work, but most importantly down with the fruits of work.

>>13597994
Nice quote, and on point.

>> No.13598129

>>13597994
>Artists and contemplative men of all kinds belong to this rare species of human beings; and also the idlers who spend their life in hunting and travelling, or in love affairs and adventures. They all seek toil and trouble in so far as these are associated with pleasure
Thank you. Tears dislodged old memories. I was once trying to be like this and this damned world broke me.
Now I’m trying to get back to it.
And thank you anons, who have no doubt moved on, who coaxed me to read Friedrich.

>> No.13598507

Bump

>> No.13598567

>>13597994
i was just wondering what is the difference between laziness and contemplation?

>> No.13598605

>>13598567
Laziness and boredom bring forth contemplation. Those who are overworked and ridden with anxiety and those in modern society who try to avoid boredom by trying to keep themselves constantly entertained dont think and have the mental capacity of an animal.

>> No.13598610

>>13597156
>from everyone according to their ability
Ah komrad! Still alive after 15 hours in the mines? Clearly we have not gotten enough from you, let us take from you according to your ability.

>to everyone according to their need
Ah komrad! Still alive after one week on a ration of half a potato per day!? Clearly you only need a quarter of a potato per day.

This is why that idea is incredibly flawed and the soviet union let do the deaths of countless thousands.

>> No.13598616

>>13597010
Stop trying to use meme concepts like neoliberal to justify being a lazy fag. Accomplishing things and working hard is virtuous. I hate you fuckers that spend all day at work complaining about it just so you can go home and consume entertainment. Such a loser mentality

>> No.13598617

>>13598605
those animals run the world now what

>> No.13598620

>>13598610
The infinitely better concept is

From each according to their need
>work only as much as you believe you must to afford the things you desire

To each according to their ability
>sounds mean, but is actually the rational way to distribute wealth. What right does a man have to squander what he cannot earn? And even then, the disabled that get ficked by this idea are helped by voluntary aid.

>> No.13598646

>>13598617
Nobody runs the world, and the world runs over us all in the end.

>> No.13598669

>>13598605
Some people genuinely don't enjoy thinking. It's a legitimate psychological observation.

>> No.13598684

>>13598616
lowIQ boomer platitudes
>>13598099
I agree, we need to focusing our efforts into taking out the trash, and that trash may very well be the phenomenology of the wageslave themselves. They are littering existence with their mediocrity. It's like a constant stream of annoying graffiti. Nuke the 4chan archives.

>> No.13598696

>>13598684
"Nuke the archives!" makes for a pretty badass political slogan.

>> No.13598736

>>13598696
You could easily use some pseudo-Buddhist jargon. People need to let go. There is obviously a big fear over "lost knowledge" and shit but the vast majority of "stuffs" is just obstructionist trash that doesn't deserve to exist. Fuck your Nora Roberts novels and fuck your Heinz ketchup packets. We don't need to make this shit the vast majority of human labor is detrimental to the human experience.

>> No.13598769

>>13597994
Nietzsche was an incredible thinker. Check out Evolas books "Ride the Tiger" and "Revolt against the modern world".
In ride the tiger he talks at length about the modern conception of "work". Its right along these lines.

>> No.13598808

>>13597994
>even their narcotics operate slowly
like what? weed?

>> No.13598811

>>13598808
I assume he was referring to opium.

>> No.13599152

>>13597020

Without getting into full nihilism, your argument is still debatable because it can be argued conversely that there is nothing inherently valuable in DOING anything. You say you have to 'do' to 'get stuff done' - what 'stuff'? Those things which we are dragged kicking and screaming into from birth and childhood, those systemic conventions which we are duty-bound to commit our lives to? Buying a car, a house; subscribing to Netflix and NowTV; getting wasted ever Saturday with friends I have to make, save I appear as some weirdo or loner? What evidence is there to suggest that those things are inherently valuable compare to, say, living in a tent in the outer Hebrides? You cannot presume one lifestyle superior to another due to some latent value, and neither can I. All I can argue is that there is perhaps more value in the act which is fulfilling with regards to the individual
, be it rooted in physical graft or indolence - this cannot be overshadowed by some anachronistic vision of duty and work ethic. I'd rather live by my own volition than by a contract, even if that volition results in nothing but ennui.

>> No.13599164
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13599164

>>13597010

>> No.13599166

>>13597204
>lazy people usually don't need much
Except food, vidya, housing and social care
> It's the productive people that crave high adrenaline sports, cruising, a large house, family, all that high maintenance shit
You're confusing need with desire but most genuinely productive people do it for the fulfilment of the work and thus rarely splurge or go on holiday.

>> No.13599178

>>13598620
Your ideals sound like a capitalist society with moderate social care.

>> No.13599220

I’m always on the lookout for lazycore lit; being an inveterate idler myself, I enjoy reading about those who reject society’s fetishization of work.

As others have pointed out, Bob Black’s essay is excellent, as well as Paul Lafargue’s. Tom Luntz wrote a (mediocre) book about the subject called Doing Nothing— it will at least give you some other avenues to follow.

As for laziness in fiction, there’s no shortage of that. Huckleberry Finn and Confederacy of Dunces come immediately to mind. Lately I’ve been engrossed in the work of Egyptian-French writer Albert Cossery. Check him out if you haven’t already done so. Really good stuff.

>> No.13599229

>>13599152
>there is nothing inherently valuable in DOING anything.
Not him.
By virtue of existence, this is false, as to enjoy the hedonistic pleasures of life you must still feed and maintain yourself.
Even from the egoist stance, this is false, as you have to struggle somewhat before you gain the pleasure of sucking your own dick, or stealing someone's wallet.
>I'd rather live by my own volition than by a contract
And some seek personal gratification carrying out societal expectations.

Either way, you will have "work ethic". That is inescapable. Whether for yourself or for your paycheck is irrelevant.

>> No.13600284

Bump

>> No.13600305

>>13600284
bump

>> No.13600307

>>13598669
I would say "this can't be real" but it doesn't seem that far off.

>> No.13600326
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13600326

The 10 Commandments

>> No.13600432

is contemplation good for women

>> No.13600469

>>13597034
which book?

>> No.13600490

>>13598616
don't worry eventually AI will give us all time to laze around or will it

>> No.13600523

thorstein veblen's theory of the leisure class, to some extent, argues that the waste of time is the fundamental signal of wealth and honour in human societies, and drudge work is stigmatised. although there is almost always a pretense of pseudo-productivity

>> No.13600541

>>13598099
a great truth is posted here. the landfill is the organizing principal of late capitalism

>> No.13600547

>>13600469
on the heights of despair

>> No.13600555

>>13598610
>hey wagie, i need you to work late tonight. your overtime pay is not getting fired
>hey wagie, we're changing our insurance plan so your premium is going up for the same coverage. also you have to drive 40 miles to get to an in-network doctor lol

>> No.13600567
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13600567

>>13597010
the mother of all lazylit coming though

>> No.13600632

>>13600547
thanks. I love his style of writing, added it to my list.

>> No.13600682

Nothing but work is fun or virtuous.
Modern work is hellish and futile.
>Boomer conclusion: fuck you do it anyway because you're obligated to
>Enlightened conclusion: only work that aligns with our innate desires is worth anything; wageslavery is death

>> No.13601277

Bump

>> No.13601317

i've not read it but bertrand russell wrote a book 'in praise of idleness'

>>13597020
>You need to DOsomething to get stuff done in life. No one ever got anywhere by being lazy
you're talking in circles

>> No.13601486

>>13598617
Which is why everything is shit

>> No.13601815

>>13597010
third century daoist philosophers were all over that shit
look up xi kang and ruan jia

>> No.13601950

Don't remember if he supports laziness but Byung Chul-Han criticizes the neoliberal productivity cult

>> No.13603250

>>13597010
My diary desu

>> No.13603419

>>13597010
I remember this one nigga writing about how the desire to keep occupied was feminine, and men were only moved to work in order to achieve goals and resources. Can't remember who though, one of you ought to know. Maybe Evola

>> No.13603501

>>13597154
>>13597079
Thanks, thse are good diatribes.

>>13603419
There's another angle to must-have-shitty-wageslave-job: For many people I see, wageslaving is the only way they socialize. Our system works that way from childhood - school, college, work - always together with random people to make friends or hate and participate in petty social games.

It's the virtual tribe, the modern equivalent of village. And leaving it is not an option for a lot of people, as they've long forgot how to make friends on their own, or how to cope as a hermit. The system provided em with gentle push their whole life.