/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.13576738]

Can reading ancient philosophy have any real impact on a modern mind?

I am unhappy 24/7, sick to death of feeling bored, inferior and unfulfilled. I detest society and I see collective insanity everywhere yet I participate in it just the same as I feel I have no choice.

The Stoics are pushed heavily these days but I can't help but think that living a sparse and stoic life is simply a coping mechanism for those who don't have the wherewithal to live a decadent life.

Christ, I'm unhappy. Is philosophy the answer?

[Anonymous No.13576746]

It is the cure for the degeneracy of modern life.

[Anonymous No.13576755]

>>13576746

But how can it change someone psychologically? For instance, if someones mind is distorted by porn or social media or other filth, how can reading philosophy change that? You can understand virtuous behaviour intellectually but how do you internalise it?

[Anonymous No.13576761]

>>13576738
I mean, it hasn't necessarily fixed me, but the classics have given me a new understanding of humanity and made me more interested in literature in general. I feel inspired by Homer and see his characters and images in everyday life.

I would say Aristotle's striving towards the ideal through virtue has also altered my energy levels. I study harder and exercise more.Not sure if it's necessarily cured my boredom and depression but it's definitely helped.

>collective insanity

The ancients viewed civic life a core component of being human, so what do you mean by insanity?

>The Stoics

The Stoics are overrated. Marcus Aurelius using a severe military level of mental discipline might have made sense when you are General and the leader of a country, but modern man needs a bit more of a balanced lifestyle. Some Greeks would say be decadent but most would argue that balance in life is key.

[Anonymous No.13576780]

>>13576761

>so what do you mean by insanity?

Talking mainly about the current degeneracy, narcissism and polarisation that is being exacerbated by social media etc. And also the mindless obsession with consumerism. Not saying I'm not personally complicit in some of these things because I am. But I see this happening on a global scale and its sad. Humans have lost touch with each other and with nature to a great degree. I see little virtue anywhere, only greed and lust.

[Anonymous No.13576789]

>>13576780
I don't know why people seem to think degeneracy is a real thing, and narcissism isn't collectivist at all. Polarisation and tribal thinking I can understand.

Consumerism has been detailed heavily by Marxists so you can start there.

In general, although I would advocate that you study the classics you might also want to see a therapist.

[Anonymous No.13576797]

>>13576738
philosophy is not self-help. fuck off.

[Anonymous No.13576806]

>>13576797

Tried to think up a pithy zinger of a philosophical retort but I can't think of one.

[Anonymous No.13576814]

>>13576738
Don't read ancient texts to find answers on something that's particular to modern society. Read Ted

[Anonymous No.13576832]

>>13576738
how do you imagine yourself successfully pursuing philosophy when you're a complete egotist that can only conceive of it as a tool for fixing your broken fee-fees? all this me me me shit already disqualifies you before you even started.

[Anonymous No.13576846]

>>13576832

This is the exact reason I want to pursue philosophy. I am fully aware of how self-absorbed I am in my own emotional problems. I hate being so consumed by my ego and seeing fault in everyone else when I know the same faults apply to me.

[Anonymous No.13576857]

>>13576832
Who the fuck are you, God? If someone wishes to stop being wretched, begging to end their suffering and contribute to the world, your moral superiority isn't a factor. Try living in real life.

[Anonymous No.13576858]

>>13576846
Then the classics are definitely your friend

[Anonymous No.13576890]

>>13576738
You have to change your diet, ideas are important but they don't make the difference.

[Anonymous No.13577031]

>>13576814
this

[Anonymous No.13577080]

>>13576857
i'm not telling him what he can and cannot try, i'm telling him what will and won't work. philosophy requires omnivorous intellectual curiosity and the pathologically self-centered will just bounce off of it halfway through the first book they pick up. look at how he responds to me with more me me me shit and not a trace of intellectual interest beyond how my feelings about the way i feel make me feel. it's fucked and i don't know how to help. he bought hopelessly into this default modern self-help/self-expression consumerist framework where life is about allocating your free time and money to the correct voluntary pursuit in hopes that it will build up to some imagined self-actualization. he wants philosophy like the housewife wants feng-shui and that's fucked and doomed. as a people we don't even know how to want anymore.

[Anonymous No.13577144]

>>13577080

Man you sound angry. Go read some Stoicism yourself

[Anonymous No.13577203]

oh I don't know... have you ever heard of the FUCKING RENAISSANCE?????

[Anonymous No.13577218]

>>13576738
>a coping mechanism for those who don't have the wherewithal to live a decadent life.

exactly, that's how I feel about my entire current situation as well. I couldn't live like that even if I wanted to, due to mental and physical pathology.

[Anonymous No.13577230]

there is no answer. nothing will make you happy once you realize this. There is only suffering, delusion, and then death, nothingness and non-existence.

[Anonymous No.13577242]

>>13576738
The background in that painting looks weird.

[Anonymous No.13577243]

>>13577230
well, depression is the price you have to pay when searching for honesty and truth. there's no way around it

[Anonymous No.13577251]

You should look into Buddhism. All the benefits of stoicism, plus a meaningful connection to the spirit, 2500 years of philosophy and practice and history, and a welcoming community.

[Anonymous No.13577260]

>>13577251
sounds like a good deal, does it come with mental health insurance included? Is there a "wasted time back" guarantee? These are rather important to me you see.

[Anonymous No.13577268]

>>13576738
It depends what philosophical branch or school you read.
I'd recommend epicureanism as an alternative to stoicism.

[Anonymous No.13577272]

>>13577251
Life denying fag.

[Anonymous No.13577274]

>>13577260

Do *any* of the paths in the search for truth? Does your current status quo have them?

[Anonymous No.13577302]

>>13577274
nope, i was simply pointing out the fact how even philosophy has become a sort of consumerist affair nowadays. You buy a bit of this, a bit of that, look at the list of benefits, and believe they somehow lead to a meaningful life. It's all so transparant. Delusion is tightly interwoven with our definition of meaning.

[Anonymous No.13577329]

>>13577302

This sounds more like cynicism than insight. Yes, spirituality has become a consumerist affair, but your that doesnt mean it won't lead to a meaningful life. Furthermore if you yourself havent found truth/meaning from what perspective do you label things as delusory? Im sorry, but it sounds like your projecting negativoty where it doesn't need to be.

[Anonymous No.13577332]

>>13577329
fact of the matter is, there are no facts, does that matter?

[Anonymous No.13577525]

Based Diogenes jerking off in public, my kind of Cynic!

[Anonymous No.13577616]

Read Nichomachean Ethics until it sticks.

[Anonymous No.13577690]

>>13577260
4chan is a marketplace of ideas after all

[Anonymous No.13577704]

>>13576738
Read Nietzsche

[Anonymous No.13577997]

>>13577704
His prose is too ancient to be read in modern times.

[Anonymous No.13578216]

>>13577997
>too ancient
He may be a bit confusing at times if you're not used to it, but calling his prose ancient is wrong. (Idk if they changed it majorly in the english translation, but in german at least he's mostly very readable except the few terms that aren't used anymore these days)

[Anonymous No.13578595]

I like this depiction of him more. It shows him in the context of greek society. Somehow it feels as if this scne could've been drawn yesterday. As if all that has changed is the technology surrounding us. Look at the way those girls are so elegantly perched on the white mediterranian staircase, going about their daily routine. Their silky garments draped around their soft, warm bodies as a slight breeze creeps underneath to carress their smooth youthful skin.
This is contrasted by the dark, claustrophobic habitat diogenes has confined himself to. Their behaviour towards him looks to be that of somewhat playful sympathy, gently inviting him back into the relaxing, careless current of aristocratic society.
It humanizes him, puts into perspective the intense battle going on in his mind. How much more happy would he be, if only he'd simply give in to the earthly life. And yet he remains there, sat in his pot, holding a final stand against human delusion and pretense.

I dunno, this really does it for me, I can look at it forever.

[Anonymous No.13578636]

>>13578595

This scene is literally 3 seconds before he turns round and pisses on them

[Anonymous No.13578677]

>>13578636
kek, citation needed. don't ruin this image for me

[Anonymous No.13578700]

>>13576738
It's not a cure.

1) EXERCISE - that means running not just weight lifting. Preferably in the morning, endorphins will make your day better.

2) EAT WELL - cut out fast food, "body is the holy temple" and all that bullshit. you feel like a piece of shit after binging and you look like a piece of fucking shit. just don't do it.

3) MAKE SOME MALE FRIENDS - this was done for me via university and work. having male friends is essential.

4) STOP BELIEVING THE OPINION OF SOME DEAD FUCK IS GOING TO IMPRINT ITSELF SO DEEPLY INTO YOUR MIND THAT YOU'LL BE CURED AND LIFE WILL BE FANTASTIC
- I read philosophy because initially i wanted to sound impressive when i was a teenager but it gradually developed into my own personal hobby. But not one of them philosophers had a profound effect on me.

5) IF YOU NEED INSPIRATION, GO INSTEAD OF GREAT HISTORICAL FIGURES. - Douglas Macarthur, Churchill, Ghengis khan etc. Whenever i feel the strain of life weighing down upon me I remember one of the Richard's in the War of roses, whose father and brother were slaughtered and had their heads hung on london gates,and this poor richard, 14 years old, had to lead his armies against the lancastrians.


6) UNIRONICALLY READ CHAD MEMES FOR THE ANSWER

[Anonymous No.13578711]

>>13578595
thats actually quite beautiful, thanks for sharing

[Anonymous No.13578766]

>>13578636
>>13578677
I foresaw him moments from raw dogging one right there in the street as greek society continues to degenerate. Also it looks modern because the umbrellas are an anachronism.

[Anonymous No.13578795]

>>13578766
no they're not. umbrellas were around thousands of years ago. I was pointing more to human behaviour. The atmosphere of this painting, the way these people carry themselves, regardless of the way they're clothed. It's timeless, human behaviour is timeless.

[Anonymous No.13578835]

>>13576755
Through practice. Internalization of any wisdom tradition (which ideally culminates in Faith) that clashes with beliefs you already hold will take practice and commitment.

[Anonymous No.13578976]

>>13578795
Oh yeah, maybe those are parasols. The woman in the back confused me. Also looks like a modern cafe in the back. Reminds me pf the "fast-food franchises" in Pompeii.

[Anonymous No.13579219]

>>13578795
it's probably not an accurate peek into ancient greek society, given it was painted in 1882. However, we can quite confidently assume that human behaviour hasn't changed much in all these years. It's a nice painting no matter what

[Anonymous No.13579292]

>>13576738
The entirety of ancient thought has been synthesized and applied real world.

Look into
math
biology
medicine
psychology

[Anonymous No.13579333]

just made this. if only this were my everyday experience with women

[Anonymous No.13580018]

>>13576780
>Humans have lost touch with each other
Well, that hasn't really changed since I was a kid in the 90s, so its not a big loss.
Going and from reading 1800s literature i don't really think its any different back then. You just have to do more effort to visit more people to not get bored, and there is more communal/teamwork effort to stay alive to get food.

From what I read of your posts(or OP, who knows, anon is anon) it is simple. I get a very simple view of it
You are basically insecure because you care more about other people, than fullfilling your own goals. And you get sad watching people isolate themselves by whatever modern trend there is: To try avoiding proper human interaction.
This isn't new, this is something that happens in every single attempt of urbanization that has plagued society. Simply there isn't enough team work, so you don't get social, and it breeds contempt and urban isolation.

Then again
> feeling bored
Get a hobby. Painting, hiking, anything. But try to be social about it, so you don't become a lonely autist.
>inferior
Any solution to inferiority is to deal with the core issue. Getting high social positions won't fix it.
In itself inferiority is assuming anybody is better, which they might be if your social position or knowledge is bad enough. But in itself you must find out what is inferiority, and deal with it. Somehow.
Best of luck.
>unfulfilled
Thats just boredom in disguise. Or rather, its what happens when you finish todays activities, and realize its still too long to bed and the next dose of healthy activities. I spent half a year suffering that feeling in a entry level desk job before i left that life behind.
Boredom is NOW, unfulfillment is TOMORROW

if in doubt:
-Nietzche is a mess to read. Too dull and heavy, but great
-So is Marx.
-Premodern stuff is often extremely poetic, to make it readable to a crowd that isn't used to modern literature consumption
-Try to read up on Agape. Its what has kept western society afloat since Rome

[Anonymous No.13580029]

>>13579333
this doesn't make sense, it should be a smug pepe or mildly pissed off pepe

[Anonymous No.13580038]

>>13580029
nah, i chose to show an honest expression. This is how all the smug cynics on 4chan actually feel deeper down.

[Anonymous No.13580054]

>>13580029
but i'll make another one, specially for u bb

[Anonymous No.13580088]

Philosophy may help, or, most likely, will only expand the existencial void.
There are certain books that lean to certian mentalities. Nietzche's Thus Spoke Zarathrusta and The Gay Science are good to put some control and happiness in your life, Nietzche is not le nihilistic man like every edgy teenager tells you, he actually despised nihilism, and wanted you to learn to be strong.

On a non-philosophy side, reading authors like Bukowski or Dostoyevski might give you a "home" to know that you are not alone, Ham on Rye, Factotum and Notes from the underground might be good to you.

Godspeed you! Anon.

[Anonymous No.13580172]

>>13580054
>>13580029
here u go big guy

[Anonymous No.13580198]

Diogenes was the ur-incel

[Anonymous No.13580371]

[Anonymous No.13581517]

>>13576738

Reading the quote below by Zeno gave me perspective of the universe as a series of aggregations and systems divisible only by small degrees. I occasionally play a game where I imagine the smallest part of something and remember that it's mass of parts might also be divided further into what is essentially a separate existence (which is in itself built upon an aggregation of smaller existences). That's about all the ancient philosophy ever made any real impact in the way I think (that I know of). I apologize, also, If i'm not very clear.

"If several things exist, it is necessary for them to be as many as they are, and neither more nor fewer. But if they are as many as they are, they will be finite. If several things exist, the things that exist are infinite. For there are always others between the things that exist, and again others between them. And in this way the things that exist are infinite."

and

"But if it exists, it is necessary for each thing to have some bulk and magnitude, and for one part of it to be at a distance from the other. And the same argument applies to the protriding part. For that too will have a magnitude, and a part of it will protrude. Now it is all one to say this once and to say it for ever. For it will have no last part of such a sort that there is no longer one part in front of another. IN this way if there exist several things it is necessary for them to be both small and large - so small as not to have a magnitude, so large as to be infinite."

[Anonymous No.13581542]

>>13576738
Jesus Christ is the answer

[Anonymous No.13581826]

>>13580371
perfection.

[Anonymous No.13581876]

>>13576846
At least you're aware of the problem. I give you points for that. If you're searching for ego dissolution I suggest getting into Advaita Vedanta.

[Anonymous No.13581885]

>>13577332
You sound like 'ken wheeler'