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/lit/ - Literature

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13557101 No.13557101 [Reply] [Original]

why is Mordor portrayed as evil for industrializing and expanding their lands out of a firey hellscape into some place where it's decent to live? People say orcs don't have culture, but the architecture and industrial design of Barad-dûr is cunning and intricate. how is saruman different from any other ruler?

>> No.13557119

>>13557101
>why is Mordor portrayed as evil for industrializing and expanding their lands out of a firey hellscape into some place where it's decent to live?
Because THEY made it into a firey shithole, See: Mexico.

>> No.13557129

>>13557101
If orcs were once elves, then they must have retained a sense for aesthetics.

>> No.13557140

>>13557101
This is actually a good question. Tolkien wrote things this way on purpose. His thing was that artifice and industry are not fundamentally good, but are prone to serious misuse. The conflicts of the series all arise as a result of craft directed towards gaining power. There's a longer and more in-depth description in the introduction to the Silmarillion, where the editor quotes his letters on the subject at length

>> No.13557144

>>13557129
yes, exactly. as they are inverted elves, they still have the affinity for aesthetics, but put that towards clever machines and great constructions. this is just not recognized as aesthetically valuable by the Elves, who influence Men and dwarves

>> No.13557157
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13557157

>>13557101
I think Tesla said it best. Tolkien was showing how technology can be misused to destroy all that is good if left unchecked.

>> No.13557162

>>13557144
What are you on nigger, the orcs don’t build any of their things and they’re managed by maiar

>> No.13557177

>>13557162
>"Now goblins are cruel, wicked, and bad-hearted. They make no beautiful things, but they make many clever ones."

>> No.13557187

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sh36Ys0hxoE

>> No.13557194

>>13557101
because they're evil

>> No.13557199

I align myself with saruman

>> No.13558714
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13558714

>>13557101
>why is X portrayed as evil for industrializing
Good one, OP.

>> No.13559057
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13559057

>>13558714
I unironically got into Ted Kaczynski after reading the Lord of the Rings. I loved The Scouring of the Shire.

>> No.13559395

>>13557101
not sure if OP is trying to subtly troll, so first i'll correct his misconception, then i'll address what he prolly meant.
you ask of Mordor, but you posted Isengard.
You mention Barad-dur, but then mention Saruman.
Barad-dur is in Mordor, which is controlled by Sauron. (SAURon, not SARUman)
Orthanc is in Isengard, which is controlled by Saruman.

now onto your actual question.
The orcs were known to have technology and culture, but it wasn't any kind of culture that Tolkien admired. In Tolkien's eyes, "not all cultures are equal".
Needless to say, liberals take offense to this.
For one, the orcs utilized slave labor (usually humans, sometimes Elves but more so in the First Age, and humans in later ages). Tolkien wasn't a fan of slavery.
Architecturally, Tolkien didn't like Orc culture because of how it was solely focused on utility, and "wasted" nothing on aesthetic.
He also didn't like industrialization as it is responsible for de-humanisation, what Spengler called "Civilization", as opposed to the Elven "Culture" that is much more rural and tied to the land. Orcs lived in mega-cities, packed like sardines, each only concerned for himself, largely unaware of his neighbors and people on the street. Just like liberals in their cities, who walk past each other everyday and never remember 99.99% of them. Complete strangers to each other despite living in the same city.

>> No.13559419

Are there orc women or do they just all go gay

>> No.13559518

>>13559419
All three.

>> No.13559530
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13559530

>>13559057
I miss this nibba so muchhhhhhhh

>> No.13559611

>>13559419
Tolkien wrote that "Orcs reproduce in the manner of Elves and Men", which means sex.
The movies decided to go with the non-canon "mud pits" route.

There is another mention of orc women and orc children, where Tolkien mentions how the Dwarves massacred all the orc women and orc children during the War of the Dwarves and Orcs (which took place in the Misty Mountains, prior to the events of the Hobbit, the war where Thorin got his nickname of Oakenshield)

>> No.13559617

>>13559530
NIGGER, say NIGGER or fuck back to facebook

>> No.13560869

>>13559530
He ain't dead yet br0