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/lit/ - Literature

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13553093 No.13553093 [Reply] [Original]

What's /lit/'s opinion on Sapiens? I'm in part 4, it seems to swing wildly between blatant globohomo Jew narrative and "okay, fair point" thus far.

>> No.13553279
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13553279

>>13553093
Harari is the Rupi of history

>> No.13553281

>>13553093
Of course it has a Jewish narrative. Probably why I'll never read it

>> No.13553288

>>13553093
It's not terrible exactly but it's very basic shit, and he obvioulsy won't touch any taboo ideas. I did respect him for pointing out that the modern egalitarian notion of ethics is no more objective than the ancient noble version.

>> No.13553294

>>13553093
The most interesting part is the beginning.

>> No.13553321

>>13553093
Read the whole things in six days, but yes, there were moments of the stupid globohomo shit. But overall, a very interesting and enlightening work.

>> No.13553323

>>13553093
Why are you guys so obsessed with jews

>> No.13553327

>>13553323
that's just a placeholder, you know what he meant. although the author is a jew so it's not out of place.

>> No.13553331

>>13553323
Because Jews are whites that try and undermine other whites. We need to conquer them in order to fulfill the European revolution in a spiritual sense.

>> No.13553334

>>13553323
Reality itself is obssessed with Jews. Nobody else from 3000 fucking years ago even exists today as the same identity they were, maybe the Chinese or something, but they didnt spend that time being a minority in alien countries that never integrated and has a hundred times come to dominate and/or be expelled from the countries they live in. The 20th century was in many ways completely dominated by Jews when they're beyond tiny as a portion of the population of the world.

They are definitely God's chosen people, the only question is which God.

>> No.13553335

>>13553331
But there are jews on both sides, I don't understand how you can say they are a monolithic group that wants to undermine whites

>> No.13553338

>>13553334
I thought the whole "race realism" meme said jews were the most intelligent of the races, which leads to their success

>> No.13553342

>>13553338
the strict race realism only accounts for ashkenazi Jews post 1000ad in Europe, when they are thought to have evolved their higher iq. There is also the matter of innate tribal dispositions in Jews for people who talk about this stuff.

I don't pretend to really know fucking anything about the truth of this matter, but Jews are not just another people, they are extremely unique.

>> No.13553352

>>13553335
>there can only be two sides and they are completely distinct
are you serious? lol

>> No.13553357

>>13553342
I don't doubt there's something unique about them, I just don't see the constant /pol/ shilling that they are behind every problem facing society, or that they are monolithic in their views or beliefs. Jews have populated both sides of the political spectrum for a long time, the conspiracy theories just dont hold water for me

>> No.13553365

>>13553352
Why are you so autistic? Do you take everything you see or hear literally?

>> No.13553371
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13553371

>>13553294
I agree with his notion that the agricultural revolution was a trap that led us on our current rabbit trail, but the part about "there's NO reason why patriarchal societies are the mode" is either disingenuous or legitimately stupid. You can't have dug deep into history to have seen why matriarchal societies were inevitability displaced by patriarchal ones, pic related for memes and truth

>>13553323
The tl;dr on Semitic arguments is that Jews tend to be nihilistic post-structuralists in one breath and then perpetuate and reap the rewards of strong in-group tribalism in the next. If you don't know what I mean, you haven't been paying attention. This book is written by a gay (probably Reform or secular) Jew, which is why I bring it up in the OP, it's prototypical of that ilk.

>> No.13553379

>>13553365
have you ever read the discussions people have on /pol/? have you noticed that there are many different views of what is in the "white interest" or whether one should even act in the "white interest"? but there is this notion of a "white interest". guess what bud, there is also a notion of a "jewish interest". stop looking at ideology and start looking at group interests if you want to actually understand why anyone does anything.

>> No.13553385

>>13553357
It's not really a rabbit hole that is fun to go down, and I say that as someone who has touched every single issue, and i mean every single one, that is considered verboten in our society. You could not offend me by saying anything, advocate raping babies and ill listen to your argument if you have one.

But the JQ has this tinge of horror to it that i can't quite place. Maybe it's because I was brought up in a society that considers HItler the antichrist, or maybe it's due to the innately disturbing nature of their profound effect on human history over 3 milleniums.

Whatever it is the religious side of me thinks Jews are placed somewhere near the heart of the question of God. I honestly cannot decide which side they are one, the evil or good, they have their own way of doing things. Jews have contributed immensely to the civilizations they lived in, particularily Europe and America since they left the ghettos. But they have wrought so much incredible destruction as well, that is the stuff you'd have to read about on very fringe places, nobody will touch that with a ten foot pole anywhere reputable, but if you look into it you will come out at least with doubt.

To be clear, nobody outside myopic obsessives like Tanstaafl(blogger on the Age of Treason) attributes all societal ills to Jews, to do so is to express extreme ignorance of history. The only question is what exactly has been the nature of Jewish influence on the places they've lived in in various eras, and this question cannot be asked in universities. Kevin MacDonald published a book about Jews that was acclaimed by many

Jewish figures themselves(A people that shall dwell alone), discussing the nature of their creation, and their identity. He then later published the infamous Culture of Critique, which looked at what Jews did in the 20th century in ways harmful to the nations they lived in as minorities, and was cast out forever for it.

I've looked into this subject for the same reason I look into all others, random obsessive curiosity, and it has baffled and kind of frightened me. I don't agree with any particular antisemite or philosemite perspective, but there is clearly something at work here, and it isn't addressed by the conventional academic view of Jews(oppressed people who prospered nonetheless, who did nothing wrong. occasionally involving arguments that they prosper because they're smart, but that is uncomfortable because it's racism).

>> No.13553392

>>13553385
>nobody will touch that with a ten foot pole anywhere reputable,
should somewhat alter this. If you look at writers before the 20thh century you have everyone from Tacitus to Luther to Kant, Nietzsche and Dostoevsky saying absolutely unsayable things about Jews, which rather closely mirror common antisemitic complaints.

>> No.13553393

>>13553379
Yes, like I said there are jews on both sides, how does any of what you said add to this discussion? If you think I'm saying ideology is a strict binary you unironically have autism.
>stop looking at ideology and start looking at group interests
Holy fuck dude lmao, if you're going to claim group interest is the sole reason anyone does anything you need to cite some sources

>> No.13553399

>>13553342
>post 1000ad in Europe, when they are thought to have evolved their higher iq
Real galaxy brain stuff from our right wing cousins here

>> No.13553404

>>13553342
>the strict race realism only accounts for ashkenazi Jews post 1000ad in Europe, when they are thought to have evolved their higher iq.
OK, I think it would be great to present a citation on this. I'll allow you to pick up the words from the Race realist.

>> No.13553405

>>13553393
Marx is a pretty good analysis of how group interests shape society, but I don't think that's quite what he had in mind

>> No.13553406

>>13553393
>Why are you so autistic? Do you take everything you see or hear literally?
first you say this to me which is actually not what i was doing. the left-right view of politics is simply inadequate for a real understanding of world events.
>claim group interest is the sole reason
then you go on to do the thing you complain about yourself

it should have been clear that i meant you need a shift in focus if you can't understand how members of a group can take two (or many more realistically) different sides of an issue and how that group membership will colour their stance. honestly you are annoying so thats as much of a reply as you get.

>> No.13553409

>>13553399
It's an actual theory that was developed in the 2000s to explain ashkenazi success. It was Cochrane and whatever his coauthor is that made the original paper, explaining how the social conditions in Europe relating to Jews strongly selected for high IQ, even while bringing a slew of genetic disorders that this population has at insane levels- not only that, the highest IQ members of Ashkenazis are most likely to have those diseases, suggesting that they were so strongly selected for IQ that the mortality and dysfunction associated with the diseases was outweighed.

You can read about in the original paper they publish in a scientific journal, or in the popular literature book they published The 10 thousand year explosion.

If you make a drastic selective pressure on a population they change very quickly in that respect, this has long been acknowledged in evolutionary, theory, you can make a single generation much different than a previous one merely by culling with great discrimination, which is thought to have happened for centuries in Europe wrt Jews. Regression to mean does take place but can't overwhelm the general selective effect.

>> No.13553411

>>13553404
https://web.mit.edu/fustflum/documents/papers/AshkenaziIQ.jbiosocsci.pdf
here it is

>> No.13553416

>>13553335
When people say the Jews are a problem they are criticizing the liberal elite, the people that enable the liberal elite that control Hollywood, major news media outlets, the curriculum in academia, and the majority of finance, and the conservative Jews that put Israel first and act self-righteous and hypocritical. The working class non-urban Jew effectively does not exist. If you replaced Jew with Black you'd realize there was a problem, why the hesitation for Jews?

>> No.13553420

>>13553093
>>13553371
To clarify as OP, I'm not trying to further the common /pol/ anti-Semitic bent, I'm just saying that some of the arguments the author makes are exactly what you'd expect from such an author on an identitarian level. It's all rather tiresome, and really drags the book down at times imo.

Not that I take his work as Gospel, but The Alternative Hypothesis lays out decent arguments in "The European Revolution" and "A Celebration of the Jewish People" as to why there's a current clash between "white people" and Jews. If that's verboten, go read "200 Years Together" by Solzhenitsyn. If that's verboten, just go look at blue check Twitter and see the Jewish ones flip-flop their identity between white and Jewish. I'm not trying to be inflammatory here, just trying to identify and refer to what should be a commonly identifiable trope.

>> No.13553424

>>13553409
So one paper which had a rather mixed reception in peer review? Seems more like selection bias on your behalf

>> No.13553425

>>13553420
pointing out obvious facts has been inflammatory since before humans even really evolved. facts are not always aligned with particular interests of individuals and groups

>> No.13553427

>>13553424
Well yeah I think it could very well be wrong, and there could be alternate explanations for jewish prominence. I just thought it was interesting, and I do think IQ is a valuable measure, despite its denigration in the popular press, it has predictive value.

>> No.13553429

>>13553420
Alt-Hype is too reliant on statistics and not much of a thinker in himself. You'll see this with troublesome analysis at parts. Both of those videos were good though and very insightful. He also talks too fast at parts. Criticizing a group does not make you anti-semitic or racist, so don't buy into that narrative. Furthermore, Jews evolved to think that way, so it's going to be expected. Look at their voting demographics for further proof.

>> No.13553432

>>13553416
But these are just a bunch of claims, I don't doubt that jews are over represented at the top, but they are not monolithic, so I don't understand why you would focus on someone being jewish over what beliefs they profess. I think the zionist jew idea is a good example, the dems are supposedly controlled by marxist jews but even so the democrats are the biggest criticizers of israel (in mainstream politics of course). If jews were united on one side or another, perhaps you'd have more of an argument, but I have seen no evidence to suggest they are part of any conspiracy to undermine "western civilization" or whatever

>> No.13553436

>>13553424
Im also not terribly interested in peer review, either reproduce the study yourself with methodologies you think are more rigorous that will contradict its findings, or admit that you're just kind of saying random shit that isn't subject to falsification, which is what science is. The fact that you're an expert doesn't mean your peer review is science. Science is testing hypotheses.

>> No.13553459

>>13553432
I never posited any of that and there's hardly any conservative Jews in America. I clearly showed a difference between the two though and how there's still a problem. Conservative Jews put Israel first, and liberal Jews hate white people and force all this anti-white and black racist narratives on us. How come Jews have been expelled from countless societies as well?

>> No.13553463

>>13553371
I agree with your sentiment. I found the polytheism and monotheism explanation lacking and would have preferred to have expanded on that. The modern explanations I found lacking even in a general capacity.

>> No.13553465

>>13553436
Peer Review is a joke. Watch alt-hypes video on it.

>> No.13553474

>>13553436
its not really "random shit", at least in my field. whether a conclusion follows from a methodology must be determined logically unless you propose some kind of empiricist turtles all the way down approach to experimental design.

>> No.13553475

>>13553459
I never said you posited anything; and your own example proves my point. Jews clearly are not united, there are conservative zionist jews, and jews who are globalists, and against nation states. If they were monolithic they would not be divided like this.
>how come jews have been expelled
Because jews have stuck together as a religious and ethnic group throughout history, they have inhabited many countries as a minority with little support, making them an exceedingly easy scapegoat for people who need to ascribe blame.

>> No.13553476

>>13553411
What did the race realists explain about the strange phenomenon of high IQ in the East Asian race?
They and Ashkenazi have the same attribute of high IQ, but certainly show a difference (social status on the community is good example). What's the explanation of this difference?
Another one to ask. What was the reason behind the choice to separating Ashkenazi Jew and Sephardi Jew? As far as I know, Sephardi is more orthodox, even in the Racial context. And by that sense- Isn't the concept of Ashkenazi too broad? Whenever I saw this thread, I thought it had to narrow it down further. What is the explanation for not having to be narrower than Ashkenazi?

>> No.13553497

>>13553331
>Because Jews are whites
Poor bait.

>> No.13553508

>>13553497
How are Jews not white?

>> No.13553512

>>13553475
I don’t disagree, I think Jews can be good members of society, but when they’re able to distinguish themselves as an other and get power is when they’re a problem.

>> No.13553514

>>13553476
It's a genetic thing I guess, the Ashkenazi combine their tribal trait, shared with the Sephardic, with their IQ. That might be the idea, im not remotely an expert on JQ stuff
>>13553474
Yeah but you can still clearly see the potential for peer review to fall into groupthink, because it doesn't depend on the actual basis of science, which is testing hypotheses, but a group of people deciding what makes sense, which can unravel into dogmatism at the drop of a pin if there are serious consequences to the research in question.

>> No.13553515

>>13553508
They might have a 'white' complexion but they are not genetically similar to the people inhabiting western europe which is what to be 'white' actually means.

>> No.13553527

>>13553474
Also you should offer the specific criticisms the peer reviewers had of the material, if you think they were valid, then we could talk about them. They could very well be valid, but merely saying 'it was badly recieved in the peer review' is not an argument.

>> No.13553530

>>13553515
Ok so Eastern Europeans and Russians aren’t white either?

>> No.13553532

>>13553530
Correct

>> No.13553540

>>13553532
Dicky spencer said Iranians were white though.

>> No.13553545

>>13553540
Iranians are Aryan, it's an ad hoc reductionist argument to justify nazi Aryan propaganda which is misinterpreted by pseuds

>> No.13553548

>>13553545
How is it misinterpreted?

>> No.13553550

>>13553093
It was good up until after the Dutch during the age of imperialism. After that it had nothing more to say.

>> No.13553556

>>13553338
They score highest in IQ specifically because of their persecution. If it weren't for pogroms killing all the stupid ones they would be closer to average. They have an insular algorithm to live by much like islam but they have the restrictions to not imbreed and the lack of a homeland which completely decimated their population of retards and left them with a group of intelligent but incredibly neurotic survivors.

>> No.13553562

>>13553556
Only dumb Jews died during the holocaust and the intelligent ones all fled to America.

>> No.13553563

>>13553548
Aryan hypothesis has no substantial evidence, merely a nazi idea that supposed that light skinned people conquered Europe and they are their decadents. The Aryan idea morphed quickly to mean pure Germans regardless of the roots but was used as a tool to segregate and expel non-germans.

>> No.13553566

>>13553562
Correct. But you don't take into account that the holocaust was not without precedent. Pogroms happened for CENTURIES before the holocaust. Jews being money lenders isn't a stereotype for no reason. Christians couldn't lend money for centuries because it was sinful as it was attributed to gambling. Therefore, Jews took up the profession and then smart noblemen simply rallied their peasants to kill the lenders and bankers rather than repay their debts. Jews have been selectively killed/bred for thousands of years.

>> No.13553572

>>13553566
Do the Jews in America and Israel actually have any relation to the Jews in the Bible in ancient Israel?

>> No.13553576

>>13553563
So dicky spencer is a fool?

>> No.13553581

>>13553572
Fuck if I know genetics, I just know western civilization history from classes and read between the lines instead of buying into my college propaganda. Pogroms happened all the fucking time. Hitler just took what leaders in the past did and magnified it. The Holy Roman Empire was filled with leaders like him for centuries. I was the only one who laughed in class at things like chevauchee because I'm autistic and find the concepts funny. Same with the witch drowings etc.

>> No.13553584

>>13553576
Do you even need to ask?
>>13553572
No they are a distinct ethnic group, modern Palestinians are the cousins of 'bible jews'

>> No.13553589

>>13553584
Well why is dicky spencer on CNN and so popular? And I think he went to a good grad school

>> No.13553597
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13553597

>>13553475
>they have inhabited many countries as a minority with little support, making them an exceedingly easy scapegoat for people who need to ascribe blame.
Ah yes, The Eternal Victim ™, forever persecuted by the irrational, hate filled Goyim.
Every Fucking Time.

>> No.13553598

>>13553527
>saying 'it was badly recieved in the peer review' is not an argument.
Yes it is actually. It's pointing out that experts who have dedicated their professional careers to the subject in question, found it pretty dubious. Expected random anons on the Internet to repeat the study is asinine. I'm not going to personally measure the distance from the earth to the sun

>> No.13553601

>>13553572
In the Bible, Jews were only one tribe of Israel, Judah. And then, when Israel became a Kingdom, and then split after Solomon, the Southern two tribes became the kingdom of Judah, and the rest Israel. Ergo the rest of the country disappeared into a fog of history, speculation, and even conspiracy theories.
The origins of modern Jews is itself hazy. The Khazar origins don't necessarily cover the whole, though, even if its true. Jews are at least intellectually descended from the Jews of Antiquity, because the Rabbinical tradition goes all the way back to the evolution of the Pharisees in the wake of the Temple's destruction and the scattering of the Jews from Palestine.
I'd go as far to say, that even from a secular perspective, modern Jews are scarcely related to the ancient Israelites in religion, particularly. Jews have a conception that being Jewish is a special and immovable trait, and that God always looks more favorably upon the Jew. Orthodox Jews still see atheistic and materialistic Jews as part of them, and greater in status for that.
This is from Rabbinical/Talmudic literature, though, and contradicts the theology of the ancient Israelites, who's Scriptures tell of a very conditional covenant, and Israel being invaded and torn up when it was violated.

>> No.13553604

>>13553597
You’re retarded and a living meme.

>> No.13553617

>>13553598
I said to repeat the arguments the peer reviewers had for it being bad. Then we can talk about said arguments.

you aren't going to measure the distance from the sun and earth, but if you're going to post about it you can say why people think it's x distance, what the reason and evidence behind it is. That is what im asking you to do, cite the exact arguments the peer reviewers have with the study, or refrain from posting.

I explained the basic idea of the study so you can do the same for the criticisms.

>> No.13553618

>>13553597
People weren’t civilized until the early 1900s so that level of dialogue didn’t happen. Jews were also barbaric until recently, so they weren’t sjws. They were money launderers and cretins. So yes it’s possible that it’s irrational in the sense people were impulsive and exiling groups of people from society wasn’t uncommon.

>> No.13553629

>>13553589
He gets promotion from msm because he's fucking cartoonish.

>> No.13553635

>>13553629
He thinks they’re genuinely interested in him too. He acted like a high school girl getting asked on a date when he talked about it on his podcast.

>> No.13553801

>>13553334
Jews have been mixed beyond recognition since.

>> No.13553807

>>13553617
>Evolutionary anthropologist Keith Hunley, writing for the Journal of Anthropological Research, described the book's thesis as interesting, but said the list of behavioral adaptations supposedly favored by agricultural lifeways was "bizarre". Per Hunley, the authors "provide no evidence whatsoever that there is any genetic basis to the specific behaviors in their list." Hunley specificly critisizes the last chapter on Ashkenazim for being based on shoddy or fabricated data, and for failing to mention the human suffering caused by pseudoscientific racism. Hunley says the book "fails utterly" to meet the stringent scientific standards of behavioral genetic research.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/25608265?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
Happy now? You could have just believed me

>> No.13553816

>>13553515
>the people inhabiting western europe which is what to be 'white' actually means

Source?

>> No.13554106

>>13553093
Why are people so against humans actually uniting instead of being ooga booga tribal boogas on a global scale which is apparently only bad when Africans do it but when you do it systematically it's fine? I agree that under capitalism it would be shit (as many things are and would be) but unity should be the ultimate, noble goal. We should all be rallying to fight climate change yet we're not. We should rally to eliminate capitalism but we're not.

>> No.13554117

>>13553416
Define "liberal," burgoid. If it's anything other than "capitalist cuckold" then you're wrong and an idiot. Your grouping seems to be around "leftists" but the problem is that you're a stupid American and like all Americans ruin any political conversation with your idiotic definitions and ignorance.

>> No.13554139

>>13553385
MacDonald fell for the jewish hydra meme he only look for jews to tie whatever movements he doesn't like to some kind of destructive complot that somehow benefit the jews. Hell he even said himself that he wrote those books because of the great replacement of white by immigrants or whatever he called it, yet this is at odd with his theory since the muslim and blacks being brought in are more dangerous to the jews.

>> No.13554144

>>13553597
>what is middle man minority

>> No.13554185
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13554185

>> No.13554293

>>13554185
Even if the tweets weren't false(lol) there's only a couple of them here who do the "I'm white but actually no I'm a jew"

>> No.13555076

>>13553807
that is not an argument he just calls it bizarre and unfounded without elaborating