What exactly is late capitalism?

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Anonymous Sat Jul 27 17:48:24 2019 No.13539878 [Reply] [Original]

What exactly is late capitalism?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 17:48:51 2019 No.13539883 Not this thread again.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 17:49:44 2019 No.13539889 >>13539878 shops that stay open after 12

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 17:49:47 2019 No.13539890 The opposite of earlycommunism.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 17:51:36 2019 No.13539900 File: 50 KB, 657x527, 1564160531892.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] It's Capitalism that lasts over marxistst failed doomsday predictions. Basically it's one large cope.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 17:52:22 2019 No.13539908 >>13539878 A marxist buzzword popular with tweens

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 17:52:51 2019 No.13539909 Now

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 17:55:18 2019 No.13539922 >>13539878 >r-revolution any day now right guys?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 17:55:24 2019 No.13539923 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-S-GZU2cYY i am pretty sure that's nothing and that it will get it even worse in the coming future. i think we are in early-late capitalism

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 17:56:02 2019 No.13539928 It's just capitalism after many years, so larger corporations have eaten the smaller ones. Late-late capitalism is when corporations become nations.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 17:58:06 2019 No.13539944 >>13539878 Just a way for leftists to say "g-guys craptalism i-is ending! a-any time now our revolution will start...". It'll never happen of course. Communism is inherently wrong, it's simply a shit tier economic theory.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 17:59:49 2019 No.13539952 >>13539928 But this already happened with the east india company

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:01:13 2019 No.13539962 >>13539923 think about how schizophrenic the average person has become within capitalism and cyberspace. People are buying used bath-water because of a 3d girl imitating 2d girls.

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:04:30 2019 No.13539984

"A progressive burger company"

"Let's elect Trump!"

"Save the environment by buying out coffee! We donate 2 cents to environmental causes for every cup!"

"This gadget puts your socks on for you, so you don't have to!"

"This plate connects to wifi, alerting you when your food has gone cold!"

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:09:38 2019 No.13540010

Real answer is an economics of capitalism that begins to approach either
1: Complete economic collapse and the destruction of the capitalist system, or
2: Capitalism advancing far enough to transform into another economic model (usually supposed to be some Marxist variant).
The meme definition used by people who think late stage capitalism is “capitalism/capitalists I don’t like?” Look at >>13539984

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:11:56 2019 No.13540024 >>13539984 You haven't read Marx.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:13:48 2019 No.13540041 >>13540010 You're wrong . I was pointing out examples not providing a definition. The point is that capitalism remains unable to solve fundamental problems

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:15:46 2019 No.13540051 >>13539878 "late capitalism" is the lefty version of "Cultural Marxism"So pretty much "anything I dont like"

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:18:37 2019 No.13540067 >>13539878 when your amazon order takes an extra day to arrive

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:18:50 2019 No.13540071 >>13540041 >fundamental problems Killing kikes and negroes?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:19:09 2019 No.13540074 >>13540041 Read Marx, you are wrong.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:20:07 2019 No.13540076 >>13540074 No you are. Marx is an asshat.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:20:28 2019 No.13540079 >>13540041 >The point is that capitalism remains unable to solve fundamental problems Yes, it is unable to address the Jewish question or the non-white question.

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:21:14 2019 No.13540082

>>13539878
Capital and the market not as an economic system but as a way of life.
The concept of the market economy has transcended mere economical theories and has instead intruded into our way of life.
We are no longer free and we are built and constructed to consume, we simply buy what we are told, and if we are aware of the nature of commercials and the system of the capital, we are attracted to a certain way of consuming that is "light consuming"
People mean less and less, and individualism is crushed more and more, as capital and the market economy permeates our very existance, you are neither encouraged or taught to think critically of the society you live in, or of the system we are under, and soon you forget that we are not bound to this material plane, a living cog in the great body of the system.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:21:30 2019 No.13540084 >>13540076 >Marx is an asshat. Just admit that you haven't read him and don't know what you are talking about.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:22:31 2019 No.13540090 >>13540082 No, that isn't correct. You clearly haven't read Marx.

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:23:39 2019 No.13540099

>>13540084
You can't seem to pick up on the point that capitalism keeps doing what it does, creating ever more ramified and rarified products while being unable to solve deeper problems like ecological collapse, universal healthcare, and the like, thus leading to its own self-undermining.

Stop idolizing Marx.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:24:23 2019 No.13540103 >>13539878 It's capitalism when corporations are starting to monopolize globally and swallowing each other up.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:24:53 2019 No.13540107 >>13540099 >capitalism keeps doing what it does If only there was a writer who figured out "what capitalism does", maybe you should read him? Spoiler, it's Marx.

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:27:55 2019 No.13540123
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>Untill the 1860's Marx thought an industrial crisis would cause a revolution in France
It never did and the crisis never occurred and Marx was subjected to ridicule.
>Marx thought the recession in 1857 would lead to a revolution
It never did.
>Engels thought a crisis would lead a revolution in England by 1886
A revolution never happened and the economy in Britian recovered by 1888.
>Marx thought Capitalism had the tendency to keep real wages at a subsistence level
In reality, real wages have gone up in the long run.
>Marx thought workers' plight would lead to Communism
In reality, modern day plight of workers has not led to a renewed interest in Communism

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:28:07 2019 No.13540124 >>13540103 That isn't really true, please read Marx before commenting on the subject.

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:28:43 2019 No.13540128
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>>13540084
I have to admit I despise "Marxists" with all of my heart. Marx himself is alright and I consider him a great thinker, but Marxist? My god! The internet ones - most of whom never read Marx - should be fucking hanged. I even am taking part in a sort of political "socialist" organization. Sadly only online right now, but i'm working to change that. I can assure you I will never use the m-word. Just to be safe.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:29:06 2019 No.13540130 >>13540107 >relying on someone who was active more than a hundred years ago to interpret vastly different political and technological circumstances

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:29:45 2019 No.13540133 >>13540124 It's true because it was once revealed to me in a dream

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:31:51 2019 No.13540143

>>13540010
Is there any indication that capitalism is going to collapse or transform? It seems to just be going along as it has been for hundreds of years. the financial and governmental spheres undergo all sorts of changes but the basic system of capitalists and proles has not changed.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:37:12 2019 No.13540165 >>13540076 >Marx is an asshat he can get very cringe at times but you're brainwashed by lame youtubers if you really think this

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:43:03 2019 No.13540195
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>>13540123
desu my only problem with marx is that he >implied that capitalists won't do anything to prevent a revolution. he assumed that bourgies are just some brainless retards that drive expensive horses. having no workers is the most profit damaging thing that could happen (until robots replace humans).
look now no one is willing to give up anything and everyone is an obedient bitch more than happy to work a 9-5 job so they can buy the new iPhone and drink Starbucks and the third world is full of self hatred and west worship.
idk i can't see the future and there might be a huge conflict that causes a collapse idk

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:47:04 2019 No.13540217 >>13540143 I don’t know enough to comment or predict, I’m just relating my interpretation of the term. I suppose people who use the term liberally would be the ones to ask

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:47:04 2019 No.13540218

>>13540099
/lit/tards read so little they see reading an author as idolizing him

>>13540130
the circumstances are the same in their essence. they're only different for clueless retards who only focus on appearances or accidental features.
maybe read hegel before attempting to think about stuff. he'll teach you how to look at the essential features of things to which our immediate experience blind us.

>>13540143
two world wars, the 70s shitstorm, 2008 with the upcoming second act. and that's just 100 years. if we don't soon luck into another technological revolution like the one that started in the 60s then it's over because the growth is getting shittier and shittier

>>13540195
>desu my only problem with marx is that he >implied that capitalists won't do anything to prevent a revolution. he assumed that bourgies are just some brainless retards that drive expensive horses.
incorrect. sounds like some socdem retards who think they can trick the ruling class by

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:48:13 2019 No.13540221 >>13540218 >two world wars, the 70s shitstorm, 2008 with the upcoming second act. and that's just 100 years none of those events did anything at all to capitalism, it just kept going. Wars have always existed as have economic collapses

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:50:03 2019 No.13540231

>>13540218
In response to your third point, I think you’re being shortsighted. Booms and busts have a much longer history than the one you mentioned. Even a return to medieval style growth (<10% economic growth/century iirc) doesn’t mean the end of capitalism, it just means the end of hyper growth.

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:51:44 2019 No.13540244

>>13540195
>>13540218
socdem retards who think they can trick the ruling class by voting them out of power*
the fact that the bougies are not fucking retards is the reason why Marx held that the class party and dictatorship of the proletariat will be necessary. if he thought they won't do anything then he would have the same opinion on the revolution as anarchists or the communization guys

>>13540221
>none of those events did anything at all to capitalism
only if by "anything" you mean that it hasn't completely collapsed yet
>Wars have always existed as have economic collapses
as have revolutions and transformations in the mode of production

>>13540231
capitalism can't exist with <10% economic growth per century. are you insane?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:53:36 2019 No.13540252 >>13539923 Is vito /ourguy/?

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:54:41 2019 No.13540256

>>13540244
Sure it can exist. Razor thin margins maybe, but there’s no bottom limit to growth under which capitalism begins to automatically fail. There’s even an emerging field of accounting for capitalism under negative growth conditions (usually related to population loss)

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 18:55:09 2019 No.13540258 >>13539878 Neoliberalism that becomes Neofeudalism.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 19:00:27 2019 No.13540280 File: 483 KB, 1440x3315, ZomboDroid 27072019190009.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13540244 >only if by "anything" you mean that it hasn't completely collapsed yet NONONONONO MARXIST BROS WILL THE COLLAPSE EVER HAPPEN?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 19:01:12 2019 No.13540283 this is >>13539120 and that's a good things.

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 19:04:02 2019 No.13540294
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>>13540256
razor thin margins would lead to accelerated centralization of capital and therefore accelerated end of capitalism

>>13540280
japan was just the first one I found but you get the gist

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 19:05:29 2019 No.13540303 >>13540244 >only if by "anything" you mean that it hasn't completely collapsed yet Almost the entire world is still capitalist and is wealthier than ever before. Again tell me why you think it's going to collapse

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 19:05:46 2019 No.13540307

>>13540218
>>13540244
>incorrect. sounds like some socdem retards who think they can trick the ruling class by voting them out of power* the fact that the bougies are not fucking retards is the reason why Marx held that the class party and dictatorship of the proletariat will be necessary. if he thought they won't do anything then he would have the same opinion on the revolution as anarchists or the communization guys
i am not an anti-revolution socdem i just have no hope, social democracy and welfare are actually one of the ways capitalists try to prevent revolutions because no workers = no profit
https://www.youtube.co/watch?v=q2gO4DKVpa8
bourgies control ideology, pop culture, intellect, science, dissidence, populism and everything and it's illegal to stop them. no one is willing to listen to some random dissident who needs 80 pages of paragraphs to explain his position, "socialism doesn't work because you run out of money" is much more appealing. now have everyone believe that evil leftists are stealing their labor and add a sprinkle of shitty morals (ex: he "earned" it, don't hate him because he is better than you, etc) and you have a perfect recipe for class-cuckery.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 19:07:01 2019 No.13540313 >>13540294 >and therefore accelerated end of capitalism Are you going to even attempt to defend this 'and therefore'? Maybe it just leads to governments reallocating wealth a bit, or some other scenario, you have no idea.

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Sat Jul 27 19:09:35 2019 No.13540324 File: 122 KB, 960x720, 266669F0-C375-437D-89C5-A05819AD76F0.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13539878 Concept to describe this stage. The one that will collapse like a burning barn. Coined by Ernest Mandel, Marxist

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Sat Jul 27 19:10:41 2019 No.13540330 File: 295 KB, 643x1050, EF090D90-F36D-46EF-8022-21AAEFFF2256.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13540324 ‘is book, if you like to read further.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 19:11:37 2019 No.13540336 >>13540303 >>13540313 it's described in Marx

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 19:13:34 2019 No.13540344 >>13540336 Being as you're posting in a thread about the subject you could maybe elaborate on what it is that Marx said that makes his predictions necessarily true. What was the logic behind the prediction?

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 19:17:38 2019 No.13540370

>>13540294
>Japan GDP growth
Lol you're such a disingenuous marxist. the high GDP growth in the 50's was due to the post war boom. In the 1980's Japan engaged in financial deregulation. In the late 90's fiscal stimulus was abandoned for austerity. I love how you chose a graph that started in the 50's with high GDP growth due to the post war boom. I guess Marxists always need to lie to prove their points.

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 19:23:46 2019 No.13540391

>>13540344
I can only answer questions that have very short answers. I'm not going to write an essay for you. If you're interested then read Marx.

>>13540313
>Maybe it just leads to governments reallocating wealth a bit
But there are razor thin margins, which favours large capitals. There won't be a redistribution into small capitals.

>>13540370
>the high GDP growth in the 50's was due to the post war boom.
yes, that's how capitalism deals with low growth and low profit rates. not very stable now, is it.

>I love how you chose a graph that started in the 50's with high GDP growth due to the post war boom.
I chose the first graph of gdp growth i was able to find you stupid conspiracy nut.

marxists are first to say that booms in growth are caused by mass destruction of capital. you would know that if you were even superficially familiar with them. the point is that capitalism can't sustain growth for shit, and this will lead to another similar catastrophe. and this time at the other end of this catastrophe there will be another 1917, not another 1945 where there was stalin to ensure that no communist revolution would happen.

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 19:30:26 2019 No.13540418
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>>13540391
>low profit rates
HAHAHAH. Another Marxist myth.
>you stupid conspiracy nut.
LOL, says the one who thinks capitalists cause wars to make up for low profit rates.
>the point is that capitalism can't sustain growth for shit
Yes it can. It's been growing for hundreds of years and is still continuing.
>and this will lead to another similar catastrophe.
Oh look it's another doomsday prophecy that will turn out to be false. Marx had several doomsday predictions and they were all false.
>and this time at the other end of this catastrophe there will be another 1917
You sound like Marx saying "t-the revolution will happen any day now!" Marx was laughed at by his Socialist peers for his embarrassingly inaccurate predictions.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 19:31:19 2019 No.13540421 >>13540391 >I can only answer questions that have very short answers. I'm not going to write an essay for you. If you're interested then read Marx. you're not going to defend your position in other words. What are you even doing on this board?

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 19:44:19 2019 No.13540475

>>13540418
>LOL, says the one who thinks capitalists cause wars to make up for low profit rates.
capital causes capitalists to cause wars. lowering profit rates means increasing competition means increased risk of eruption into global war
>Yes it can. It's been growing for hundreds of years and is still continuing.
you're just being an obtuse retard at this point

>>13540421
if you think you can defend every position in a fucking 4chan post then you must have not read much of anything
"HURR DURR YOU CAN'T EVEN DEFEND THE EPISTEMIC READING OF TRANSCENDENTAL IDEALISM IN A 4CHAN POST WHY R U EVEN ANSWERING SIMPLE QUESTIONS ABOUT KANT LOSER"

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 19:47:42 2019 No.13540494 >>13540475 People defend Kant in detail here all the time, if you're just going to assert shit without defending it fuck off to twitter, your hysterical sarcasmposting indicates that's where you belong anyway.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 19:49:46 2019 No.13540507 >>13540143 >Is there any indication that capitalism is going to collapse or transform? capitalism can't deal with externalities, so an enviromental collapse is the most logical end. also notice how burgers denies climate change

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 19:52:25 2019 No.13540518 >>13540494 lmao fuck off you stupid cuck I'm staying here

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 19:53:32 2019 No.13540524

>>13540475
>capital causes capitalists to cause wars
You seem like you think WWII was caused by le bourgeoisie. I'm assuming you don't know about the invasion of Poland.
>lowering profit rates means increasing competition means increased risk of eruption into global war
There aren't lowering profit rates. It's just another Marxist myth.
>you're just being an obtuse retard at this point
Okay sweetie.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 19:54:25 2019 No.13540531 >>13539878 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa23xIVfn30

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 19:55:45 2019 No.13540536 >>13540524 >You seem like you think WWII was caused by le bourgeoisie. I'm assuming you don't know about the invasion of Poland. yes, everything was going fine and then hitler just decided to invade poland because he was evil. good job

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 19:57:37 2019 No.13540547 >>13539878 A term invented by Werner Sombart, it has little real analytic meaning outside his typology of development dynamics

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 19:58:56 2019 No.13540556 >>13540536 >everything was going fine and then hitler just decided to invade poland because he was evil Ever heard of Lebensraum or the holocaust?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 20:00:19 2019 No.13540569 >>13540556 >hitler was just evil, outside of that everything was perfect

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 20:02:02 2019 No.13540579 >>13540556 sure http://www.sinistra.net/lib/upt/comlef/cosi/cosiicebie.html

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 20:02:03 2019 No.13540580 File: 613 KB, 986x1454, Screenshot_20190709-110619_cropped.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13540569 I absolutely adore your ignorance and revisionism.

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 20:06:33 2019 No.13540597
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>>13540579
>Even though our Bourgeois' or reformists recognise that Imperialist wars are caused though conflicts of interests, they fall well short of arriving at an understanding of capitalism.
OH NONONONO. Is imperialism done the USSR also done by the bourgeoisie?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 20:09:07 2019 No.13540610 >>13540597 no, it's done by a capitalist state

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 20:12:31 2019 No.13540622 File: 147 KB, 645x729, 1561044419737.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13540610 So the Winter War, The Afghanistan War and the establishment of satellite states in the Eastern Bloc was all done by le ebil bourgeoisie?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 20:12:47 2019 No.13540623 >>13539922 just gonna go to starbucks and subscribe to netflix while i wait for the revolution tee hee time to update my twitter

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 20:16:34 2019 No.13540642 >>13540622 I already said it wasn't the bourgeoisie u dumb fuck. Capital doesn't have to be personified in the capitalist class. I'm going to bed soon, you have 8 hours to learn to read if you want to try again when I wake up.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 20:17:41 2019 No.13540647 File: 15 KB, 320x240, red dawn.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13540622 >Those evil Afghan capitalist swine!

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 20:19:36 2019 No.13540654
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>>13540642
Why is Marxism so hard to grasp when it was meant to be transmitted seamlessly to the unwashed masses?
Always read this, read that, you don't understand Marx this, labor theory of value that, etc. etc. etc.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 20:24:58 2019 No.13540672 >>13540654 it's actually easy when one is enthusiastic about it and willing to learn. "read this, read that" is mostly just "read this", and the one who's bitching about it never actually reads it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 20:33:38 2019 No.13540711 >>13540518 And you will continue to be called a dumbass when you won't defend your positions

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 20:37:24 2019 No.13540725 >>13540672 So it's a cult. That makes much more sense.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 20:39:22 2019 No.13540734 >>13539878 Me

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 20:41:22 2019 No.13540754 File: 321 KB, 480x480, gX6JioXG.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13539878 >capitalism >late lol

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 20:46:19 2019 No.13540788 >>13540647 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet–Afghan_War >>13540642 >hurrr just read

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 20:46:36 2019 No.13540790 >capitalism When we have fiat currency, artifical interest rates, state intervention in the economy. What a bunch of retards

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 20:49:24 2019 No.13540810 File: 26 KB, 301x487, 7DCB876E-F22D-4489-807F-2CB06521F401.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13539878 What comes after Marxism.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 20:52:16 2019 No.13540830 >>13540790 >wanting no regulations and a deflationary gold standard backing currency retarded Austrian

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 20:53:20 2019 No.13540837 is capitalism sentient?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 22:19:09 2019 No.13541302 >>13540418 >his embarrassingly inaccurate predictions. which of the predictions generated by the LTV have been empirically disconfirmed?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 22:27:28 2019 No.13541332 >>13541302 which have come true

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 22:29:34 2019 No.13541344 >>13540623 Isn’t Netflix dying though?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 22:31:19 2019 No.13541353 >>13539878 Today for the last 150 years.

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 22:35:58 2019 No.13541379

>>13541344
They put out (or more buy nowadays) one kino a year buried in dozens of absolutely mediocre to terrible shows.
The average rating for a Netflix original has plummeted over the last few years, which is why they got rid of their in built rating system.
Streaming peaked years ago, now every shit kicker local TV station and movie studio is working on a streaming service. I guarantee we end up paying more this way than for cable.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 22:39:29 2019 No.13541393 >>13541302 The LTV has been empirically disproven.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 22:46:25 2019 No.13541417 >>13541393 yeah, I asked which predictions it generates have been empirically disproven

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 22:55:47 2019 No.13541447 >>13541417 >>13541332

Anonymous Sat Jul 27 23:05:49 2019 No.13541478

>>13539928
>>13539962
There's no such thing as capitalism in any society that has IP laws you god damn clowns. We live in a world that literally revolves around government-enforced monopolies and then idiots turn around and complain about those exact same monopolies destroying competition (look up the amount of money billion-dollar corps spend on IP; a government monopoly service lmao) calling it a product of capitalism.

What people call late capitalism is in fact late democracy.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 23:39:34 2019 No.13541595 >>13541478 read Weber you dipshit

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 23:41:22 2019 No.13541600 >>13541595 are you guys literally ever going to post an actual reply or just say 'read x'

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 23:45:28 2019 No.13541619 >>13539878 Politicized pedicures

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 23:54:33 2019 No.13541654 >>13539944 Imagine thinking a system that crashes every decade or so is efficient...

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 23:56:05 2019 No.13541662 >>13541654 it crashes because the banks and government are always doing ludicrous shit

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 27 23:58:00 2019 No.13541669 >>13541654 Imagine thinking a system where you always own nothing and owe your government from the day you are born is capitalism rather than slavery.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 00:12:59 2019 No.13541722 >>13541669 Holy shit, imagine thinking its only capitalism if everyone is a capitalist!

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 00:17:38 2019 No.13541748 >>13541722 If people not being capitalist is no contradiction to capitalism then how could you ever have not-capitalism?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 00:43:07 2019 No.13541882 Marxist cope and tears

Anonymous Sun Jul 28 00:43:40 2019 No.13541885

>>13541748

You realize 'capitalist' never refered to people under capitalism, right? You are a capitalist if you have capital. You are in a capitalist state if the capitalists are also those who control the political scene. The rest of us are just labourers.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 00:45:16 2019 No.13541889 >>13541882 > Le corporate overlord, counting his billions while he posts on /lit/ a saturday night

Anonymous Sun Jul 28 00:47:14 2019 No.13541896

>>13541885
>those who control the political scene.
it's rather hard to identify who that actually is though isn't it. A lot of the laws that are passed and actions taken by the government don't seem to have anything to do with aiding capitalists.

It seems more reasonable to see capitalism as one vector of power asserting itself among others.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 00:48:52 2019 No.13541912 >>13541896 >it's rather hard to identify who that actually is though Mate, just look for temples to Moloch.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 00:50:12 2019 No.13541916 >>13541912 if you speak I will listen

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 00:50:36 2019 No.13541919 >>13541896 Well, yeah, thats because late capitalism is the best system at reinventing itself to defeat its contradictions (or more accurately, to repress them temporarily).

Anonymous Sun Jul 28 00:51:56 2019 No.13541929
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>>13539952
Wasn't EIC kinda nationalized and broken up? This would be permanent.

>>13539944
Late stage capitalism isn't about the incoming revolution brainlet, but about the growing contradictions within capitalism

Anonymous Sun Jul 28 00:57:59 2019 No.13541956

>>13539878
I am a complete pleb so take what I say with a grain of salt, but read Capitalist Realism. It doesn't explicitly mention late capitalism but it mentions a lot of the problems with the current stage of capitalism. The constant need to upskill and gain new qualifications, the infiltration of capitalism into the education system. It's great but a depressing read.

Anonymous Sun Jul 28 00:58:47 2019 No.13541959

>>13541885
Fair enough, I have a layman's understanding of philosophy so frankly most of my vocabulary is probably all sorts of fucked. I appreciate your patience.

I do find the definition odd though, as wouldn't that make all kings and emperors capitalists? The Mises guys would probably argue a living human not having capital is impossible because at bare minimum you have your mind and the products thereof.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 00:59:10 2019 No.13541961 >>13540654 >it was meant to be transmitted seamlessly to the unwashed masses? No it wasn't, the propaganda made was always for workers to rise up against capitalists coz they are bad, but never appealed to grand theory.

Anonymous Sun Jul 28 01:00:38 2019 No.13541969

>>13541919
I think it's reductive to focus on capitalism to the exclusion of the dramatic political and technological changes that have occurred in the past few centuries. I never understood that about Marx, he even said at one point that the superstructure can sometimes control the flow of history more than the economic situation, which seems like it contradicts his entire thesis.

Capitalism is effected and acted on in very different ways in Russia, Poland, the US, and Sweden.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 01:02:28 2019 No.13541978 >>13541959 >all kings and emperors capitalists? They weren't capitalists per se since they basically are the state protecting their assets or land. Capitalists have property that they do not use but owned, which ownership is guaranteed by the state.

Anonymous Sun Jul 28 01:07:31 2019 No.13541994

>>13539984
1st point meh, 2nd point orange man bad, 3rd point great, 4th-5th points are related to LSC but symptoms

>>13540076
I hate communism but from what I've been reading lately, Marx was prescient and I'm definitely going to read some of his work. I wouldn't rule him out so quickly.

>>13540082
The consuming thing is connected but came more from Edward Bernays. I actually think current capitalism is all about the individual and keeps us divided.

>>13540128
Based Chad. Anyone calling themselves a Marxist unironically is a fag

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 01:09:08 2019 No.13542005 >>13540195 You are getting there. The real monster he underestimated was the State.

Anonymous Sun Jul 28 01:21:27 2019 No.13542051

>>13541959

In a very broad manner, yes. Capitalists have only perfected and instrumentalized the system of class exploitation thatbhas been with us ever since there was an uneven division of labour. Kings and Emperors were proto-capitalists without the economic system in place to reinforce their position.

Anonymous Sun Jul 28 01:27:57 2019 No.13542068

>>13541978
Well, in appreciation for your posts I'll admit I was being disingenuous when I claimed capitalism excludes state-slavery (or other slavery). I find it interesting that both sides of economic philosophy seem to criticize the state as evil and mainly disagree on who to blame.

Anonymous Sun Jul 28 01:28:03 2019 No.13542069

>>13541969

The marxist analysis of capitalism suggest that all the adjacent dramatic political changes have only happened in accordance with capitalism.

And yes, countries that have specifically attempted to go past capitalism are not good exemples of capitalist countries.

Anonymous Sun Jul 28 01:33:04 2019 No.13542087

>>13540195

Depends. Bourgeoisie doesnt apply well to current class divisions. The ones in position to fight are the 0.01%, the Bezos of this world who can afford their hidden islands. Upper middle class today doesnt understand its own interest enough nowadays to make a cohesive push for anything. But they will be pandered to, so there's a good chance that the future will be walled-off communities with AR-15 wielding guards at the entrance and more golf courses than social services.

Anonymous Sun Jul 28 01:35:49 2019 No.13542097

>>13542069
Marx literally has a quote about that, im not trying to argue in bad faith here, I remember him saying that specifically because it made me confused.

And I mentioned those 4 countries because they are all explicitly capitalist right now, but they are very different because of factors not related to economics, but their geopolitical situation.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 01:39:02 2019 No.13542108 >>13542097 Thats the point of 'materialism'. Economy subsume geopolitics.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 01:40:25 2019 No.13542114 >>13542108 I know that is the point anon, that's why the quotation made me confused.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 01:44:30 2019 No.13542128 File: 3.73 MB, 346x244, tenor (23).gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13539889

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 01:46:02 2019 No.13542131 >>13542128 havent seen this gif in ages, it used to be posted constantly

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 04:14:02 2019 No.13542395 File: 35 KB, 615x410, instructive.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13539878 I believe that this image will help you to understand, without any verbal explanation required.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 04:58:33 2019 No.13542494 >>13540123 >Marx thought Capitalism had the tendency to keep real wages at a subsistence leve Marx actually says that wages will likely rise, but be smaller in relation to the wealthy at the top. Which he was right about.

Anonymous Sun Jul 28 05:35:44 2019 No.13542582

>>13540788
>hurrr just read
I told him to properly read THE POST HE WAS RESPONDING TO because it already answered his question. But I guess /lit/tards are so allergic to the word "read" that they discard any context once they encounter it.

>>13541748
If production of use values ceased to also be a production of exchange-value and of capital.

>>13542494
this
>To say that "the worker has an interest in the rapid growth of capital", means only this: that the more speedily the worker augments the wealth of the capitalist, the larger will be the crumbs which fall to him, the greater will be the number of workers than can be called into existence, the more can the mass of slaves dependent upon capital be increased.

Anonymous Sun Jul 28 08:27:16 2019 No.13543077
File: 155 KB, 1081x1036, DC9dLPWXUAAQAFY24234.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>13542087
yes if people united and revolted they can take every rich person in a month, the problem is IF the people united and revolted. no one is willing to revolt because they have a lot more than chains to lose and class consciousness is basically 0. also the fact the porkies also control how ideologies are displayed makes things even worse

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 08:34:13 2019 No.13543108 >>13543077 what is this facial expression supposed to convey?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 08:39:59 2019 No.13543120 >>13543077 property's theft

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 08:40:49 2019 No.13543123 >>13539900 Nice, or maybe it's the last stage of Capitalism before the collapse?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 08:40:58 2019 No.13543124 >>13540079 Imagine poltards attempting to micromanage totalitarian ancapistan. It may be the only thing worse than SJWs and STEMshits.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 08:44:41 2019 No.13543134 >>13541478 >NOT REAL CAPITALISM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 08:46:47 2019 No.13543140 >>13543124 You really should read Marx.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 08:47:49 2019 No.13543144 >>13540654 >when it was meant to be transmitted seamlessly to the unwashed masses? It wasn't, read Marx.

Anonymous Sun Jul 28 08:51:16 2019 No.13543158

>>13540580
Hitler is truly the most based politician to ever live, granted he was exaggerating a bit, but can you even IMAGINE a politician today who says "I will eradicated X" and when in office he ACTUALLY gives it an honest try?
For politician it is so easy to make empty promises to gain votes, but Hitler wasn't like that, he didn't exploit anti-semitism for votes, he genuinely believed in what he said, what a great man.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 08:52:17 2019 No.13543160 >>13540475 You really should read Marx before you give your opinion on such subjects and you clearly haven't done that.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 08:53:27 2019 No.13543165 >>13542087 >Bourgeoisie doesnt apply well to current class divisions. That's how I know you haven't read Marx.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 08:56:46 2019 No.13543173 >>13543108 proto-ahegao or >tfw you read capital vol 1

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 09:02:04 2019 No.13543191 why does marx take so long to get to the point?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 09:07:30 2019 No.13543216 >>13543191 Marx seems to take long to get to the point to ADHD internet children because ADHD internet children have zero patience.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 10:06:03 2019 No.13543453 >>13543191 Who do you think he learnt it from?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 10:22:55 2019 No.13543511 File: 8 KB, 225x225, 36346335.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13543453

Anonymous Sun Jul 28 10:30:49 2019 No.13543543

>>13539878
"Late" Capitalism is Marxist wishful thinking that the predicted collapse of and/or revolution against capitalism as predicted by historical materialism is about to happen any time now and therefore the stage of capitalism we are presently in is "Late" because it is almost over.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 10:34:11 2019 No.13543559 >>13543160 Dude you're such a faggot Either say what you want to say or quit being obnoxious. I bet twenty bucks you're just barking about Marx because you read the manifesto and got high on feeling superior.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 10:45:16 2019 No.13543595 >>13540067 This is truly the violence of capitalism.

Anonymous Sun Jul 28 13:20:42 2019 No.13544289

>>13543543
That might be true a long time ago but western marxists have given up on that a long time ago.
Adorno, Zizek, Jameson, and Fisher all have pessimism in common. There's a famous quote that "it is easier to imagine the end of the world than it is to imagine the end of capitalism".
Late capitalism is now seen more as the next stage itself, more than the predecessor to the next stage.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 13:33:33 2019 No.13544340 >>13543543 history will come to an end which is communism all it takes is a simple touch of a button or a word to go down the path of collapse

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 28 13:36:39 2019 No.13544358 >>13544340 Even contemporary marxists don't believe this speculative bullshit anymore

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