/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.13535048]

Has anyone here read the Wheel of Time? It's on all the recommended lists for fantasy. But I don't think anyone actually reads this thing.

If you have, what were your favorite characters? And how do you feel about the power dynamics of men and women relationships. That seemed to be a huge theme throughout the books. Men and women trading power back and forth. Sometimes women trading power with other women, and men with other men. In fact, this whole book was just one big S&M fantasy.

[Anonymous No.13535053]

It's impossible to get into these books in the year 2019. There's like a gajillion of them and they heavily depend on you having read from the beginning to understand the plot. It's like One Piece, if you didn't get on the bandwagon at the beginning then you need to be autistically committed to catching up

[Anonymous No.13535103]

>>13535053
So are you a Perrin guy, or a Mat guy? I was Perrin all the way at first. But Mat really grew on me during the last few books.

Just kidding. The books aren't that hard to ingest. I finished them all in less than 2 months via audiobook. According to my files, I downloaded the first book June 6th.
But you're right, I was pretty autistic about it. I just didn't know how to stop. So I kept at it back to back to back.
Still, chapters average about 30 minutes. Some are shorter, some are longer. But you can get through a book in a few days, if you pace yourself. Maybe a week for the longer books. Basically just double my time for a more realistic estimate. Like 4 months.

[Anonymous No.13535377]

This series has been a hard sell for me. I can understand how people got in to it as an ongoing series, with a new entry every year or so. But now that it is complete even the fans don't make it sound all that good - I hear constantly about how the first X many books are good and then it drops in quality, has a few real stinkers, and is completed and has fan fiction for an ending. A "really cool magic system" that I hear about is not enough to make want to read 12 books.

[Anonymous No.13535554]

>>13535377
>I hear constantly about how the first X many books are good and then it drops in quality, has a few real stinkers, and is completed and has fan fiction for an ending
Look, I don't have the long term perspective. I took in all the books in a bit less than two months. And from my point of view, this isn't true. There are no real "stinkers" in the series. It's just that the first 6 books really pull you in. 1-3 are a nice light trilogy, and then 4-6 is a heavier trilogy. After that, the world keeps building and building. 7-11 aren't bad books, only that they don't feel like they have any real arc. Things just keep happening, because why not? You have all these pieces that need to be moved around. There are conflicts and resolutions and character growth and revelations, but it's not very focuses. These are all just things that need to happen. Still, they're nice. I wouldn't say that any books are a waste or filler.

However, when the new author comes in at book 12, it all comes into focus. Suddenly it feels like there an arc again. The writing quality improves. And oh man, the final book is such a huge payoff. It's like the opposite of the game of thrones final season. Where it manages to surprise you, while still making sense, and getting truly sentimental.
All said, I'll remember this world and these characters fondly.

I say that if you want to find the motivation, then just think of it like a trilogy. If after book 3, you still want more, then think about it like another trilogy. And if you still want more after book 6, then get ready for world building.

[Anonymous No.13535567]

>>13535554
Ok. I am really in the mood for a overly long epic fantasy. I will read the first 3 and see how I feel about it.

[Anonymous No.13535630]

>>13535567
This is odd. I'm not used to people actually taking my recommendations.
Do you have one to recommend? I'm feeling kind of empty over here. I went from listening 6-12 hours a day, to nothing, and now I don't know what to do with myself. I'm thinking of relistening to the books just to fill the void. But if you have another fantasy book, I might go with that instead.

[Anonymous No.13536054]

The only fantasy series I ever actually enjoyed reading.
It gets a little slow between books 8-11 but the way it is wrapped up made it worthwhile to me. I think Sanderson or whatever his name is was actually a better writer than Jordan, even though he got tossed in mid-series.

P.S.: Mat masterrace, Perrin is a basedboy

[Anonymous No.13536110]

>>13535630
Not who you're replying to, but the greatest fantasy series I've ever read is the Guardians of the Flame series by Joel Rosenberg. I first found a tattered copy of the first three books (all in one) in the back of a closet in an abandoned house in a rural community (back in 2005). I made a new spine out of cardboard and elecrtical.

The books were so good that I cried when it was over, and I didn't know what to do with myself for months. Unlikely you'll have the same reaction, but I believe you'll grow to love the characters. And those first three books? Rosenberg was never better. Fantastic writing.

[Anonymous No.13536352]

>>13535048
I read them. Nynaeve and Moirane were my favourites. I hated Mat but he became an amazing character after book 3. I liked these books because they're mad comfy, there's some interesting plot points and foreshadowing all over the series, the writing can be lyrical on occasion (as in, expressive and pretty) and the whole concept was interesting. Even the 2-3 slower books were fun, as they remained comfy and you still had your favourite characters to grind it out if it became too much of a slog, however I didn't have this problem. That said, a series like this isn't for everyone. The first book starts as a Lotr clone because that's what was getting published back then, then turns.to something else after the first quarter of it. The first three books could be considered a trilogy, in the sense that there's a necessary step with its conclusion, before we move on to bigger things, and the end of the first book has a finality to it, because Jordan didn't know if the 2nd one would get published. So you could read one to three books and decide if you want to keep up. Book 5 is amazing, book 6 is for some even better, books 7-8 deal with the same plot points more or less, book 9 deals with their aftermath and can feel kinda slow, book 11 is great and the final books are good despite Sanderson's best attempts at butchering dialogue and personalities alike. They also feature Jordan's writing here and there, and you can tell the difference. Still, great and rewarding ending to a good series with ups and downs.

[Anonymous No.13536551]

>>13536352
>Sanderson's best attempts at butchering dialogue and personalities alike
I don't think he butchered anyone. But if Nynaeve and Moiraine are are your favorites, then I can understand your disappointment. Sanderson avoided writing them. Moiraine returns, and she hardly does fuck all for the remainder of the story. btw, she should have returned much earlier. I know they had to go retrieve her, so all these events needed to happen before that event. But honestly, her absence felt way too long. She finally comes back, and then has nothing important to say. Nothing more to contribute, except her mere presence.

Nynaeve just sort of fades into the background. Becoming completely uninfluential after sending Lan out.
Aviendha starts off well enough at the beginning of Sanderson's books. But eventually transitions to background noise, once her important plot points are done with.
Also, this is for the audiobook listeners, but the reader forgot how to do Min's voice at the same time Sanderson took over. It's so weird. The series managed to keep the same readers for all the books. I forget their names, but there was a male voice for male PoV chapters, and a female force for female PoV chapters. The female voice actor suddenly started doing min in this high pitched voice. It was distracting.

Anyway, besides general neglect, I don't think he butchered anyone. I think perhaps he didn't know how to write female characters as well as Robert Jordan. I heard Jordan's wife was his editor. If that's the case, then I bet she really helped a lot in that regard.
But other than character neglect, my biggest criticism of Sanderson, is that he tended to over explain. He would make information clear, and then restate it in dumber terms, really hitting you over the head with the information.

[Anonymous No.13536574]

>>13536551
Forgot pic

[Anonymous No.13536978]

>>13536551
>Aviendha starts off well enough at the beginning of Sanderson's books
I disagree with this, Aviendha in particular was the first example that came to my mind when I said that. Mat was also off with his dialogue in the first book, but it was better in the final two.
>my biggest criticism of Sanderson, is that he tended to over explain
I agree with this, I felt the same as soon as I read the prologue to the Gathering Storm. Some particular instances were just boring. I agree with what you said about Nynaeve and Moiraine. I also didn't like how he'd add that Ashaman who was close to a red Aes Sedai? I don't remember the name but he got way too much focus for a filler character who had no importance to the plot. It just felt like he had to add his own character. Having said that, it's one of my favourite series and despite the final books, and some of the series flaws in general, I'm glad we got to see its ending. There were some strong passages, like Moiraine's rescue and Egwene's sacrifice. This second instance was almost entirely written by Jordan and I felt it was special, made me appreciate her character all over again. I feel like this series will be much better on a reread when you can appreciate the foreshadowing etc, but on the other hand it's a big time investment. Maybe a book here and there in between of other stuff, as they're not the most challenging read.

[Anonymous No.13537061]

I read the first two and I think it's childish.

[Anonymous No.13537175]

>>13536978
Pevara and Androl. I actually really liked those characters a lot. They had great chemistry, and they made the black tower storyline very interesting. I was worried the black tower was going to be a mess of a story, since it wasn't addressed until the end. But with those two, I was wholly invested. Their mirroring bond connection was super interesting too. Added well to the magic. I never even considered a bond would go that far.
And yeah, Egwene was amazing at the end.

Also, I really like Nynaeve too. Her strengths, her flaws, her attitude. She was a good character. Her constant bullying got a little annoying though. But that only made it more satisfying when Egwene dressed her down.
Egwene was never my favorite. She's like a Lisa Simpson type. She always thought she knew what was best. No fun allowed. She only cared about studying and doing what she thought was right. But I did respect her. From the beginning to the end, she was always determined to forge her own path. She wasn't tied to fate. She just put herself in the right places, with the right people, in order to get what she wanted out of life.

But I can't help but wonder if Egwene was actually Ta'veren. Perhaps on a level more subtle than others, as to go unnoticed. She always seemed to make people bend to her will. On one hand it seems like pure cunning. And perhaps her amazing feats were meant to parallel the Ta'veren's characters in a manner that shows how strong she is on her own. But on the other hand, there's that scene when Rand's Ta'veren force is so strong, it completely disables the Aes Sedai sitters from speaking, while Egwene manages to keep her head, resisting Rand. Was her own innate will really THAT strong compared to her fellow Aes Sedai?

[Anonymous No.13537453]

>>13537175
Yeah exactly, Egwene wanted to be the best student in class which at first was whatever, farm girl discovers the world and wants to learn, but after getting a position of power I disliked her most of the time. Still, her interactions with Verin and of course the finale of her arc were amazing. Can't really hate her.
I feel like everyone from the two rivers party was ta'veren just by being close to Rand. Not as strong or anything but it feels like they could excell at something and influence people as well. Or maybe they were like immune to Rand's influence as they grew up together, so they outshined other strong figures who couldn't resist or stand up to him.

[Anonymous No.13537758]

Ishamael was right

[Anonymous No.13537769]

got 3 books in before I just dropped it

[Anonymous No.13538126]

>>13537758
Father of lies! I deny you!