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/lit/ - Literature

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1348659 No.1348659 [Reply] [Original]

Hey /lit/. I come from /v/. The lights here are so bright...

Moving on:
Do you ever think that our beloved delicious vidya will be as rich a storytelling experience as your novels? Why/why not?

>> No.1348665

no because video games have to be playable or fun to be successful hth

>> No.1348666

Why not, once they figure out a way to keep the player from dying twenty times in the course of the story or tooling around with the npcs/environment

>> No.1348669
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1348669

The Mass Effect novels are complete horseshit, which is a shame because the game's fiction is so well constructed. I could read a series of novels written solely about from the Geth, Krogan or Salarians point of view.

>> No.1348667

>>1348666
well...because deep stories don't come from childish power fantasies that focus on combat?

>> No.1348671

Planescape ?

>> No.1348673

>>1348669
>the game's fiction is so well constructed.
yes it is certainly the faulkner of video games lol

>> No.1348675

>>1348671
what can change the nature of a man...? turns out some witch does it lol

>> No.1348685
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>>1348673
I can't tell if you are trolling, but yes the games fiction is very well constructed. It's obviously taking queues from other established fiction, Krogan being Klingon word for a "male Klingon."

The whole Genophage and "autonomy of development" that the Geth have are great concepts that will a good writer would make excellent reads.

>> No.1348688

>>1348685
with*

>> No.1348689
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1348689

>people talking about shitty rpg fantasy & sci fi
>MW2 is a neoconservative ludic text rich in narrative devices and political themes and commentary

HURP DURP SHEPERD

>> No.1348691

Well, I'm going to lean heavily on Espen Aarseth's (founder of the game studies institute of the university of Copenhagen)theories here.

Games can be placed on scales from a narrative to a ludic pole on 4 different aspects; the game world, the obects, the characters and events. The score on each scale is dictated by the degree of agency the game allows.

An example; Half life 2. On the game world-level, it scores close to the narrative pole - the world is static and rather linear.
On the objects-level it still scores close to the narrative pole, but with some degree of interaction (destruction, physics etc).
As for characters, they are a mix between deeper, rounder characters, and soulless "bots". This places the game somewhat in the middle between the narrative and ludic pole.
Finally, there are events; Half Life 2 has a few narratological "kernels", constituating events: these are events you HAVE to go through to finish the game. Still, the player has some agency over the non-constituate events (i.e. the discourse, how the story is told). An example would be; you cannot choose NOT to go through Ravenholm, but you could choose wether or not you kill everything or just run through it.

The point of this is; Half Life 2 scores closer to the narrative pole overall. For reference, Tolstoys War and Peace would score fully narrative on all levels (static, non-interactable world, objects, characters, and plotted events). Minecraft would be placed on the ludic pole on all levels; fully interactable world, object, completely flat characters, and no constituating events.

THIS MEANS: (to be continued)

>> No.1348693

>>1348691

Games can tell stories (more precicely, they can contain several potential narratives), but the storys success depends on the games level of narrative control. A game with loads of interaction = harder for a designer to tell a substantial story.


tl,dr: Games who wants to tell stories need to sacrifice player agency/interaction in favor of narrative controll. This according to modern ludo-narratological theory of games.

>> No.1348695

>>1348685
haha yeah you're right, it is over-simplified philosophy wrapped up in a scifi shooter, that doesn't sound like an adolescent power fantasy in the least, i'll let you get back to your hot pockets now

>> No.1348696

>>1348693
>>1348691
good post

>> No.1348697

>>1348696

Thank you, these theories aren't even published yet. Hopefully they might stop the annoying "narrativism vs lodology"-debate.

>> No.1348698
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1348698

>>1348695

>> No.1348701
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1348701

>>1348698

>> No.1348704
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1348704

>>1348701

>> No.1348705

Dude, check out Interactive Fiction- basically text adventures transcended to the level of high literature.

Also, graphic adventure games, like The Dig or RPGs like the aforementioned Planescape offer as rich a story-telling experience as a novel, if not in some cases richer.

Yawnfest FPSs are unlikely to offer such an experience. Even ones with a strong story focus, like Outlaws, still don't explain why you have to commit cowboy-genocide to further your aims.

>> No.1348707
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1348707

>>1348704

>> No.1348708
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1348708

>>1348705
>I'm sorry, I don't understand that verb
>I'm sorry, I don't understand that verb
>I'm sorry, I don't understand that verb
>I'm sorry, I don't understand that verb

>> No.1348709

>>1348707
alright my hotpockets are done we need to stop this.

>> No.1348711

>>1348705
>PGs like the aforementioned Planescape offer as rich a story-telling experience as a novel, if not in some cases richer.
have your tried reading something other than warhammer 40k and george rr martin?

>> No.1348715

>>1348708
It has advanced a bit since then. Most modern works of interactive fiction actively try to avoid the guess-the-verb game.

>>1348711
I've never play 40K and I've never even heard of 'george rr martin'. Presumably the stories in Planescape are better than either of them.

Seriously: check out Shade, Galatea or Photopia- you won't look back.

>> No.1348716

last good IF game I played was Alabaster

>> No.1348720

>>1348716
Weirdly enough that was the last IF game I played. I got the Lillith's consort ending, and I suspected the huntsman was really the king but I never replayed the game to find out.

>> No.1348738

>>1348720
this truly sounds like fiction on par with war and peace

>> No.1348742

>>1348738
Tolstoy was paid by the word and everyone knows it.

>> No.1348744

>>1348742
>"Man this is a lot of words...I'd rather play video game then read so many words..."

>> No.1348747

violet is also a good IF game

Chick digs jerks is good also if you can stomach it

>> No.1348749

>>1348715
You're on /lit/ and haven't heard of Martin? I'm calling bullshit. There's 2-3 Song of Ice and Fire threads a day on here.

>> No.1348750

>>1348744
No seriously, he was. I prefer Turgenev in any case.

>> No.1348754

I think video game stories are getting better. However, with only like a few exceptions, every video game protagonist I've played has been a massive Mary/Gary Stu.

>> No.1348755

>>1348667
So that rules out fiction

>> No.1348764

Of course video games is literature http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Art_games

>> No.1348769

Protip: Most books are mindless entertainment e.g. Harry Potter or Redwall

Some are pretentious hipster faggotry e.g. Finnegans wake or Gravitys Rainbow

Some are genuinely good and should be praised e.g. The Forever War

Most games are mindless entertainment e.g. Team Fortress 2 or Sins of a Solar Empire

Some are pretentious hipster faggotry e.g. Metal Gear Solid

Some are genuinely good games and should be praised e.g. Fatal Frame

Same goes for shows, movies, paintings, anime, sculptures, comics etc.

>> No.1348811

>>1348769
>Some are genuinely good and should be praised e.g. The Forever War
someone's mad that they have a 9th grade reading level

>> No.1348814 [DELETED] 

>>1348755
hmm...yase...this rules out the floating opera by john blarth and invisible man by ralph ellison...

>> No.1348821

>>1348755
hmm...yase...this rules out the floating opera by john barth and invisible man by ralph ellison...

>> No.1348824

>>1348769
>"Why should I listen to Bob Dylan when I can more closely relate to MC Chris's lyrics?"

>> No.1348841
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1348841

>>1348824
>>1348811

>> No.1348846

EVE has a pretty rich history, entirely player generated. I guess it could read as a novel, full of conflicts, betrayals, characters, espionage, action and lots of sleeping.

>> No.1348848

>>1348821
I have read The Floating Opera, The End of the Road and I'm currently reading The Sot-Weed Factor

>> No.1348857
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1348857

>>1348841
so fucking pissed of right now im shaking

>> No.1348861
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1348861

>>1348857

>> No.1348867
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1348867

>>1348861

>> No.1348871
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>>1348867

>> No.1348878 [DELETED] 
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1348878

"..."

>> No.1348881
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1348881

>>1348871
"..."

>> No.1348885
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1348885

>>1348881

>> No.1348888
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1348888

>>1348885

>> No.1348891
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>>1348888

>> No.1348895
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>>1348891

>> No.1348897
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>>1348891

>> No.1348898

>>1348895
impostor

>> No.1348902
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1348902

>>1348898

>> No.1348905
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>>1348902

>> No.1348910
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>>1348905

>> No.1348913
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1348913

>>1348910

>> No.1348918
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>>1348913

>> No.1348927
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>>1348913

>> No.1348940

>>1348918
The holy mountain is a terrible terrible film. It did have a couple of good sections though

>> No.1348948
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1348948

>>1348927

>> No.1348956
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>>1348940

>> No.1348963
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>>1348948

>> No.1348966
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>>1348963

>> No.1348984
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1348984

>This thread

>> No.1348991
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>>1348984
>Your mum