Should I just become Reformed?

[Anonymous No.13460717]

Started reading some reformed theology books and all I have to say is MY WORD, they are, dare I say, the most based books I have ever read, after reading I consider determinism the most logical theology in Christian thought. what do you guys think?

[Anonymous No.13460720]

>Protestantism
>based
Nice joke.

[Anonymous No.13460721]

Christianity is false

[Anonymous No.13460759]

>>13460720
>Idolatry
>based
Nice joke.

[Anonymous No.13460793]

>>13460717
I’m interested in Reformed as well, but I just need one thing cleared up for me. Where is the Scriptural evidence for Sola Scriptura?

[Anonymous No.13460803]

>>13460793
Haven't read any books on this but there is this nice article from Ligonier about this
>The Reformation principle of sola Scriptura has to do with the sufficiency of Scripture as our supreme authority in all spiritual matters. Sola Scriptura simply means that all truth necessary for our salvation and spiritual life is taught either explicitly or implicitly in Scripture. It is not a claim that all truth of every kind is found in Scripture. The most ardent defender of sola Scriptura will concede, for example, that Scripture has little or nothing to say about DNA structures, microbiology, the rules of Chinese grammar, or rocket science. This or that “scientific truth,” for example, may or may not be actually true, whether or not it can be supported by Scripture—but Scripture is a “more sure Word,” standing above all other truth in its authority and certainty. It is “more sure,” according to the apostle Peter, than the data we gather firsthand through our senses (2 Peter 1:19). Therefore, Scripture is the highest and supreme authority on any matter on which it speaks.
>But there are many important questions on which Scripture is silent. Sola Scriptura makes no claim to the contrary. Nor does sola Scriptura claim that everything Jesus or the apostles ever taught is preserved in Scripture. It only means that everything necessary, everything binding on our consciences, and everything God requires of us is given to us in Scripture (2 Peter 1:3).

[Anonymous No.13460808]

>>13460793
No direct quote, but:
When Jesus attacks the Pharisees, he says to them "is it not written" or something along those lines. He very specifically holds them accountable to what is in the OT, not some extra-scriptural teaching.
You also have to realize what the bible is: a collection of works that were divinely inspired. The orthodox Reformed belief is that God inspired the texts in the bible. The question you would have to answer, is what else do you believe to be equally inspired by God?

[Anonymous No.13460810]

>>13460759
Protestantism is indeed idolatry. Astute observation.

[Anonymous No.13460923]

>>13460808
> God inspired the Cathodox church to know what is canon and what is not, but they're wrong and retarded about everything else, and God's will is that real Christianity starts more than 1500 years after Christ

>>13460717
Just convert to Islam. Islam is like Calvinism but it makes more sense because it denies the incarnation, crucifixion, and resurrection, which are all things that do not make sense within the Reformed system.

If you're going to believe God predestines people to believe in him, (not to get into why God would create some people just so that they could go to hell) then what's the point of the crucifixion? It's just a show, exactly what the Quran states.

[Anonymous No.13460957]

>>13460923
>Islam is like Calvinism
doesn't everyone who dies and goes to hell all go to heaven in Islam, that is very different from reformed
>it denies the incarnation, crucifixion, and resurrection
It denies the thing I believe, I find it hard to believe in that, it's not that same IMO

[Anonymous No.13460962]

>>13460717
>getting your faith from some book

lel, you have to understand yourself to understand religion. This is easier said than done.

When I realized what religion I was, it was like a missing part of me suddenly clicked into place. I didn't decide on a religion, I just finished the puzzle. Everything I am, it all pointed to a single truth. And I didn't have to change a single thing once I realized what I was. I've been practicing my religion my whole life, I just had no idea what it meant.

My sexual attraction to the earth, my diet, my refusal to do certain actions...I was always what I was, but I didn't always know it.

[Anonymous No.13460979]

>>13460962
>worshipping the creature and creation rather than the creator
Cringe

[Anonymous No.13461002]

>>13460923
Wanna take a wild guess as to what else doesn't make sense?
>Also known as al-Isra and Laylat al-Miraj. Refers to the journey made by Muhammad from the Great Mosque in Mecca to the Temple Mount in Jerusalem on a winged horselike creature known as Buraq, followed by Muhammad's ascension into heaven. Briefly mentioned in the Quran ( 17:1 ) but known primarily through hadith. During the journey, Muhammad traveled with Gabriel to see everything in heaven and earth and then to the Temple in Jerusalem, where he met with Abraham , Moses , Jesus , and other prophets there and led them in prayer. Then Muhammad was shown a ladder, which he climbed with Gabriel up to the Gate of Watchers in heaven, where he met Jesus, John the Baptist , Joseph , Idris , Aaron , Moses, and Abraham. Muslims debate whether this journey was physical or mystical in nature. The result of the journey was the reduction of daily prayers to five from fifty after lengthy debate with Moses. Muhammad argued that fifty prayers per day would represent too great a hardship for believers. Daily prayers were instituted after this event. The Night Journey made Jerusalem the third holiest city in Islam and affirmed the continuity of Islam with Judaism and Christianity. It is celebrated annually on the twenty-seventh of Rajab and is a popular theme for Islamic artwork and legends.

[Anonymous No.13461013]

>>13460979
it's pasta
>>13460803
One really must accept that reading the records of revelations given to prophets, apostles, etc., can enlighten us as to the relationship of God with them, but never as to the relationship of God with us; one must accordingly conclude that whatever one thinks of revelation, without it we must be as wanderers in the dark and blind leaders of the blind.

[Anonymous No.13461024]

>>13460957
Hell isn't eternal in Islam, but Calvinism is definitely a proto-Islam. Protestants don't want to crucifixion to be real, that's why in every Baptist/Reformed church you go to it's nothing but "Yay Jesus" and patting yourself on the back.

They don't want Jesus to have actually suffered, and if he didn't it doesn't matter to them. The incarnation and Christ's sacrifice exists purely in the real of ideals for a Prot, they recoil at the thought of it actually having happened. You could spend your entire life in a Reformed church and never know that being crucified actually hurts quite a bit.

>>13461002
Muslims don't try to fit Christ's sacrifice with predestination. You might think Islam is bullshit, but at least they called their heresy by another name.

[Anonymous No.13461029]

>>13461024
and if he did*

exists purely in the realm*

[Anonymous No.13461088]

There's quite a few serious problems with any sort of Protestantism and there's not many good answers for them. One of the obvious ones is the canon of scripture. The historical evidence is overwhelming that the scriptures of the first Christian centuries was the Greek translation of the Old Testament known as the Septuagint, which includes the deuterocanonical books. It was well into the third century when Jewish rabbis started rejecting these books as part of the Jewish canon.

The noted protestant scholar J.N.D. Kelly affirms that the Christian church of the first two centuries accepted the deuterocanonicals as inspired, and the Baptist scholar Lee MacDonald affirms that there is no evidence to support the idea that the Jews had a different canon from the Septuagint between the period of the second century BC to the second century AD. The Septuagint was widely used by Jews throughout the Roman Empire, and it was also commonly used in Israel. This explains why its use spread with amazing rapidity among Christians even where the Hebrew texts were available. All the evidence points to the fact that the scriptures for the early Christians were "the same widely diverse body of scriptures that were considered inspired and therefore authoritative by Pharisaic Judaism or the various Jewish sects that existed before the separation of the church from the synagogue."

The recognition of the inspiration of the books that make up the NT and their acceptance on a par with the OT developed gradually. The Catholic church needed to sift through more than 50 Gospels, 22 Acts and many other writings during the gradual process of determining which Christian writings should be included in the NT. This process was completed by a decree of Pope St. Damasus I in 383, and confirmed at the councils of Hippo in 393 and Carthage in 397 and 419. Subsequently, the councils of Second Nicea in 787, Florence in 1441, and Trent in 1546 approved the identical canon of the bible that Catholics still recognize today as divinely inspired. The Church made this determination by drawing on sacred tradition.

1/2

[Anonymous No.13461090]

>>13461088
In the 16th century, Luther rejected the seven books that comprise the deuterocanonicals together with parts of Daniel and Esther. He did so because they contained passages that disagreed with his theology. Luther claimed that all matters of faith and practice were based on the bible alone, but the bible never gave Luther the authority to determine the books that belong in the bible. Luther also questioned "Whether James was in fact scripture" along with Hebrews, Jude, and Revelation. He referred to Jude as a "superfluous document" and claimed that Revelation "lacks everything that I hold as apostolic or prophetic."

In rejecting the canon of the bible that was accepted by Christians for over one thousand years, Luther wrenched sacred scripture from the certain foundation upon which they had been established, namely, the infallible authority of the Catholic church.

Since protestants teach that the bible alone is their ultimate authority, each book of the bible has a cloud of suspicion hanging over it because the bible does not have an infallible table of contents that lists the books that are divinely inspired and, therefore, should be included in it. If, as Luther taught and protestants believe, the Catholic church was wrong about the deuterocanonicals, isn't it reasonable to suspect from that perspective that the Catholic church made other errors? Perhaps other books should be rejected from the bible?

[Anonymous No.13461100]

Begome Babdisd! :DDDD

[Anonymous No.13461101]

One of the most damning things about Protestantism is the lack of the Eucharist. I don't think it's possible for a rational person to read the gospel and come to the conclusion that many of Jesus' followers abandoned him over something symbolic.

[Anonymous No.13461104]

>>13461101
Pretty sure protestants do the Eucharist, we just call it communion and don't believe that it's the literal blood and flesh as explained by science and observation

[Anonymous No.13461110]

>>13461088
>>13461090
Literally no one believe this

[Anonymous No.13461113]

Calvinism is the final redpill

[Anonymous No.13461119]

>>13461104
If you don't believe it's a the literal blood and flesh then you're not talking about the Eucharist, but a symbol. To believe it was meant to be symbolic is irrational.

[Anonymous No.13461125]

>>13461110
Nobody believes what? Protestants reject the deuterocanonicals to this day. I don't know what you're talking about.

[Anonymous No.13461139]

>>13461119
>To believe it was meant to be symbolic is irrational.
Luke 22:19
19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.”

[Anonymous No.13461155]

>>13461125
>In rejecting the canon of the bible that was accepted by Christians for over one thousand years, Luther wrenched sacred scripture from the certain foundation upon which they had been established
>each book of the bible has a cloud of suspicion hanging over it because the bible does not have an infallible table of contents that lists the books that are divinely inspired and, therefore, should be included in it.

[Anonymous No.13461166]

>>13461139
Yes, we've all read it. Why did so many of his followers consider it a "hard saying" and abandon him, even presumably after witnessing miracles?

>>13461155
I guess I get what you mean, but I wish you would use your words to explain what you want me to understand. Not everybody thinks about these issues, but if they did they would understand that from the Protestant perspective there is a cloud of suspicion hanging over every book since for them there is no foundation for the canon of scripture.

[Anonymous No.13461192]

Don't, I grew up hyper Calvinist and it's pure resentment and narcissism all the way down. Turns you into something like a bitter Jew overly concerned with "who is part of the Tribe and who isn't". Makes you rude to strangers and gives you ways to excuse your faults. You become so concerned with your own faults that you start to love your own self hate and become obsessed with it. I'm having a hard time putting down to words why it's bad but just trust me, you'll be at the same place where you are now in a couple of years with the knowledge of how much time you've wasted

[Anonymous No.13461216]

>>13461192
I've never been involved with any Calvinists but I've been watching James White for a bit and they really do come off as giant cunts. What makes them that way?

[Anonymous No.13461222]

>>13461166
>why did a bunch of people leave when a guy said to eat him?
Because it was a metaphor, if they understood that they wouldn't leave, Jesus talked to them because the people of his generation was blind and deaf, it's why only the apostles stayed because they understood he wasn't talking about physically eating him

[Anonymous No.13461225]

>>13461192
>You become so concerned with your own faults that you start to love your own self hate
what a devious mental trap

[Anonymous No.13461229]

>>13461192
Good man. The smug Calvinist stereotype is very real.

[Anonymous No.13461233]

>>13461216
>What makes them that way?

Probably because they believe God loves them more than others?

[Anonymous No.13461242]

>>13461222
Why would Jesus mislead people into thinking something that wasn't true? He used some graphic language you normally wouldn't use, commanding his followers to "gnaw" on his blood and flesh. A neutral observer would think he wanted wanted his followers to take him seriously.

[Anonymous No.13461247]

>Sola Scriptura.
>The doctrines turns out to be Augustinianism taken to its most retarded level.

[Anonymous No.13461248]

>>13461229
That's my dad to a Tee
>Want to do something, try something , new, have beliefs other than him, get interested in a girl
>What are your real reasons for this? Sounds like it's motivated by your Flesh
>Repeat ad naseaum for multiple decades
>Then he's surprised why his son doesn't have any education, interests, real jobs, non family relationships and so on
Sorry for the reddit tier rant but this still makes me so fucking angry

[Anonymous No.13461256]

>>13461233
That might be it but I think there's something more because I know the Amish have a similar sort of belief, but they're pretty with us damned folk.

[Anonymous No.13461259]

>>13461192
>>13461216
>>13461229
>>13461233
>>13461248
>>13461256
OP here, just wanted to clear this up, i'm not a Calvinist yet, but this is something I always notice in calvanism this smuganimegirl.jpg attitude when it comes to dealing with people. The best conclusion that I can think of is that they are just tired by misunderstanding, I mean can you imagine if someone thinks that you believe that babies goes to hell and call you a heretic 24/7 you kind of understand why they become so irritated and dive into never ending debates. I've read a book that Calvin make Calvinism to be stricter than Lutheranism in order not leave any misunderstanding about about the theology, so you can imagine the rage when someone misunderstand the things you said, same goes for catholic with the pope, and Orthodox with the patriarch, being elected and selected isn't something to smug about imo, it's high responsibility and there's no definite way to say someone is selected and elected with hard proof expect by confirmation by God himself like that when he got from God and the holy spirit. There's more to it but I don't feel like writing a blog

[Anonymous No.13461269]

>>13461256
Really? I always thought the Amish were more Arminian. They might believe we're all damned, but do they believe in double-predestination and limited atonement?

[Anonymous No.13461273]

>>13461259
>call you a heretic 24/7
Well, they are.

[Anonymous No.13461275]

>>13461242
He didn't mislead anyone he told them the truth, but he wasn't saying "eat my physical body or else" he was just using as a metaphor and they took it the wrong way why? because they lack the spirit, only the spirit can reveal the truth.

[Anonymous No.13461279]

>>13461259
Is it true that turbo-Calvinists get really depressed and anxiety ridden because they feel like they doubt sometimes and because of that it must mean that they never had *real* and thus God never chose them to believe in him, therefore are damned to hell?

Calvinism seems like a gateway to despair. You want to believe in God but you realize you're not perfect in your belief, and you think all is lost.

[Anonymous No.13461287]

>>13461279
Turbo-calvanism/hyper calvanism makes no sense so there's that.

I'm not sure about despair. sounds more reassuring to me.

[Anonymous No.13461288]

>>13461216

Because most of the ones on youtube, like White, aren't Reformed at all. They're just Baptists who have picked up a Calvinist or hyper-calvinist view of Election and Predestination, so they still carry the same superiority complex about being the only "real" "Bible believers" like a lot of southern and independent baptists do.

[Anonymous No.13461300]

>>13461287
How is thinking you might have 0 chance into getting into heaven despite desiring it reassuring?

[Anonymous No.13461306]

>>13461279
The majority of the young people at my old Calvinist church were on antidepressants, really surprised me because I thought I was the only one

[Anonymous No.13461311]

>>13461300
Cause then you realize that your just as bad as everyone else

[Anonymous No.13461315]

>>13461275
I don't think this a rational position to hold, I can see how it fits in with Calvinist theology though if they think God selects people and saves them without them really having any choice in the matter, because he could have easily told those people to chill out and that's it's a symbolic things but he didn't. He chose to use provocative language which mislead people to their damnation.

I think this is ultimately a case of making scripture fit your theology as opposed to making theology fit your scripture because nowhere else do Protestants take such a non-literal esoteric interpretation of scripture. This is not even to mention all the church fathers from very early on who understood the Eucharist in the same way that Catholics and Orthodox do.

[Anonymous No.13461319]

>>13461306
Why so? what was their problem?

[Anonymous No.13461325]

>>13461288
This, YouTubers in general have this mentality

[Anonymous No.13461334]

>>13461192
>I grew up hyper Calvinist
I think I found your problem

[Anonymous No.13461339]

>>13461279

It's definitely a problem within Calvinist circles. You can only know you're one of the Elect, according to traditional Calvinist and Puritan theology, by the inward witness of the Holy Spirit or by good works serving as proof of election, because only a "good tree can produce good fruit."

Naturally the problem is how you can really be sure you have the inward testimony of the Spirit? Maybe you're self-deceived? The same with good works. Perhaps you're simply self-righteous? The Puritan divines would generally say something to effect that the testimony of the Spirit would be so certain as to be beyond doubt, so the present of doubt leads most Calvinists to assume they can't, practically speaking, know by this method. So you're really only left judging your own works, which leads people, ironically, into doing a bunch of good works to certify their calling and election while constantly preaching that works have absolutely nothing to do with your election or ultimate salvation.

[Anonymous No.13461343]

>>13461319
depression
lol what did you think?

[Anonymous No.13461349]

>>13461334
Really fucks you up, glad I'm done with it

[Anonymous No.13461351]

>>13461343
No like, what specifically made them that way

[Anonymous No.13461358]

>>13461349
Hyper Calvinism makes no sense, try historical Calvinism or traditional

[Anonymous No.13461361]

>>13461339
Good works don't save but it can testify and appreciate

[Anonymous No.13461366]

>as if Confessions of a Justified Sinner didn’t btfo determinism

[Anonymous No.13461367]

>>13461351
forcing themselves to believe something that is obviously not true + not dealing with anyone outside of the church

[Anonymous No.13461388]

>>13461367
>forcing themselves to believe something that is obviously not true
debatle
>not dealing with anyone outside of the church
I don't want to be that guy but this rarely specific, i'm not sure where you're getting at, again sorry not trying to be smug

[Anonymous No.13461399]

>>13461361

Right. But how can you really be sure you're not just bullshitting yourself and think that you're genuinely producing good works when it may not be true? The un-elect (or reprobate) are not only self-righteous but also hate God's law, so have no ability to accurately judge whether or not they're producing good works. Basically, your own self-assessment is not by itself enough.

[Anonymous No.13461400]

>>13461388
Sorry, I'm just relating my own personal experience. It was a cult with hypercalvinist beliefs. Charismatic leaders, kidnappings, and communal living.

[Anonymous No.13461413]

>>13461400
>It was a cult with hypercalvinist beliefs. Charismatic leaders, kidnappings, and communal living.

dude, tell us more if it's not something that's too traumatic to talk about.

[Anonymous No.13461414]

>>13461400
So basically a small town, sounds about right. Stuff like this happens all the time in small town church, especially in the south

[Anonymous No.13461457]

>>13461399
>so have no ability to accurately judge whether or not they're producing good works
What are you saying anon, are you trying to say that I have no way of knowing whether something is morally right or wrong? it's not that rocket science to know the difference between good works between bad works, Bad tree = bad fruits in the same way Bad cook = bad food everything you need to know that God looks up to is in the bible, more specifically in the OT, you need not to be a Christian to know that an evil act is evil or deceiving, everyone is aware the implication of the 10 commandments whether it is consciously or not.

[Anonymous No.13461478]

>>13461414
>>13461413
>Small Town Minnesota 1960's
>New arrives at the church, his first assignment (I can really dig deep into his backstory if you want)
>Debate comes up about whether you can be a christian and still have insurance
>Big schism
>Churchgoers come in one sunday morning, pastor has a chalkboard with the question "Do you believe that XXX is my God-Given pastor"
>Meeting starts, pastor asks for show of hands, half the church leaves or is immediately kicked out by pastor
>Couple of months later, pastor's daughter dies at 6 months, starts having visions, claims to be the only prophet since Jesus, starts laying hands on people
>Meetings become indefinitely long, some lasting more than a full day (24 hours) of preaching by him
>most quit their jobs and sell their homes, cars, assets, pool them all together and live communally.
>has a vision that the world is ending, so they don't plan for much
>my grandpa's second wife gets out quick because of all the craziness, takes kids away and hides with family
>my grandpa has none of this and conspires with the pastor to get them back so they can go to heaven, sends out men to break into the house and steal them
>suceeds but some get caught, given a slap on the wrists
>townspeople hear about this and start shunning members
>"muh oppression"
>angry mob comes to dissolve the church but the deputy sherrif gives them a heads up and suggest they get out of town
>they all uproot and move to the inner city ghetto because of cheap housing
>I was born about 30 years later and things have definitely calmed down, but holy shit
>found out this wasn't normal, parents threaten to shun me if I don't stay in the church
currently trying to join the military so I'm not homeless in the near future

Any questions? I'm drunk and not doing anything right now

[Anonymous No.13461498]

>>13461478
>claims to be the only prophet since Jesus
How do people fall for such blatant cults? this is straight up idiocy. I'm sorry this happened to you anon, you were in a cult and really bad one too, it legit sounds like Far Cry 5. Also do people still believe in this?

[Anonymous No.13461517]

>>13461498
A really big reason that you might not think is that the pastor will completely interrupt his schedule and spend 8 hours talking to you on short notice while a therapist charges you $100 dollars an hour and needs to schedule you in two weeks in advance. The cult can supply much more emotional support (with a very large eventual cost!) for cheaper and quicker than legitimate authorities.

[Anonymous No.13461525]

>>13461517
I see, so it was more of communal thing than religion, makes sense. Calling it now, it's all gonna fall when he's not the pastor anymore

[Anonymous No.13461544]

>>13461525
We'll see, there might actually be a legitimate civil war when that happens
>Council of Elders (my bet for who will win)
>Pastor's daughter (Might be schizophrenic, or so machiavellian that she fakes her visions)
>Wild card (A newly inspired Prophet perhaps!)
>dissolution
>rejoining with a larger church (not going to happen)
I'm not sticking around to deal with the fallout.

[Anonymous No.13461555]

>>13461544
Let it all die, this religious shenanigans is gonna fall own it's own, once the keystone falls, all of it will

[Anonymous No.13461564]

>>13461457

It's not the "knowing right or wrong" that it's the issue; it's whether or not you're actually DOING good. Based on Calvinist theology, the unregenerate and/or non-elect are self-righteous and hate the law of God, so are completely unreliable for judging themselves. They believe themselves often to be doing things that are spiritually good but have no ability to even soundly judge what is 'spiritually good' and so on. This is basic Reformed theology.

[Anonymous No.13461579]

>>13461544
Do you have any tips for someone looking to start a cult? I don’t want to be worshipped, but I do want to have near godlike authority over my followers.

[Anonymous No.13461585]

>>13461579
I do, but I'm absolutely not going to share them, I hope you understand

[Anonymous No.13461591]

>>13461564
Here's a quote for you
>Regarding the will, Spurgeon said, “We declare on scriptural authority that the human will is so desperately set on mischief, so depraved, so inclined to everything that is evil, and so disinclined to everything that is good, that without the powerful, supernatural, irresistible influence of the Holy Spirit, no human will will ever be constrained toward Christ.” By this statement, Spurgeon affirmed that the volitional capacity of sinful man is paralyzed, leaving him incapable of responding to the free offer of Christ.

I believe what you are talking about is total depravity, it is honestly is highly misunderstood in the Calvinist circle

[Anonymous No.13461595]

>>13461478

Well getting out through the military is probably not a bad plan. I'll say a prayer for you, anon. If you still have a religious bent in you left, know that there are people out there who are believers that aren't batshit crazy.

I've been in some crazy churches, although not like that. But I can relate.

Whatever happened to the preacher who was having visions? Did anyone ever step up and challenge him on the "I'm the only real prophet since Jesus" because that throws the whole Bible out of the window, right?

[Anonymous No.13461598]

>>13461585
You basically did by posting >>13461478 now to become filthy rich

[Anonymous No.13461618]

>>13461595
>Whatever happened to the preacher who was having visions?
still the de jure leader
>Did anyone ever step up and challenge him on the "I'm the only real prophet since Jesus" because that throws the whole Bible out of the window, right?
That's why they kicked people out for the insurance thing. immediately get rid of any sort of opposition. and TBF it's worked out pretty well for him

[Anonymous No.13462774]

>>13460717

Reformed are just autistic Augustinians. The actual "based" Christians are the church fathers as a whole, not neo-Augustinians. Read John Cassian's Conferences to get a more nuanced view of free will vs fatalism.

[Anonymous No.13462784]

>>13461110

Wrong.

>Lee Martin MacDonald
>Jaroslav Pelikan
>FF Bruce
>JND Kelly
>etc

[Anonymous No.13462803]

>>13461104
>We do the Eucharist bu we don't believe in it
The absolute state of protestants

[Anonymous No.13462991]

>>13462784
I have to wonder why they're still protestants. You can't have sola scriptura without know the scriptura.

[Anonymous No.13463068]

>>13460793
I'm Reformed, but unfortunately we don't really have a scriptural basis for Sola Scriptura. We just take our churches' word for it on faith. My pastor tells me to believe in Sola Scriptura, and that's good enough for me.

[Anonymous No.13463124]

>>13460923
Based

[Anonymous No.13463141]

>>13460962
>supposedly ""understands faith""
>still posts anime
yeah, sure

[Anonymous No.13463760]

>>13461024
>You could spend your entire life in a Reformed church and never know that being crucified actually hurts quite a bit.
Perfectly said. I remember thinking as a kid that crucifixion was just hanging on the wall or something for a short period of time as some religious ritual. Never occurred to me at all that Jesus was being executed.

[Anonymous No.13464047]

Bump

[Anonymous No.13464225]

>>13460717
If you are going protestant, lutheran theology is far superior to reformed.

[Anonymous No.13465094]

>>13460793

I suspect this question is in bad faith since Catholics hate Scripture in general and a Scriptural basis for Sola Scriptura would be ignored just like all the other explicit or implicit Scriptural rebukes of Catholicism. I doubt the people who murder no so much despite Matthew 16:18, but FOR it, would even comprehend what it meas one way or another.

[Anonymous No.13465184]

>>13461088
>>13461090
Indeed, Catholics should also reject the heretic who planted the poisonous idea of rejecting the deuterocanon in Luther's head. Ban his translations, books, etc. it's all tainted.

[Anonymous No.13466397]

>>13460923
>Just convert to Islam. Islam is like Calvinism but it makes more sense because it denies the incarnation, crucifixion, and resurrection, which are all things that do not make sense within the Reformed system.
>If you're going to believe God predestines people to believe in him, (not to get into why God would create some people just so that they could go to hell) then what's the point of the crucifixion? It's just a show, exactly what the Quran states.
Extremely based response anon.

[Anonymous No.13467180]

>>13465094
So you’re saying you can’t provide a scriptural basis for Sola Scriptura?

[Anonymous No.13467709]

>>13461024
>Hell isn't eternal in Islam, but Calvinism is definitely a proto-Islam. Protestants don't want to crucifixion to be real, that's why in every Baptist/Reformed church you go to it's nothing but "Yay Jesus" and patting yourself on the back.
Calvinism is a proto-Islam, when Islam began about a millennia beforehand?
>They don't want Jesus to have actually suffered, and if he didn't it doesn't matter to them. The incarnation and Christ's sacrifice exists purely in the real of ideals for a Prot, they recoil at the thought of it actually having happened. You could spend your entire life in a Reformed church and never know that being crucified actually hurts quite a bit.
This is self-congratulatory and willful ignorance. Have you ever stepped foot into a Protestant church? The giant crosses (about the only symbol used in most Protestant churches), and the preaching over Communion, stirring the parishioner to think about how Christ's blood was shed, and to drink in remembrance of him? Where do you get off thinking that Protestants don't realize the pain and horror of crucifixion? This is just a lie. Anything you can say about lax and lazy Protestants, their ignorance or impotence in faith, you can say about similar Catholics (and Greek Orthodox) a hundredfold.

[Anonymous No.13468398]

>>13467709
Protestants don’t care about the crucifixion, which is why they always have prominent crosses. The cross symbolizes Jesus’s resurrection and ascension, not his suffering. Basically Protestants want the reward without any of the cost, a pretty typical American mindset.

[Anonymous No.13468522]

>>13467180

I can't. It would make no difference to the Catholic, regardless.

[Anonymous No.13468569]

>>13460720
Cringe.
Protestantism is a product of literacy.
Catholicism is a product of paintings, colored glass, and statues.
I'll take the former any day.

[Anonymous No.13468595]

>>13461090
>He did so because they contained passages that disagreed with his theology
Bearing false witness is still a sin, even if you do it to own the Protestants
The reason he rejected those books is because they had no Hebrew original. Many people throughout time have believed the extra books in the Septuagint to be writings of Rabbinical tradition, and not translations of sacred scripture. Later, with the discovery of the Dead Sea scrolls, original Hebrew versions of many of these books were found.
Tl;dr: the deuterocanonical books are scripture, but you shouldn’t bear false witness against the reformers

[Anonymous No.13468649]

>>13468398
The reflection on the cross as a symbol will vary, but those that compare it to the Crucifix say that the cross is a symbol of Christ's incarnation, his death and sorrow, but as of now the cross is empty, because Christ died once for all. It also reflects Jesus's resurrection and ascension. "It is finished." Are those bad things? If you believe the Protestants do not emphasize the sufferings and sorrows of Jesus, and his Passion, you are sorely mistaken.
>Basically Protestants want the reward without any of the cost, a pretty typical American mindset.
To put this all into a generic indictment against Protestants is false. Since we're speaking in such generalities and anecdotes, then I'd say as I did earlier, that whatever condemnations you have against Protestants for ignoring this or that, you can make tenfold against the average Catholic. The Catholic who converted as an adult is often very introspective, but most Catholics aren't. They care nothing for the fact that they practice mortal sins according to the church, know little and make no effort to know doctrine, and put no thought into their sufferings in life as a reflection the life of Christ, and him on the cross.
Some Protestants are very much the same, and some may be like what you say. But the same is true of any faith. The truly converted and introspective have a very deep view of suffering. It was my purportedly "dullard and suffering-free" Baptist upbringing that taught me this, and not to spurn suffering. Our solemn observance of Communion taught me that suffering is not without purpose.

[Anonymous No.13468675]

>>13460793
Do you read translation if you follow sola scriptura? Because that makes no sence.
Islam follows sola scriptura and you cant read translations.

[Anonymous No.13468689]

>>13460717
OH NONONNONNONONO

[Anonymous No.13468721]

>>13468675
>Islam follows sola scriptura
What? No they don’t
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith
Please refrain from speaking on subjects you know nothing about

[Anonymous No.13468760]

>>13468595
Luther objected to Maccabees because it supported purgatory.

[Anonymous No.13468800]

>>13468595
That's modernist Protestant revisionist history.

[Anonymous No.13468861]

>>13468721
They do, the Qur'an is take as the world of law and nothing can contradict it. Even as you point to the hadidt there is a verse in the Qur'an to support them.
Sure you can argue that their existence contradicts sola scripture but it's as close as you are gona get to it.
And that does not change my point about translation tho.

[Anonymous No.13469795]

>>13460717
determinism is bunk because it makes God causally responsible for sin

[Anonymous No.13469815]

>>13461311
how is that reassuring lmao

[Anonymous No.13469878]

>>13468721
the hadith aren't considered divinely inspired, they're just transcriptions of oral traditions. you could argue that the events they relate are 'inspired' but I don't think that's much different from considering private revelations 'inspired' and doesn't really throw a stick in the doctrine

[Anonymous No.13469891]

>>13469878
my bad that was to >>13468721

[Anonymous No.13470293]

>>13468861
Sola Scriptura =/= usage of holy books, if that were the case then Catholicism also believes in sola scriptura
The hadiths are non-scriptural traditions followed by all Muslims. The Muslim equivalent of sola scriptura (Quranism) is considered heresy and believers are persecuted
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quranism
>>13469878
>the hadith aren't considered divinely inspired, they're just transcriptions of oral traditions
Muslims believe authentic hadiths are divinely inspired, as they are the words of the prophet and Allah
>they don’t really throw a stick in doctrine
The hadiths are mostly law books, they impact doctrine a lot
Please, PLEASE, please refrain from speaking on subjects you know nothing about

[Anonymous No.13471373]

>>13470293
That how you look at it form your Muslim point of view form my it's clearly the closest you can get to sola scriptura as possible in reality.
The qur'an is unquestionably the fist and final authority and just because you and some oral traditions to expand it about does not change it that much.
It Christianity bits much different since you can even argue that The Gospels come afther the beginning of the church and the apostolic tradition.

[Anonymous No.13471397]

>>13471373
And pint in reference to the Qur'an was about translations do you accept the or not. I know you don't.

[Anonymous No.13471733]

>>13470293
Why are you proud of knowing about Isl*m? It’s a subject you should be ignorant of.

[Anonymous No.13473152]

>>13460717
Have you tried asking God?

[Anonymous No.13473231]

>>13460717
>Christ says, "Peter is the rock on which I will build my church. What is bound on Earth will be bound in Heaven and what is loosed on Earth will be loosed in Heaven."
>Peter founds the Catholic church.
>The church binds and loosens for centuries.
>Martin "can't read" Luther comes around.
>"Sola Scriptura, guys, except for the parts Christ said, ignore those parts."
Reformation is idiotic precisely because Sola Scriptura. Catholic, Egyptian Orthodox, and Baptist are the only churches true to scripture according to scholastic interpretation.

[Anonymous No.13473265]

>>13471733
this board doesn't appreciate brainletism

[Anonymous No.13473276]

>>13473231
how on earth did you manage to lump catholicism, miaphysitism and a random american denomination together

[Anonymous No.13473826]

>>13471373
If that is the case why do Muslims not pray 3 times a day as stated in the Koran but 5 times a day as based on Hadith ?

[Anonymous No.13474088]

>>13463068
>t. Cathodox larping as reformed Christian