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13451318 No.13451318 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

I think the basis of the left is a desire to increase overall happiness and protect those who are unjustly targeted. Overall, the ideology seems to have been formed around the idea of striving to reduce harm and therefore suffering of the lower and middle classes, who are at risk the most from this.

What does the right have at this point? What is its noble goal? Because I'm genuinely at a loss. What can the right provide for the modern world? Not baiting at all, genuinely would love a discussion on this and I know this shit would be impossible on /pol/ so please just fucking don't.

>> No.13451323

Left and right as categories are 100 times more arbitrary and misleading than race or gender or whatever the fuck and yet everyone still treats them with absolute credulity.

>> No.13451324

>reduce harm and therefore suffering of the lower and middle classes

How do you know what this means? What does "reduce harm" mean? Who gets to define what "harm" is?

>> No.13451325

The goal of the left is to get rid of hierarchies that create disenfranchised classes. The Right argues that doing this tends to destroy your civilization because getting rid of hierarchies is equivalent to destroying the social bonds that allow complex societies to exist at all.

>> No.13451326

Well they are in the limelight right now, so I think it's fair to address them as the two dominating factors by default.

>> No.13451334
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Both are sides of the same coin, neither side is actually works for YOUR best interests and they are both ultimately controlled by the same group. They are literally the right and left arms of the same entity.

>> No.13451339

American and European leftist ideology typically requires extreme reliance on government to achieve it's ends, as well as major expenditures which are difficult to accommodate for in Western society, which are typically capitalist leaning. Right wing ideology promotes, or used to promote, freedom from government and liberty to do as one likes without interference (within reason).

Obvious oversimplification, but honestly the representatives of both left and right in the west right now are foolish

>> No.13451342
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>Left wing = entropy, chaos, void
>Right wing = negentropy, order, creation
Both are absolutely necessary for a functioning society, although the left wing has grown too powerful in recent years and needs to be reined in

>> No.13451349

In my experience people become leftists out of sexual perversion or frustration, or a desire to inflict pain on those who they perceive to have wronged them.

>> No.13451351

I see the left as a reaction to an excess of (technological) order. Both are diseased, we need to wipe the slate clean and let these principles breathe again

>> No.13451352

I, too, subscribe to /r/JordanPeterson

>> No.13451354

Centre-right parties in the Anglosphere only became free market stooges in the mid-20th century, combining Whig liberalism with conservative morality.

>> No.13451361

I don't disagree, but these divisions go way, way, way back in time, you can't resolve then except through each other, it's a dialectical opposition between two poles producing a unity

>> No.13451365

lmao read this and then make another thread

>> No.13451369
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Meant to pist this pic

>> No.13451371

Jesus lefties are like little children mentally

>> No.13451373

Have you seen how many rightists join it to deride whole classes of people they claim are wronging them (usually indirectly, by wronging their entire social class in the aggregate)? As for sexual perversions, it wasn't true as much before, but in the 2010s young anonymous rightists tend to express their fetishes practically with pride.

>> No.13451385
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>> No.13451393

I don't have as much experience with the right. Just noting my observations about leftists I've met.

>> No.13451396
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This is one of the funniest pages I've ever read, kantfags btfo

>> No.13451402

The basic paradox of current rightism is that society is undoubtedly run by people who lean left on most questions(monarchy, patriarchy, religion, eugenics(this one is complicated because eugenics have been taken up by progressives in the past), etc., the one big right wing establishment in power is capitalism, and it is mitigated by the welfare state and there are obviously still desires to attempt communism again.) so being right wing is going against authority which is exactly what you're not supposed to do as a rightist. Obviously they want someone else to be in power instead of Progressives, at least the coherent rightists, but a lot of these guys are in fact just resentful proles who see a state that doesn't care about them and want to rebel against it, making them basically leftwing in action, even if they signal allegiance to symbols associated with the right, and would want to institute more right wing laws should they gain power.

This has the effect that whenever Progressives do gain power they tend to become "right wing" about certain issues(the issues that lend them their power). For example the way they view Academia is precisely the way that old conservatives used to view the church, you don't question what the priests say. A similar feeling exists in what is allowed to be 'legitimate' press.

This means that the particular groups that are generally right or left rapidly switch in reality when one gains or loses power. An even more obvious example is Stalin, who became almost a monarch and regressed on many progressive issues such as homosexuality and the family, all to keep running the great Leftist experiment of communism, though even that was hilariously hierarchically structured, and not ground up in any meaningful sense.

There are two obvious opposite poles though, a kind of militarized, divine-right monarchy, with patriarchy, extremely strict rules about crime, etc. and total anarcho-communism, some kind of novel way of raising children outside the old structures, feminism, antiracism, etc. These societies never actually exist, but they are kind platonic ideals of the two forces of right and left, forces which in reality are used by both sides in their attempts to create something slightly more approximating their ideal.

>> No.13451404

I can relate with this exactly. My observations are somewhat limited, so I'm unsure if the issue is specifically isolated to leftism or just political fanaticism as a whole. Regardless, I think progressivism is a better descriptor than simply leftism.

>> No.13451407
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It’s a weird feel good narcissism complex. they sell themselves on narcissism, notice the lefty’s particular focus on being cool. and they attract more narcissists like flies to a shit. and they are actually a relative minority with most of their support coming from self interested minorities who are actually very conservative so they don’t really have anything as a movement other than a crazy idea that replacing white people with a different skin color will change things magically.

>> No.13451422

Terror confiscation death

>> No.13451423
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>society is undoubtedly run by people

>> No.13451426

>implying the left isn’t literally bringing all three of those around the world

>> No.13451443

>I think the basis of the left is a desire to increase overall happiness and protect those who are unjustly targeted
Then they are doing a horrible job.

>> No.13451445

>>implying the left isn’t literally bringing all three of those around the world
That was my point sorry if I wasn't clear

>> No.13451449
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>> No.13451509

Compared to Bentham and the utilitarians he does seem the least autismo of the two.

>> No.13451512

Hey OP, how do you feel about the recent Destiny and Hasan drama?

>> No.13451523

>The Autism Zone

>> No.13451552

I'm glad that Destiny (seems to be) ridding himself of ideologues

He really should just double down on his radical centrism and tell both sides to fuck off. He's only doing it as a self-serving project, anyway.

>> No.13451584

Do you know what anarchism is? Libertarian socialism? Left-libertarians?

>> No.13451597

>reduce harm
>invites half a million terrorists and rapists on taxpayer money
Yeah that didn't work out so good

>> No.13451606

I think you're right about the left and that their political philosophy is generally more admirable.

The right tends to emphasise individualism and personal responsibility which is why they get pissed about taxes, big government, and people not pulling their weight. The left don't like to admit it but some amount of pulling oneself up by one's bootstraps is possible. Self determination is possible despite negative circumstances so the right think it's cucky to advocate social justice rather than just clawing your way up.

We need both perspectives.

>> No.13451620

Please don't conflate liberal rightists with actual rightists like this

>> No.13451629

4chan exists in this zone

>> No.13451634

What's an actual rightist then (genuine question)?

>> No.13451636

Liberal rightist are real rightists

>> No.13451639

It means letting Tyrone try out my gf so he doesn't feel sad :D

>> No.13451640

First of all as a grounding assumption you should realize there are no universal right/left coordinates that obtain at all times. What constitutes right or left is historically contingent.

The contemporary left survives only in affluent developed countries and is a byproduct of abundance. Its willingness to extend sympathies to untold masses of strangers in the political-abstract betrays a hypocritical disregard for those suffering with poverty within their own borders. The left benefits from all the nation building and statecraft of more conservative tendencies, and yet acts in defiance of it in its pursuit its desire to help all.

Furthermore, the left masks its moral just causes in the decayed identity politics culture, which is as deeply selfish as any conservative billionaire acting reflexively to protect his interests. The modern left is an unintelligible and confused jumble of weakly glued together values and assumptions, with little practical planning or rational judiciousness.

Conservatism in contrast operates from a distrust of the unknown. It operates from caution, in full sober awareness of how bad things can get if you overplay your cards. The conservative mindset respects boundaries and clear, stable traditional identities.

The right is undergoing a similar bout of disturbance, and yet it results in more frightening and violent forms, because it stems from what is essentially fear of human nature.

In the financial dimension the right is a whole different story, but it basically comes down to respecting the nation as the macro-level unit of economics, that therefore requires prudent governance to maintain prosperity which could easily be lost.

Modern liberals take so much for granted, trusting in overabundance in such a way that it will never end and can be given away accordingly. The conservative takes the opposite view, seeing everything as fragile and in want of protection and careful stewardship if it is to keep from unraveling.

>> No.13451642

dumb drama. do you listen to half the shit destiny says on twitter? his tweets read like a "woke" high school student.

>> No.13451649

Right = deregulate so that GDP goes up and median income goes down and for some reason call that a victory

Left = divide into subgroups and argue amongst each other about theoretical trivialities and social issues while the right continues to focus on the bigger picture and win despite having fewer supporters

Either way we're fucked.

>> No.13451652

Supporting some form of hierarchy-based rule and society.

>> No.13451657

So does that mean rightists tend to be more submissive, since the majority will always be at or near the bottom of the hierarchy, or do they delude themselves into thinking they'll be at the top of the hierarchy?

>> No.13451661

>Conservatism in contrast operates from a distrust of the unknown. It operates from caution, in full sober awareness of how bad things can get if you overplay your cards. The conservative mindset respects boundaries and clear, stable traditional identities.
>The conservative takes the opposite view, seeing everything as fragile and in want of protection and careful stewardship if it is to keep from unraveling.
Except in allowing their nation's manufacturing bases to disintegrate and privatising every industry willy-nilly for the sake of the "free market", as well as promoting wanton economic growth and unparalleled environmental devastation. You're describing a romantic notion of conservatism, which doesn't exist in any contemporary Western government. Your diagnosis of the left is correct, but your hagiography of modern day conservatism is laughable.

>> No.13451662

It's like none of you read my post itt

>> No.13451690

When you let someone more qualified fix your car, does that make you submissive? Why would letting someone better at statecraft run society be any different? Blindly obsessing about muh bootlicking muh freedumbs while ignoring outcomes jus seems dumb.

>> No.13451696

whoa... so this is the power of neoliberalism

>> No.13451715

The left and the right, at least the people who follow the ideologies, generally want the same thing: for things to be good and fair for everyone.

The difference being that they have different world-views, which result in opposing ways of actually reaching said goal of happiness for everyone.

The left, however, are stupid and disgusting and believe that anyone who doesn't follow their exact, narrow way of reaching said goal, actually have bad intentions and want the opposite of what they themselves want.

>> No.13451719

Why don't you ask /pol/?
Why talk to c/lit/?

>> No.13451722

There's a major difference between hierarchy-based rule, which is authoritarian, and the emergent hierarchies you can expect to find in any free society. There's nothing wrong with hiring the most qualified mechanic. But hierarchies imposed arbitrarily from above, which are unnatural and don't allow the best man to win, are just idiotic, and that's what you get with hierarchy-based rule.

>> No.13451742

>The left and the right, at least the people who follow the ideologies, generally want the same thing: for things to be good and fair for everyone. The difference being that they have different world-views, which result in opposing ways of actually reaching said goal of happiness for everyone.
This desu. All other posts are garbage.

>> No.13451743

There is no such thing as a best man in "natural" hierarchies, just the most unscrupulous man.

>> No.13451799

You really should take it to /pol/. There is a reason we quarantined this sort of silly discussion there.

>increase overall happiness and protect those who are unjustly targeted
Words like "happiness" and "justice" are so loaded, they are pointless. 200 years ago, "justice" meant something entirely different. It meant something like "proper application of the law", rather than modern definition, which is closer to "morally proper result".

And "happiness" is very subjective. The Amish are apparently quite happy, despite having their women/children systematically "oppressed".

Arguing about vague concepts, isn't going to get you anywhere. Go to /pol/, and have fun.

>> No.13451826

You still think we run society. What dialogue could we possibly have?

>> No.13451839

As others have mentioned, left and right are far from perfect categories, but the reality is that a line has been drawn (in the anglosphere at least) in popular discourse employing those terms to designate people who hold equality as there prime value and those who hold nearly anything else to be their prime value. These definitions are hardly exhaustive and don't account for people's motivations for adopting particular stances and how those may affect their real world implementation. I prefer to discuss a particular ideology, concept, tradition, school of thought etc rather than arguing over vague and competing super-categories.

>> No.13451840

Meanwhile, in reality, sexually frustrated men tend to be overwhelmingly right-wing

>> No.13451841
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Good fucking lord you're misinformed. Read a book, anon.

>> No.13451846


>> No.13451850

Be aware that what has become known as the political "right" or (god forbid) "conservatism", is just neo-liberalism in an expensive suit. TPUSA-tier basic bitch conservatism in 2019 is repackaged liberalism from twenty years ago. So yes, they do and will want the same things, just on a different schedule. But no, those things are not good and fair for everyone.

>> No.13451855
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Then read a book

>> No.13451860

I'm not talking about what certain key-political figures want, just your ordinary Jane and John Doe on the left and right. We all, in general, want the same thing, like I said. This is something the left has completely forgotten/willfully ignores, in order to be able to paint the other side as evil.

>> No.13451869

>Function society
Pick one

>> No.13451871


>> No.13451873
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The concept of justice is slave morality.

>> No.13451876
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here's how i see it.

liberal dream:
>a chicken in every pot
>healthcare for all
>houses for homeless
libs say the government should regulate this via pay and labor of its able-bodied citizens

conservatives have more confidence in noncentralized powers to combat the above issues. the right wing fairy tale:
>if giant inefficient design-by-committee centralized systems had less power, individuals and private companies would be more able to do their stuff
>as a result the liberal's dream occurs naturally.
>the homeless work their way up
>private healthcare becomes magically cheap like the $1-mcchicken.

both of them are bullshit, it's all bullshit. fuck this gay earth. fuck being a weak stupid smelly mutilated ogre human creature. we all belong in hell and will get what we deserve. fuck this gay earth. i hate being a human being. better to never have been.

bizarre take, so left field i cannot even conceptualize it.

>> No.13451877

The Zapatistas and certain areas of Spain during the civil war say hello

>> No.13451886

But you end up posting Oliver curry who is a fucking moron

>> No.13451895
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The problem with modern leftism, in Britain at least, is that it's tied itself to a number of other causes which are repulsive, e.g. modern feminism, mass immigration, quota-led diversity hiring, anti-white hostility, etc.

When most major towns and cities in your country are seeing a 10%+ drop in its native population every decade, you have a problem. The left are the least likely to see a problem and do anything about it.

>> No.13451898
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You're retarded and your paradigm is myopically contemporary.
>noncentralized powers
>"individuals and private companies"
These are your examples of non-centralized powers? I... what?
>the homeless work their way up
And here I thought you were too contemporary: No, you're just caught on the contemporary-1980s nostalgic resonance like everyone else.
>better to never have been.
"Better to remain silent," Silenus.

>> No.13451899

fpbp and /thread

It's almost as if there's a conspiracy by people in power to keep normies distracted with this "left/right" rhetoric.

Meanwhile both the "left" and "right" governments continue the same program: foreign wars, 3rd world immigration, the dumbing of society, ...

>> No.13451907

But the "right" are doing the exact same things. There is no "right wing" party with power in the West that is actually nationalist/anti-immigration or anti-faggotry or whatever.
The only exception is maybe Hungary, if that counts as West.

>> No.13451916

The left admits it. The thing is the right wing analysis from that perspective is always absolutely retarded. Take say tuition free state university. My argument for it is that it removes financial barriers and makes university entry more merit based, since you still have to compete to get in. We all agree that what determines where you end up in life ideally ought to be based on your hardwork and talent. This is good for the individual but also good for society. The right wing retort?
Well, uh, you could always just accept the debt you'll get. Or you could try to get a good enough paying job to work through university. Or you could work even harder and get a scholarship. They of course ignore the pragmatic, statistical implications of these ideas. People who have merit but not wealth will be deterred from taking debt. People who have to work their way up the work place ladder will start university later with less malleable brains and will be at a disadvantage from people who don't need to work, for that and also because they have less hours to study. If you make it so the only way to get financial support are scholarships, you still aren't equalizing opportunity, as the financially better off don't have to be as exceptional to compete with others for a spot in a school.
Of course the right wing thought process just goes back to, "BUT it IS POSSIBLE to make it without state assistance." Well no shit Sherlock. And it's always possible to defend your property and life on your own, but no one thinks of you as a weak free loader for calling the cops if your house is being robbed.

>> No.13451926

The absolute state of the "right wing" in Britain

>> No.13451934

I understand what you're saying. The problem is that fairness translates horribly to policy. Us wanting "the same thing" means nothing if the "us" is a dysgenic, stratified mass whose only common trait is the land mass which they occupy. This is the fundamental flaw in liberal democracy. It will, as ever, cater to the lowest common denominator. This, combined with the importation of the third world into Western countries, should clearly illustrate how "fairness" will be used as a cudgel.

>> No.13451939

yes current conservative lore is bullshit, no surprise there. most conservatives i know have this strong delusion that small businesses still run the world, that some basement dweller can suddenly come out of nowhere with a new company he built overnight to compete with the likes of Facebook/Apple/Amazon/Netflix/Google

so yeah they actually do think that private companies are less centralized than government

its crazy what kids these days are doing with their computers.

>> No.13451946
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I can agree with most of that. Which is why I think the idea of multiculturalism is a bad one - people need something that binds them all together, or you'll just devolve into a clan-like mentality you have in places like Somalia.

>> No.13451954

Yeah. These days if you have a good idea you don't start your own small business and topple the other ones. You sell your idea to one of the giant oligopolies. Everything is giant nation wide chains.
Enforce anti-trust laws again.

>> No.13451980
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Look buddy, you need two wings to fly.


>> No.13451984

Left and right are just the two sides of the same coin.
A divide and conquer strategy that the jew uses to stay in power and destroy white people.

>> No.13451986

Bruh, the poles, swedes, danes, italians, irish, germans, etc etc have managed to assimilate. These were all cultures and ethnic groups that were hated and vilified at the time a mass of them immigrated to the US. Now, a few generations later, they're just American.
Multiculturalism is the name of the game. It has always happened. People move, cultures change. This has been going on for thousands of years.
You being scared of people that look and speak differently is a piss poor reason to advocate that everyone stays where they were born and that no one moves ever.

>> No.13451987

The overall goal of the left is to end systems of unjustified oppression, not to improve overall wellbeing, as if that could be measured without reference to a predominant ideology to begin with.

>> No.13451989

Moldbug's idea of "the Cathedral" is a recurring theme; it is a "distributed conspiracy", one that treats feminism, democracy, and other "progressive" causes, and the general world view of educated Westerners, as the current world's version of an established church:[40]

And the left is the party of the educational organs, at whose head is the press and universities. This is our 20th-century version of the established church. Here at UR, we sometimes call it the Cathedral — although it is essential to note that, unlike an ordinary organization, it has no central administrator. No, this will not make it easier to deal with.

Even if there's something like this that you could be persuaded to see, it's hard to imagine a proper conspiracy without conspirators. What Moldbug describes looks more like a culture: a broadly shared set of associated social values embodied in shared institutions, symbols, and practices. If you are reading this, you probably live there. This is what he's against.

The Cathedral is similar to Guy Debord'sWikipedia's W.svg "society of the Spectacle", except that instead of the Spectacle being created by the media in the service of capitalism, Moldbug believes the Cathedral is a conspiracy run by academia.

One of these ideas is not like the others. This one comes from neoreaction's links to the Bay Area transhumanist subculture. This is why neoreactionaries showed up on LessWrong.

There are neoreactionaries who will attempt to reconcile transhumanism and singularitarianism with taking the rest of society back several hundred years, particularly Michael Anissimov;[41] the attempts are certainly creative, at least.[42]

Despite Yudkowsky rejecting neoreaction, MIRI's goal closely resembles the neoreactionary goal: a single sovereign Friendly artificial intelligence, ruling human space for all time for the good of all.[43]

In Moldbug's proposal — a world divided up into libertarian anarcho-monarchies, informed by pickup-artist patter (the world made Gor!Wikipedia's W.svg), among many little autonomous princedoms governed by kings, aristocrats, or dictators — you may have trouble placing bets about how long the Internet would hold up. If 300 baud was good enough for Jesus Christ...

>> No.13451992

Dude go outside and get some fresh air. Walk to the park. Grab some coffee. Bang a chick.

>> No.13452000

You should learn how to read, "bruh". I don't mind people moving wherever, as long as they don't form parallel societies in the countries they move into, and start propagating for different rules for them. You said it yourself: the danes, irish etc. assimilated. Assimilated into what? Into the culture of the country they moved to.

Multiculturalism is the idea that a country can harbour completely different cultures, each with their own law (that in many cases go against the law of the country) - that has never, and will never, work.

>> No.13452002

If only there were some kind of third position...

>> No.13452004

Funny how every ethnic group you used in your argument is a product of Europe. Think long and hard about that. You already know you're being disingenuous.

>> No.13452009

I would agree with you, buy it should be free only for those who actually have "talent". If you have an Iq of at least 120 you should get your education for free, otherwise you are just a wasting your time and our money.

>> No.13452012

This time the people are global iq lowering crime rate raising rape monsters causing overpopulation

>> No.13452015

Yeah...It's almost like there could exist a sort of fiscally liberal, socially conservative alternative...

>> No.13452018

Anarchists are so stupid

>> No.13452020


>> No.13452024

I used it because I'm more familiar with American history because I myself am American. It's worth noting that being European means absolutely nothing when those guys hated each others guts. They didn't have the same conception of race and ethnicity that we do today.

Assimilating is pretty easy if the resources are there desu. It goes faster if there's state support behind it. I went to school in a very diverse area. Lots of kids of parents that had recently immigrated and gave birth here. We were all pretty fucking Americanized, and a lot of us struggled to speak our parents natives tongues.
So yeh, send the parents to night school to learn English. Send the kids to public school. Assimilation achieved.

>> No.13452025

Anarchists are the conservatives of the sliding scale of government control.

>> No.13452028

Gee, wouldn't that be swell...
Oh well, I'm sure everything will turn out all reicht in the end anyhow. :)

Have a nice day anon, stay hydrated.

>> No.13452034

>and a lot of us struggled to speak our parents natives tongues
The shitskin parasite exposed himself

>> No.13452041


>> No.13452051
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Bread daddy still loves you and wants you fully develop of all the material, intellectual and moral capacities that are latent in every one of us.

>> No.13452057
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Ah yes there's the overt racism. Welcome, bootlicker. Keep on hating and slaving away for your master.

>> No.13452074
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Surely you see the irony.

>> No.13452090
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Surely you see that I'm not a Democrat and hate libs. Like, lol that's exactly what they do. Dems are just capitalists that see that blacks and gays are a market to be exploited. They don't actually give a fuck about them.

>> No.13452101
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The Boot interpassively Licks itself: We don't even have feet, much less legs to stand on. We are the Vampire-Canine "teeth of Capital."

>> No.13452102

I would sacrifice everything that I have to get rid of the parasites both at the bottom and the top of society.
Money means nothing to me.

>> No.13452103

I have no issue with anything you've just said. Just confused as to why you would post an LBJ quote in some attempt to chastise online racism.

>> No.13452114
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What is termed the "right" wants races secure and comprehended within a homeland. In this world Europeans are becoming increasingly insecure as their nation states are being planted with racial enemies, who will band together to destroy them. One can see this on the grand scale in voting patterns by demographic in the US on the grand scale, and in the micro scale you merely have to go to any "diverse" school and see how children almost automatically stick together by race. For an anecdote: it was almost comical when I was in school in my European country, how the Asians would stick together from their respective countries, the blacks generally as a bloc. Now you might say, "but anon, those are just kids with primitive little kid minds, surely when they grow older they will associate more broadly, indeed they will have to due to their variegated career choices", NO! What makes you ignorant people think that if we adopt America's multiplicity of races and abolish our nations, we won't also be adopting racial voting, with the remaining Europeans gravitating increasingly to a "white" party that espouses their racial interest, even if only taciturnly and never openly?
"But anon," you say again, droll and retarded as you were before, "why should I care if these people vote as a bloc? It's not as though their policies will manifest in a direct confrontation to my wellbeing with say, genocide", well I'd say to yourself, enjoy getting your wig split by manic machete niggers, you onions chugging ape, and I will laugh in the pages of history if the ugly mulatto monks who survive the impending dark ages deign to scribble anything for posterity on cardboard parchment by the light of a candle in a can of Heinz beans.

>> No.13452129

I've had some success using that quote to show a specific group of people (disaffected young straight white males) that the type of people that feed and encourage their racism aren't doing it to help them. It's just another tool to divide the working class.
It's sad and frustrating. It's like, dude, brown people aren't fucking your life up; the guys who underpay you and jack your rent up are.

>> No.13452132

What about Italy?

>> No.13452136

>but no one thinks of you as a weak free loader for calling the cops if your house is being robbed.
The left will however call you racist and fascist for calling the cops.

>> No.13452141

Taximetered "neodigital-chauffeurs" are the perfect vector [bourgeois] for metacapital topologisation, specifically compared to analog-lumpen PEO (as a class, of course).

>> No.13452145

If you're calling the cops because black people are in a park, yes.
If you're calling the cops because your shit got robbed, no.

>> No.13452146

Reminder that the irish, italians, swedes etc lived in ethnic communities in the US until desegretation was enforced at gunpoint and everyone was dispersed and force-fed loads and loads of deracination propaganda.

>> No.13452148 [DELETED] 

> It's just another tool to divide the working class
The one of the most damaging things for the well being of the working class is immigration.

>> No.13452151

I'd rather take a lower wage if it meant I could live in a high trust ethnic society, thank you very much.

>> No.13452152

>>13452129 #
> It's just another tool to divide the working class
One of the most damaging things for the well being of the working class is immigration.

>> No.13452154

>is immigration under capitalism
The way the system is set up, the bourgeoisie can exploit it and pay immigrants less and work them harder.
People seeking a better life aren't your enemy. The guys who exploit you, are.

>> No.13452156
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>It's like, dude, brown people aren't fucking your life up

>> No.13452159

They have some nationalistic forces, but I'm not sure they have an actual plan for the (long term) future.
As a country it's not as unified, it's a bit too big and diverse. They'd do better if they split into 2 or 3 countries.

>> No.13452160

Yes, I too would like to live in squalor and go into ruinous debt when I break a leg so long as my debt collectors are white.

>> No.13452161

>People seeking a better life aren't your enemy
You wanna go run this by the native americans bro? How did all those pilgrims and settlers work out for them?

>> No.13452163

For 99% of human history being "right-wing" is being "normal."

>> No.13452167

Brown people are currently infecting you with diseases you have no immunity to and slaughtering you in your house?

>> No.13452168
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actually both are my enemies

>> No.13452170

Those "People" seek a better life at the expense of whites.
More competition for low skilled jobs, more taxes for welfare, more crime.
In general immigration is a form of colonialism, they are slowly taking over our land.
But i suppose colonialism was wrong only when done by the white devil.

>> No.13452172


>> No.13452175

>so yeah they actually do think that private companies are less centralized than government
They are, though?

>> No.13452176

Literally yes

>> No.13452181

Yes because without the immigration reform in 1965 whites were dying of hunger on the streets.
Thank god now we have brownies to save us from the horrors of capitalism.

>> No.13452183

Is /pol/ leaking again?

>> No.13452188

You do realise it's possible to have both?

>> No.13452197

you made the thread you have to deal with the consequences homo

>> No.13452199


>> No.13452205

>I think the basis of the left is a desire to increase overall happiness

Unhappiness in increasing though.
Leftists seem to think the end of the world is approaching because they his a bump in the road.
Massive drug epidemic.
Men dropping out of society.
Suicide rates are increasing.
Women are less happy then generations before.

WTF are you talking about? Are you literally retarded?

Please link to me a single indicator that happiness is increasing because I have never seen one.

>> No.13452208
File: 8 KB, 777x467, chin.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>I think the basis of the left is a desire to increase overall happiness and protect those who are unjustly targeted.
>What does the right have at this point?
see pic

Leftism is all but dead. BTC will be the final nail in the coffin.

>> No.13452214
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>dude, brown people aren't fucking your life up
Yeah, they are. They smell like shit, they drain every resource available (from housing to school to medical aid etc), they behave like shit (steal things, leave their trash out in the open etc) and they're just dumb, violent and disgusting.

>> No.13452216

Jews keep saying they want to destroy us though, and I mean literally saying it, out loud, while those who don't can be predictably outed as Jews based on nothing other then the level of subversion. You are a coward.

>> No.13452218

You sound near-illiterate. I'm surprised you can consistently type "central," much less "government." I mean that second must be a real whopper for you.
You're like a gnat, bouncing off a light. Is it really "no surprise there" that you assume your cynicism of politics to be an understanding? You only grasp liberalism as an epistemic presumption, and conservatism like a fucking hologram, but economics seems flat out invisible. Maybe there's a book you can buy that'll tell you all about how it works, or better yet, some plebtrash who'll opine you about his "real take" on whatever stews in his chamberpot brain.

>> No.13452225

I can't but (((Steven Pinker))) says everything is better and Bill Gates likes his books so everything is fine. Everything is fine. Stop noticing things goy.

>> No.13452244

Of course everything seems better to him, he'd never get to rape underage girls on an exotic island a hundred years ago

>> No.13452307 [DELETED] 

He and his tribe are literally raping white children every day.

>> No.13452365

No reason to make it directly based on IQ. IQ, discipline, and general knowledge are all factors that contribute to merit. At the end of the day, if you do better on relevant problem solving tests, are better student, etc, it shouldn't matter if someone has a 115 IQ or 120 IQ. Free state university doesn't mean anyone can get in. It just means if make it, you can have it for free. That will just increase the available talent pool and make competition fiercer.

>> No.13452381

I've never seen Pinker advocate for a left wing position. He seems like a neoliberal.

>> No.13452411


>> No.13452421

Based uncle Ted

>> No.13452446

Plus the insistence that all life's problems can be solved by working harder, that hard work (which is financially profitable in the long term) is a toxic mentality that not only decreases quality of human life, but is also shown to decrease productivity in the workplace. America is particularly susceptible to this, the insane work culture there contributing to massive dissatisfaction at work, and harming people's health and thus their effectiveness in work. This is something else the right doesn't seem to get.

>> No.13452593
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>spoonfeed me basic right winged political philosophy because I've never talked to a right winger in my life or given their perspective any thought at all beyond straw manning them as evil Nazis
Politics isn't for you OP. Just stick to your other hobbies.

>> No.13452622
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This is how they actually see themselves? Fucking hilarious.
But seriously educating women was a mistake.

>> No.13452642
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Most whites benefit from cheap immigrant labor in some way, at least short term.
Let's not pretend it's all so simple, as if whites dindu nuffin and are just being exploited by some external force.
They're doing it to themselves, with their retarded belief in endless economic growth and short term profits and whining over "omg an aging population" like it's the end of the world and like people haven't been through much worse times throughout history.
It's a population that has become soft and unambitious. It's understandable, because once you meet the base needs (food, shelter...) your instincts tell you you can just chill and turn your brain off. That's why you need to get a hold of your base instincts and not let them take over and instead cultivate the constant struggle for higher goals.

>> No.13452650

Immigrants are brought in explicitly to debase wages and inflate housing prices. Employers can't just pay their employees whatever they want and landlords can't just charge whatever they want for housing, they have to set their prices according to the market, and when the market is flooded by foreigners they can pay lower wages and charge more for housing. There's more to it than that obviously but immigration is by far the biggest factor in both of those problems today.

>> No.13452652

>anyone but establishment chode licking giga-liberals from SF is /pol/

>> No.13452654

Reminder that immigration has nothing to do with leftism and that free market ideology dictates there should be open borders.

>> No.13452662

>Most whites benefit from cheap immigrant labor in some way, at least short term.
No we absolutely do not. The white middle class has been absolutely gutted by mass migration and low wages. Mass migration ended the extremely long pattern of increases in wealth generation by generation, which ended with the Baby Boomers, and we've seen a general decrease in quality of life for whites since. It's obvious when you compare the lifestyles and financial situation of millenials to that of the boomers, you leftists should be well familiar with that.

>> No.13452672

Leftism in the current paradigm utilizes institutional (state & other) organs to force ordinary people to subsidize antisociality and the birthrates of people who wouldn't have stable enough living environments to breed without having resources funneled to them from the middle class. This situation is only somewhat stable because there is so much surplus wealth; if industries vital to this system start to falter even a little bit, the left will get really violent about making sure people with nothing to offer, that society never wanted to include in the first place, get what they need, taken from people at gunpoint.

>> No.13452687

Yeah I love getting my wage gutted, my taxmoney dumped in an endless abyss and my neighbourhood turned into a ghetto this surely has been a huge boon because I pay a few cents less for an avocado or something

>> No.13452690

There exists a non capitalist right, even if it's insignificant.
Also capitalism is a (classical) liberal idea.

>> No.13452697

Not real non capitalism

>> No.13452698

Yeah except leftists constantly push the narrative that class is the only thing that matters and I have more on common with the greasy turk running a shoddy kebab shop than my neighbour who is a well-paid engineer.

>> No.13452710

You do otherwise you wouldn't be posting on 4chan

>> No.13452719

The only real political divide:
Jewish cattle vs bad goyim

>> No.13452721

left and right is a framework invented by the left to benefit the left. So yeah, if you accept the framework then "right" indeed has nothing to offer because it is designed to be that way. The right are merely the loyal opposition.

>> No.13452725

Right wingers can be for open borders
Leftists can be for open borders
It's almost like your position on immigration isn't dependent on your position on the left-right spectrum.

>> No.13452730


>> No.13452750

>There exists a non capitalist right, even if it's insignificant.
Jesus Christ millenials are retarded.
>Also capitalism is a (classical) liberal idea.
No it's not, capitalism has existed since the dawn of tribes trading goods with one another, at least several thousand years ago. Capitalism as you consider it was conceptualized by Marx, not by any Liberal.

>> No.13452755

Leftists are barely ever against open borders, unless we stray into real meme territory like nazbol or something. Not a single left-wing party is against open borders in the whole of Europe as far as I know.

>> No.13452763

right-wing anti capitalism=return to agrarian feudal hierarchies and traditional religion
left-wing anti capitalism=let the system keep running and force it to pay for permanent vacation for everyone
both are bullshit copes thought up by people who can't into economics and power politics

>> No.13452775
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The basis of leftism is ressentiment.
Everything that followd, the manufactured wedge issues, the sexual/racial minority of the week, they're all just rationalizations to keep up the fight against the target of their ressentiment. That's why the shift from class-issues were so swift, the objections were never genuine only the targets.

>> No.13452785

The Hungarian Marxist party is against open borders. In the past many (most?) leftists were against open borders.

I don't see how open borders and socialism could work, it makes no sense to me. Maybe as some remote futuristic ideal, but in practice right now open borders only serves the capitalists.

>> No.13452794

Basing a rejection of an idealogy that's politically circumstantially linked with some position that's actually nonessential to it is kinda cringe my dude. Like, if you're deciding who to vote for, sure, take these trends into account, but you should be able to seperate whether healthcare should be socialized from whether there should be open borders as questions.

>> No.13452796

Radical pedophilia more like it.
Pleb b-list e-celeb fanboy detcted.

>> No.13452805

Proposing ideas that would prevent kids from being raped isn't pedophilia.

>> No.13452842

Rosseau put it best: "The philosopher loves the distant Tatar so as to avoid having to love his neighbour."

>> No.13452885

People are becoming fascists. Get over it.

>> No.13452935

How circumstantial is it when every leftist agrees on it?

>> No.13452943

Whites do benefit more than anyone from immigration because they’re generally not having to compete with immigrants for jobs, except for mcdicks jobs for their kids. The most harmed by immigration are minorities who are being imported competitors for low tier work. Black people in the us are the poorest people in the world because there’s an illegal mexican working the arco cash register instead of them.

>> No.13452981

All the studies I've seen show that immigration only slightly lowers wages for high school dropouts. Either way the anger should be directed at the corporations who refuse to pay people a living wage while their CEO's earn in a day what the workers earn in a year. The solution is not to kick all brownies out but to raise the minimum wage and tax corporations. It's a very slimy tactic the right uses to blame immigrants for the plight of the working class while companies pay them less than a living wage.

>> No.13453015

Why can’t we do fucking both? It’s a basic fact that immigrants take low skill jobs that could propel low skill natives as well as a fact that more workers mean lower wages. Post your studies you disingenuous lefty fuck.

>> No.13453016

>mexican "anarchist" milicia trying to be part of the gov
>sp*nish anarchists being supplied by soviets and used as cannon fodder
the absolute state of anarchism, a communist punching bag

>> No.13453037

Because immigrants are a benefit to the economy. The only downside is the fact that they, as you say, drive down wages; but I propose to remedy this by taxing corporations and raising the minimum wage. In America there's a class called the "working poor" -- people who have jobs but are still below the poverty line because they don't get paid enough. That is just unacceptable. Sure, we can kick out all immigrants and destroy the economy in the process, or we can work towards a more progressive tax system which will guarantee a better life for the working classes.

>> No.13453040

Lmao immigrants are a huge net drain on society and even the leftists are not trying to claim that they are anymore

>> No.13453060

What do you mean by drain on society? That's arbitrary nonsense.

>> No.13453062

>They didn't have the same conception of race and ethnicity that we do today.
We did.
The japanese noted how northern peoples loathed to marry outside their own race and there are very obvious racial writings dating back to kushite egypt and forward.

>> No.13453073

They take out way way more tax dollars than they pay in, leading to infrastructure and services not being properly maintained because we just imported half a million literal bloodsuckers.

>> No.13453077

Explain how socialized healthcare implies you should have open borders, retard.

>> No.13453078

That's just not true. For example, the Roman's view of race was that Roman = good and non-roman = bad. There were quite a lot of black people who were Romans and they were seen as superior to non-romans.

>> No.13453080

>read a book
>that is equally if not more retarded than the comic
There's a reason why there's no anarchist government in the world or fuck even history

>> No.13453086

That's not true. It is economical consensus that immigration is good for the economy. Illegal immigrants don't pay taxes, yes, but that's because they're illegal. If they were given citizenship then they would have to pay taxes.

>> No.13453089

>That's just not true. For example, the Roman's view of race was that Roman = good and non-roman = bad.
lol american history.
The romans had civil wars over giving other romans on the italian peninsula full citizenship, something tertiary peoples with only latin rights never managed before the "any legionary gets to be a citizen " and subsequent fall of west Rome.

>> No.13453092

Retarded and leftpilled. There's are reason why the Americans have the best education in the world by a metric ton compared to anyone else and its not because of your retarded right-wing strawman.

>> No.13453093

>Roman writers described people with physical characteristics of sub-Saharan Africans as "Aethiopes", but the term carried no social implications.[6] There was no such thing as a black community; immigrants from south of the Sahara were few and from disparate ethnic communities. The immigrants would have been separated from each other in households of white people, and if they had descendants these would have blended within very few generations into the local population.[6] While slavery was a deeply-stigmatized social status, the great majority of slaves were from European and Mediterranean populations; inherited physical characteristics were not relevant to slave status.[6] Black people were not excluded from any profession, and there was usually no stigma or bias against mixed race relationships in Antiquity.[7]

>> No.13453129

Most leftist ideas are wishy washy kid dreams of having a better life without knowing how or wanting to do it, it's fucking retarded

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