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/lit/ - Literature


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13449214 No.13449214 [Reply] [Original]

Was he right?

>> No.13449220

No. Are you stupid?

>> No.13449242

>>13449214
>diagnosis
Right
>prognosis
Wrong

>> No.13449253

>>13449214
>diagnosis
Wrong
>prognosis
Right

>> No.13449289

>>13449214
I haven't read it yet, but it's probably the next one I'll read. I believe the ultimate destiny of Western civilization is that it will destroy itself with its own technology.

>> No.13449299

>>13449289
so you one of them acelerator folk

>> No.13449302

>>13449253
Only correct answer itt

>> No.13449306

>>13449289
Fool, we haven't even destroyed ourself with nuclear bombs and we have HUNDREDS of them in the world. The western civilization is invincible.

>> No.13449316

>>13449306
You can only say that because it hasn't destroyed itself yet. Once it does there will probably be no one around to disprove that claim lmao

>> No.13449317

>>13449299
No, it will happen on its own eventually.
>>13449306
You think this era of peace between the major powers of the world will last forever? That's Francis Fukuyama tier shortsightedness.

>> No.13449336

>>13449316
>>13449317
>the world is going to end
Go shout at clouds or something old farts. Nothing's ever going to happen.

>> No.13449363
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13449363

>>13449336
>Nothing's ever going to happen.
Very true. Nothing ever happens.

>> No.13449374

The programmer of our simulation dislikes extinction

>> No.13449389

>>13449336
Nobody said the world's going to end. Just that the West will destroy itself. No other civilization in history has been so obsessed with bending nature to its will through the use of machines. Since the time the first mechanical clock was invented our civilization has had a spiritual need to control, or abuse, nature, and trying to deny our instinct is pointless. That's why I think renewable energy and all the talk about global warming is just hot air. But nature will have her revenge on us in the end. Either that, or we'll destroy ourselves in nuclear war. Maybe both. And it will happen by the end of this century.

>> No.13449410

>>13449214
He's right.

>> No.13449441

>>13449389
>No other civilization in history has been so obsessed with bending nature to its will through the use of machines
Every other civilization in history has tried to bend nature to its will, they just didn't know how to invent machines because they were stupid people, so they tried magic alchemy and other shit. The west is smart enough to create the machines, it will be smart enough to keep them in check. It has been so far. The chinks don't count for obvious reasons.

>invented our civilization has had a spiritual need to control, or abuse, nature, and trying to deny our instinct is pointless
Thinking in memes is a good sign of a fried brain. You've been reading too many books, buddy. The civilization is not a conscious entity, it doesn't have spiritual needs, that's just stupid. Even if what you said wasnt just bloated garbage, why is it pointless to deny our instinct? Do you mean impossible? If it's not impossible, then why is it pointless?
>That's why I think renewable energy and all the talk about global warming is just hot air.
Doesn't follow.
>But nature will have her revenge on us in the end. Either that, or we'll destroy ourselves in nuclear war. Maybe both.
You mean like hurricanes or volcanoes erupting? Or global warming? None of that's gonna do shit to the civilization, it's literally invincible at this point. Maybe wipe out a fraction of the low-income population. Who cares.
>In a hundred years, the world will end.
Sounds about right...

How old are you by the way?

>> No.13449451

>>13449214
Ellul was kind of pessimistic in the sense he didn't know what to do with the Technological Phenomenon, it actually seems unstoppable, but he didn't propose anything.
Ted went full pessimistic and postulates that the TP is actually unstoppable, and goes further stating that human history is essentially chaotic (mathematical chaotic) in nature and any attempt to steer it is doomed to fail. Gives a list of historical accounts to support this thesis then
>I didn't read the rest of the book
...
he decided the best thing was to mail pipebombs to people

>> No.13449455
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13449455

>>13449441
/pol/ or /his/ brainlet I take it?

>> No.13449466

>>13449455
What point do you disagree with and why?

>> No.13449470

>>13449441
>Civilization is not a conscious entity

Holy shit! This man just destroyed sociology, they will write about this thread in history books!

>> No.13449476

>>13449214
nope

>> No.13449479

>>13449470
Why do you think it's a conscious entity?

>> No.13449492

>>13449441
You sound like a retard in this post. Thinking must be hard for you.

>> No.13449496

>>13449466
Your "all human history was simply the prelude to the Industrial Revolution" mindset and also
>You've been reading too many books, buddy

>> No.13449500

>>13449492
>I can't articulate what I disagree with in your post so I will just say you sound stupid
Ok moron, now leave me alone.

>> No.13449502

>>13449496
I never claimed that. What made you think I hold this mindset? Also I don't.

>> No.13449507

>>13449502
>Every other civilization in history has tried to bend nature to its will, they just didn't know how to invent machines because they were stupid people

>> No.13449520

>>13449507
Absolutely. Pre industrial revolution history was history too, just more primitive.

>> No.13449601

>>13449363
>>13449336
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHVqxD8PNq8

>> No.13449623
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13449623

>>13449441
>they just didn't know how to invent machines because they were stupid people, so they tried magic alchemy and other shit.

>> No.13449645
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13449645

Yes, now read this:

>> No.13449664

>>13449645
Fuck off, Sean.

>> No.13449732

>>13449214
>was a crazy terrorist right?
Actually, yes

>> No.13449736

>>13449214
>>13449242
>>13449253
>Shit
Fuck
>Ass
Fuck Ass.

>> No.13450501

>>13449214
I'm interested in understanding the widening disparity between the common people and monolithic conglomerates and how advancing technology is threatening to undermine human life to a potentially irreversible degree. Now, this looks like a good place to start, but I sure as fuck don't want to be put on a list for reading a terrorist's work. Is it worth it to go forth and hunt his books down?

Note: To all CIA, NSA, and FBI agents reading this, I will absolutely not send bombs to people I don't like because I'm not that big of a faggot and am not willing to endanger my ability to live somewhat freely by doing that.

>> No.13451288
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13451288

>>13449441
>because they were stupid people, so they tried magic alchemy and other shit
Back to /reddit/ you moron

>> No.13452088

>>13449451
no he decides to send pipe bombs to gain publicity so that his ideas could be heard. He did the right thing otherwise you wouldn't have heard about him

>> No.13452138

>>13449214
>Marine biology is a surrogate activity engaged in by a Japanese emperor
>I personally don't like marine biology
>Therefore, all surrogate activities are intrinsically incapable of providing any sort of enjoyment or meaning in a life

Tedfags may claim I am misrepresenting him. I invite any and all of them to give a more charitable reconstruction of his argument on the failure of surrogate activities, using only his texts as their basis.

Protip: all the interesting parts of Ted's thought is bootleg Heidegger. The rest is, like the above, completely incoherent

>> No.13452195

>>13449441
>smart enough to create the machines, it will be smart enough to keep them in check
Not true at all. You can't even keep nukes in check, and those are managed at a state level. Can't take them away from Russia, China, India/Pakistan, NK, and it's a matter of time before Iran becomes a nuclear power as well. Can't stop these states from selling them on the black market either.

In the future you could probably conceive of weapons that can be made on the group/individual level. Autonomous weapons made from pirated code and consumer hardware, bio-weapons. The only way you'll be able to keep it all in check is to cancel freedom once and for all, and surveil the whole planet

>> No.13452234

>>13452138
64. Most of us suffer a lack of purpose and “fulfillment” because artificial goals and surrogate activities cannot satisfy the power process need. This must be satisfied through external goals (survival, sex, love, status, revenge, etc.)

>survival
not at war
>sex, love
social outcast
>status
too misanthropic to teach. not widely appreciated for pure maths. probably should've been a scientist
>revenge
this one

shame, if he was born like 20 years later he might be inventing AGI right now

>> No.13452401

Mostly yes

>> No.13452434

>>13449214
Yes, obviously.

>> No.13452441

>>13449220
You replied no though which proves that it's you that is indeed stupid.

>> No.13452585

>>13452088
>I will make gross and reprehensible terrorism attacks so my ideas and the one of those who analyzed the Technological Phenomenon will be perpetually viewed as malignant and dangerous
Yeah what a propaganda mastermind

>> No.13452604

>>13449214
Yes, and there's nothing we can do about it.

>> No.13452937

>>13452585
no such thing as bad publicity

>> No.13453166

>>13449214
Good description, bad prescription as with a lot of kooky high iq people who are ahead of their time. Marx is the same.

>> No.13453179

>>13449601
nicolas cage is right

>> No.13453181

>>13449214
Yes but his solution was a spergy mess.

>> No.13453477

>>13452195
>cancel freedom once and for all, and surveil the whole planet

This is already happening. Nobles and lords have employed vast spy networks in order to surveil their kingdoms and they used to shit in buckets. Today, every internet connected device is surveiled either directly or in an automated fashion through hardware level backdoors and Internet cable choke points where data is automatically analyzed. Satellites are used to scour every square mile of the globe and are readily used to track dissidents that are eluding other forms of surveillance, typically if they have gone completely dark and abstain entirely from using public infrastructures such as the Internet and cell towers, and that's if they aren't already being tracked by drones. Most new cars have embedded GPS and GSM hardware which sends data to the car manufacturer that is freely sharing that data with law enforcement worldwide, not to mention a microphone that actively sends voice data to the manufacturer as well and can be covertly activated at will.

If you don't drive a computerized vehicle, abstain from using Internet connected devices, have absolutely no history as or affiliation with a dissident or overly suspicious individuals, and essentially haven't affiliated yourself with any persistent IDs that would give you away, then you could make the claim that you're not being surveilled. Otherwise, there are multiple databases out there with pertinent information describing you as a person, linked with behaviors, habits, social networks, desires, preferences, and MANY other data points that can be used to determine whether or not you are capable of becoming a 'threat to society' if you aren't already. Global surveillance has been here for some time.

>> No.13453657

>>13453477
Yes but as technology grows the granularity of the surveillance must shrink. Easier to spot nuclear facilities from satellite than a bio-virus lab. Any international blindspots (ie Russia, China) become more and more of an existential risk

>> No.13453694
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13453694

>haha bro everything's fine

>> No.13453737

>>13450501
Do you understand how those intelligence organizations work? Lol, they’re not gonna hunt down a basement dweller for reading Uncle Ted

>> No.13454667

>>13449316
asians will be around
roaches can survive a nuclear fallout

>> No.13454673
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13454673

>>13449253
Uhhhhhhhhhhhh, Based?

>> No.13454697

>>13450501
you come across as a faggot

>> No.13454703

>>13449441
This is the common mindset of the right wing, don't be surprised.

>> No.13455240

>>13450501
fag

>>13452138
I'm not going to quote directly but he doesn't say it's a surrogate activity because he personally dislikes it, it's a surrogate activity because it is an artificial goal pursued with zest that would "normally" be directed to life-sustaining activities. He also doesn't say they don't provide enjoyment, just that they're modern distractions. Some "surrogate activities" can actually still be something people want or need even when they are putting most of their efforts into survival, he gives the examples of sex/love and later certain types of art that would constitute artistic or personal expression.

>> No.13455288

>>13450501
just read Spengler and John Michael Greer instead

>> No.13455349

>>13455288
What books do you recommend of Greer, I was looking at The Long Descent and Dark Age America

>> No.13455435
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13455435

>>13455349
I've mostly only read his blogs
http://archdruidmirror.blogspot.com/
https://www.ecosophia.net/

But The Long Descent was the book I started with. Dark Age America should be good for this subject matter too, along with pretty much all of pic related.

>> No.13455668

i am convinced that all those kaczynski threads lately are started by the same guy who then acts as a turbonormie positivist redditor in order to get people to seriously consider teds ideas

>>
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