/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.13445148]

>materialism is irrefuta-
not so fast

[Anonymous No.13445152]

>nasr

Reminder his master and teacher was Schuon. Now google "vertical wives." Islam is degenerate.

[Anonymous No.13445151]

Refute it then

[Anonymous No.13445156]

>>13445152
>vertical wives
nothing comes up

[Anonymous No.13445176]

>>13445148
HOLY FUCKING BASED

[Anonymous No.13445182]

>>13445148
all those books are material though

[Anonymous No.13445328]

>Implying matter and spirit are separate materials
Take the panpsychism pill

[Anonymous No.13445333]

>>13445152
Imagine thinking this is a rebuttal

[Anonymous No.13445334]

>>13445328
>implying my smart phone is as conscious as I am

take the panexperientiality pill

[Anonymous No.13445341]

>>13445151
There's no reason to believe in it

[Anonymous No.13445366]

>>13445334
you are your smartphone

[Anonymous No.13445400]

>>13445148
>posting theological and traditionalist stuff only
>not posting any of the historical and existing secular refutations of materialism
Materialism is wrong whether or not God exists.

[Anonymous No.13445403]

>>13445400
Got any books/authors besides Whitehead?

[Anonymous No.13445406]

Nothing supports materialism

[Anonymous No.13445407]

>>13445328
no such thing as matter

[Anonymous No.13445417]

>>13445403

[Anonymous No.13445422]

>easternism
cringed and ignored

[Anonymous No.13445453]

>>13445422
>discounting the assorted wisdom of mankind because of "muh hometown team is the best"

[Anonymous No.13445464]

>>13445403
In support of subjective idealism: Berkeley and Fichte.
In support of objective idealism: Schelling, Hegel
In support of a sort of phenomenalist neutral monism: Hume, Russell, Carnap, Broad, Price.
In support of either substance or property dualism: Descartes, Nagel, Kripke, Jackson, Chalmers.
Work that assists a dualist conception: Searle, Levine.

[Anonymous No.13445486]

>>13445148
What's commonly referred as materialism isn't materialism but symbolism

[Anonymous No.13445490]

>>13445486
Expound on this?

[Anonymous No.13445514]

>>13445464
>Searle
>dualist
>The bankruptcy of the Cartesian tradition, and the absurdity of supposing that there are two kinds of substances or properties in the world, "mental" and "physical," is so threatening to us and has such a sordid history that we are reluctant to concede anything that might smack of Cartesianism. We are reluctant to concede any of the commonsense facts that sound "Cartesian," because it seems that if we accept the facts, we will have to accept the whole of Cartesian metaphysics. Any sort of mentalism that recognizes the obvious facts of our existence is regarded as automatically suspect. At the most extreme, some philosophers are reluctant to admit the existence of consciousness because they fail to see that the mental state of consciousness is just an ordinary biological, that is, physical, feature of the brain. Perhaps even more exasperatingly, they are aided in this error by those philosophers who cheerfully acknowledge the existence of consciousness and inso doing suppose they must be asserting the existence of something nonphysical. The view that consciousness, mental states, etc., exist, in the most naive and obvious sense, and play a real causal role in our behavior has nothing special to do with Cartesian dualism. After all, one does not have to read the Meditations to be conscious that one is conscious or that one's desires, as mental phenomena, conscious or unconscious, are real causal phenomena. But when one reminds philosophers of these "Cartesian intuitions," one is immediately accused of Cartesianism. I have, personally speaking, been accused of holding some crazy doctrine of "property dualism" and "privileged access," or believing in "introspection" or "neovitalism" or even "mysticism, "even though I have never, implicitly or explicitly, endorsed any of these views.

[Anonymous No.13445532]

>>13445148
Nobody said materialism was irrefutable. They said everything else was unfalsifiable.

[Anonymous No.13445535]

>>13445148
How do they refute it?

[Anonymous No.13445538]

>>13445514
He's literally listed not as supporting dualism but as having work that assists a dualist conception. His Chinese room attack on reducing semantics to syntax gave dualists ammunition. Materialist reductionists to this day hate Searle for it and they spend a lot of time and effort criticizing his argument because they know it ends up assisting the dualist cause. It doesn't matter whether Searle is a dualist when his work assists a dualist conception, and both dualists and materialists know this.

[Anonymous No.13445541]

>>13445532
Materialism is unfalsifiable.

[Anonymous No.13445548]

>>13445538
Arguing against materialism is not arguing for dualism. That's his point.

[Anonymous No.13445554]

>>13445548
I get that. The point I'm making is that dualists look at Searle's work and start using it to support their view, and materialists look at Searle's work and feel dismayed and go on the offensive. Hence his work assists a dualist conception. This doesn't mean he is arguing for dualism, it means his work can be and has been used by dualists regardless of Searle's own views.

[Anonymous No.13445568]

>recall, that matter is really mind.

[Anonymous No.13445608]

>>13445538
based searle, is the chinese room argument one of the most impregnable arguments in philosophy (up there with Mary's Room) or is there something I'm missing?

[Anonymous No.13445629]

>>13445148
>I'm such a pathetic human being, I am failing at life, I have nothing to enjoy because of that so I'm going to pretend I live for something higher than that with an optional afterlife of eternal bliss
This shit is literally the fox and the grapes taken to the extreme, cope harder materialets go die and start the afterlife (you won't and you know it) and stop trying to shit everything up for the rest of us by pretending enjoying life is sinful you sad sacks of shit.

[Anonymous No.13445645]

>>13445417
>materialism is wrong and I will prove it by doing material things in the material world
>now kids wanna hear some spiritual mumbo jumbo I just came up with ?

[Anonymous No.13445662]

>>13445629
>This shit is literally the fox and the grapes taken to the extreme, cope harder materialets go die and start the afterlife (you won't and you know it) and stop trying to shit everything up for the rest of us by pretending enjoying life is sinful you sad sacks of shit.

[Anonymous No.13445668]

>>13445645
Don't be afraid of new ideas. Your mom can't force you to go to church on Sunday anymore.

[Anonymous No.13445676]

>>13445668
Eh, she'll cut off access to my kid cousins if I don't go and I don't think I can live without seeing them more than twice a year

[Anonymous No.13445709]

>>13445662
>no argument
What's the point of arguing with people who believe in metaphysical gibberish that can't be proven nor disproven to be real ? They'll just keep believing their arbitrary garbage and spout dead memes all day under anonymity because in a real debate with an audience they'd get laughed out of the room if they tried that.
How is failing at life so much you isolate yourself from life itself the antithesis of the soiboy ? How does that make you better ? Chad is a materialist, virgins hide in their rooms making excuses thinking about higher purposes. Cope harder retard.

[Anonymous No.13445711]

>>13445629
Low IQ post, please go to a different board.

[Anonymous No.13445718]

>>13445668
>new ideas
Such as ? What flavor of the century spiritual mumbo jumbo do you believe in in order to feel like an unique snowflake ? Did Chad fuck your oneitis so you turned to some religion to win in the end knowing he will suffer forever ?

[Anonymous No.13445722]

>>13445709
>Materialism isn't metaphysics

[Anonymous No.13445726]

>>13445711
Kill yourself you coping shit. Tell me what garbage you believe in so I can laugh at how much of a sad brainlet you are.

[Anonymous No.13445735]

>>13445722
>one line response
Like clockwork, couldn't expect more from materialet brainlets.

[Anonymous No.13445752]

>>13445148
The best way to stop a meterialet failed human from blabbering about nonsensical, impossible to prove concepts is to tell them to have sex.
It ruins the poor guys, reminds them of the sad days when they were normal like the rest of us before they ''asceded'' to a higher plane of thinking and living.
It's really funny, brings back so much latent frustration to them, you can already see it in this thread.

[Anonymous No.13445820]

>>13445629
Yikes

[Anonymous No.13445822]

>>13445726
>needing 'theology' to refute materialism
lmaoing at you volcel retards harking back to medieval fucking islam just to 'btfo' materialism when QM has pretty much put both you and materialists into shame.

[Anonymous No.13446229]

>>13445752
>The best way to stop a meterialet failed human from blabbering about nonsensical, impossible to prove concepts is to tell them to have sex.
>It ruins the poor guys, reminds them of the sad days when they were normal like the rest of us before they ''asceded'' to a higher plane of thinking and living.
>It's really funny, brings back so much latent frustration to them, you can already see it in this thread.

[Anonymous No.13446237]

>>13445822
QM is just Neoplatonism. Bohr, Heisenberg, Pauli, Schrödinger, they were all disciples of Plato.

[Anonymous No.13446705]

>>13445822
QM is materialism by default. No spooky ghosts there.

[Anonymous No.13446730]

The part of materialism hardly anyone ever talks about, the materialists or those against them, is that when pursued to its ultimate end materialism does not do away with the spooky and weird but, rather, denies the necessity of dualism for their existence. For example God exists, and he has a name and address. People have been working for aeons to locate the physical co-ordinates of this universe's deity, and they don't all agree on what to do when they find him. It is the scarlet thread that runs through history.

[Anonymous No.13446782]

>>13446705
>what are hidden local variables

[Anonymous No.13446961]

>>13446782
something reduced to mere god of gaps?

[Anonymous No.13448310]

>>13445453
It's not wisdom.

[Anonymous No.13448365]

>>13445453
>we iz wise n shiet ytboa

[Anonymous No.13448366]

>"Oh, you know, I only trust what I see"
>can't see the act of seeing
Materialism btfo

[Anonymous No.13448369]

>>13448310
t. brainlet

[Anonymous No.13448373]

Materialism is totally reconcilable with everything else, and only a fool would believe that to adhere to it would mean abandoning some other principle or worldview.

[Anonymous No.13448376]

>>13448373
this

[Anonymous No.13448412]

>>13448365
the Greeks loved to praise eastern wisdom

[Anonymous No.13448483]

>>13448412
and that's why their society collapsed into decadent orientalism in the hellenistic age

[Anonymous No.13448507]

>>13445366

This, but unironically
Exited for my shrooms + nitrous tomorrow while meditating and reading holy books

[Anonymous No.13448681]

That materialism and nothingness is scary in anyway is the biggest stupid meme of the modern world invented by dopey retards.

[Anonymous No.13448686]

>>13445148
please don't imply that materialism can only be refuted by theism, regardless of how valid and strong the theological arguments are: that just fuels the nihilist's "heh I don't need to believe in a skydaddy heh" shit.
Even basic epistemology is enough to dunk on materialism

[Anonymous No.13448697]

>>13445735
Materialism is metaphysics whether you like it or not. Materialism is a substance metaphysics - ie unfalsifiable conjecture

[Anonymous No.13448787]

(the most parsimonous ontology is actually a sort of non-dualist idealism)

[Anonymous No.13448798]

>materialism is false
>eats lunch

[Anonymous No.13448829]

>>13445148
Cope
Advances in neuroscience within this century will make any other worldview outside materialism completely untenable. Enjoy the last couple of decades you can still hold onto your delusion.

[Anonymous No.13448869]

>>13448829
bruh most people can't even operate a naturally grown nervous system you think shocky shocky stem cell magic is going to change that

[Anonymous No.13448888]

>>13448829
>says the increasingly nervous materialist for the 10th time

[Anonymous No.13448941]

>>13448829
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxalrwPNkNI&frags=pl%2Cwn

People have been hoping to clear up all of life's questions with materialism ever since the steam train was invented.

It's mistaking analogy for actuality. Experimental science and technique run analoguos to to the workings of our minds because we impose our modes of thinking onto our perceptions.

If anyone's LARPing it's the naturalists and materialists.

[Anonymous No.13448988]

>>13445148
All things are material to the existence known as God. Since I believe in God I am also materialist. Ita est.

[Anonymous No.13449119]

Universe = Consciousness = You = Me = Everything = The One = God = The Absolute

[Anonymous No.13449131]

>>13448888
Nervous about what? Materialism absolutely dominates all related fields of study

[Anonymous No.13449139]

Just eat a fistful of DPH LMAO

[Anonymous No.13449141]

>>13449119
God won't be very pleased with you trying to set yourself up to be the same as him. We're just his puppets anon.

[Anonymous No.13449142]

>>13445151
Memes.

[Anonymous No.13449159]

>>13449141
That’s not what I did
But I probably wasnt really clear with my confused ramblings

[Anonymous No.13449187]

>>13449141

Are you saying you know what pleases God? Aren’t you equating yourself with God by saying you understand Him, His motivations and inclinations? How would you know what God wants or what (dis)pleases Him?

[Anonymous No.13449191]

>>13449141
>We're just his puppets anon.
More like his art, but we must have some agency of our own.

[Anonymous No.13449192]

>>13445328
>implying a cut of meat has feelings

Take the emergentism pill

[Anonymous No.13449199]

>>13449187
I can derive basic information on the nature of God by looking at the world we live in.

[Anonymous No.13449722]

geunonfagging needs to be bannable, these threads are just circle-jerks for right-wing extremists masquerading as spiritual gurus. this is a catholic socialist board.

[Anonymous No.13449724]

>>13445182
not their ideas, though.

[Anonymous No.13450928]

>>13445709
you are the living proof of the metaphysical deterioration of essence. the end is near.

[Anonymous No.13450950]

>>13449724
The ideas are ink on paper, that are communicated either by the vibration of matter or the reflection of matter in to your eyeballs made of matter where they are decoded by a series of chemical and electrical reactions within the matter of your brain.

[Anonymous No.13451151]

>frog meme traditionalism

The internet just keeps getting weirder

[Anonymous No.13451315]

>>13451151
Realize that memes and all that shit aren't new and is a method to manipulate society