1984

[Anonymous No.13443645]

Am I the only one that thinks this book is infantile?
>there's a big government and it's MEAN and OPPRESSIVE
It was uninsightful. It was literally fiction. It appealed to extremely plebian sentiments of comic-bookish totalitarianism.
Honestly what I would expect from a Spanish Republican: railing against some inexplicable caricature of oppression, to justify your murderous communistic position

[Anonymous No.13443657]

>>13443645
its about the abuse of language and how it can control people

[Anonymous No.13443665]

I thought the opposite when I finally got around to reading it. I expected a simplistic black and white story advocating against totalitarianism but honestly there are much better arguments made for ingsoc than against it in there.

[Anonymous No.13443685]

>>13443665
I read it as one of the first of my politically-minded books, but as I went around the block reading and assessing the different camps, now Orwell's caricature looks silly.
I ought to read Homage to Catalonia, but having read the events of the Spanish Civil War I only think less of his socialist-anarchist position

[Anonymous No.13443689]

>>13443645
>infantile
Am I the only one getting tired of lefties using character assassination rhetoric because they have no points to make aside from that I should be having sex?
>inb4 have sex

[Anonymous No.13443699]

>>13443689
>tired of lefties using character assassination rhetoric
You are aware George Orwell was about as left as it gets?

[Anonymous No.13443727]

>>13443699
"lefties" refer more to a class of people than the ideologies they adhere to, and others that share those ideologies do not necessarily count as part of that class of people

Also, exactly the kind of rhetoric I'm talking about, always relies on the merit of character of the author as the basis of criticism, instead the ideas presented themselves.

[Anonymous No.13443743]

>>13443699
Orwell was a British lower upper middle class socialist of the muscular red toryist type, about as far removed from current leftists as you can get.

[Anonymous No.13443766]

>>13443727
>"lefties" refer more to a class of people than the ideologies they adhere to
That's fucking stupid. Call them onions/bugmen like normal 4Channers.

>always relies on the merit of character of the author as the basis of criticism
OP attacked it for being uninsightful and building a political worldview on fiction. Calling it infantile was only a conclusion.

[Anonymous No.13443770]

>>13443699
“Liberal: a power worshipper without power”
Orwell

[Anonymous No.13443791]

>>13443766
>That's fucking stupid.
And now it's my turn to be assassinated.

>Call them onions/bugmen like normal 4Channers.
Weak attempt to establish yourself as an oldfag.

>OP attacked it for being uninsightful and building a political worldview on fiction.
How does the OP's cock taste? Or is OP sucking your dick? Either way you are a massive faggot.

>Calling it infantile was only a conclusion.
Only by design.

[Anonymous No.13443813]

>>13443770
I don't conflate Liberals with Marxist

>>13443743
Yet still a Marxist, and a proponent of extreme forms of leftism the likes of which we saw with the Spanish Republicans

>>13443791
I am OP
>Only by design
By design of reading the book. What are you trying to prove here, you self-victimized faggot?

[Anonymous No.13443828]

My favorite is when neurotic politcally obsessed retards reference this book acting like it's full of insight that society doesn't allow, even though every high school in America reads it

[Anonymous No.13443843]

>>13443813
>What are you trying to prove here
That you are a faggot.

[Anonymous No.13443848]

>>13443770
>"When I joined the militia I had promised myself to kill one Fascist — after all, if each of us killed one they would soon be extinct"
Orwell :)

[Anonymous No.13443906]

>>13443848
>"The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so far as it signifies “something not desirable”."
Orwell :^)

[Anonymous No.13443909]

>>13443848
>gets BTFO by the Falange

[Anonymous No.13443917]

>>13443906
>from fasces, meaning a bundle of sticks
It means a bunch of faggots.

[Anonymous No.13443928]

>>13443645

it could be all of those negative things that you mentioned, and it still functions as a perfect instruction manual. if you can't relate the ideas in that book to all of the sjw bullshit that we deal with today regarding words, then you need help thinking about things

[Anonymous No.13444022]

>>13443645
>infantile book
No, in case you haven't noticed, it is the government that is infantile in its behaviour.

[Anonymous No.13444139]

>>13443645
>It was literally fiction
Imagine actually typing this.

[Anonymous No.13444143]

>>13443689
It's just zoomers, not lefties specifically

[Anonymous No.13444164]

>>13443645
I liked it for the metaphysical concept of complete control

[Anonymous No.13444217]

>>13444164
>I liked it for the metaphysical concept of complete control

[Anonymous No.13444311]

>>13444164
There isn't a complete control though.

[Anonymous No.13444589]

>>13443645
Imagine missing the point of such a simple book. This is the book, OP >>13443657 and it is actually pertinent today though reality is obviously far more chaotic and nuanced. Read any news article even vaguely relating to politics if you want proof.

[Anonymous No.13445290]

Most people think they're Winston Smith or Julia. Actually, they're more than ready to engage in doublethink and become thought police agents the moment their ideology or belief system gets even the tiniest bit of scrutiny or criticism. People who tend to use the NPC meme are among the worst cases of this.

[Anonymous No.13445313]

>>13443645
Just admit you read the cliffsnotes like the rest of your reddit faggot friends

[Anonymous No.13445382]

>>13445290
based and redpilled

[Anonymous No.13445495]

I think Orwell justifies big brother in a way. Because all these liberties that are granted to us only give way to the overhaul and degradation to our current system and what’s the use of free speech if people don’t care and there’s no objective truth. Big brother is an inevitability. Like we view the world from Winston not the average normie that doesn’t care. Even Julia cares about nothing, but knows how to cheat the system in the way. In the us communist parties etc. are openly supported because in a way they’re aligned with the system, but race realists are threats so they’re shut down. It shows that free speech never existed in a sense.

[Anonymous No.13445506]

>>13443917
based

[Anonymous No.13445566]

>>13443645
The book is based on orwells time working for the bbc and having to be a part of the political machine that is Britain.

What happens in the book, the parties that control every aspect of the populations lives is real and is happening 24/7 you're delusional if you think it's not happening now.

You sound like the most ignorant retard saying what you've just said, get the fuck off /lit/ and may god have mercy on your soul

[Anonymous No.13445593]

>>13443645

>it's a true look at communism!!!!

t. brainlets

[Anonymous No.13445981]

>>13445593
>Le stupid liberals like Big brudder!!

[Anonymous No.13446003]

>>13444139
Imagine having OP’s brain, imagine not having a fundamental idea of what an allegory is. OP neck yourself, and by the way, fuck big tech.

[Anonymous No.13446020]

>>13445495
>liberties
>granted to us

[2nd amendment noises]

[Anonymous No.13446114]

>>13443645
>Am I the only one that thinks this book is infantile?
No, there's bound to be atleast a few more imbeciles alive today.

[Anonymous No.13447526]

>>13443645
bump

[Anonymous No.13447595]

>>13447526
Shut up OP

[Anonymous No.13447607]

>>13447595
I'm not Op i just don't have the time to read the thread.

[Anonymous No.13447794]

>>13443645
His ideas aren't really new. All he did was explain and dramatise to its extreme what was going on in the Soviet Union. That's not to say its useless, but unlike Brave New World it doesn't really provide psychological / philosophical insights that could otherwise be gained by just studying 20th century

[Anonymous No.13448025]

OP is correct, Orwell leaves nothing up to the reader's critical ability. He has a part in the book where the main character of the book finds a book which describes in detail a solid 75% of the theory and points behind the book in a formal manner, as a "plot device". It's dogshit, just like Animal Farm is dogshit, and OP is correct that it's infantile because everything is spoonfed to you like you're an incapable child. You're retarded if you think 1984 is actually good literature.

>>13443791
>Boohoo someone called me names on 4chan and I'm really sad now because it's not the correct way to argue
This is such shit bait and I weep for this website.

[Anonymous No.13448039]

>>13448025
>you’re retarded if you think 1984 is actually good literature
My fucking sides

[Anonymous No.13448043]

>>13447794
Of you genuinely like Brave New World you’re a fucking autistic dimwit

[Anonymous No.13448079]

>>13443645
It's funny how you think this "inexplicable caricature of oppression" is somehow pro-communist. Animal farm and 1984 were both about how the communist revolution in Russia led to totalitarianism. In both of those books Orwell is critiquing communist revolutions and warning against the tendency that communism has to be co-opted by dictators. Orwell, himself a socialist, was writing his books to critique his own side of the spectrum, not to put up a capitalist boogeyman as per your interpretation. I'm sure this is impossible to conceive for you, given how much you sound like an ideologue.

[Anonymous No.13448094]

>>13447794
1984 outclassed Brave New World by a milestone

[Anonymous No.13448567]

>>13443699
how could you be so fucking retarded you would think the man that wrote animal farm was any kind of leftist

[Anonymous No.13448608]

>>13443645
Try News from Nowhere

[Anonymous No.13448797]

>>13446020
has done nothing for the past century

[Anonymous No.13448995]

>>13448567
Because it's a beat for beat allegory of for the Russian revolution wherein Trotsky is unambiguously the good guy, and the horrible reveal at the end is that the communists had just come up with a more brutally efficient version of what they came from.
Orwell is a self described socialist, and he says as much over and over in his other writings. Animal Farm was directly a criticism of Stalinist autocracy

[Anonymous No.13449008]

He’s not a communist though...Orwell wasn’t even a socialist, rather just being a social democrat. He’s pretty plebeian tier and the fact you think he’s some “big bad communist” show how stupid and shallow you really are

[Anonymous No.13449026]

>>13443645

I think you missed the point OP. 1984 is timeless because it's simply about the abuse/manipulation of language and how it can be used to exert power over people as >>13443657 said. It is very relevant to our wold today.

[Anonymous No.13449090]

>>13443645
Orwell didn't like it either.

[Anonymous No.13449533]

>>13449026
Not only language, but also what you're allowed to enjoy, your aesthetic preferences and even opinions on topics not related to politics. Part of the party's power also came from erasing the line between personal and political life.

[Anonymous No.13449536]

>>13445981

liberals do like big brother, though. do you think liberals are leftist?

[Anonymous No.13449557]

>>13443813
>Yet still a Marxist, and a proponent of extreme forms of leftism the likes of which we saw with the Spanish Republicans

What are you talking about? Orwell was fighting for the anarchists in 1936-1937 (the POUM). There was also the republic and the fascists. It was the republic which killed the anarchists.

[Anonymous No.13449579]

>>13443645
>t. commie

[Anonymous No.13449604]

>>13449008
Again someone who is talking shit. Orwell was an anarchist. At least in the 1930s. Read Homage to Catalonia.

It's really a pain when people give their opinion about shit they don't know about.
I don't know anything about quantum physics. I shut my mouth about quantum physics. It's not that difficult.

[Anonymous No.13449977]

>>13443645
>Am I the only one that thinks this book is infantile?>there's a big government and it's MEAN and OPPRESSIVEIt was uninsightful. It was literally fiction. It appealed to extremely plebian sentiments of comic-bookish totalitarianism. Honestly what I would expect from an Upper West Side New Yorker: railing against some inexplicable caricature of oppression, to justify your murderous communistic position

[Anonymous No.13450085]

>>13443699
Yeah, left as in the real one focussing on economic (read real) issues and not the meaningless social "issues" in our societies, the left of today is built on lies and decoys like social issues to hide the fact that they lost pitifully to and have been cooped by capitalism.

[Anonymous No.13450226]

>>13443645
>it was literally fiction
>mfw

[Anonymous No.13450698]

>>13443645
1984 is for faggots
Der Waldganger and Eumeswil is for patricians

[Anonymous No.13450893]

>>13446020

the 2nd amendment never did shit and every time you burgers even attempted to "rise up" you were put down by federal forces or daemonised people that were actually cool like john brown or the black panthers

shut the fuck up and eat your corn syrup soup, you fat plop

[Anonymous No.13450898]

>>13443645
It's a warning about the dangers of information control. And you're a homosexual.

[Anonymous No.13450925]

>>13450698
>Waldganger
Der Waldgang. Der Waldgänger is by Stifter.

[Anonymous No.13451390]

>>13446020
The 2nd amendment was written under the assumption people would be exposed to guns through a young age.

[Anonymous No.13451904]

>>13443645
The plot is boring. Just read that part about how their language is structured. It's absolutely based and redpilled. I honestly think modern languages should be dumbed down to screeching

[Anonymous No.13453252]

>>13450898
No it's about being an incel

[Anonymous No.13453318]

>>13449604
Read his essays, they span through most of his (creative) life and he unequivocally endorses socialism.

[Anonymous No.13453448]

>>13448025
>OP is correct, Orwell leaves nothing up to the reader's critical ability.
This does not make it bad literature.

>He has a part in the book where the main character of the book finds a book which describes in detail a solid 75% of the theory and points behind the book in a formal manner, as a "plot device".
This does not make it bad literature.

>OP is correct that it's infantile because everything is spoonfed to you like you're an incapable child.
This does not make it bad literature. Also you are the one acting like a child for projecting your personal perception of the tone of the author towards you as a fault in the author and not in yourself.

1984 isn't a bad book and George Orwell isn't a bad author, you are just a bad reader.

>This is such shit bait and I weep for this website.
Back to plebbit for you then.

[Anonymous No.13453713]

>>13453448
What makes something bad literature then?

[Anonymous No.13453833]

>>13448043
there were some leftist faggots in my school who argued that BNW was actually an utopia

[Anonymous No.13453852]

>>13443645
compare it to arendt's "origins of totalitarianism". it's literally the same. 1984 is one of the few fictional works which actually reflects totalitarian politics accurately

[Anonymous No.13453869]

>>13448025
Poor you. I feel bad that a lot of Orwell's thoughts on methods of political control and its relationship to language, relationships, and social engineering went waaayyy over your head. If you want to understand *why* Orwell wrote 1984 and what he was getting at, then read his essay "Politics and the English Language," to understand how the Soviet Union psychologically traumatized generations of people into becoming supplicant workers with no connections to anything meaningful and no allegiance to anything or anybody but their own survival. Orwell was a good, honest soul.

>>13447794
I also feel bad that you think that political commentary has to be a competition. It is probably one of the most pointless debates I see by the plebs of this board. Both Brave New World and 1984 are solid books that have much relevance in today's world. Humanity is better off for both of them being written. You can talk about which one is a greater literary achievement, sure, but their ideas are equally important.

[Anonymous No.13453879]

>>13450085
Correct, and he is still Leftist. What are you trying to convey?

>>13449557
He was a professed Democratic Socialist and the POUM was Left Anarchism. They were communistic.

>>13448567
Because he outright was you blithering retard

[Anonymous No.13453882]

>>13443645
a couple of points:

1) It was written in the 40s, before capitalism had commoditized and fetishized resistance to oppression as a product unto itself. You were born after that commoditization which is why it comes so naturally to you.

2) What you view as plebian and basic laid the groundwork for future works of speculative fiction you found better

3) Orwell specifically wrote the book to be relateable, digestible, and understandeable to British and American normies of the 40s.

4) yes it could be better; Orwell was a lot of things, so his life as a novelist was a secondary hobby

[Anonymous No.13453909]

>>13453882
>You were born after that commoditization which is why it comes so naturally to you.
Explain. Resistance to oppression comes naturally to me?
I'm arguably more authoritarian-leaning than the average, and my national ethos (American) has been Whig Historiography since the beginning, arguably.

[Anonymous No.13453937]

>>13453909
It's more like the idea comes naturally to us now, because it's already been done to death. With most of those commodified "resistance fiction" books taking inspiration from this one

[Anonymous No.13453950]

>>13453879
>Correct, and he is still Leftist. What are you trying to convey?
That the modern day "left" are bottom of the barrel scum that use the very tactics depicted in the book.

[Anonymous No.13453958]

>>13453950
A. I never said he was specifically a SocLib or whatever. I said he was leftist.

B. Don't imply that socialists aren't authoritarian plenty of the time. It's true that much of his literature attacks the Red corner from the Green corner of the political meme chart, still doesn't make it profound though.