/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.13442935]

how do i get into advaita vedanta?

[Anonymous No.13442945]

you are already into it

[Anonymous No.13443009]

>>13442935
Reposting from another thread, the best way to understand Advaita is to read through Shankara's works. It's strongly recommended to read at least one and preferably two intro books to Vedanta and/or Indian philosophy before doing this.

Good intro books:
The Advaita Tradition in Indian Philosophy by Sharma
Man and His Becoming According to the Vedanta by Guenon
Vedanta Heart of Hinduism

The Advaita Tradition is one of my favorites, the author covers Madhyamaka and Vijnanavada Buddhism along with Advaita Vedanta and Kashmir Shaivism. The author takes the unconventional position that the Upanishads, Buddha, Nagarjuna, early Vijnanavada and Shankara were more or less pointing at the same truth in different ways, he has good and bad things to say about tantra. He has some very lucid writing on Shankara's ideas which explain them with great clarity. The only downside is the Advaita section is maybe only a 1/3 of the book, but within that is a very good review of his ideas (and you could just read this without reading the whole book)

https://archive.org/details/TheAdvaitaTraditionInIndianPhilosophyChandradharSharma

Man and His Becoming is a good intro to and review of some of the key concepts that reappear again and again in Shankara's works, although some of it is a little obtuse/dense with lots of footnotes. It's recommended but not needed to read Guenon's 'Intro to Hindu Doctrines' first before this. Coomaraswamy called it the best book on the Vedanta in any European language. If you haven't read Guenon's first book it's best to wait to read this until after you've already read a book on Vedanta.

https://archive.org/stream/reneguenon/1925%20-%20Man%20and%20His%20Becoming%20according%20to%20the%20Ved%C3%A2nta#mode/2up

Vedanta Heart of Hinduism is another good primer that focuses mostly on Shankara, with additional chapters on Ramanuja et al, and later 18th-19th century figures on Ramana Maharshi, Vivekananda etc. Like 'The Advaita Tradition' this book is consists of the author's explanations of their ideas and not long passages of Shankara's etc works. It's translated from German, but still good.

https://archive.org/details/VedantaHeartOfHinduismHansTorwesten/page/n7

[Anonymous No.13443011]

>>13443009
>Madhyamaka
madhyamaka is based and only for big brain nibbas

[Anonymous No.13443020]

>>13443009
What's the point though? Many of the "advanced" Vedantists are practically homeless, some of them no better than people I see begging on the streets here in western world

I can see how Buddhism, Advaita etc. may be interesting but will only lead one to Hell.

Physical hell on this earth (poverty) and perhaps the spiritual hell of Dis/Inferno/Damnation of Christianity/Judaism/Islam

Or am I somehow mistaken?

[Anonymous No.13443029]

>>13443009
thank you.

[Anonymous No.13443036]

>>13443020
>spiritual hell of Dis/Inferno/Damnation of Christianity/Judaism/Islam
the crude literal understanding of that is for dumb plebs, there is no "eternal hellfire" that you will go to because you made god angry. first of all, eternity is a divine quality, so it makes no sense for an evil place to partake of that quality. second of all, moral behavior, which to a certain extent is an obsession with abrahamic religionists, takes second place to gnosis (jnana). you could be the biggest sinner on earth, if you achieve real gnosis you would be completely "purified". nothing is more beloved of god (metaphorically speaking) than knowledge, and nothing more hated by god than ignorance.

[Anonymous No.13443046]

>>13443009
pt 2.

Here are Shankara's works. It's best to begin with the 8-volume Upanishad commentaries. The more of his Upanishad commentaries that you read first the more you'll understand his commentaries on the two smriti texts the Brahma Sutras and the Bhagavad-Gita. The Chandogya and Brihadaranyaka commentaries are dense and best read after his shorter Upanishads ones. The Chandogya is also central to the ideas of the Brahma Sutras, it's not necessary but nevertheless a good idea to read Shankara's Chandogya bhasya before his Brahma Sutra Bhasya. The secondary works can be read alongside his commentaries, but are best understood/appreciated after you've already read some of his Upanishad commentaries

>Prasthanatrayi commentaries
http://estudantedavedanta.net/Eight-Upanisads-Vol-1.pdf
http://estudantedavedanta.net/Eight-Upanisads-vol2.pdf
https://archive.org/details/Brihadaranyaka.Upanishad.Shankara.Bhashya.by.Swami.Madhavananda
https://archive.org/details/Shankara.Bhashya-Chandogya.Upanishad-Ganganath.Jha.1942.English
https://archive.org/details/BrahmaSutraSankaraBhashyaEnglishTranslationVasudeoMahadeoApte1960
https://archive.org/details/Bhagavad-Gita.with.the.Commentary.of.Sri.Shankaracharya

>non-commentary works
http://estudantedavedanta.net/Sri_Shankaracharya-Upadeshasahasri%20-%20Swami%20Jagadananda%20%281949%29%20[Sanskrit-English].pdf
https://gita-society.com/pdf2011/vivekachudamani.pdf
https://archive.org/details/SankaraOnTheYogaSutrasTrevorLeggettMLBD2006
http://estudantedavedanta.net/Sri_Shankaracharya-AtmaBodha%20%28and%20Other%20Stotras%29%20-%20Swami%20Nikhilananda%20%281947%29%20[Sanskrit-English].pdf
http://estudantedavedanta.net/Aparoksha-Anubhuti-by-Sri-Shankaracharya.pdf
https://www.swamij.com/shankara-vakya-vritti.htm
http://shiningworld.com/site/files/pdfs/publications/books/1_Knowledge_of_Truth_Tattva_Bodh.pdf
http://www.vidyavrikshah.org/SIVANANDALAHARI.pdf
http://www.vidyavrikshah.org/SOUNDARYALAHARI.pdf
http://theheartofthesun.com/Nirvana.pdf
http://jagannathavallabha.com/pdf_engl/prasnottara%20english%20for%20amazon.pdf

[Anonymous No.13443051]

>>13443036
>the crude literal understanding of that is for dumb plebs, there is no "eternal hellfire" that you will go to because you made god angry. first of all, eternity is a divine quality, so it makes no sense for an evil place to partake of that quality.

Could you explain then how multiple Christian saints, Islamic saints among other mystics who have seen the Abrahamic hell all have given accounts how even Buddha and other prophets of the east are there to suffer for preaching false doctrines against Jehovah/Allah?

>second of all, moral behavior, which to a certain extent is an obsession with abrahamic religionists, takes second place to gnosis (jnana)

You sound like the Luciferists, or the Freemasons who worship the devil. They also put Knowledge or Lux In Tenebris and the "light of reason" as the highest point of their doctrine. Of course, they are satanists, like the Vedantists.

>you could be the biggest sinner on earth, if you achieve real gnosis you would be completely "purified".

Doesn't work that way.

Only through the resurrection of Jesus can one be saved from sins. The other scapegoat rite of the Jews was to send the scapegoat Azazel into wilderness so as to take the blame.

>nothing more hated by god than ignorance.

God loves the ignorant. Muhammad was able to recite the Quran despite being illiterate.

To the Satanists, Buddhists and Vedantists, jnana (knowledge) is everything. But they cannot differentiate between true wisdom (of Jesus) and false knowledge of Luciferian false light.

May God bless you.

[Anonymous No.13443065]

>>13443051
>Could you explain then how multiple Christian saints, Islamic saints among other mystics who have seen the Abrahamic hell all have given accounts how even Buddha and other prophets of the east are there to suffer for preaching false doctrines against Jehovah/Allah?
those are mystic visions. all such visions take place in an intemdiary realm referred to in islamic esoterism as "the imaginal" (alam al mithal). this realm represents metaphysical principles in a visual/symbolic garb. do not take these visions literally, they are symbolic of certain ideas.
>>13443051
>They also put Knowledge or Lux In Tenebris and the "light of reason" as the highest point of their doctrine. Of course, they are satanists, like the Vedantists.
there are many passages in the bible that confirm the supremacy of wisdom. christ himself is the wisdom of god
>Only through the resurrection of Jesus can one be saved from sins
symbolic understanding of this > crude literalism
>God loves the ignorant
don't conflate ignorance of vain human philosophy with ignorance of real spiritual jnana/gnosis. they are not the same.
>May God bless you.
th-thanks, y-you too

[Anonymous No.13443071]

>>13443011
>big brain nibbas
Not based at all then huh

[Anonymous No.13443076]

>>13443071
t. smol brain nibba

[Anonymous No.13443078]

>>13443046
Based anon strikes again

[Anonymous No.13443079]

>>13443011
The author of that book has a lot of good things to say about it, but he goes on to say that Advaita is an advancement on Madhyamaka, and a more refined exposition of the same truth (of the Upanishads and Buddha which he regards as the same). Schuon says the same thing in one of his books.

[Anonymous No.13443087]

>>13443079
Possibly, but even so, these represent different approaches, and some approaches will be better suited for different people.

[Anonymous No.13443094]

>>13443065
>those are mystic visions. all such visions take place in an intemdiary realm referred to in islamic esoterism as "the imaginal" (alam al mithal). this realm represents metaphysical principles in a visual/symbolic garb. do not take these visions literally, they are symbolic of certain ideas.

You sound like the Theosophists. God is triune being: body, soul, spirit.

These mystics, having left their body in spirit to visit Heaven and (Hell), have given accurate descriptions how they saw Gautama Buddha, Shankara and other false idols being tortured by the most gruesome demons, devils with pointed horns and the jaws of Dis gnawing on these Hindu saints day and night for they never did accept Jesus Christ the King of Jews

>there are many passages in the bible that confirm the supremacy of wisdom. christ himself is the wisdom of god

Again, you cannot differentiate the false gnosis and vain doctrines of Vedanta with the supreme simplicity of Mount Sermon.

Jesus said: Thou Shalt Not Kill.

The Hindu Krishna says "Arjuna, go kill everybody, don't think, just kill"

This is the difference between Lord Jesus Christ the Savior of Human Race and the satanic devils and damnation preaching murderers of the Hindoo gods and their sick cults of murder, madness and Death worship.

>symbolic understanding of this > crude literalism

It is not symbolic, the blood of Jesus is physical substance that was collected in the Grail and Pope is his representative on this earth until the Final Judgement.

[Anonymous No.13443104]

>>13443087
true

[Anonymous No.13443108]

>>13443094
Christ also told the Jews to massacre the Canaanite when he led them into the holy land. Don't be a simpleton

[Anonymous No.13443114]

>>13443094
>It is not symbolic, the blood of Jesus is physical substance that was collected in the Grail and Pope is his representative on this earth until the Final Judgement.
It's symbolic and physical. Our whole world is composed of symbols. The sun, the actual physical sun itself, is a symbol of God, for example.

[Anonymous No.13443169]

>>13443051
>>13443094
>But they cannot differentiate between true wisdom (of Jesus) and false knowledge of Luciferian false light.
>Jesus Christ the King of Jews

This is hilarious.

[Anonymous No.13443175]

You abandon Orientalism for Platonism.

[Anonymous No.13443184]

>>13443175
they're essentially the same, but yeah, if you are a westerner you are better off studying platonic/hermetic philosophy rather than larping as a pajeet. studying eastern doctrines can be helpful as a supplement or as a comparative, but dont take it too far and "go native"

[Anonymous No.13443216]

>>13443175
>muh Orientalism
Why do certain people who are into Neoplatonism get upset when people mention Vedanta, as though they felt that Neoplatonism was threatened by it? Why can't people just appreciate both? It's not some sports contest.

[Anonymous No.13443264]

>>13443216
That's exactly what it is for them anon, especially nowadays when so many from /pol/ have added religious tradition to their personal identities. If you're living in the West, anything you take on is a foreign tradition - either from Semitic culture, from Indian culture, Chinese culture, or elsewhere. It's ultimately best to just view them as philosophies in themselves, systems of ideas without any cultural elements to themselves, but people here can't get past the whole "clash of civilizations" mindsets required for that.

[Anonymous No.13443528]

>Halfway thru the thread and a spastic christian started spouting about hell and jesus
This place us shit

[Anonymous No.13443560]

>>13442935
Learn sanskrit and believe all the shastra. That's more or less it.
There are no contradictions in the shastra. Don't believe what the atheists tell you. The classical example is the conchshell and cowdung. According to shastra, the bones(this is also why eating meat is banned) and excrement of the animals are dirty and one must clean himself after touching them. Shastra also says the conchshell and cowdung cleanse upon touching them. There is no contradiction

[Anonymous No.13444039]

>>13443051
are you really using other peoples' visions as proof of something? interesting take

[Anonymous No.13444287]

>>13443094
Jesus also killed everyone at Sodom and Gomorrah and later expressed no regret for such a course of action when reminding his followers of the event...

Krishna was not encouraging violence, but stoicism in the face of one's duty. If Arjuna backed down, he'd lose everything, and be the cause of a greater fault. It was about preventing a greater evil.

[Anonymous No.13444388]

>>13443184
>but dont take it too far and "go native"
what does that mean

[Anonymous No.13444950]

bump

[Anonymous No.13446310]

>>13444388
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/go_native

[Anonymous No.13446392]

>>13443216
>>13443264
its because westerners either disregard eastern philosophy altogether or worship it

[Anonymous No.13446409]

>>13446392
the oracle of delphi warned us about this, why didn't we listen

[Anonymous No.13446546]

>>13446392
>>13443184
I like Vedanta better than Neoplatonism, call the police I don't give a fuck

Plotinus couldn't hold a candle to a one of Shankara's farts. The fact that he would try to construct some metaphysical system on the talks of some random guy who never even clearly stated during his life whether he agreed with it - LMAO what a joke, meanwhile my nigga Shankara revealed the supreme truth of the Aryan scriptures. Shankara is also way more lucid and logical than Plotinus, he completely btfos like 5 or 6 different schools of Hindu philosophy along with Jains and Buddhists all at the same time without breaking a sweat while all Plotinus does is whine and bitch and some gnostics etc. To compare the value of them let's just see what happened to them, Neoplatonism got absorbed into the opposing doctrine of Christianity and finally was cucked out of existence by Christian authorities while Shankara is revered accross India and most Indian Philosophy after him is just a modification of his ideas.

[Anonymous No.13446683]

>>13446392
case and point: >>13446546

[Anonymous No.13446714]

>>13446683
>falling for bait

[Anonymous No.13446741]

>>13446714
cope

[Anonymous No.13446887]

>>13442945
sweet, so I can keep jacking off and playing games all day with no responsibilities

[Anonymous No.13447058]

>>13446741
I wrote that to troll the "d-don't take Vedanta seriously, n-n-neoplatonisms still cool guys..." people and you fell right for it my friend. In reality, contrary to what this poster said >>13446392, most people into Vedanta including myself have a deep appreciation for Neoplatonism, it's natural to develop sympathy for similar schools of thought once you study one long enough. You have to stop acting like a spurned female when you see people taking an interest in eastern thought though, it's not helping Neoplatonism in the slightest when you harange people also studying and taking seriously similar schools in the east.

[Anonymous No.13447138]

who do these faggot hindus and buddhists have 500 sacred texts? for fuck's sake, I don't even know what the fuck to read

[Anonymous No.13447146]

>>13447138
Upanishads (canon)
brahma sutras
yoga sutras
bhagavad gita

[Anonymous No.13447256]

>>13447058

[Anonymous No.13447293]

>>13447256
There is no real opposition or competition between Neoplatonism and Vedanta, the only conflict is in the minds of idiots who egoistically attach themselves to one. That being said, Vedanta has a stronger track record than Neoplatonism because it was never wiped out and its centers of learning never shut down and so the meme is backwards.

[Anonymous No.13447476]

>>13443009
>>13443046
Thank you very much.

Do you, or someone else, have a reading order for the other traditions such as Sufism, Buddhism, Christianity?

[Anonymous No.13447492]

advaita vedanta lead me to Christ, so there is some value to it.
Eventually I pierced through the delusion that "all is self" and that consciousness was the "God of the World" implying that atman = brahman, and realized I was in fact contimgent and always relative to my Creator, my soul is individual and not omnipresent, and the creator is not an abstract "awareness" but was a personal being that wished to be known and wished his law to be known and followed, not "transcended" and gone beyond.

[Anonymous No.13447509]

>>13442935
try meditating and go into patanjali yoga sutras, rather than reading advaita vedanta until you reach 1st samadhi experience, then read advatita vedanta, and then you will realize that you dont even need to read that text cos you already now.

[Anonymous No.13447653]

>>13447492
How did Advaita lead you to something that's almost the opposite of it?

[Anonymous No.13447693]

>>13447138
as for Buddhism
http://obo.genaud.net/backmatter/indexes/sutta/sutta_toc.htm
get crackin on the nikayas

[Anonymous No.13447713]

>>13447653
#1 pointed out that there's more to life than the material and sensible, and something beyond death--and that freedom is not engaging in the passions but not being enslaved by them and charmed by them (similar to avoiding sins)
#2 pointed out that something transcended, omniscient, ineffable and conscious is at the center of all reality, it is more "real" than anything else
#3 helped me not cling to distracting thoughts and habitual patterns
#4 bhakti yoga is very close to Christian prayer/meditation (except it's misdirected)
#5 personal experience while practicing meditation that made me sure that God is a personal being, in charge of everything and wants to be known. First thing I thought of was Jesus Christ, but wasn't convinced until I did more research and prayer and seeking.

#4 and #5 were the big catalysts.

[Anonymous No.13447745]

>>13447476
>Buddhism
The best translations in basically every case are those by the Pali Text Society.
Here's a PDF for What The Buddha Taught, an excellent introductory text:
https://web.ics.purdue.edu/~buddhism/docs/Bhante_Walpola_Rahula-What_the_Buddha_Taught.pdf
Here is the best place I'm aware of for reading suttas online for free. The website contains multiple translations of almost every sutta (includes those by Bhikkhu Bodhi, Thanissaro Bhikkhu, Bhikkhu Sujato, I.B Horner, and most importantly: those by the Pali Text Society, abbreviated as PTS):
http://obo.genaud.net/backmatter/indexes/sutta/sutta_toc.htm
Another sutta site, only contains Thanissaro Bhikkhu's translations, but it has a convenient search function for looking for specific suttas/topics:
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/
Another sutta site:
https://suttacentral.net/
Here's a good site for translating Pali to English, and just for finding the meaning of individual words:
http://www.buddha-vacana.org/
I also recommend A History of Buddhist Philosophy: Continuities and Discontinuities by David Kalupahana - for a great overview of the way that different philosophies and perspectives have historically developed in Buddhism.
And lastly, Buddhist India by TW Rhys Davids is probably the best book for someone looking to learn about Buddhist history in India, with the political, cultural and religious environment
That should be a good basis for studying the Pali Canon. If you want to move on from there, the book by David Kalupahana will have cite great reference points from which to explore Theravada, Mahayana, Vajrayana and Zen.
Generally, some good pointers are the Heart Sutra, Diamond Sutra, Platform Sutra, all the rest of the Prajñāpāramitā sūtras. Also be sure to read Nagarjuna's Mulamadhyamakakarika, Seventy Verses on Emptiness, Precious Garland, Letter to a Friend (perhaps all before the Mahayana sutras, at least before the Prajñāpāramitā sūtras).
Vajrayana is largely esoteric and initiatic so I have nothing really to recommend from that sect other than a one-on-one relationship with a guru. However, the Pali and Mahayana texts serve as the foundation for Vajrayana and so they are necessary reading beforehand anyway, and they should keep you occupied for awhile.

[Anonymous No.13447751]

>>13447492
1) You are not contingent, your consciousness is eternal, fundamental, and the necessary ground of existence itself
2) Your individual consciousness is local, but consciousness itself is omnipresent, and yours is a local droplet of an all-pervading sea
3) God is not a Jewish mafia-boss who mqkes deals with men, speaks to tribesmen through the clouds ("This is my son..."), gives orders to genocide other peoples, sacrifices his child in order to forgive a species for a crime they never existed for in the first place, let alone committed, has a staff of angels as his hitmen, and whatever other fables the Jewish mythology involves. I know that a personal deity is comforting for many, and if it helps them spiritually then good for them and they should follow it. But Advaita or Buddhism expect greater resilience from their adherents and in doing so, allow one to reach states of non-cultural, universal self-realization well beyond what mythologies will bring to you.

[Anonymous No.13447859]

>>13443051
Jesus didn't even know about reincarnation/rebirth, placing a major blemish on his reputation as a spiritual teacher. He said that everyone sleeps in unconsciousness after death until being raised up in the Day of Judgement. Very unimpressive, no "true wisdom" there at all, only false belief that will have you enslaved to the Christian God your whole lifetime, die, then reincarnate into samsara again and now hopefully not fall into the Abrahamic trap again so that you can finally leave the physical universe for good.

[Anonymous No.13447888]

>>13447745
Why do you never recommend Yogachara/Vijnanavada Buddhism? The ideas of early Yogachara thinkers like Vasubanshu and Asanga are just as important as Nagarjuna to understanding later Mahayana like Chan but you never so much as mention them

[Anonymous No.13448482]

>>13447713
why do you think bhakti yoga is misdirected?

[Anonymous No.13448518]

>>13448482
He's saying it's not directed at Christ, which would be the only proper object of worship in his mind. Every other conception of the deity = bad

[Anonymous No.13448806]

>>13447751
>sacrifices his child

Not Scriptural, by the way.

[Anonymous No.13448851]

>>13447859
>didn't even know about reincarnation/rebirth
>I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again.

Put the bong down.

[Anonymous No.13448893]

>>13447751
Would you say that you have realised that truth

[Anonymous No.13448953]

>>13447293
Except Neoplatonism isn't 'existentially monistic' and much closer to Dvaita Vedanta.
Neoplatonism is hierachical: 'the One/the Good', the 'One-Many/Being/Intellect itself', and the 'One-and-Many or Pysche/Soul itself'.

[Anonymous No.13448978]

>>13448953
It is monistic: “the One, the *All*”

[Anonymous No.13449096]

>>13448806
Paul says it directly, plus what is the point of Jesus's person if not as a sacrifice for humanity's sin?

>>13448893
Definitely not.

[Anonymous No.13449105]

>>13449096
>what is the point of Jesus's person if not as a sacrifice for humanity's sin
if you understand that symbolically its quite profound, but if you take that literally it seems quite vulgar and stupid to me

[Anonymous No.13449117]

>>13448978
the one is not 'the All', 'Being' (first mover) is the All
The One is ineffably One, it's the white of all color; it's better to see it as the first cause and final cause of all things, the base of all existence.
Of course it depends on if you ask Proclus, Damascius, or Plotinus.
All would agree that it's ontologically monistic, essentially hierachical, the truth of the One doesn't nullify all else, all else is only secondarily real, "less" real, not unreal or illusory (except the illusions of our world of flux and becoming but never being), the illusion isn't one of plurality but the illusion that there isn't a hierarchy of everything.

[Anonymous No.13449128]

>>13449096

By Scriptural I mean Old Testament and the Gospels, Paul says...many things, including original sin, which is not Scriptural either.

[Anonymous No.13449130]

>>13449105
What would you like to ask, if i told you i have realised the eternal self.

[Anonymous No.13449166]

>>13448953
That's wrong

Plotinus, the celebrated mystic, comes nearest in his views to the Vedanta philosophy, and is practically in full agreement with the Eastern sages, both in his theory and his methodology. His system is called Neoplatonism, as it consummates the philosophy of Plato in a highly developed mysticism. To Plotinus, God or the Absolute is the All. The diversities of the world are grounded in the Absolute, though the Absolute is above all contradictions and differences. It is the first causeless Cause, and the world emanates from It as an overflow of its Perfection. We cannot define God, for definition is limitation to certain attributes. All logical, ethical and aesthetic principles, truth, goodness and beauty, are incapable of representing Him in His true greatness. Nothing can be said of the essential Reality of God, and what we can give at the most is a negative description of His Being. He is beyond being and non-being, beyond all concepts, notions and perceptions. He is above thinking, feeling and willing, above subject and object, above all conceivable principles and categories. He cannot even be called a Self-conscious Being, for this implies duality. He is the Thinker and the Thought, and also what is Thought. He is everything. He alone is.

This is nothing short of the Advaita Vedanta of Shankara. Only the view that the world is an overflow of the Perfection of God is peculiar to Plotinus. For, to the Vedanta, there is no such overflow; there is, to it, only the Absolute, and the world is its appearance; not an emanation from or an overflow of its being. This is the position, in spite of the acceptance of a relativistic creation of the Universe from the Absolute, as adumbrated in the Upanishads. For Plotinus the world is neither the creation of God nor an evolute from Him, but just an emanation. Plotinus, no doubt, takes care to see that this emanation does not in any way affect the Perfection of God. Plotinus is not advocating the parinamavada or the transformation theory of some of the Indian schools. God does not become the world by modification or transformation of Himself. He is ever what He is and the emanation is something like that of light from the sun. God never gets lost or exhausted in the world. Plotinus is thus free from the charge of propounding a pantheism. God is both transcendent and immanent. The world originates, subsists and finally merges in God. The Thought of God and the Object of this Thought are one and the same, and the world is God's Thought. God's Thought is merely the activity of His own being; it is the immediate, instantaneous, all-comprehending Essence of pure Consciousness, direct and intuitive, knowing everything at one stroke, and transcending the dualistic categories of relative reason, which functions through a succession of ideas.

[Anonymous No.13449174]

>>13449166
Plotinus introduces into his system the Ideas of Plato, which are the archetypes of all things in the universe, and which are thoughts in the Mind of God. Only Plotinus would rise above Plato in not making God's Thought dependent on the ideas. For God is absolutely independent. Rather Plotinus makes the Platonic Ideas what the ideative processes are in the Ishvara of the Vedanta. The whole world is for Plotinus what the Vedanta means by ishvara-srishti, or cosmic manifestation, as distinguished from jiva-srishti or individual imagination.

God's Universal Thought, which we may compare to the Creative Will of Ishvara, manifests the World-Soul in the second stage of emanation. This World-Soul has some of the characteristics of Hiranyagarbha, and while it is rooted in the pure Divine Thought, and possesses its characteristics, it has a tendency towards bringing order in the sense-world. When it acts in the sense-world, it becomes the Soul of the physical world. The World-Soul has an eternal aspect as rooted in pure Thought, and a relative aspect as animating the phenomena of Nature and subject to temporal division. The World-Soul produces matter and acts on it as its animating principle.

The theory is strikingly similar to the Vedanta, excepting, of course, the several technical concepts which are peculiar only to Greek thought. But matter for Plotinus is the principle of evil. In the Vedanta, however, matter is an appearance of God Himself, and it becomes evil only when it excites and feeds the passions of the individual. Else it is a phase of the body of Ishvara, worthy of adoration. Evil is not a cosmic principle for the Vedanta; evil exists only for the individuals, and it is to be attributed to their ignorance of the true nature of things.

[Anonymous No.13449180]

>>13449117
>>13448978

[Anonymous No.13449182]

>>13449174
Plotinus also refers to the Vedanta conception of jiva-srishti, when he says that the souls contained in the World-Soul, as its ideas, act on matter and give it a sensuous character. Plotinus, however, is not very clear in his assigning to these souls the function of creating matter and of acting on matter. When he says that they are beyond space and produce matter we have to take them as ideas in the World-Soul, which manifest the physical universe and which are all held together in the unified intelligence of the World-Soul. When they are said to give matter a sensuous image, they may be considered to have undergone division as individuals which act on the objects of the world in sense-perception. For, creating matter and making it a sense-object cannot be the function of the soul in one and the same condition of its consciousness; the one is trans-empirical, and the other empirical. The former may create division through space, time and objectivity, but does not necessarily render them sensuous. Plotinus regards the appearances of the World-Soul, matter and its division into sense-objects as simultaneous processes, distinguishable only in imagination or thought. Here, again, he concurs with the cosmology of the Vedanta.

The system of Plotinus rises to lofty heights and takes creation beyond time, with no beginning and not originating in any fiat of the Divine Will. Plotinus has in him, however, aspects of the Samkhya when he says that the world is eternal in spite of its outward changes. He has also elements of the bhedabheda doctrine of difference-in-non-difference, and he is not always a consistent non-dualist. These have, however, to be regarded as mere concessions to occasional descents in the philosopher's thought, or as indications of an attempt to present to the world different aspects of the one Reality.

[Anonymous No.13449189]

>>13449182
The essential nature of the soul, Plotinus holds, is freedom and eternal existence. It is a part of the World-Soul, and, as in the Vedanta the bondage of the soul is simultaneous with the creation of the diversity of the world by Ishvara and is actually occasioned by the Jiva itself by its passions, so in Plotinus the individual soul gets bound by its sensuality, consequent upon the manifestation of matter by the World-Soul. The blessedness of the soul is in its turning towards God, in its contemplation of the Real, by freeing itself from sensuality. The Goal of life is the realisation of God or the Absolute-Intelligence. This is possible through a tremendous discipline of the soul, by abandoning attachments to the body and bodily connections, and by contemplating on the Eternal. The soul, in the beatific vision obtained in ecstasy, attains communion with the Real. Ecstasy is beyond contemplation and is akin to the samadhi of the Yoga and the Vedanta. Plotinus is one of the very few mystics with whom the Vedanta would have the greatest sympathy; in both we find the transfiguring element of unconditioned devotion to the Absolute. Plotinus was a great sage and is said to have been blessed with the beatific vision of the Absolute several times in his life. It is the opinion of some scholars that the strikingly Oriental element in Plotinus is due to his having gained the wisdom of India while he was accompanying the Emperor Gordian in his campaign in the East.

[Anonymous No.13449196]

>>13449189
The flashes of insight in Plotinus are superb: "There everything is transparent, nothing dark, nothing resistant; every being is lucid to every other, in breadth and depth; light runs through light. And each of them contains all within itself, and at the same time sees all in every other, so that everywhere there is all, all is all, and each all, and infinite the glory. Each of them is great; the small is great: the sun, there, is all the stars, and every star again is all the stars and sun. While some one manner of being is dominant in each, all are mirrored in every other." "In this Intelligible World, every thing is transparent. No shadow limits vision. All the essences see each other and interpenetrate each other in the most intimate depth of their nature. Light everywhere meets light. Every being contains within itself the entire Intelligible World, and also beholds it entire in every particular being... There abides pure movement; for He who produces movement, not being foreign to it, does not disturb it in its production. Rest is perfect, because it is not mingled with any principle of disturbance. The Beautiful is completely beautiful there, because it does not dwell in that which is not beautiful." "To have seen that vision is reason no longer. It is more than reason, before reason, and after reason, as also is the vision which is seen. And perhaps we should not here speak of sight; for that which is seen if we must needs speak of seer and seen as two and not one is not discerned by the seer, nor perceived by him as a second thing. Therefore this vision is hard to tell of; for how can a man describe as other than himself that which, when he discerned it, seemed not other, but one with himself indeed?" (Enneads, V. 8; VI. 9, 10).

Who can afford to miss noticing the similarity, nay, identity of these passages with the magnificent proclamations of Sage Yajnavalkya as recorded in the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad (Ch. III, IV)?

https://www.swami-krishnananda.org/com/com_plot.html

[Anonymous No.13449197]

>>13449128
There is no essential need for Jesus then. He's just another teacher, and not some kind of exclusive path to salvation which every major Christian denomination claims him to be. The whole point of Christianity is that humanity is sinful since The Fall, and cannot save itself without the sacrifice God later made to rectify this condition. I'm aware that OS wasn't in Jesus's teachings or in the non-Pauline documents, but it's basically become the very foundation of Christianity since, and any Christian who doesn't believe it has to form their own doctrine since they can't subscribe to the mainstream one.

>>13449105
Do explain the symbolism to me. If it's strictly symbolic, it can't have any bearing on reality itself, being merely intellectually edifying and nothing else. Just like The Lord of the Rings has great symbolism to itself, which a person could become wiser for understanding - but not having any relation to them in any literal sense.

[Anonymous No.13449221]

>>13449197

An appalling reply.

[Anonymous No.13449261]

>>13449221
If so, you should be able to present me a terrific argument that swiftly erodes everything I just stated. If not, I'll assume you have none.

[Anonymous No.13449297]

>>13449261

Deliberate Paulism is one thing, but conceding to Paul when he contradicts Jesus simply because other people have done so is appalling. My God, what is the need for you then?

[Anonymous No.13449334]

>>13449166
>>13449174
>>13449182
>>13449189
>>13449196
Should we ask Plotinus himself?

[Anonymous No.13449335]

>>13449196
Thanks for the link. It was an interesting read. But I don't think you had to copypaste it all instead of just linking it.

[Anonymous No.13449402]

>>13449334
For the Father perfected all things and handed them over to the Second Intellect, which you—the entire human race—call the First Intellect

[Anonymous No.13449652]

Damn, I gotta lot reading to do.Thanks /lit/.

[Anonymous No.13449685]

>>13449402
>>13449334
I'm not sure how you think those passages refutes the idea that Neoplatonism aligns with Advaita in many areas. Advaita is full of hierarchies too, the passage you just posted could easily correspond to the heirarchy between Nirguna Brahman and Saguna Brahman or Hiranyagarbha. Advaita separates Atma/Brahman and the intellect as well.

[Anonymous No.13449740]

>>13449685
thinking that hierarchy negates monism (or non dualism if you prefer) is truly a brainlet take

[Anonymous No.13449875]

>>13449334
i must continue attempting to read Enneads. is it easier if you have an attention span, or is it difficult no matter what? I have MacKenna's translation.

[Anonymous No.13450696]

>>13443094
He replied, ‘I tell you that everyone who has will be given more; but the one who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 2And these enemies of mine who were unwilling for me to rule over them, bring them here and slay them in front of me.’” 28After Jesus had said this, He went on ahead, going up to Jerusalem

[Anonymous No.13450733]

>>13443094
Are people ignoring that this (admittedly really good) troll seems to be simultaneously a dogmatic Catholic as well as a Muslim?

[Anonymous No.13450757]

>>13443094
The Jews had “mystical visions” of Jesus Christ being burned in a vat of feces for leading the children of Israel astray.
I thought Christianity told us visions are the work of Satan.

[Anonymous No.13450800]

>>13443094
>Eternal punishment of the worst kind for not accepting a person that would come 1000 years after their death
What a religion. I love how you literally had to create a seperate lair in hell just so you could rationalize Plato

[Anonymous No.13451656]

>>13449875
McKenna has some weird terminology like "intellectual principle".
Try reading Kenneth Sylvan Guthrie's, it's free, but maybe not as accurate.

[Anonymous No.13451698]

https://realization.org/p/ashtavakra-gita/richards.ashtavakra-gita/richards.ashtavakra-gita.html

[Anonymous No.13452647]

>>13443094
lol

[Anonymous No.13452990]

Monism is fake and gay.
Dualism is illusory.
TRIADS, now that is juicy.

[Anonymous No.13453004]

>>13452990

[Anonymous No.13453012]

>>13453004
begome greek
i am greek

[Anonymous No.13453079]

>>13443560
How can I take advaita vedanta seriously now?

[Anonymous No.13453116]

>>13443560
Cringe.

[Anonymous No.13453272]

>>13453079
what he posted has nothing whatsoever to do with it

[Anonymous No.13453612]

>>13443046
Thank you.