[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 33 KB, 800x444, holden caulfield.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13434553 No.13434553 [Reply] [Original]

Did he rape Phoebe?

>> No.13434560

>>13434553
Yes and it's based

>> No.13434564

>>13434553
he dicked her down and fucked her up

>> No.13434617

yes
this is a settled question in the study of literature

>> No.13434633

>>13434553
>>13434560
>>13434564
>>13434617
It's been years since I read Catcher in the Rye and I don't remember anything like this. Someone refresh my memory.

>> No.13434634

>>13434560
>>13434564
>>13434617
All though it does seem like it's just a meme, there's plenty of evidence for it. He comments about how pretty she looks, he pinches her ass, he comments about her mouth being open, he wonders about "how far she can spread," she punches his leg multiple times, tells him to stop, and repeatedly tells him that "Daddy is gonna kill you." There is no other way to read the passage. Plus, Salinger was an irl pedo.

>> No.13434637

>>13434634
oh

>> No.13434739

Nah, shit theory

>> No.13434862

>>13434637
Read the book, ignore the anon you replied to. The whole punching and "Daddy's gonna kill you" is down to the fact that the kid had basically got kicked out of school.

>> No.13434953

>>13434633
lol

>> No.13434968

>>13434553
Yes (and that’s a good thing).

>> No.13434978

>>13434553
A Jew wrote it, so yeah probably.

>> No.13435010

>>13434553
>Be me, 22 y/o 4chan addict
>some faggot on /lit/ is always trying to force the "Holden rapes his sister Phoebe meme"
>get my life together, quit 4chan, go back to school, get a degree, get a real job, get a gf, propose, get rejected
>get back on 4chan for first time in LITERALLY over 5 years
>some faggot on /lit/ is still trying to force the "Holden rapes his sister Phoebe meme"
>feels good man

>> No.13435020

>>13435010
Rapes phoebe twice

>> No.13435028

>>13435010
You can come home again, brother.

>> No.13435073

>>13434634
>>13434862
No anon is unironically right. The language used around Phoebe is noticeably erotic to the point where several mainstream scholars have commented on pedophilic undertones in Salinger's work and life, often specifically citing the bedroom scene. I don't have my university login at the moment so I'm rather limited, but here are a few examples.

Harold Bloom, 'J. D. Salinger' (1987):
>Throughout the Phoebe section, double entendres and sexually suggestive images and gestures multiply... Holden and Phoebe seem to be acting out a mock romance, much the way Seymour Glass does with the little girl in "A Perfect Day for a Bananfish". The episode is at once movingly tender and ominous... the scene that follows... is reminiscent of nothing so much as that mainstay of French farce, the lover hiding in the closet or under the bed as the girl ironically "explains" to husband or parent. More important are the implications of Phoebe's "heat." Though she cannot really induce it, her innocence and compliance in the whole sexual charade does place Holden "in terrific danger"... Their parting is filled with suggestions of a sort one might expect after a casual, normal sexual encounter.

Shane Salerno, 'Salinger' (2013):
>Flirtation with the girl-child’s body is the beginning of spiritual awakening... The author’s sensuality is a private trauma. This is how paranoids, mystics, and pedophiles think

M. duMais Svogun, 'English Studies Vol. 90 No. 6' (2009):
>Readers have suggested, for example, that Phoebe may be seen as everything from a mother figure, to an emblem of innocence, to a source of perverse temptation for Holden himself

>> No.13435146

>>13435073
More:

>Holden also presents a sexualized image of Phoebe, his younger sister, which further undermines his vision of innocence. For instance, Holden emphasizes her undeveloped body, which immediately invites imagination of her developed one, like Humbert Humbert’s emphasis on Lolita’s “juvenile breasts.”

>James Bryan, in “The Psychological Structure of The Catcher in the Rye,” calls Phoebe Holden’s “emblem of unattainable childhood beauty,” and describes their interaction in the later chapters of the book as a “mock romance”... He makes several convincing arguments that highlight the sexual overtones of their interaction in the bedroom.

>At times, he displays an ability and tendency to violate Phoebe’s innocence, like when he, “just for the hell of it,” “[gives] her a pinch on the behind”... His visualization of Phoebe as undeveloped and in a vulnerable physical position is coupled with his sexual act

>> No.13435724

>>13435073
expect me to trust some academic faggots with an agenda?

>> No.13436726

>>13435724
>trust
weird word choice
it'a a hermeneutic science, you read the argument and decide how much sense you think it makes

>> No.13436770
File: 41 KB, 600x764, 1527256290133.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13436770

>holden
we used to have a car manufacturer with that name

used to

>> No.13436901

>>13436726
It make no sense. Now suck my dick

>> No.13436929

>>13436726
Those interpretations dont suggest they had sex in that scene. It might be suggestive, to the reader, but not at all to Holden, who himself was probably abused.

>> No.13436941

>>13435073
These guys are fucked in the head and I'm not generally one those pedophile crusader guys, but seriously have they never had an innocent conversation with a sibling before? Jesus

>> No.13436944

>>13436770
Weirdly in my edition his name is Ford Caulfield

>> No.13437941

>>13436941
>this level of damage control
Reminder that, as anon said, Salinger was a pedo in real life and kept falling in love with 14-16 year old girls

>> No.13438132

>>13435010
you'll always come back