/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.13408692]

I'm holding a local reading group on Notes from the Underground.

Can anybody recommend me some supplementary reading to prepare me for it?

[Anonymous No.13408699]

This is your book for a reading group? Bro half the book is a pleb filter, I doubt any casuals will enjoy it

[Anonymous No.13408735]

>>13408699
Yeah I made a mistaken in picking this. Read it a few years ago and forget how difficult the first half is.

[Anonymous No.13408752]

>>13408699
>>13408735
stfu retards this is probably the first book i read by my own choosing and i loved it

[Anonymous No.13408774]

>>13408752
You must be very intelligent

[Anonymous No.13408781]

>>13408735
>forget how difficult the first half is.
How is it difficult? It's like reading a well written /r9k/ post

[Anonymous No.13408786]

>>13408692
I think the novella only mentions a few other political books in the first section.

[Anonymous No.13408840]

>>13408781
My friends are non-readers. And the first half is quite difficult if you're only used to John Grisham and Game of Thrones. But I do agree that, even for a novice, it's readable and possible to 'get'.

[Anonymous No.13408869]

Wew. 0 recommendations so far. Well done, literature board.

[Anonymous No.13408875]

I cannot remember outright who Dosto particularly topically references in Underground, inevitably Balzac, Voltaire, Hugo, Pushkin and Gogol in some form, being his chief influences.. but certainly the narrator is a conflicted "1840s" liberal, who most likely read Belinsky and claims to honour dignity and individual freedom, which is why he suffers so much under his rank and those who are supposedly superior, but at the same time is a hypocritical spiteful pedant who plays the same games within the civic ranks.
He is a contradiction that despises his "friends", servant and "lover" for not ever respecting him but at the same time craves their respect, again emphasising that this internal conflict is part of the inertia that keeps the youth with new liberal ideas from realising the idealism and becoming spiteful old men, with even less than the rest.

[Anonymous No.13408879]

>>13408869
Why would you need supplementary reading for an intro-book?

[Anonymous No.13408880]

>>13408781
What an absolute brainlet. I bet you think Houellebecq novels are incel manifestos too.

[Anonymous No.13408884]

>>13408875

And to add, I would recommend 'A nasty business' by Dosto as well, as a more specific realisation of that theme of being selfishly off-kilter with your superiors and inferiors those you wish to be a matyr for.

[Anonymous No.13408886]

https://www.reddit.com/r/thelastpsychiatrist/comments/5wq4u3/missing_post/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

[Anonymous No.13408887]

>>13408879
Intro book? Intro to what? It's a novel, not a textbook. You can develop personal heuristics for understanding it, but OP clearly asked for recommendations that would frame his understanding in clearer terms.

[Anonymous No.13408889]

>>13408887
It's an intro book to Dostoevsky, they have a lot of similar themes and styles to his later works. It's like asking for supplementary reading to The Hobbit. It's a crude and quite (in my opinion) bad book that contains the seed for future masterpieces

[Anonymous No.13408899]

>>13408889
>It's an intro book to Dostoevsky
Revealing. Well done for invincibly ignorant platitudes. You're a drooling amoeba man and arguing with an obdurate bore like you would be a waste of both of our time. If you want to be useful share your own understanding of the book, or just some thoughts that might give OP some perspective.

[Anonymous No.13408943]

>>13408899

Not that guy, I've already shared a partil view of the book..
>>13408875
But in a sense, that guy is right. The works from Underground through to the Brothers K, can be interpreted as a sequence, a development of existential thought.
Underground explores inertia, faithless inaction.
C&P explores regret, developing faith and redemption
The Idiot is faith and meditation on death, forgiveness in spite of betrayal and insanity.
Up until Demons, his works were largely representative of an individuals moral climb, but here he plunges society into the same ambiguous moral inertia and chaos that the Underground man experiences personally, creating a limbo that upon rejecting God, can only be escaped through suicide (Kirrilov and Stavrogin)
And then Brothers K is dense tapestry depicting the atheist degenaration leading to a myriad of lives similar to characters in his previous works, and the need to accept Christianity not as just a church but as ta guiding light that must replace the atheistist notion of the socialist utopian state.
Reduced, for sure, but there are definitely recurrent themes that build upon one another, and to compare Underground with his later work, does eessentially leave it lacking, making it a better introduction piece. (ALthough personally I think you have to start with House of the Dead).

[Anonymous No.13408956]

>>13408880
What are you talking about? The underground man is a neet living in a basement ranting about how shit society is. How more /r9k/ can you get?

[Anonymous No.13408961]

What makes you think this book requires supplements? What makes you think you can't just notice the themes reading through it? what isn't straightforward about it?

Even C&P and Bk, they're just long, not really complicated?

If you're worried about missing something in such works as these, I'd be curious why you want to read them in the first place. If your friends are not big readers, you'll probably spend most of your time just making sure people understand it superficially rather than diving into some deeper historical framing

[Anonymous No.13408971]

>>13408956
agreed - i enjoy reading dosto's works because they're sort of relatable to dark and pessimistic moods, and it's comforting in a way to know he thought that such a character was "inevitable" given the social circumstances of his time and the odd relatability of the combination of social "progression" for lack of a current term, but they can read like extended r9k feels

[Anonymous No.13409011]

>>13408956
The underground man is at a crossroads between materialist utopias, Western influence on the one hand and Bolshevism on the other. And on a personal scale, it maps out as nihilism and rational egoism. He can't reconcile the obscenity of petty pleasure and the renouncement of it as the latter would be denying part of who he is for the sake of moralistic grandstanding. Has no way to navigate this space and is unable to strike a balance.
>The underground man is a neet living in a basement ranting about how shit society is
While partly true, you're absolutely braindead. Just because there is some intersection between a character's/narrator's traits and some irl identifiable stereotype doesn't necessarily mean that it's congruent with the meaning of the book, authorial intent, or any reasonable interpretation. Stick to applying bechdel tests to everything as the sole measure of a book's worth and meaning. You're no better than those who do.

[Anonymous No.13409013]

>>13408943
>>13408875
Based posts

>>13408961
Since I'm leading the group I would to go the extra mile and understand it as well as I can. So that I can lead the discussion, highlight important and interesting aspects and give some context, etc. etc.
I know that it isn't Finnegan's Wake.

[Anonymous No.13409023]

>>13409011
What a meaningless post
>identifiable stereotype doesn't necessarily mean that it's congruent with the meaning of the book
I never implied that. I just made a connection with The Underground Man and a community with similar qualities and beliefs
>Stick to applying bechdel tests to everything as the sole measure of a book's worth and meaning. You're no better than those who do.
Where did that come from?

[Anonymous No.13409040]

I recommend reading the chapter from Joseph Frank’s biography of Dostoyevsky on Notes from the Underground and its immediate intellectual context.

[Anonymous No.13409094]

>>13409023
>How is it difficult? It's like reading a well written /r9k/ post
If r9k posters could articulate their confusion as well as this retired mid to late 19th century civil servant, I'd have no issue reading them. Quite the opposite.
>I never implied that. I just made a connection with The Underground Man and a community with similar qualities and beliefs
You implied, even claimed that it reads like r9k. I can't read your intent, but as far as implications go, the underlying structure of the underground man's misery and that of an r9k poster is not the same and does not map out the same. So I fail to see how any implications from it "reading the same" can be true. Not to mention that it does not in fact, read the same.
>Where did that come from?
From your equating of characters' and narrators' traits with the meaning of the book, possible interpretations and/or authorial intent.

[Anonymous No.13409104]

>>13409040
Will do!

[Anonymous No.13409145]

>>13409094
Why are you such a fucking autist?
>If r9k posters could articulate their confusion as well as this retired mid to late 19th century civil servant, I'd have no issue reading them
That why in my post I literally said "a well written post"
>You implied, even claimed that it reads like r9k
The reason I equated Notes to a /r9k/ post is because the posters there have similar views to the Underground Man.
>From your equating of characters' and narrators' traits with the meaning of the book
Never did lol

[Anonymous No.13409208]

>>13409145
You claimed that the characters musings are as accessible as those of a r9k poster. >>13408781 Not true in content and even less accessible through historical contextualisation.
You implied a similar quality and implications of thought based on "basement neets ranting about society" >>13408956. Not true. Basement dwellers upset at society are many and constitute much of lit.
You said it reads the same as a "well written r9k post" >>13408781. It doesn't. If r9k posts were close to the underground man's monologues, they would in fact not be the r9k that we know of. Also the character's history and age reveals an entirely different background. Not to say that there aren't any similarities in their misery.

[Anonymous No.13409622]

>>13408956
>comparing literature to 4chan boards
please find the time in your day today to hang yourself

[Anonymous No.13410325]

>>13408840
>My friends are non-readers
>making them read Classic Russian literature
Are you a retard? You should have selected something a little more palatable. Crime and Punishment is a much better in on Dostoevsky. But i you really should have gotten something shorter and simpler, like Of Mice and Men or Animal Farm. Although i'm assume your friends to be a little on the dimmer side.

[Anonymous No.13410413]

>>13410325
They're all university grade fucko

[Anonymous No.13410452]

>>13410413
And? I'm not implying they can't read it, but I doubt non-readers would find Notes from the Underground that interesting without being aware of Dostoevsky's other works.

[Anonymous No.13410474]

>>13410452
Yeaahh, I'm thinking about the Nose/the Overcoat next or maybe thw Cloven Viscount by Calvino

[Anonymous No.13411015]

Alright, I’ve got some supplementary material, but it’s a little old. Posting screenshots fren.

[Anonymous No.13411037]

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[Anonymous No.13411059]

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[Anonymous No.13411194]

>>13408692
Thus spake Zarathustra

[Anonymous No.13411273]

>>13411015
Thanks! Will read!

[Anonymous No.13411577]

>>13411067
Sadly, we're missing p. 666
Very interesting read though

[Anonymous No.13411662]

>>13411037
>>13411045
>>13411052
>>13411059
>>13411067
>>13411073
Thanks
But it's missing a part there
Also what book

[Anonymous No.13411853]

>>13409208
This is such a pointless fucking argument. Yes, a book written by one of the greatest authors ever is not comparable to a 4chan post by socially stunted weirdos. Can we now stop deconstructing a one-line shitpost that was to make fun Notes being "challenging read" which was compared to /r9k/ for their (Now debunked) subject matter and tone.

[Anonymous No.13412070]

Here is page 666 and the book is called World Masterpieces Revised Published by W. W. Norton & Company copyright 1965 ISBN: 393 09661 0

[Anonymous No.13412456]

>>13408692
This is such a bad first book for a reading club. I empathize with the /r9k/ robots and even I found the characters to be incredibly annoying. The story was also extremely off putting. I understand it's popularity on 4chan, but reading this in a club with irl friends is a no go. When in doubt, always go with normie shit irl. Picking this book is like playing experimental drone music on your car radio on a road trip with friends. Just go with the top 100 hits.

[Anonymous No.13412578]

>>13409011
>>13409094
>>13409208
bruh

[Anonymous No.13413496]

>>13411853
We can indeed stop deconstructing as long as you concede that it was wrong. I wouldn't have done it if it weren't for his (your) incessant defence of it, or it being a general attitude towards several books that are dismissed on unsubstantiated grounds of them being incel manifestos. If 'funny' was its intent, then serious defence shouldn't have been the position towards an autist like me who challenged it.
>>13412578
sup cuz. wagwan?