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/lit/ - Literature

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13395062 No.13395062[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

How can anyone be a Christian? So God has ultimate power and controls the universe, intervenes in it but at the same time we have 'free will' which he doesn't have power over (yet somehow he is still powerful) and then when we die he judges whether he will punish us eternally even though he supposedly has omnipotence? Either he has all the power and intervenes or it he lets us rot in our own choices and then eternally burn in hell

>> No.13395065

>>13395062
God can do anything.

>> No.13395071

>>13395062
We deserve to. That is the difference.

>> No.13395100

>>13395062
Your concept of power is childish. God is the framework of the universe. The concept of evil is just going away from him. Within the framework of his universe we have relative freedom of action. We are constrained by the universe yet we may make a choice within our limitations

>> No.13395106

>>13395062
its obvious you havent studied theology at all. prevenient grace is what enables us to freely choose God, this is the only free act we can make.

>> No.13395108

>>13395062
Christians were put on Earth by the devil to drive the oldfags off of 4chan.
Just like frogposters.

>> No.13395114

>>13395062
Simplify. There is the good path and the bad path. Just follow the good path and you will be rewarded. Live in such a way that you are prepared for death, and have no enemies or regrets. This is the chief aim of philosophy and religion, but only through Christianity can one be perfectly content at death.

>> No.13395118

>>13395062
God doesn't undeniably show himself to preserve freewill, but everyone actually knows he undeniably exists anyway and some reject him but his grace is irresistible unless you resist it because of Satan, also he doesn't care about free will if he decides to harden your heart or send an evil spirit into you like in the Old Testament.

Also if you don't believe all that you'll be tortured for all eternity.

>> No.13395119

>>13395114
>but only through Christianity can one be perfectly content at death.
Christians are so arrogant

>> No.13395138

>>13395119
the brainwashing runs deep

>> No.13395139

God I wish I could feel some of this love that God apparently has plenty of
but no
it seems i am to be "separated" from him for eternity because I apparently reject him by failing to believe

>> No.13395148

>>13395119
Who else but Jesus claimed to take away our sins completely? No matter what religion you follow, you are imperfect and sinful. “No one is righteous, no not one.” So how can you be content at death unless you believe these sins can be washed away?

>> No.13395155

>>13395139
Deuteronomy 4:29
>But from there you will seek the Lord your God and you will find him, if you search after him with all your heart and with all your soul.
Proverbs 8:17
>I love those who love me, and those who seek me diligently find me.
Jeremiah 29:13
>You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.
Matthew 7:7-8
>Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened.
Isaiah 55:6-7
>Seek the Lord while he may be found; call upon him while he is near; let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the Lord, that he may have compassion on him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Lamentations 3:25
>The Lord is good to those who wait for him, to the soul who seeks him.
James 4:8
>Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
2 Chronicles 7:14
>If my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land.
Matthew 5:6
>Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.

>> No.13395166

>>13395155
I still struggle with that. If a man murders me tonight, I am to be damned.

>> No.13395181

>>13395166
It's more likely that believing in Christianity will damn you than not believing it.
If there is a transcendental deity that exists out there and has dominion over your eternal soul it's a total crapshoot as to which religion he'd lord over, if any. Believing in blasphemous deities like God would likely do more harm than disbelieving in the majority of situations.

>> No.13395183

>>13395166
Then the time is now

>> No.13395186

>>13395181
Name one religion that would send you to hell if you were an upstanding Christian and Christianity were incorrect.

>> No.13395190

>>13395183
I cannot baptise myself, nor can I be truly baptised without full faith.

>> No.13395194

God chooses not to interfere with free will. Dishonest wording “he can’t” isn’t an argument

>> No.13395234

>>13395190
Then ask for God’s help and follow
>>13395155
When you have faith, you can get baptized. You can’t use this excuse of “but I might die tomorrow” forever. God will give you the time. He’s given you plenty of opportunities. Start now

>> No.13395250

>>13395234
>When you have faith, you can get baptized.
Fuck it I'll just go to hell

>> No.13395263

>>13395100
>>13395106
God is omnipotent and is the framework of the universe but we apparently have 'free will' which refutes the power that he has. If we have free will because of a universe he created, then our damnation is of his own fault because he created an inherently flawed universe unless you believe in the demiurge.

>> No.13395272

>>13395194
He chooses not to interfere with free will yet wants to punish us for his mistake. He couldn't made paradise, but instead he chose this. It's obvious that this is not the true God but the demiurge.

>> No.13395273

>>13395250
Why do atheists do this? Just the other day, on /lit/, a user responded with “Fuck salvation.” I almost think the guy had bipolar disorder because he seemed open to the idea at first. I don’t get it. Why would you WANT to go to Hell? Do you not see that you are only affirming what some Christians say when they say that atheists send themselves to hell and that they’re not Christians because they don’t want to be Christians?

>> No.13395281

>>13395100
>The concept of evil is just going away from him

How can you go away from him and where he is everywhere and everything?

>> No.13395287

>>13395062
>Either he has all the power and intervenes or it he lets us rot in our own choices and then eternally burn in hell
Not a dichotomy.

>> No.13395303

>>13395287
Prove it brainlet

>> No.13395316

>>13395273
I'm not an atheist by any means.
If I was an atheist we wouldn't be discussing these matters.

>> No.13395326

>>13395316
But you said you fail to believe

>> No.13395335
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13395335

Congrats. You now understand why Cuckstianity is retarded.

>> No.13395349

>>13395326
Not in God
I'm too busy to make a scholar of myself just to appease some anon's will for my to look into Christianity
if that costs me my soul then so be it

>> No.13395363

>>13395349
You can browse /lit/ but you don’t have the time to pray to God or read the Bible?

>> No.13395373

>>13395363
I've got other books on my reading list first
I can try praying but knowing me I'll just converse with a demon

>> No.13395382
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13395382

>>13395065
he can't stop me from making this post argh

>> No.13395386

>>13395373
"deities" are all just various forms of demons anyways, make no mistake.

>> No.13395392

>>13395386
Then hopefully they shall bring me power at least

>> No.13395403

>>13395382
It's to show how retarded you are

>> No.13395414

>>13395108
go back, frogposting is awesome you fucking imbecile.

>> No.13395442

>>13395062
If God is all good he can't be omnipresent, because evil exists and he would be part of evil
If he can't change nature laws he can't be omnipotent
If God is perfect he couldn't assume flawed human body

Christian god is the reason why so many people are atheists, shit is retarded

>> No.13395451
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13395451

>>13395403
>creates a retarded guy
>is powerless to stop his onslaught

>> No.13395459

>>13395451
Dude stop! You'll regret that when you die, trust me dude!

>> No.13395621

>>13395281
It's a matter of orientation

>> No.13395732
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13395732

>>13395459

>> No.13395739

>>13395062

> intervenes in it but at the same time we have 'free will' which he doesn't have power over (yet somehow he is still powerful

Not even a Christian but I'm tempted to convert in rebellion of shit arguments like this. Seriously, how can you be so stupid?

>> No.13395756

>>13395263
The universe isn't perfect because if it was it would be other God. That doesn't mean he didn't create us to be virtuous. We chose to go against him and that's why we suffer. But by seeking him we can redeem ourselves and live an eternal life of virtue.

>> No.13395764

>>13395442
>If God is all good he can't be omnipresent, because evil exists and he would be part of evil
How do you define “all good” ?

>> No.13395781

>>13395442
Evil is absence of good.
Miracles are a thing.
God can do whatever he wants and still be perfect.

>> No.13395817
File: 129 KB, 739x1000, Hieronymus_Wierix_-_Acedia_-_WGA25736.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13395817

>>13395392
You're having acedia. I think it is due to fear. Pray and read, friend. Do not fall on sloth's claws. I think you are the guy I was talking yesterday. Trust in God and he will not let you fall.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acedia

>> No.13395833

>>13395273
pride

>> No.13395937

>>13395781
>absence

How can there be abscence in God?

>> No.13395980

>>13395937
The same way empty and nothing are a thing. Good is going in accord to God's Will and evil is going against it.

>> No.13396003

>>13395980
God is good...but he's abscence and that's where evil comes from? You're not making sense here.

>> No.13396016

>>13396003
Good depends wholly of God because it is basically the nature of God. Evil is what goes against God. Why would God go against himself?

>> No.13396025

>>13396016
Why would God go against himself? You said so yourself. If God is good and not evil then God is not everything in the way Christians present. If their is a domain where God doesn't reign then he is not God.

>> No.13396042

>>13396025
He has a domain over it. The question is not "how" but "why". It's the same question as "could God make a rock he couldn't lift?" The answer is yes, but would he do it? The answer is no because he is perfect and from perfection we can infer he has integrity.

>> No.13396062

>>13396042
If you believe we have 'free' will then this implies a domain that God is not involved with. If he is involved with it, then it is not 'free' in the sense that you are beliving it to me. God couldn't make a rock that he couldn't lift because the rock emnates from God and is apart of him, just like evil and good is apart of God. Christianity try and distort a very simple truth found in Advaita Idealism and other monist philosophies to a twisted doctrine based on fear.

>> No.13396069

>>13395100
High IQ

>> No.13396089

>>13396062
Like I said before, God is involved in all domains but he chooses what are his actions. There's no contradiction. You believe things are not like Christianity says, but do not say it doesn't make sense because you're biased. Throwing insults just makes you seem stupid because Christian theology already answered a long time ago the questions you are making.

>> No.13396099

>>13396089
By saying God 'chooses' his actions, you are saying that God has plunged into nescience and is undergoing a stage of Becoming. If God is the 'ultimate' everything, then he would be all actions simutaneously as One, not just the 'good' that you believe him to be. Plus, what is good to God may not be good in our eyes because our wisdom is limited. You can say 'christian philosophers have answered this before' all you like but they haven't and I've read a lot of the thinkers, from Origen to Aquinas to Eckhart. If I am wrong you should be able to explain it just like i'm doing now without accusing me of insults and ignorance

>> No.13396105

>>13396099
I think the problem here is that you're conflating Creator and creature. God isn't the universe.

>> No.13396128

>>13396105
As above so below my friend. There is no division

>> No.13396157

>>13395148
Sins can't be taken away. You are accountable for your behaviors, forever. No force in the universe exists which can absolve you of your personal legacy. This is too difficult for many people to stomach, so they resort to religions like Christianity to make themselves feel better over their past guilt. It would be better to devote yourselves to a spiritual regimen like Buddhism, where discipline is cultivated, and where the concept of Karma exists to reinforce the notion that everything holds a consequence to itself.

>> No.13396160

>>13396157
>Jesus stepped into a boat, crossed over and came to his own town. 2 Some men brought to him a paralyzed man, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the man, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.”

>3 At this, some of the teachers of the law said to themselves, “This fellow is blaspheming!”

>4 Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, “Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts? 5 Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’? 6 But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the paralyzed man, “Get up, take your mat and go home.” 7 Then the man got up and went home. 8 When the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe; and they praised God, who had given such authority to man.

>> No.13396191

>>13396128
Sorry, man. In Christianity the universe isn't God.

>> No.13396891

>>13396191
The universe is part of God.

>> No.13397662
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13397662

>>13395062
Wrong picture

>> No.13398077

>>13396891
Maybe in your viewpoint, not the Christian one.

>> No.13398543

>>13395817
Pray to what
I can't pray to jesus if I don't believe

>> No.13400236

>>13398543
Pray for belief.