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/lit/ - Literature

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1339451 No.1339451 [Reply] [Original]

thoughts, /lit/?

>> No.1339452

*yawn* b&

>> No.1339453

>Shit tier
>Russian lit

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

>> No.1339454

>American
>Literature

Pick one

>> No.1339455

inb4 D&E

>> No.1339458
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1339458

Kakihara disapproves of your faggotry.

>> No.1339462

American Lit to me is just culturally devoid. Like other countrys like britain and japan have 10s of thousands of years of fairy tales and campfire tales that have evolved their own unique style. americans don't have this because they were an artificially founded country, so their literature culture is "premature", if you know what I mean.

>> No.1339465
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1339465

Fixed.

>> No.1339470

American literature that is superior to all other national literature: E.A. Poe, Tennessee Williams, William Faulkner, William Carlos Williams, Burroughs, Melville, Lautreamont, Borges, Whitman, TS Eliot, Ezra Pound, F Scott, Ralph Ellison, JD Salinger, Joyce Carol Oates.

AMERICA FUCK YEAH

>> No.1339475

>>1339462
tell me, how does one found a literally natural country, then?

>> No.1339476

>>1339470

Also, Hemingway, Henry James, Kesey, Steinbeck, Wolfe, Stein, and especially Saul Bellow.

>> No.1339477
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1339477

>> No.1339479

>>1339470
>Implying Faulkner isn't unbearable to read

>> No.1339481

>>1339475

er, you don't just move in, kill the natives and create a constitution? real countries just happen.

>> No.1339482

>>1339462
Having fun in the 19th century?

>> No.1339485

>>1339481
>>1339481
>>1339481

You just described how every country ever was founded, middle-schooler.

>> No.1339487

>>1339482

>implying literature didn't die with Joyce

>> No.1339488

>>1339479
I really, really don't think so. I loved reading it. Maybe it's because I'm from the south?

>> No.1339489

I thoroughly enjoy Japanese literature such as ToraDora and Welcome to the NHK, therefore I approve of this tier list.

>> No.1339490

>>1339475
Evolution

>> No.1339492
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1339492

>>1339485

>he has no grasp of history or politics

>> No.1339493

>>1339487
>Literature
>Joyce

Pick one

>> No.1339495

>>1339489
That's not literature. Those books are for children

>> No.1339497

>>1339470
Somehow you forgot Twain.

>> No.1339498

None of you have enough knowledge to make rankings like these I am afraid.

>> No.1339499

>>1339493

i meant he killed literature.

>> No.1339505

>>1339488
>Implying that personal taste is subjec-

Wait.
Oh
Oh my god.
GUYS.
OH MY FUCKING GOD.
It's....
okay.
IT'S OKAY FOR PEOPLE TO HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS ABOUT BOOKS.
Shit-
Maybe even movies and music!
Oh my god!
This
This changes everything
I'm leaving this board and actually making...
friends.

>> No.1339506

>Saul Bellow

Seriously, anyone who claims Americans can't write literature has never read Bellow or Fitzgerald, or, for that matter, any number of genius American writers who came about in the 20th century. It took us a while to get going but American literature dominated the 20th century Western canon.

>> No.1339507

Here's a helpful guide to what Japanese books definitely aren't literature and are instead for children:
They contain furigana

>> No.1339509

>>1339465
/thread. Can we move on? We're trying to enjoy ourselves.

>> No.1339511
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1339511

> japanese /lit/
You meant light novels, bro?

>> No.1339514

>>1339511
No, this has been covered.

>>1339507
>>1339495

>> No.1339530

Guh, the obvious trolling of OP aside, Bellow is fucking horrid to read. Turgid prose with a near dearth of anything happening is a supreme recipe for boredom. It was a struggle to even make it through something as short as The Actual.

>> No.1339579

What literature of any worth has Britain ever produced, anyway?

>> No.1339597

Only modification I would make is putting Russian lit in God Tier as well. But yay for Japanese lit love! Soseki is amazing.

>> No.1339600

>>1339481
yes, because every other western culture surely subsists on no amount of oppression or some sort of cultural subjugation, or for that matter just crystallized magically.

Unlike Britain, which just happened. Oh wait, they'd still be Gaelic if the Romans and Germanic tribes hadn't, er, moved in and killed the natives. Don't draw such arbitrary disctinctions on culture and history based purely on the length of the existence of a nation state, bro.

>> No.1339614

>>1339600

bro, stop the literary dick-waving and go pick up a history book once in a while.

>> No.1339619
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1339619

OP is...

pic related

>> No.1339621

>real countries just happen
LOLOLOLO JUST LIKE REAL GENDER AND REAL RACE BRO

>> No.1339635

>>1339621

are you trying to say countries are a social construct? lol.

>> No.1339637

>>1339635
No that's just fucking cliche.

The correct term is cultural construct, you stupid fag.

>> No.1339640

>>1339635
what the fuck else are they?

>> No.1339646

>>1339640

imagined communities

>> No.1339652

>>1339637
>>1339640

Er, societies with names and borders which makes them distinct countries? You don't have to give them post-modern-post-structuralist labels or whatever.

>> No.1339656

>>1339652
which is...something decided upon, imagined, whatever the fuck you want, by culture, given a national identity that is propogated by culture politically determined by a government. We're just throwing semantic poop back and forth here, bro. Except I'm right.

>> No.1339659

>>1339656

Right about what? lol. You're just a social construct and truth is relative, right?

>> No.1339667

>>1339652
>societies with names and borders which makes them distinct countries?
>bodies with penises or vaginas which make them distinct genders
>skins with tones and pigments which make them distinct races

looool

>> No.1339669
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1339669

>>1339659
nah mang, it's quite objective that a country, is determined by society and culture, through various institutions. lrn2anthropology.

>> No.1339670

"Cultural heritage is not the same thing as national identity"

>> No.1339671

>>1339652

>You don't have to give them post-modern-post-structuralist labels or whatever.

You're an idiot. Go read this, you fucking twat: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_state

It's Wikipedia, so maybe after you master that, you can move on to real books and thinking like an adult instead of a braindead child.

>> No.1339678
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1339678

>>1339659
>>1339652
>>1339635

>> No.1339684

HEY FUCKERS

SOCIAL CONSTRUCT =/= SUBJETIVITY

ALSO, TRIPS ARE FOR FAGGOTS

>> No.1339685

>>1339667

i don't see any problem here. have you read 2000 hours worth of literature that allows you to meak some kind of pedantic semantic distinction that makes me "dumb"?

>>1339669

ok.. but you're just using buzzwords to prove me wrong. i'm basically agreeing with you here, no need to keep waving your penis around.

>>1339671

i obviously know what a nation state is. i was talking about countries in the geological sense.

>> No.1339693

>>1339685

>countries in the geological sense
>geological

Confirmed for troll.

>> No.1339702

>>1339693

Yeah, you know, like Cuba or Japan.

>> No.1339703
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1339703

Haha real funny guys but let's not get carried away here, it's pretty obvious to anyone without a plenoply of psychological issues that someone with a penis is not a woman and someone with a vagina is not a man, no matter how hard they try 2 be

>> No.1339704

>>1339693

I meant geographical

>> No.1339723
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1339723

>>1339685

>i obviously know what a nation state is. i was talking about countries in the geological sense.

>> No.1339728

ITT: Sad little tripfags bully people over semantics

>> No.1339735

>>1339728

You must be new here.

>> No.1339743
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1339743

>>1339728
it's the only thing that makes me feel whole anymore

>> No.1339748
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1339748

>this thread

>> No.1339749

>>1339492

Every single country in the world, throughout all of history, excepting only those communities founded on virgin soil, existed by the necessity of removing or converting the existing populace and establishing Law. Granted, the time over which these transformations occurred varies, but fundamentally the creation of the United States and its sister Democracies was of the same order as the birth of any country. Ever.
From your posts I gather that you are some pseudo-intellectual European, clinging to generalities and blind to nuance. If you didn't understand my first post I doubt you will this one.

>>1339487
>>1339493
And you two have far to go.

captcha: scoppio literature

>> No.1339757

>>1339749

This just isn't true. There was a time when not every peace of land was populated by humans. These pieces of land were then settled in. Therefore, societies were founded without killing the native populace.

Misanthropy is fashionable bro, I know, but not every human being has committed evil acts.

>> No.1339760
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1339760

I suppose no one cares about Irish lit ;_;. I know we're a tiny country, but why have contributed a good amount of literature for being such a tiny country.

>> No.1339762

>>1339760

>joyce
>beckett
>...
>...
>...
>little help?

>> No.1339764

>>1339757

I want everyone to take note of this post. This, this is how you troll on 4chan.

>> No.1339766

>>1339760
With Dylan Thomas, Wales has contributed more than the rest of the British Isles..j/k but seriously, Samuel Beckett is a giant and if only for him Ireland should be appreciated.

>> No.1339767

>>1339619

That pic is the only thing of worth in thread.

>> No.1339774

>>1339757
>>1339757
I specifically included that clause in my post you loser.

>> No.1339775

>>1339762

yeats, seamus heaney, beckett

>> No.1339777

>>1339762
>Yeats
>Wilde
>Swift (I guess that could go both ways)
>Stoker (he popularized fucking vampires, we wouldn't have castlevania if it weren't for him.)

>> No.1339778

All jokes aside, African lit is pretty good. Depending on who ruled them during colonial times, they espouse some of the qualities of their respective European overlords.

>> No.1339783

>>1339451
Okay I want to troll /lit/. I know! I'll make a tier list. I'll put Japanese /lit/ at the top lol. They will be so mad and call me a weeaboo. I'll put british lit up there too because they had to read the boring shit in school.

That's too obvious though, I must put German and French in good tier to make them take me seriously.

They say they love Spanish stuff but only talk about three or four authors so it goes in ok.

Finally I'll put their beloved American and Russian lit in shit tier.

Guaranteed replies
10/10 OP

>> No.1339789

>>1339774

where in your post have you mentioned that?

>> No.1339794
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1339794

>>1339778
>African lit

>> No.1339795

>>1339783
thread/

>> No.1339801

>>1339481
>implying this isn't a constant throughout history

TROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLL HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

>> No.1339803

>>1339783
Japanese lit is actually really good.

>> No.1339805

>>1339789
>excepting only those communities founded on virgin soil

Do you wonder why I go through the motions, troll? It's because I have nothing to do tonight but defeat you.

>> No.1339806

burn everything post-colonial, it is cultural butthurt sui generis

>> No.1339807

God Tier:
British lit

High Tier:
American lit, Russian lit, French lit,

Mid Tier:
German lit, Spanish lit

Low Tier:
Japanese lit

>> No.1339814

>>1339807
I like this one. The best Japanese lit is approximated Euro or American lit.

>> No.1339818

>>1339794
No seriously, the South Africans, Rhodesian and the Kenyans know how to fucking write. They're not as glitzy but they have a distinctly Victorian taste to their works. Don't even get me started on the French Algerians

>> No.1339819

>>1339807
So what Japanese lit have you actually read?

>> No.1339821

>>1339803
I never said it wasn't. Just saying that admitting you like Japanese lit on 4chan is likely to get you called a weeaboo. To be honest I don't judge literature by country. If anything, I judge by genre.

>> No.1339823
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1339823

>>1339805

>virgin soil

I'm pretty sure that's an agricultural term. You could have used a less purple way to describe it anyway, and so what? My point still stands that there are countries that didn't need to be taken by imperial force. There wasn't always empires.

>> No.1339827

I'm an American who really likes Russian literature, British Literature and American Literature. What is some good japanese literature I can get a hold of.

>> No.1339832

>>1339827
Try out the authors Natsume Soseki, Yasunari Kawabata, Yukio Mishima, and Junichiro Tanizaki. All are amazing in different ways.

>> No.1339843

>>1339832
Mishima is amazing! (too bad he lost his head though)
Also, Haiku is an amazing poetic form done best by the Japanese...as a side note, does /lit/ even consider poetry as literature?

>> No.1339844

>>1339823
Military force is the ubiquitous means of making a nation. Can you name an exception?

>> No.1339854

>>1339823
Before empires there were tribes.

People have always been territorial and violent, it's in our DNA.

>> No.1339859

>>1339452
This is literature related, go to bed

>> No.1339864

>>1339465
>>1339509
Neither of you know what a discussion is, seeing how every thread contains "STOP LIKING WHAT I LIKE" (witty 'n' sarcastic hurp durp)

>> No.1339871

God Tier: Mishima, Akutagawa

Good Tier: Soseki, Murakami, Dazai

Okay Tier: Kawabata, Abe

Shit Tier: Oe

>> No.1339874

>>1339844

ubiquitous ≠ only

That's all that needs to be said. i'm not a history buff so can't name specific examples but there has been sovereign states not gained by the edge of a blade or the barrel of a gun, i'm sure.

>>1339854

>humans are bad

That's really cool man, have you heard of the book "the catcher in the rye" by jd salinger?? I think you'd like it.

>> No.1339875

>>1339871

Add Tanizaki to the Shit Tier, too.

>> No.1339882

>>1339875
Damn son, what Tanizaki have you been reading?

>> No.1339886

>>1339882

I don't mean to be crass, I just really, really hated how incredibly tiring and boring The Makioka Sisters was.

>> No.1339887

>>1339871
Mine goes like:

God Tier: Kawabata, Dazai, Akutagawa

Good Tier: Soseki, Tanizaki, Ogai

Okay Tier: Mishima, Abe

It's fun to see other people's opinions on this though.

>> No.1339890

Tanizaki wrote a nice little essay on Japanese Aesthetics called "in praise of shadows''..haven't read his novels though.

>> No.1339893

>>1339886
Ah, well check out some of his other work! The Key and Diary of a Mad Old Man are two that are far from boring imo. Maybe they can restore your opinion of him.

>> No.1339894

>>1339874
>by the edge of a blade or the barrel of a gun, i'm sure.

But always by the threat. I'm sure.
... Ok, 99.99% of countries anyway, but all the major ones, the great ones, including America, if I may return to the original point.

>humans are bad
>That's really cool man, have you heard of the book "the catcher in the rye" by jd salinger?? I think you'd like it.

Why don't you try debating it.
>You know it to be true.

>> No.1339896

>>1339887

I haven't gotten around to reading Ogai but I heard he's quite good.

Also, I fight the urge to put Akutagawa, Dazai and Mishima in God Tier because it makes me feel like I'm overestimating their works.

Can I ask why Mishima is so low on your tier, though? I personally think that he was Japan's best writer but I'd like to hear your thoughts.

>> No.1339900

>>1339896
Well, I don't dislike Mishima. I really loved his short story collections Death in Midsummer and Acts of Worship (especially Patriotism). The Sailor Who Fell From Grace With the Sea felt a little 'meh' to me though. And I found The Temple of the Golden Pavillion a little dry (I know, I'm crazy). But I've still got the whole Sea of Fertility series and several other books before I solidify my opinion of him.

>> No.1339901

>>1339893

Okay, I'll give those a shot and see if he can't win me over.

Thank you for the recommendation!

>> No.1339904

>>1339874

>>1339854
>humans are bad
That's really cool man, have you heard of the book "the catcher in the rye" by jd salinger?? I think you'd like it.

He didn't say humans were bad, he said they were territorial. Don't generalize.

>> No.1339909

>>1339900

To be honest, I'm the world's biggest Mishima fan and, aside from the interesting personal philosophies of the characters, I really disliked The Temple of the Golden Pavilion. I think he wrote it with the intention of having a stable, respectable bestseller on his hands.

What really made me adore his work what the Sea of Fertility so hopefully you'll get a chance to work through that series and it'll give you a better scope of his artistic merit. My second favourite is either Confessions of a Mask or Forbidden Colours...probably the latter.

>> No.1339915

>>1339909
I was actually thinking of reading either The Sound of Waves or Confessions of a Mask next, but I also own Forbidden Colors (I think I actually own everything translated except for Sun and Steel and his No plays). But I'll definitely be reading more of him regardless!

>> No.1341361

Bump.

>> No.1341371

>>1339451
obvious troll is obvious

>> No.1341372

>>1339470
>American Literature
>Borges

Presidente Fox, what are you doing posting in 4chan?

>> No.1341376

>>1339887

So where you place Kenzaburo Oe?

>> No.1341381 [DELETED] 
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1341381

>>1339481

>Er, societies with names and borders which makes them distinct countries?

>> No.1341384
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1341384

>>1339652

>Er, societies with names and borders which makes them distinct countries?

>> No.1341391

>>1341376
I haven't actually read any of his works yet. I do own Nip the Buds, Shoot the Kids and A Personal Matter though. I'll be getting around to him [and others like Endo] eventually.

>> No.1341424

Why not just judge books for BOOKS instead over-generalizing and entire culture based on their literature? Each culture has something to offer in terms of literature.

Those of you who are taking part in this nonsense bullshit probably don't really know shit, leading me to believe you are unintelligent and of the inferior species a.k.a. the dumb.