/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.13375923]

Was he right about everything or have his views become outdated? Why was he so influential in the 1920's but forgotten today?

[Anonymous No.13376077]

>>13375923
Why truth is somehow missed in this era? No clue anon

[Anonymous No.13376316]

>>13376077
hmmh

[Anonymous No.13376391]

>>13375923
bonafied pseud that got btfo by popper. read popper instead.

[Anonymous No.13376475]

>>13376391
Popper only criticized Spengler for being unscientific, but Spengler shat all over Pooper (and all scientific interpretations of the course of history, especially Marx) by being right. They still cant get the stains of his sharts out of it, no matter how hard they try.

[Anonymous No.13376545]

>>13375923
Time proved some of his predictions were wrong. IMO he was too focused on the idea that civilization was like an autonomous living organism. History clearly follows some cycles and patterns though, so he clearly was onto something.

[Anonymous No.13376611]

>>13376545
Time has only proved him right. see "Prophet of Decline" by John Farrenkopf. Or "Spengler's Future" by John J. Reilly which is even more damning. It was written in 1993 and goes further than Spengler with the comparison of our current age with that of other cultures. According to him around the year 2020 we would enter an "Age of Embarrassment" that precedes Sullaism, as the people elect more and more unorthodox leaders in the hopes of combatting national instability. It's the works written about Spengler in the century since his death that prove him right.

[Anonymous No.13376756]

>>13376611
>as the people elect more and more unorthodox leaders in the hopes of combatting national instability.
hmm

[Anonymous No.13377414]

>>13376756
indeed

[Anonymous No.13377566]

>Wittgenstein cited Spengler as an influence
can someone explain how Spengler was an influence on him? The two seem completely unrelated.

[Anonymous No.13377675]

>>13375923
Mostly right
He was wrong on a few things he wrote about pre-columbian America and ancient Sumeria but that is mostly to the state of archeology in the 1920s.

>>13377566
Spengler was very influential back in the day.
Name-dropping him was the standard

[Anonymous No.13377676]

>>13376475
COPE

[Anonymous No.13377912]

>>13377566
Probably Spengler's theories on how human culture and language first appeared in primitive man

[Anonymous No.13377981]

>>13377912
Wittgenstein also shared Spengler's cultural pessimism, it's not just his linguistics.

[Anonymous No.13378643]

Because generations of right-wing midwits have appropriated and misinterpreted his most famous work, meaning that most people who have heard of him associate him with a clarion call to commit genocide in the name of the salvation of Western civilization.

[Anonymous No.13378732]

>>13378643
how has he been misinterpreted then?

[Anonymous No.13378915]

>>13378643
nah, Adorno already lamented that Spengler had been forgotten back in the 1950's

[Anonymous No.13378961]

>>13378732
Most people have a preconceived notion of The Decline of the West based on the title alone, that the entire work is just about the literal decline of the West. For them the word "decline" implies catastrophe. The title is just the conclusion, but even then it's a misnomer. I think the publisher chose the title and Spengler just went with it because he was having serious trouble finding a publisher in the first place. The work is a new perspective on history and culture that would be much better described as "The Perfection of the West", because I think the word 'perfection' describes Spengler's theory of culture becoming and become much better. But all his perspectives and insight on culture get lost in the noise of perceived catastrophic decline by people who haven't read him.

[Anonymous No.13378976]

>>13378915
>nah

[Anonymous No.13378985]

>>13378976
It's a perfectly normal word

[Anonymous No.13378999]

>>13376611
>as the people elect more and more unorthodox leaders in the hopes of combatting national instability.
Oh, man, shit is gonna get wild. I can't wait

[Anonymous No.13379011]

>>13378961
I dont really see this interpretation among most right wingers.Letting aside the fact that liberals and the left completely ignore him because he's a racist "reactionary" (nevermind the fact that Spengler doesnt believe reaction to be even possible), i dont think the far right misinterprets him all that much. At least those who read him, not those who get stuck on the title of Decline, which Spengler himself admits wasn't the most truthful title he could've given.

I never really see people associate Spengler with catastrophic decline, more slow rot, if anything. The only case where Spengler is more doomsday oriented is in man and technics, and that is in the frame of ecological catastrophes and extinction of species.

[Anonymous No.13379020]

>>13378999
>Mfw the president of the USA, the most powerful nation in human history, tweets "BORING" during a presidential debate
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1144056731653169152

Also the democratic debate was an embarrassment.

[Anonymous No.13379031]

>>13375923
>Was he right about everything or have his views become outdated?

He wasn't right about everything and no for the most part his views have remained as the general for civilisation. His exact defining standards of civilisation can be argued however generally correct. His pessimistic views of hope being a sign of cowardice put the effectual of death or suffering as transcending any immediate limiting itself to a total self destructive mentality and behaviour. A common misunderstanding by many a great men, they choose one particular reference in distance of the effectual blindly not seeing any other - not realising that judgement by the effectual cannot be limited to specific time and place but generality. For if this is not done logic flawed and we are left with something beyond Good and Evil - beyond Suffering and Pleasure - We are left with a nothing.

>Why was he so influential in the 1920's but forgotten today?
His association with Fascist movements as well as typically speaking his ideological views associated and held by Hitler such as his view on race.

[Anonymous No.13379040]

>>13379011
>At least those who read him, not those who get stuck on the title of Decline
You fucking idiot--those are obviously the ones in question. Anyone who has actually read the book is probably a little bit more than a midwit.

[Anonymous No.13379043]

>>13377566
Then you do not know how man or the human mind works - especially and in this case the mind of the creative and intuitive. I could cite Plato as inspiration for the concept of duality better understood as he stated within the Phaedo yet not directly nor likely intently as a thing in itself.

[Anonymous No.13379049]

>>13379040
But ive honestly never encountered someone who talked about Spengler without reading him. Ever.

[Anonymous No.13379051]

>>13379011
I'm thinking of people like Francis Parker Yockey who was a full on neo nazi and based his ideology on a warped interpretation of Spengler.

[Anonymous No.13379055]

>>13379011
>I never really see people associate Spengler with catastrophic decline, more slow rot, if anything
Same exact error. You're splitting hairs here.
> The only case where Spengler is more doomsday oriented is in man and technics, and that is in the frame of ecological catastrophes and extinction of species.
Again, this is not about what Spengler himself thought. It's about what ideologues of the past century have done with his Name and the associations people make with his work. Any text, especially a historical text with big themes like The Going-Under of the West, can be twisted to mean something other than what the author intended.
>>13379049
Not even on the Internet? Are you sure?

[Anonymous No.13379068]

>>13376391
>>13376475
>>13377676
He was an uncreative Jew who could only understand other men's works by the destruction there of. He could not create for he lacked this essential creative force and so he pressed himself against the other side of this glass panel hoping it may shatter for him to claim "look I found a shard".

[Anonymous No.13379081]

>>13379068
There are about a million solid criticisms of Popper that can be made without reference to his Judaism. You're a moron.

[Anonymous No.13379086]

>>13379081
There really arent solid criticisms of Popper outside of his shitty political and ethical philosophy.

[Anonymous No.13379112]

>>13379086
Are you trying to deflect from the fact that you've been called out for making arguments grounded in anti-Semitism?

[Anonymous No.13379119]

>>13379112
no im not that guy, im just fucking with ya

[Anonymous No.13379126]

>>13379119
Your post was nonsense anyway you mong

[Anonymous No.13379127]

>>13379126
i know

[Anonymous No.13379128]

>>13379081
>a million
more like 6 million

[Anonymous No.13379146]

>>13377566
Wittgenstein literally went school with Hitler. He grew in Austria that was grappling with fascism. Spengler undoubtedly was an influential academic.

[Anonymous No.13379155]

>>13379086
His greatest find is that science is based on falsifability was btfo by scientific anarchy.

[Anonymous No.13379182]

>>13379081
>thinks I'm using his Jewishness as the main portion of critique
>can't read
>thinks race and culture doesn't contain unique identifiable character

[Anonymous No.13379183]

>>13375923
Big overarching theories fell out of favor hard after the sixties (approximately). Historians redirected themselves to studying the minutiae of history. Proabably has to do with the influence of structuralism/post-structuralism, but I'm hardly an expert.

[Anonymous No.13379189]

>>13379128
buddum tssssssssssssssssssss

[Anonymous No.13379202]

>>13379182
>>thinks I'm using his Jewishness as the main portion of critique
That you include it at all speaks volumes about your general attitude toward Jewish people.
>can't read
"I'm not anti-Semitic, you're illiterate!"
>thinks race and culture doesn't contain unique identifiable character
It's the 21st century, friend. We know better than this. Maybe you don't, but you're stupid, so I don't want to include you in my "we."

[Anonymous No.13379213]

>>13378961
>he work is a new perspective on history and culture that would be much better described as "The Perfection of the West", because I think the word 'perfection' describes Spengler's theory of culture becoming and become much better. But all his perspectives and insight on culture get lost in the noise of perceived catastrophic decline by people who haven't read him.
Seems like you haven't read him either.

[Anonymous No.13379314]

>>13379202
>That you include it at all speaks volumes about your general attitude toward Jewish people.
I guess everyone has just been a bigot haven't they? Even if one totally ignores any genetic value of difference you should still look to the cultural. The Jew truly came into being as a particular being apart from state at the murder of Christ, they became a Theological definition. Look to the Talmudic writings and beliefs - the primary Holy book of the Jews. It is fucking built around hatred and disgust of goyum. It truly asserts itself by this belief with its statement and mockery of Jesus Christ. How the prance about talking of how they killed him, how mother Mary was a whore, how Jesus was cooked alive in faeces and piss. It was the continuation of the previous Jewish sects such as the Pharisees or Saduces however it was written after the death of Christ and collected as the Talmud. It truly became "something" in whole at the murder of Christ. How man separated themselves against or for.

Now you spend two thousands years with the mentality of hating the larger state, feeding off the larger state (which had almost always been of European decent), to prize such things as trickery and the damage of goyum to benefit the Jews most best expressed in their use of usury. Eventually this becomes a mentality, every boy is raised to believe this and to act a certain way to the point that even once in the modern century and apart from religion they follow a certain mentality of how they had been raised. Now I do think an ethnic factor plays a role as both a cause and effect of such a mentality however you cannot deny the wandering Jews consistent degenerative attitude towards any man other than the Jew.

>"I'm not anti-Semitic, you're illiterate!"
Didn't deny that but if you don't have enough brains to see that was simply the first statement and apart from the latter than you shouldn't be critiquing others posts.

>It's the 21st century, friend. We know better than this. Maybe you don't, but you're stupid, so I don't want to include you in my "we."
Tell me how many niggers have you seen create something great? Why is it this reactionary mentality has always been so strong in the Jew? It is because yes it exists genetically but he has been raised to hate those of non Jewish blood.

Do you deny the existence of race at all? Do you deny the varying existence of IQ among race? Do you deny inherent psychological factors from thousands of years of development?

The jews do not control the world as /pol/ thinks, Hitler used them as a necessary scapegoat. However with that they hold a very prominent place within the world while still banding together by blood and with that are extremely influential.

[Anonymous No.13379476]

>>13379213
Why do you think so? I don't mean perfected in a positive sense. The culture stage is the Goethean becoming as the culture works out its historical picture, what I call the perfection. The violin, the printing press, the gun, the caravel, the compass, are all invented roughly at the same time, when Faustian culture begins expressing its will to conquer nature in earnest. This is pure becoming, when the motivation is simply the Faustian urge to break all physical boundaries. When space is then conquered, after the Age of Discovery, after classical music is finished off by Wagner, after the great age of poetry and drama in the likes of Goethe and Shakespeare, after Kant's Critique, the becoming has been perfected into the become and our culture transitioned to civilization. Philosophy turns from metaphysics to politics, poetry and drama become "the novel" and "the film", music becomes a meaningless fashion accessory. The civilization is left with the perfected "fixed stock of forms" as Spengler calls it.

[Anonymous No.13380114]

>>13379314
I'm not even going to read the body of your post, you conclusion is all I need to see
>Implying peanut butter isn't great
>Implying using the word "nigger" helps your case

[Anonymous No.13380168]

>>13380114
The last part wasn't the conclusion, the second last were.

Besides can't handle a debate? I understand you read it but being the innocent little autist you are of the masses you can't contemplate it and so reject it. "ooga booga me no understando"

Stop being a nigger tier brainlet and read. Also

>implying racial difference in iq doesn't exist.

[Anonymous No.13380175]

>>13380168
>you but unironically IRL

[Anonymous No.13380191]

>>13376611
Is there anywhere to get "Spengler's Future" where it isn't insanely expensive like on Amazon? If not I don't suppose you could give me a summary of some of the most interesting ideas? I also want to add that "The Coming Caesars" by Amaury de Riencourt was very illuminating

[Anonymous No.13380194]

>>13377566
Foxy is so cute! ^_^

[Anonymous No.13380200]

>>13376611
>>13380191
It's also interesting that De Riencourt thought we had already passed Sullaism, that it was the attempt in the 50's to reign back power from the presidency after FDR.

[Anonymous No.13380216]

He fell out of favor due to the more metaphysical and religious theories of historical decline popularized by Evola and Guenon.

[Anonymous No.13380224]

>>13380175
Actually a very social person. An extrovert. Of course most interaction means fucking nothing but hey I've learnt to act like a confident jerk and it's gotten me many a babe. I just so happen to also be good looking, 6 ft 3, blonde hair and blue eyed.

You don't have to feel insecure anon so stop projecting. And before you go "b..but your lying" I don't give a fuck what you think, I'm a rarity but yes people like me who have the best of the social/morphological lottery as well as intelligence and creativity.

[Anonymous No.13380246]

>>13380224

[Anonymous No.13380252]

>>13380246
Yea anon I look nothing like that and you know it. Absolute shit tier response 2/10.

[Anonymous No.13380259]

>>13380191
The entire text is available for free here
http://www.benespen.com/spenglers-future
This is the part of interest
http://www.benespen.com/spenglers-future#sf-comedy-errors

[Anonymous No.13380296]

>>13380252
Sorry here's a pic from a better angle

[Anonymous No.13380309]

>>13375923
He's not forgotten. You nerds make threads about him daily.

[Anonymous No.13380326]

>>13380296
wow, creative.

>Can't give a thought out and critical response because of a lack of knowledge so just resorts ad hominem

[Anonymous No.13380331]

>>13380326
Can't reason against racism desu, not worth the trouble bozo

[Anonymous No.13380345]

>>13380331
>Can't reason against racism desu, not worth the trouble bozo
So you lack the ability to do so? Typical. "I swear I can beat you in an argument on this topic I believe in but you know I don't want to spend much time on it so I'll just spend another 3 hours continually replying back and forth wasting more time and effort than it would of taken to originally just give you an answer"

[Anonymous No.13380357]

>>13380345
blah blah blah

[Anonymous No.13380368]

>>13380309
its always the same poster

[Anonymous No.13380382]

>>13380368
It's ok though. He triggers /lit/ Everytime

[Anonymous No.13380429]

>>13380357
good for you bucko.

[Famenag No.13380506]

>>13380194
So adorable but don't they carry rabies?

[Anonymous No.13380582]

>>13379068
Of which one are you talking?
Popper and Spengler were both jewish

[Anonymous No.13380595]

>>13380506
anything that isn't domesticated is rabid, that's what rabies is. the state of nature. fuck hobbes.

[Anonymous No.13380622]

>>13380582
Popper, his Jewish blood was not the base of the insult but simply an added point.

[Famenag No.13380701]

>>13376611
>>13380200
Had Obama turned out to be the new FDR that many on the left had hoped for, instead of just another Clinton/Bush globalist, Trump would never have made it anywhere near the White House. Trump is what happens when the ""left"" is focused on talking about but not actually doing anything about social justice concerns while the ""right"" is all about pretending to fight abortion. And of course both are all in on waging forever wars in the Middle east.

[Anonymous No.13380711]

>>13380595
not only the content, but the sentiment of this post is wrong and angers me

[Anonymous No.13380730]

>>13379051
>it's a warped interpretation because Yockey is le ebil neo nazi!!
You're retarded

[Anonymous No.13380736]

>>13380711
can't handle the truth, eh? typical

[Anonymous No.13381104]

>>13380506
they can be rabid, but if they are then you'll usually notice it from their unusual behaviour

[Anonymous No.13381257]

>>13380246
>>13380296
>>13380357
cringe and reddit-pilled

[Anonymous No.13381722]

>>13380582
>Popper and Spengler were both jewish
Spengler was only distantly related to any Jewish woman. He wouldn't have been considered Jewish by any reasonable standards, even by the Nuremberg laws at the time.

[Anonymous No.13382470]

bump

[Anonymous No.13382485]

>>13379031
>His pessimistic views of hope being a sign of cowardice put the effectual of death or suffering as transcending any immediate limiting itself to a total self destructive mentality and behaviour.
Hwat

[Anonymous No.13383443]

>>13382485
Word salad

[Anonymous No.13384357]

>>13380191
Egon Frediell's cultural history (cba to look up the English title). Very much a continuation of Spengler's work/in his spirit -- or in Goethe's spirit (which is largely Spengler's as well). Quite niche, very interesting, and he writes damn well. He even acknowledges Stirner.