[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 103 KB, 750x544, punished molyneux a fallen libertarian.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13351267 No.13351267 [Reply] [Original]

there are no books refuting the fact that capitalism can be worse than communism

>> No.13351270

>>13351267
Nobody can admit that fascism kills less than either.

>> No.13351271

Yet it hasn't happened.

>> No.13351310

>>13351267
Everyone who ever didn't die because of communism died because of capitalism.

>> No.13351320

>can be
Or demonstrably is.

>>13351270
State capitalism is bad enough without the extra thick element of nationalism, racism and sexism.

>> No.13351325

>>13351320
Why are those things bad?

>> No.13351340

>>13351325
Some people have dark skin and some people are women. And they are people.
Nations are odious for obvious reasons.

>> No.13351351

>>13351320
>>13351340
You are extremely spooked for someone who claims to follow Stirner. Worst fucking poster here and it's not even close. I wish Tyler/ :3 would just finish you.

>> No.13351375

>>13351351
>calls out nation-states as odious
>claims I’m spooked
Have you even read Stirner?

>> No.13351388

>>13351375
If Stirner were alive today, he wouldn't be on the internet whining about fucking racism and sexism.

>> No.13351408

>>13351388
He’d be giving guns to the homeless

The idea of racial differences is a spook, but do you believe sex is a spook?
Why are fascists so spooked anon? Hu?

>> No.13351432

>>13351340
I still don’t understand why those things are bad?

>> No.13351796

>>13351408
Oh yeah the homeless are well known for being anti racist and sexist

>> No.13352412

>>13351325
damn... deep

>> No.13352513

>>13351408
>The idea of racial differences is a spook
Sounds like you're the one who's spooked

>> No.13352699

>>13351408
Yeah, Egoism is all about helping other people and fighting bigotry. GTFO

>> No.13352755

>>13351267
who's on first?

>> No.13352802

If this picture is supposed to be a wow just wow about muh ebil nazis, just remember that Karl Marx explicitly said that human rights were "bourgeois concepts" and rejected them completely. Very amusing to see modern "Communists" applying liberal concepts to Marxism, although it is also sad to see the degeneration of such a great tradition.

>> No.13352810

>>13351408
Difference versus equity is itself an arbitrary distinction. You are using "spook" as a rediculous buzzword as a cope for the fact that you have been thoughroughly BTFO on race differences before.

>> No.13352819

>>13351408
Are you seriously trying to say that Stirner would give a shit about your gay moral-words? Pure cringe. Just stop posting you are embarassing yourself.

>> No.13352841

>>13351340
How is racism bad? How is whites keeping out non whites bad for whites? It's not, it's good for them

Not letting women vote is good for a society as a whole. Feminism has destroyed families and led to things like encouraging single moms with benefits, and giving women all the power in family courts

What's bad about nationalism? Caring about your people and your country and wanting to protect it. Seems like the foundation of a country

>> No.13353059

>>13352841
>What's bad about nationalism? ...
Because it's inherently superficial? You can't care about your fellow countrymen, and if you say that you do then you're deluding yourself.
Only your social circle is important to you in any meaningful way.

>> No.13353060

>>13352841
>>13351432
>How is whites keeping out non whites bad for whites? It's not, it's good for them
But bad for everyone else, especially people who would want to travel the world and experience different cultures, or even are seeking refuge in the next closest country (which is not a crime).
>Not letting women vote is good for a society as a whole. Feminism has destroyed families and led to things like encouraging single moms with benefits, and giving women all the power in family courts
Not everyone has the time to have a job and manage a family simultaneously. If a single mother needs to dedicate all of her time into supporting children, how will she make money to survive without benefits? This also doubles as proof of the inhumanity of capitalism.
And if the woman in the relationship is determined to objectively be in the right, that's a *you* problem rather than a systemic problem.
>What's bad about nationalism? Caring about your people and your country and wanting to protect it. Seems like the foundation of a country
Becoming attatched to a country and its culture is toxic. Everyone should just be able to leave their country for a better one if they don't like the way things are run there, but toxic nationalism prevents this. As a free thinking and behaving individual you have no reason to be chained to the country you live in.

>> No.13353074

>>13351267
It's possible but not generally true. Most Communist states became state capitalist (China) or became basket cases (Latin America)

>> No.13353104

>>13353060
>what's good for foreigners is more important, don't have an in-group goyim
>think of the single mothers
>you should be able to leave your country for a better one, even if the trend eventually destroys the better one and threatens actual genetic diversity

Whew... Naive to the max.

>> No.13353105

>>13351267
Lenin's Imperialism the final stage of Capitalism.

BTW, free market societies (the Marxist call these capitalist societies) have demonstrably proved more effective at wealth creation, and improving standards of living to any country that adopts it. Even by UN standards. It is worth looking up.

>> No.13353140

>>13353059
>Superficial
Maybe for you. Some of us like looking out for those like us. This is best understood when you're in another country and you meet other countrymen from your own there, creating an invisible bond of brotherhood between similar races.
The Chinese know this.
Jews know this.
And I bet the Indians know this, too.

>> No.13353146

>>13353140
Sameguy here, as a Flip, I know this to be true between pinoys in New Zealand.

>> No.13353147

>>13353104
>>what's good for foreigners is more important, don't have an in-group goyim
Unironically. Supporting the under-privileged should always be top priority
>>think of the single mothers
Unironically
>>you should be able to leave your country for a better one, even if the trend eventually destroys the better one and threatens actual genetic diversity
There is too much space in the world for major nations to be destroyed by migration, and mass race mixing is maximum diversity.

>> No.13353149
File: 385 KB, 541x530, he.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13353149

>>13351408
>racial differences
>biological facts
>spooks
>when spooks are literally about the fallacy of objective morality
>biological facts have anything to do with morality
b-but I thought the left were pro science? just a clump of cells! transexuality and homosexuality is normal, muh chimps!

>> No.13353159

>>13353147
Not him, but...
>Mass race mixing
>it ends with everyone either super white or super brown
>maximum diversity

>> No.13353164

>>13353140
No it's not "only for me" you dumb monkey, human brain can't comprehend empathy for people that are not relevant to you. Do you care about a hooker that got raped and killed in the next town? Or a hobo that's probably dying of heatstroke in some gutter right now? Of course not. It's even worse when we approach bigger numbers of casualties. Oh *insert event* killed 100-1000? Poor them! Thoughts and prayers.
Don't fall into the virtue signalling of "nationalism", it only makes you look pathetic.
>Maybe for you. Some of us like looking out for those like us. This is best understood when you're in another country and you meet other countrymen from your own there, creating an invisible bond of brotherhood between similar races.
I hate my countrymen when I recognize them in other countries, they're often uncivilized and vulgar. I don't like being associated with them. This mystical bond is romanticized to the extreme by /pol larpers.
Fuck off cunt

>> No.13353168

>>13351408
Embarrassing desu

>> No.13353169

>>13353159
It's what was meant to happen from the start.
There would definitely be variations between families as well. And that's only cosmetics, not even counting genetics.

>> No.13353172

>>13353147
Also not him again, but..
>focusing on foreigners
>wanting to prioritize the underprivileged.
Then start with your own, friend. The people on your streets. Why are you bringing beggars into your house when you can't feed your own children? It's like you want to sink the whole nation into unnecessary poverty.
Local people first, foreigners last.

>> No.13353177

>Capitalism
A few live exceptionally well, most live moderately well, some barely survive, some die.

>Communism
A few live exceptionally well, some are killed by the state, the rest barely survive.

>> No.13353183

>>13353177
If you define moderately as paycheck paycheck, then sure

>> No.13353196

>>13353074
Latin American socialist states failed because of US intervention
>Vuvuzela
Capitalism also took them down, their entire economy was built on the back of oil and when the price crashed so did their economy

>> No.13353201

>>13353164
>All these psychopathic opinions
Get your head checked, friend. You make too many assumptions for me. I can feel empathy for other people thank you very much, even when they have nothing to do with me. Already you're proved wrong.
>I hate my countrymen when I recognize them in other countries, they're often uncivilized and vulgar. I don't like being associated with them. This mystical bond is romanticized to the extreme by /pol larpers.
Your problem. My country is full of problems but I still love my people. As soon as I hear the accent I can tell they're one of mine.

>> No.13353210

>>13353169
>It's what was meant to happen from the start.
So you have no real solution then?

>> No.13353215

>>13351320
>Fascism is when you have state Capitalism and are racist
You're so fucking wrong

>> No.13353236

>>13353201
>daily life is psychopathic
Delude yourself if it makes you feel better, anon, but that doesn't mean that your "feeling" for them isn't superficial. Google Dunbar's Number and Paul Slovic's works if you're interested. Truth is grim I'm afraid.

>> No.13353256

>>13353236
>Spouting "Deluded" till it makes sense to your viewpoint.
I'm sorry, friend, but I'm afraid my sypathies for others isn't superficial. Maybe it's you who has the problem. Probably is. Don't bother replying back.

>> No.13353335

>>13353256
>generally people en masse don't care about above named occurrences
>ah-ha! but you see I'm different
sure, cope

>> No.13353406

>>13353196
Latinocommunism generally failed whether or not the US intervened, and states that avoided Latinocommunism were generally better off in the long run, see Chile, Panama, Colombia to an extent. To be fair, they aren't really all that "Communist" by Orothodox Marxist standards but there's definitely an identifiable Latino mode of government that both draws on Marxism and has rather poor results.

>> No.13353407

>>13353059
People rely on each other on a societal level for everything from food to washing pavements. You are so delusional if you think your bugban friends are the only meaningful group of people in your life.

>> No.13353447

>>13353335
The theory was that people don't care. One guy (me) does.
So yes that's his whole theory down the toilet.
I repeat, please stop replying back.

>> No.13353463

>>13353447
>inb4 "generally"
Wasn't stated before. Read the comments if you have to.

>> No.13353528

>>13353210
It's not a problem in the first place.
>>13353172
You can do both.

>> No.13353547
File: 754 KB, 518x1274, thethirdway2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13353547

Both capitalism and communism suck. Third way for me!

>> No.13353637

>>13351320
Nationalism is only bad to those who want to destroy my nation. My nation promotes my interests and protects me from other nations whose interests conflict with those of my own, which includes possesion of increasingly limited resources. We live in a world of nation-states. We do not live in an episode of Star Trek™ where everyone will hold hands and sing kumbayaa when borders are eliminated. Although that would be nice we are very far from such a thing, and the course that the Globalists are trying to steer leads not to that but rather to increasing totalitarianism, where unelected bureaucrats and corporate boards living hundreds of miles away will order you around in despite of your own wishes, opinions or lifestyle.
If you live in this nation and oppose it, then your ideology has been supplied to you by another nation that wants to destroy this one.

>> No.13353650

>>13353059
You are the deluded one, comrade...

>> No.13353664
File: 12 KB, 703x483, 1556978114533.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13353664

>>13351408
Race is very real.

>> No.13353699

>>13351320
The burden of proof that free markets kill more than communism and its twin brother fascism is definitely on you. Picking an ideology that is grounded against reality will lead to some painful places. Good luck.

>> No.13353704

>>13351340
Nations are odious, but necessary. Hell, LIFE is odious! Eating is odious, killing plants and animals to survive, and keeping your family safe is odious too, since resources are limited and making sure your kids survive mean someone else's might not. This is true of humans or any other animal. Why do people stop thinking scientifically the moment humans are involved, as if suddenly the laws of evolution no longer apply to featherless bipeds?

Have you even read Darwin?

>> No.13353707

>>13353196
Operation Condor is well know in Latam.

>> No.13353728

>>13351320
>Fascism
>Racist
nigga wut?

>> No.13353733

>>13353637
THIS
/thread

>> No.13353760

>>13353637
>If you live in this nation and oppose it, then your ideology has been supplied to you by another nation that wants to destroy this one.
Or you can, you know, think for yourself.

>> No.13353795

>>13353760
Of course! But the establishment discourages that because it can often lead to going against the mainstream paradigm that we should destroy our own nation, shit in our own nest...
Cui bono?

>> No.13354646

>>13351796
Straw
>>13352699
It’s not directly about this, no. But you’re implying only whites can be egoists?
>>13352810
You’re so stridently racist you don’t even know you’re the spooked one here. People look different. Get over it.
>thoroughly BTFO
HAHA when? What was the context of this? Maybe it was an imposter, I donno.
>>13352819
What “moral words” are you referring to?
>>13352841
S P O O K E D.
>>13353149
You’re all so very confused. What is that picture even?

>>13353406
>whether or not
It did. The US is a commercial empire that seeks and destroys and/or captures its prey in order to feather the oligarchs nests. Yes, “market socialism” also fails, it always eventually tips in favor of the capitalist class. Is this all any reason to be such a bootlicker?
Any “race” can be in this capitalist in-group, you realize? This is one of the reasons some of you bootlickers are racist-nationalists
>See Chile
They’re not better off. The media shows you the well off and the local oligarchs don’t sabotage the economy, ya dolt

>>13353637
>muh nation
There’s no such thing

>>13353664
We are all humans

>>13353699
You have no clue what these words mean, much less the recent history of these subjects. Stop typing about it till you find out.

>>13353704
Life isn’t odious. Nations make them into pitiable things though
Are you a cannibal or something?

>>13353728
Fascism is to liberal capitalism as jihadism is to Islam

>> No.13354663

>>13353060
>think about the brown foreigners not yourself or your people
kill yourself

>Becoming attatched to a country and its culture is toxic
you are actually retarded

>> No.13354668

>>13353059
I like my fellow white people much more than other people and want to live in a country of them
I want to protect that

>> No.13354708

>>13354663
Those are some scary ideas there. Calm down fella.
Culture is a perceived aggregate of shared experiences of a given locality and lifetime. Usually ones youth shines brightest in one’s memory, sometimes its the half truths told about one’s national or racial founding mythology. Boomers go on about the 60s for instance. Its an amorphous thing, and to hold to it turns out to be toxic. Its the past, yet you “conservatives” and “trads” want to go back to it, as if that were a thing one could actually do. Its never happened. Metaphorically you are trying to make us all eat the shit of our previous meals.

>> No.13354746

>>13354646
communism and fascism are inextricably linked. Mussolini and Hitler were both ardent supporters of socialism before understanding that socialist fight for country, not for class, as was evident for WW1. Mussolini and Lenin wrote to each other frequently even (Lenin Collected Works, 1969, vol.23), and Lenin through these correspondences approved of what Mussolini was trying to achieve through his interpretation of socialism. These are both ideologies form the left, espoused by leaders of the left, and promoted by the left intelligentsia.

>> No.13354793

>>13354746
They both practiced state centralized capitalism.
They both slaughtered their local socialists
One was nationalist, the other internationalist in nature.
I don’t advocate either. I advocate leftism. Socialism. A functional commune based on democracy of the people. No state or money. Suck it.

>> No.13354871

>>13354746
>Mussolini and Hitler were both ardent supporters of socialism before understanding that socialist fight for country, not for class
so, they were both ardent supporters of socialism before they stopping being supporters of socialism and became fascists. very enlightening

>> No.13354890

>>13354871
A reactionary would never have supported socialism at all, the Fascists clearly believed that the socialists were right about many things but disagreed with their program in its entirety. I know this nuance is hard for someone who thinks of socialism and fascism as opposing factions in a holy war, but they share ideological roots.

>> No.13354893

>>13354793
wait, the democratic socialist movement that became communist Russia did not kill anybody? Lenin referred to his party as the democratic socialist (Montefiore, The Romanovs), same as what American progressives wish to establish in the US. As stated before, the burden of proof is on you that marx was wrong, and his ideology leads to a totalitarian state, that destroys individual rights and freedoms for the sake of a protected class (the party officials). Whenever marxist ideology is implemented in full scale, this outcome is the norm.

>> No.13354914

>>13354871
fascism is the end state of socialism, it is a society engineered for the protection of a single class of citizenry. Whether the protected class is an ethnic identity, gender identity, racial identity or (in the case of the communist) a party identity, the mechanism of control over the population is the same, and the erosion of individual rights and freedom is the same.

>> No.13354930

>>13354890
this

>> No.13354995

>>13354890
>A reactionary would never have supported socialism at all
I agree. Hitler and Mussolini never supported socialism. I wrote the other post under the assumption of an incorrect conception of socialism for the sake of making another point.

>the Fascists clearly believed that the socialists were right about many things but disagreed with their program in its entirety
They agreed that the situation is out of control and that a lot of ordinary people were getting fucked, but it was hard to not agree with that.

>I know this nuance is hard for someone who thinks of socialism and fascism as opposing factions in a holy war, but they share ideological roots.
What nuance? They only agreed on what I already mentioned, but that can hardly be called an "ideological root".

>>13354893
>Lenin referred to his party as the democratic socialist [...] same as what American progressives wish to establish in the US.
Lol, I wish. You'll mind will get blown once you discover that there's content to movements/ideas beyond their names.

>Whenever marxist ideology is implemented in full scale, this outcome is the norm.
If this retarded expression ("implementation of Marxist ideology in full scale") is to mean anything at all, then it means communist society, which only comes after the capitalist society, and can't regress back to it, just as the capitalist society can't regress to feudalism (except as a result of some crazy nuclear event or something). Hence such "implementation" hasn't taken place yet.

>>13354914
>fascism is the end state of socialism
Fascism is a form of a government of a capitalist state. Socialism is a post-capitalist society. The former can't be the "end state" of the latter.

>it is a society engineered for the protection of a single class of citizenry
Socialism is classless.

>> No.13355047

>>13354995
no such thing as capitalism, its free market. Again, whenever marxist ideology has been implemented in full scale (that is on an entire population of a country) it has ended in totalitarianism, that behaved to protect the political class at the expense of all others. This is the norm. It has happened every time. This is because Marxist ideology is flawed in that it does not account for the nature of the individual, and sees all human hierarchies as mere power struggles instead of systems of order established by merit. Price's law in effect. the term capitalism is a Marxist smeer on free markets. I am curious, can you name a society that is actually flourishing under socialist doctrine? Complete socialist doctrine? No private property, and the whole of the economy is controlled by the public (but not a totalitarian government)?

>> No.13355055

>>13354893
Your Cold War propaganda line falls on deaf ears with me. I know the truth now.

>> No.13355063

>>13354995
classless? so a central committee member is not in an elevated state vs a common collective farmer?

>> No.13355255

>>13355063
>central committee
>collective farmer
Sounds like you're thinking about a Marxist-Leninist state. You're right that it wasn't classless. And we don't even need to consider apparatchiks here, since there clearly were distinct peasant and proletarian classes.
I'm talking about a socialist society, which, again, is classless. I'm not talking about any capitalist state, no matter how much red this state has in its flag.

>>13355047
>no such thing as capitalism, its free market
Feel free to call it whatever you want.

>whenever marxist ideology has been implemented in full scale (that is on an entire population of a country)
If you were familiar with "Marxist ideology" then you would understand why it can't be "implemented in full scale" just "on a population of a country".

>in that it does not account for the nature of the individual
Another mistaken claim that could be easily avoided if only you learned the good habit of reading the primary material on a thing before proclaiming your opinions about it.

>and sees all human hierarchies as mere power struggles instead of systems of order established by merit. Price's law in effect.
No, it doesn't see human hierarchies as power struggles. It only sees class struggles as class struggles. Also, at last we learn what we're dealing with here (a Peterson babby).

>the term capitalism is a Marxist smeer on free markets.
Okay, snowflake. I will stop using the c-word if it hurts your markets so much.

>I am curious, can you name a society that is actually flourishing under socialist doctrine?
Given that globalization has happened, there is but a single society, and it's a c... a free-market one. So no, I can't.

>> No.13355405

>>13351320
Leave

>> No.13355473

>>13355255
>you would understand why it can't be "implemented in full scale" just "on a population of a country"
You're right about this, but it also means you'll never achieve your socialist society. It is impossible to coordinate a global prole revolution. Even if you manage it, how would you prevent them from falling into nationalist/tribalist division like USSR/China/Vietnam. You would need to inspire like 4-10 Jesuses worth of faith in these people.

Probably the only practical way to achieve it would be to literally conquer the entire world and deracinate every last capitalist holdout - you have your central point of control and no capitalists left to resist you

>> No.13355506

>>13352755
what's on second.

PS Stirner was against human rights too, but for entirely different reasons.
The modern right is against human rights because they are used to overwrite other laws of personal freedom (this poor family would suffer if not X, so we must do X)

>> No.13355521

>>13355473
On the contrary, the world of production is so interconnected that it's hard to imagine national borders making much of a difference once some critical mass is reached during the initial period of the revolution. The capitalists holdouts would disappear just like the feudal ones did, only it would take orders of magnitude less time.

>> No.13355632

>>13353795
no it doesn't

>> No.13356005

>>13353664
wow, a bar graph completely devoid of context, source, or anything, but the one thing that is included is "ESTIMATED". just wow.

>> No.13356198
File: 921 KB, 5657x4071, latinamerica.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13356198

>>13354646
>We are all humans

You'll be surprised

>> No.13356487

>>13356198
>another useless graph
We are all humans, even when we get it in our heads that we’re superior and start doing unspeakable things to one another in the name of the spook of “purity”

>> No.13357281

>>13356487
It must be fun to post endless bait

>> No.13357288

>>13356198
>implying other populations haven't killed each other

>> No.13357292

>>13354646
Holy shit. :3

Time to take your pants off and lay down!

>> No.13357302

I just can't enough of the fact that I've made this woman masturbate to me. And she says she's a lesbian.

I enjoy such things :D

>> No.13357401
File: 170 KB, 398x482, 1549241706524.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13357401

>>13351270
Capitalism can't kill people because capitalism is the respect for property rights - with the basis being in self ownership. Violence, except in defense, is therefore the opposite of capitalism and purely the realm of others - chiefly the religious societies - those who belief in a mystical non-existant being as the group. The group is merely a figmant of the human mind. Only individuals exist. Those who believe in the group over the individual are those who kill (progs, socialists, collectivists of all types).

>> No.13357477

>>13354646
>Fascism is to liberal capitalism as jihadism is to Islam

Islam literally has more in common with fascism than liberal capitalism.

>> No.13357876

>>13356487
either a troll or zero self-awareness, do you seriously hold that spook=moral belief I don't like/non-spook=moral belief I do like?

>> No.13357883

>>13351270
well because fascism isnt capable of hitting the numbers capitalism and communism can hit because it implodes in on itself before it can hit higher than a couple million

>> No.13357886

>>13357477
Not the comparison being made.

>>13357876
I literally called “racial purity” a spook. Are you saying that’s a moral belief?

>> No.13357888

>>13357401
property rights are also figments of the human mind you brainlet lmao what are you even saying

>> No.13357898
File: 2.03 MB, 320x240, laughing ally.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13357898

>replaces your population with 3rd world surplus labour to undermine wages and democracy
>forces you to become a neet and rely on the state
what's the matter goyim? don't like the free market™?

>> No.13357927

>>13357886
I'm not using the word moral to mean "good" as in moral versus immoral. Anything can be a moral belief, if you choose to value purity then of course racial purity could be moral to you. Your hypocrisy consists in arbitrarily labelling moral beliefs that you do not approve of "spooks" while earnestly believing that YOUR moral prejudices are God-given immutable truths that are NOT "spooks".
Here's an inverted version of what you're doing: equality, progress and humanity are spooks because I don't approve of the moral value judgments behind them. Race, hierarchy, and inequality? totally true. no spooks here

>> No.13358052

>>13353060
>countries being drained of their skilled laborers who were successful enough to leave their shithole is good
have you heard of brain drain? immigrations bad for everybody and destroys both cultures

>> No.13358130

>>13353060
>Becoming attatched to a country and its culture is toxic. Everyone should just be able to leave their country for a better one if they don't like the way things are run there, but toxic nationalism prevents this. As a free thinking and behaving individual you have no reason to be chained to the country you live in.
why tho

>> No.13358146

>>13353707
I wish they would bring it back instead of allowing everything to go to shit like they are doing now.

>> No.13358789

>>13353060
if there were no cultures, no different societies, then need to immigrate form a place to a better place would be unnecessary.

Multiculturalism is odd to me, I keep hearing this term thrown around that the need for immigrants to assimilate into the culture they choose to join (because the one they are leaving is too toxic for them to remain) will somehow allow for the toxic culture to exist without tension and in harmony to the culture the immigrant decided to move into? Without creating a pocket of hell within the culture the immigrant has moved into, since the immigrant is encouraged to continue those toxic practices that same immigrant wanted to get away from?

>> No.13358827

>>13355255
so class struggle is not a power struggle? Marx laid this out in The German Ideology.

You are doing more to deconstruct language, than to follow a line of logic. The logical conclusion of what Marx proposes is an economic and state system governed by a large totalitarian authority, that has complete sway over all aspects of life to the citizens with in said country. It does this by eliminating laws that protect the individual, and the masses of the country exist solely to provide for the top party members within the centralized government.

I offered a real critique of capitalism with Lenin's work, I offered sources to explain my position to you, and you have yet to offer even an anecdote to support any of your claims.

Your responses seem almost robotic in their critique of language vs. a critique of ideas. i have better things to do than to get into semantics with an ideologue.

You win, the socialists all win, now if only you can just prove to the world how right you are.

>> No.13358942

>>13358827
>so class struggle is not a power struggle
It is, but not every "human hierarchy" is class struggle.

>The logical conclusion of what Marx proposes is an economic and state system governed by a large totalitarian authority, that has complete sway over all aspects of life to the citizens with in said country.
On the contrary. He distinguishes three broad stages of history. In the first one, the individual is dominated by rigid social relations (pre-capitalism), in the second one, he's dominated by a real abstraction -- value (capitalism), while the third one is the stage of, quoting Marx, "free individuality, based on the universal development of the individuals".
What you're describing is a variant of the second stage, where the real abstraction controlling the individual is personified in bureaucracy that itself rules only according to the whims of national capital. What Marx was after is the third, post-capitalist stage, or socialism, where humans are no longer controlled by social forces of their own making, but they're in control themselves.

>I offered a real critique of capitalism with Lenin's work, I offered sources to explain my position to you
What? Where? I think you're confusing me with some other anon.

>Your responses seem almost robotic in their critique of language vs. a critique of ideas.
My responses? Are you not the one who compared US progressives to Lenin on a basis of nothing but a superficial similarity in terms sometimes employed by both? Are you not the one who just mindlessly spews Petersonian platitudes? Is this the deep "critique of ideas" you have in mind? That would be ridiculous, so maybe it's me that's confusing you with someone else.

>> No.13358975

>>13358942
You win

Class struggles have nothing to do with power

Marx never said to create a totalitarian state

Marx never said to create Fascism

Now just get the next generation to forget about what happens when Marxist ideology is put into effect, and we will finally have that classless utopia we were promised.

YOU WIN!!!!!!!

>> No.13359119

Capitalism is by far the best system mankind has ever had.

It blows my mind that there are retards who still subscribe to socialism.

>> No.13359217

>>13358975
>Class struggles have nothing to do with power
Are you baiting? I literally responded "it is" to "so class struggle is not a power struggle".

>[the rest of the post]
Oh, you are. Okay then.

>>13359119
>Capitalism is by far the best system mankind has ever had.
Not even socialists deny that you moron.

>> No.13359243

>>13351320
Great post. Way to overlook the nuances of class collaboration and economic patrimony in contrast with public ownership and command economies

>> No.13359275

>>13359119
Ass

>> No.13359284

>>13359243
It wouldn’t fit in the tweet, daddy

>> No.13359334

>>13357927
>I'm not using the word moral to mean "good" as in moral versus immoral. Anything can be a
Didn’t imply.
>Your hypocrisy
404 Not found
>Here’s an inverted strawman
Racial purity is a spook. Say it out loud to yourself in the mirror.

>> No.13359336

>>13358942
Listen friend, I think we are talking over each other, I agree Marx was a prominent thinker, and that his solutions are ideal to the problem of human existence as he understood it. My critique of Marx is that he did not have the understanding of human history, physiology, evolution, and psychiatry that we have at present, and therefore his critique is wrong for those reasons. He could not understand what he did not know. When the very beings with which Marx did not completely understand are given his words by which to execute his idea of utopia, then those beings are acting in a more real nature regardless of the purity of the ideas, and create a dystopia. The same as what happens when the Bible is used for power plays, or the
Hadith, or any other religious ideology. Fundamentally Marx proposed a system by which an entire ideology is needed to support it. It is not his fault, he did not state that that is necessary, but it is what happens. The real question is why that happens.

>> No.13359357

>>13359336
Well, if we weren't speaking past each other then now we are, and you started it with this empty little rant.

>> No.13359391
File: 110 KB, 684x418, economist-1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13359391

Capitalism is just a tool, no better than the men who use it. It is silly to reduce the complexity of our system of productive enterprise to just one component, money. Using such an oversimplified view no wonder those using a Marxist paradigm always fuck up when they try to apply it to the real world of real humans...

>> No.13359437
File: 139 KB, 1024x871, che mussolini race-1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13359437

>>13359334
Glad to know you agree with Mussolini! That whole race thing is part of what keeps me from NatSoc, which is a pale imitation of Fascism anyway...

>> No.13359442

>>13351340
Some people also disagree with this assessment.

What makes them wrong and you right?

>> No.13359452

>>13351270
True, but they hate the fact, and will get all triggered...

>> No.13359460

>>13353528
>You can do both

Tell that to all of the white, American homeless people I have to pass on my way into work every day.

>> No.13359474

>>13351320
>>13351340
back to discord, tranny

>> No.13359475

>>13356487
>B-But murdering savages are people too, guys!
I don't agree. Hang them.

>> No.13359490

>>13359475
Ye, hang white nationalists cuz they’re not people
Sure.

>> No.13359594
File: 1.16 MB, 1112x900, gungal.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13359594

>>13359391
Nonsense.
If anything, capitalists are the tools of capitalism. Since, for them to remain profitable and growing, they shape the world around them by following the choreography and logic dictated by our economic system, and as such execute the figurative "will" of the system.
The existence and inner workings of private property beyond personal property, of governing organizations which keep book and by threat of force maintain the relationship of this property, of wage labour, of production for exchange rather than use, and of competitive markets, do not rely on individual users of this "tool". Their existence --the existence of capitalism-- declares the conditions and the framing under and within which the individual capitalists and corporations must play their games. Certainly, these rules and conditions can be buckled and crooked by influencers that have grown powerful enough to subvert the system. Such a situation is however the result, the endgame, rather than the game itself.

It is correct of you to state that it would be silly to reduce the complexity of our system to merely money. Fortunately Marxists do not engage in such foolishness, which should be patently obvious to even the most casual of scholars on the topic.

>> No.13359658

>>13359391
Because as we know, all Marx ever wrote on capitalism was, (here I go, pasting the three volumes of Capital into a single 4chan post like a madman): "it's just money lmao".

>> No.13359672

>>13359658
I forgot to cite it properly. So, the first volume of Capital consists of the words "it is", the second one -- " just money" (you can clearly see Engels' touch here), and the third -- "lmao" (that's my favourite one).

>> No.13359681

>>13359475
ikr, how can anyone consider the us armed forces, the largest terrorist group in the world, human?

>> No.13359686

>>13351270
Fascism is capitalism you retard. Once and for all will you stupid fucks understand? Bolshevism is also capitalism.

>> No.13359801
File: 19 KB, 400x300, strawman.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13359801

>>13359334
Strawman. Very few ethnonationalists have any illusions as to racial 'purity'. Yet it is inctrovertible that ethnicity exists, and it is completely reasonable to consider a cluster of closely related ethnicities to be a 'race'. Biological divergence is not merely skin deep, and it is evident that there are many sub-species of humanity on this planet... Of course, taxonomical consistency goes out the window when we're looking at humans... How convenient.

Furthermore, ubiquitous race-mixing does not = maximum diversity. Some alleles are dominant and some recessive, so widespread and rapid (historically speaking) miscegenation will lead to far less genetic diversity -- especially where many dominant alleles are involved (as in Africans). There are other factors like outbreeding depression to consider as well. You are the enemy of true diversity, please understand that.

>> No.13359885
File: 17 KB, 474x347, DO NOT TALK TO BUTTERFAGGOT.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13359885

What the fuck are you faggots doing? Are you stupid?

>> No.13359939
File: 155 KB, 634x889, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13359939

>>13359885
What tripfag? Why wouldn't you have poster names hidden?

>> No.13360152

>>13359284
It doesn't fit with reality. Go back to the Greeks, perhaps your education can still be salvaged.

>> No.13360159

>>13359686
lmao. What the fuck is Capitalism then?

>> No.13360174

>>13359686
>autarky is capitalism

>> No.13360263

>>13359885
You're right of course anon, I apologize.

>> No.13360347
File: 59 KB, 1280x720, Top Lass here is the pinnacle of the potency of method. Don't worship her, she aint a cult, but DO revere her.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13360347

It is the basic, metaphysical fact of man’s nature—the connection between his survival and his use of reason—that capitalism recognizes and protects.
In a capitalist society, all human relationships are voluntary. Men are free to cooperate or not, to deal with one another or not, as their own individual judgments, convictions, and interests dictate. They can deal with one another only in terms of and by means of reason, i.e., by means of discussion, persuasion, and contractual agreement, by voluntary choice to mutual benefit. The right to agree with others is not a problem in any society; it is the right to disagree that is crucial. It is the institution of private property that protects and implements the right to disagree—and thus keeps the road open to man’s most valuable attribute (valuable personally, socially, and objectively): the creative mind.

>> No.13360404
File: 57 KB, 2000x509, 2000px-Ama-gi.svg.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13360404

>>13351267 (OP)
>>13351270
>stage 4 lung cancer is better than an inoperable brain tumor or EBOLA
I hear this argument all the time from the left as well as from the right. Do try to aim for something higher, please.

>> No.13360502

>>13360159
Generalized commodity production; generalized antagonistic relation between wage labour and capital.

>> No.13360540

>>13351267
Does he rub his fists in his eyes for a few moments before taking his thumbnail pictures, like an emo Bebo girl?

>> No.13360879

>>13360404
nah it's too late. humanity is screwed. they are arguing about ancient political models instead of trying to create something new

>> No.13360891

>>13360879
>create something new
You’re a brainlet and that’s why positive association words like “new” effect you do deeply.

>> No.13360938

>>13360879
I've posted threads twice on /pol/ to get people to lay out new ideas to deal with the pressing issues of the 21st century - climate change, over population, the coming of AI, income inequality and the like. I got nothing. Nada. And I don't just mean "I got nothing but anti-Semitic drivel" I mean I got literally no replies.

>they are arguing about ancient political models instead of trying to create something new

Honestly it's just /pol/, they have the collective IQ of a chestnut.

>> No.13361073

>>13357898
>produce the best mathematics
>allow me to not work
wtf i love jews now

>> No.13361116

>>13353406
>Whether or not

Please source the alternate reality where the US doesn't break Latin american economies every single time. Or are you just larping?

>> No.13361131

>>13353177
Is this bait? Seems that your perspective on capitalism/communism comes straight out of an american children's textbook.

>> No.13361706

>>13360938
>climate change
>overpopulation
>income inequality
"Ideas" won't ever solve those problems, except maybe in your head, but the communist movement will.
>From the so-called law of the well-planned "proportional" development of the national economy we know that the social product should grow at furious speed. We don't speak Russian, but assume that thereby it is to be understood: plans for the "uninterrupted growth of production," that is analogous to the law of population growth or compound interest. We therefore propose the following correct denotation: planning of growth in geometric progression. The "curve" drawn right, we would write up the following law with the little brains we have: socialism starts where this curve breaks down.

>the coming of AI
Which issue with this exactly? Both the job loss problem and the sci-fi rogue AI problem are more solvable under socialism. The former for very obvious reasons, the latter because it's more likely for one of the profit-driven private companies or one of the militarist state governments that deal with AI to seriously fuck something up that it is for an entire co-operative society.

>> No.13361730

>>13361131
More like an honest interpretation based off what both those systems have looked like.

>> No.13361735

>>13360938
>over population
Only rich people are scared of this because their lifestyles are the only ones threatened. Your whole post says nothing in many words in typical lefty fashion.

>> No.13362090
File: 273 KB, 793x794, give me liberty.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13362090

>>13361706
>"Ideas" won't ever solve those problems, except maybe in your head, but the communist movement will.
>>13361735
>Your whole post says nothing in many words in typical lefty fashion.

Have se - no wait, you know what? Both of you get in the "shower" instead.

>> No.13362612

>>13361730
You mean an honest interpretation based of only capitalism and state capitalism.

>> No.13362808

>>13351267
Honestly I think we are in the final stages of Capitalism. In 50 years too many menial jobs will be automated. Will 50% of people just depend on state benefits? I think so. Most people can't become an engineer and there really aren't enough engineering jobs. We may have to revert back to pre-industrial agrarian society.

>> No.13362819

>>13362808
Not really. It’s stupid to think that rich and powerful, ever threatened by an increasing mass of poor, would want to keep the consumer around as uses for them dwindle. Expect population culling along with automation, not UBI. That’s why the fight against emissions has stopped, they see global warming as a tool for population reduction, kind of funny considering all the people who want a population reduction to save the environment.

>> No.13362840

>>13351267
Can be, yes. Is, no.
Nice qualifier

>> No.13362923

>>13362808
>In 50 years too many menial jobs will be automated.
Looking at the leap from horse-and-cart to moon landing that happened between 1900 and 1960, it was reasonable to expect some really amazing things from 2020. Yet here we are still uzing zippers, fiddling with military hardware repurposed for civilian use and squabbling over dwindling resources that are killing us anyway.

Just a few years ago we finished sequencing the human genome, there was no great fanfare or blast of news about it. This is a body of knowledge with a huge time-lock device on it, intelligent critters have to get a lot of organization and discipline happening before they can open it up.

But it really looks like people are going to be happy talking about stupid backwards tribal bullshit for as long as possible, while the rich quietly sequester themselves from the rest of the world. There was an ad in the 80s showing a factory foreman supervising his offices, docks and manufacturing floors by camera and phone, from a sunny balcony somewhere far away. You bet that shit got shut down, it could have started a revolution, because that guy wants you to be born in your parent's workstation, go to school in the company technical college, eat in the commissary and die in the company hospital without ever understanding that you've been owned every minute of the way. It's not that way now, but that's the plan, they risk getting slaughtered if people see it happening.

>> No.13362934
File: 227 KB, 1761x770, bf1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13362934

>>13351270
TAKE THE FASH PILL TODAY

>> No.13362939

>>13359686
>corporatism is capitalism
This is your brain on communism

>> No.13362949

>>13360502
>retarded commie thinks anything that isnt communism is capitalism
Capitalism didnt even exist prior to the 16th century

>> No.13362995

>>13362612
“It hasn’t been tried!!!”

>> No.13363086

>>13362995
It was communism McCarthy told me.

>> No.13363091

>>13363086
Oh so they didn’t call themselves communists? Tell me more

>> No.13363104

>>13363086
>tfw you call yourself communist
>you try to implement communism
>doesnt work so you make some changes
>now you're not a communist and communism was literally never tried

>> No.13363105

>>13362949
Absolutely not. First, capitalism is 13th century. Secondly, before, there was feudalism. However, since feudalism died, there is indeed only capitalism. USSR didn't abolish proletariat. I don't see how it could have been communism.
If you want to see tried communism recently, it's revolutionary Catalonia (1936).

>> No.13363121

>>13363104
It was tried in Catalonia in 1936. However, for retards like you, when it is tried and is a success, it doesn't count (Catalonia), and if it is a failure, it is communism.
You know, keep arguing like this, and people are gonna see you are full of shit, and will take a real interest in Marx.

>> No.13363129

>>13362808
capitalisms just getting started. its wishful thinking this is actually "late stage" capitalism. it can and will get so much worse

>> No.13363141

>>13363105
Wrong. Capitalism originated from the Netherlands. Even before Feudalism there was private ownership, and yet it was not capitalism. Capitalism is a societal attitude where the pursuit of capital rules. Commies dont get to redefine shit.

>> No.13363147

>>13363121
>is a success
Where is it?

>> No.13363154

>>13363141
According to some historians, the modern capitalist system has its origin in the "crisis of the fourteenth century", a conflict between the land-owning aristocracy and the agricultural producers, or serfs.

>> No.13363165

>>13363147
Keep being retard. I don't care.

>> No.13363167

>>13363121
>You know, keep arguing like this, and people are gonna see you are full of shit, and will take a real interest in Marx.
I think that ship sailed about 50 years ago buddy LOL
The only people who still pretend that communism is anything other than a fantasy are marginalised NEETs and weirdos on the internet

>> No.13363179

>>13362819
That is probably true. I like to wishfully think that those of us that live in Democratic societies will be spared. I hope the rich move to mars and let the world reset itself.

>> No.13363183

>>13363165
You said it was a success so I'm asking you why it was a success
It didnt even last 5 years

>> No.13363188

>>13363179
Yeah that’s very wishful thinking bud, we in democratic countries are already in the belly of the beast.

>> No.13363192

>>13363165
Lmao I thought you were trying to convince people?

>> No.13363209
File: 1.18 MB, 4288x3216, e1119582b1c8b490bc5fb69704a41316.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13363209

You'll fight it, you'll hate it, you'll tell yourself its wrong, but then one day you'll see the light, and you'll just understand:
Fascism is the future.

>> No.13363248

>>13362923
Good post.

>> No.13363269

>>13362923
Except for the 'backwards tribal bullshit' part. I'm sorry, but we aren't transhumans and ethnicity is still a consequential thing. With the kind of technology you admit is underutilized, humanity can easily cooperate on a global scale without needing to demographically invade eachother's nations.

It's odd that you can be quite insightful yet so naive simultaneously.

>> No.13363290

>>13362923
Why are you commies so fucking obsessed with this authority complex? Did your father beat you or something?
>waah people have more than me FUCK THEM THEY DESERVE DEATH
Legitimate mental illness
Look, I dislike the ultra rich as much as anybody, I think this current system we have in the west is extremely self destructive, but I just dont understand how you can do a complete 180 and go to the other extreme of self destructive retardedness. We need moderation, direction, and simplification, not this constant radical change between extremes that has been going on for the past 300 years.
Radical communistsm and anarchists are all just as bad as the globalist capitalist elites.

>> No.13363295

>>13363269
Even better post.

>> No.13363318

>>13363209
The 1930s are never coming back for you.

>> No.13363320

>>13363269
Where did he say anything about ethnicity? He could have been talking about sectarianism, gender, political beliefs, etc. And he is not wrong in that assumption. For example, the left-right dichotomy is heavily manufactured by the media and its pundits because they have to shill books and articles in order to make money. We don't pay attention to the issues dangled right above our heads due to the ones dangled in front of our eyes.

>> No.13363325

>>13363318
You'll be lucky to live to 30 yourself, with all that damage you've done to yourself on hormone treatment

>> No.13363361
File: 205 KB, 1080x1697, B3A89388-4117-4B25-A953-D421916288CA.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13363361

>>13363325
I’m 46. I’m a lesbian, a woman. My girlfriend has hips to waist ratio like these women, except she’s shorter. And the good press the nationalist movements are enjoying are to hide the fact that there’s a growing socialist resurgence around the world. Shits gonna hit the fan and you will be sitting it out because your Monsantos induced autism will be keeping you glued to the screen

>> No.13363375

>>13363361
>i'm a woman!!
>i'm a lesbian!!
Sure you are Tranny.
>good press the nationalist movements are enjoying
>good press
>about nationalism
Are you completely and utterly demented?
>growing socialist resurgence
HAHAHAHAHAHA

>> No.13363398 [DELETED] 
File: 94 KB, 1289x287, 1558666209262.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13363398

>>13363361
Mentally ill is what you are

>> No.13363449

Is there anything dunnier funnie than 21st century "socialists" who think they're "against the system"?
The system supports your views completely you dumb cucks

>> No.13363484

>>13363375
The neoliberals run slops like Clinton or Macron or take their chances with Trump and Le Pen.
Cops protects fascists protesters, but film and trail leftists. They may jail the white supremacists after they’ve killed someone, but they jail leftists for breaking windows
>a growing resurgence that I don’t know about wahahahah
Fine with me

>> No.13363492

>>13363449
Uh, honey, no.
The “socialists” you’re thinking of are social-democrats, or progressives in the US. They’re not actual socialists. Yet.

>> No.13363504

>>13363484
Sounds like the nationalists are the one on the rise then? Is this some sort of twisted lefty thinking that winning means being the underdog?

>>13363492
>lefties are splintering at the realization of what retards they all are
>thinking this is a strength

The time of the left has come and passed. You had a good 50 years of fucking shit up but it’s over now.

>> No.13363514

>>13363504
>The time of the left has come and
When was that?
Oh. You probably mean the USSR or some shit. Heheh. Okay, dude.

>> No.13363519

>>13363484
>>13363492
>>13363514
Stop posting you tranny freak I'm not going to read anything you type

>> No.13363532

>>13363484
>Cops protects fascists protesters, but film and trail leftists. They may jail the white supremacists after they’ve killed someone, but they jail leftists for breaking windows
You are insane
Its literally the EXACT opposite
What leftists have FBI hit squads out to kill them? What a fucking joke.

>> No.13363540

>>13363484
Nice delusional fantasy world you live in
Imagine unironically thinking you're fighting the power, when literally every institution is full of socialists and leftists and even vaguely right wing liberals are demonised as nazis

>> No.13363704
File: 121 KB, 801x569, 24D2CD76-F7AF-4A58-8A89-C2D03DA6B8AE.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13363704

>>13363540
>socialism is when the government does stuff

>> No.13363739

>>13351267
All modes of production and distribution are arbitrary and meaningless when viewed from outside. You are just another sphere to me

>> No.13363837

>>13363704
Thats not what I said you delusional fucking retard
But it is a fact that every institution is dominated by self proclaimed socialists

>> No.13363855

>>13363837
>thas not what I said. Here let me repeat it

>> No.13363956

>>13363855
You'd think you would be more intelligent with all that time spent reading books.

>> No.13363973

>>13363514
Lefties have been spewing their bullshit since the late 40’s. Today they are the old and outdated politicians they once criticized. You missed the boat you stupid narcissist.

>> No.13364411

>>13363361
Dilate

>> No.13364620

>>13362949
I don't think that. How much of an imbecile do you have to be to read that into my post? Do you think there was generalized commodity production in the 13th century? Or generalized wage-labour–capital relation?

>>13363141
>Capitalism is a societal attitude where the pursuit of capital rules.
"Attitude", top lel. If you want to be an idealist then go ahead, but try doing it in a less retarded way.

>>13363104
This but unironically. Although it wasn't completely over before certain people made "some changes" (they did a complete 180 with regards to strategy act
ually).

>> No.13364666

>>13353140
Nationalism was invented during renisance to justify imperialism.
>>13358975
Nice shizo post.

>> No.13365462

>>13351270
>legalism didn't kill that many people in the grand scheme of things
Fascism burned out from autistic screeching across Europe so fast it's impossible to know. Plus, unlike Russia, China and (Meiji) Japan, it didn't inherit famines from a pre-revolution society and then have more from rapid adoption of a new distribution system. It was targeted genocide, and they didn't adopt countries that were well behind technologically, they inherited Germany.

>> No.13365477

>>13365462
Fascism was forcibly stamped out by exterior forces

>> No.13365670

Guys, what's the best political and economic positions for someone who simply wishes for kindness and compassion to be the currencies of society, and everyone to have equal rights and all their general needs satisfied? I want everyone to be happy and healthy, and nobody to be hurting and impoverished. I have never personally cared much for having a high income, I just want everyone around me to be well and for all of us to help eachother above all else. I'm also a very spiritual person and believe the Divine must be honored in every aspect of society, that every building should rival the inside of a cathedral, in terms of Beauty. I think that sexuality should be suppressed, with pre-marital abstinence culturally enforced. People should be taught spirituality in school, with meditation and lessons on ethics a mandatory component of instruction. Introspection should similarly be turned into a subject, with students being able to lesrn about their internal nature through studying it, and this done for the sake of alleviating their suffering and helping them lead better lives. The militaries of the world need to be completely demolished - violence should never be used, in any form, on anyone. Capital punishment must become extinct - anyone who commits a heinous crime is simply given a position of labor for the rest of their life, thus providing society with a source of free, perpetual production. Nobody is to be physically harmed.

I have always been a very sensitive person, from childhood on. Seeing ir hearing about negative things has a very bad effect on my psyche. More than with most people. Reading this thread, and seeing things like "human rights" be treated as irrelevant, is an example of something that made me sad. Why would you ever say that? You have to be kind to everyone. How can you ever hurt another person? Why would you ever do such a thing?

I want "personal enlightenment" to be the collective goal of the society, with every single individual expected to reach a higher state of consciousness, and every sector of society structured around achieving this.

I want a "philosopher-king", who is himself spiritually enlightened, to rule the society, except instead of doing so from a palace, as a royal, he leads an ascetic lifestyle, having transcended the need for wealth. (1/2)

>> No.13365683

>>13365670
I want the members of government to wear robes, and for kindness to be omnipresent during their discourses. Think about how chaotic today's politics are - you can see the bloodthirst in everyone's eyes, wishing for nothing more than to physically eliminate their opponent. This is found at the level of politicians, or their civilian followers. And it's unacceptable to me. Now picture instead, two different parties entering a room, where they will do discourse. Imagine them wearing something akin to Buddhist robes, and all having meditated in a room together for 30 minutes prior to their discussion. And imagine them having that discussion, without ever flying into rage, and always extending compassion to the other party.

Basically, I want a theocratic spiritual-monarchy centered around the enlightenment of every individual in society, and an economic system whereby everyone had their needs met and the emphasis was not on personal resources, but the assistance of others. And kindness was always to be extended to others, regardless of one's differences to them.

Are there are any extant systems of politics and economics which approximate my views here? Thank you. (2/2)

>> No.13365784

>>13365670
>Guys, what's the best political and economic positions for someone who simply wishes for kindness and compassion to be the currencies of society, and everyone to have equal rights and all their general needs satisfied?
If you're looking for a hobby then why not find a music genre or a sports team instead of "political and economic positions"? What you wish for is completely irrelevant in the real world, or, as the philosopher put it, "facts don't care about your feelings". Write a novel or something.

>> No.13365816

>>13365784
Ben Shapiro is not a philosopher, but other than you're right - desiring the well-being of all members of society has "no place in the real world" - but violence, poverty, war and greed deserve to be permanent fixtures of our civilization.

>> No.13366471

What a good thread, OP! I'm sure your mother is so proud that her son is shitposting on /lit/, trying to be cool with the girls, being a BASED socialist. You must be a lady magnet, sonny. please kys

>> No.13366487

>>13366471
holy batman yikers, consider securing some sex for yourself

>> No.13366670
File: 141 KB, 717x880, GTFO.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13366670

>>13366487
>yikers

>> No.13366980

>>13363290
Not OP, but why aren't you obsessed with it? Do you not care about freedom? Do you not care about knowing what's your place in society? Are you content with the illusion that you are free while you get assfucked by your jew overlords? That's pretty KEKY

>> No.13367627

>>13364620
>when you quote me 3 times and both agree and disagree with me
based?

>> No.13367661

>>13366980
>Not OP, but why aren't you obsessed with it? Do you not care about freedom?
First, freedom is a meaningless buzzword. We have always had "freedom" just to a difference of degree. Anarchist's version of "freedom" is a literal fantasty. Freedom is the freedom to not freedom from.
>Do you not care about knowing what's your place in society?
I know my place in society and I'm okay with that
>Are you content with the illusion that you are free while you get assfucked by your jew overlords?
I am free, relatively. In fact if I had my say I would make us less free, relatively. A regimented ordely lifestyle is better than being allowed to do whatever, people tend to be too weak to control their own lives so they need a state to guide them. If our society promoted health, fitness, faithfulness, religious principles, and enforced it, we'd be doing so much better. Instead the modern state promotes mcdonalds, hiphop culture, and pornos. Its not the tool thats broken its the people using it. The government just needs to be replaced with something better and I remain optimistic it will. History goes through these cycles of dialectics.

>> No.13367905

This thread was moved to >>>/pol/217555902