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2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

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13313105 No.13313105 [Reply] [Original]

Can mods stop deleting posts by /ourschizo/, please?
He names actual /lit/ authors and usually sparks discussions on /lit/ topics and his unorthodox angles are actually insightful and helpful in understanding the topic(s) at hand.

>> No.13313110

Not only that, several posts are missing on warosu as well. What the fuck is going on?

>> No.13313113

>>13313105
So this guy is John C. Wright, right?

>> No.13313117

this board is dead, lmao, do they really delete his posts? probably one of the only worthwhile content left on here

I was just stopping by to see if /lit/ had resurected. It has not. Just leave this place, you're not here forever, that's bullshit. Leave, this place is beyond pathetic now. I quit 6months ago with the influx of braindead brainwashed brainlet zoomers. been feeling better ever sonce

>> No.13313118

>>13313105
Jannies are the scum of the earth.

>> No.13313119

>>13313117
i should take this advice desu. idk why i don't

>> No.13313122

>>13313110
YOU ARENT SUPPOSED TO KNOW.
STOP ASKING QUESTIONS.

>> No.13313153

>>13313117
There was Girardfag(Thiel) too, what happened to acceleration general?

>> No.13313433
File: 1.28 MB, 1005x942, 1560762095550.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13313433

>>13313110
That is actually really fucking fishy.

>> No.13313456

>>13313117
>I quit 6months ago
>still came back "just in case"

>> No.13313478

>>13313105
I get nothing out of the nonsense Shizo posts. But I agree that his posts are more than sufficiently /lit/

>> No.13313538

>>13313478
the tranny/lgbbqkthxbai crew on here HATE any discussion that isn't pro-marxist or anti-christian/anti-Trump.
schizo-posting falls outside the realm of what they want for this forum.
the absolute GARBAGE they allow to stay up on the list, while deleting threads that are having legit (even if obscure) debates about literary and metaphysical ideas... it's proof that i'm right.

>> No.13313547

>>13313433
>>13313122
Whoops. Wasn't trying to imply that.

>> No.13313579

>>13313105
I fucking hate these kind of people who pretend to have their brain fried and thinking that it finally provided them with some kind of profound insight when it's just nonsense, Land as a meme was a big mistake. At least Girardfag or that dragon guy were more less tryhard than him.

>> No.13313602

The schizo was basically saying there are creatures who live outside space time and that land and the landians want you to think that the only thing we can do is accelerate the "eschaton" engine. But there is another choice. Something about infinite love through reversal of the "engine" instead of death or something

>> No.13313611

>>13313602
there seemed to be disagreement in the debate about whether the Outside is good or evil, and whether the Light (i.e. physical reality) is good or evil.

>> No.13313625

FUCK THE JANNIES

>> No.13313917

>>13313105
Jannies have a clear agenda and don't want certain content on this board. It isn't just the schizo threads, they continuously delete threads like that while leaving up fetish trash, twittercap threads, etc.

>> No.13313934

>>13313538
You absolutely are, /lit/ is compromised, these fucking faggots have infiltrated everything, tranny shit, pedo shit, rupi kaur threads, frogposting, etc. is fine but obscure metaphysics are a no no. There was no rule that thread broke except "not likely to interest estrogenized lumps of dogshit".

I hate /lit/ fucking jannies, fuck off to your cunts you've turned the entire internet into your faggot playground leave us in peace

>> No.13313951

>>13313113
JCW writes a ton of bullshit on his blog, and schizoposter doesn't sound like him at all.

>> No.13313952

>>13313602
So basically Catholicism.

>> No.13313959

>>13313105
Mods frequently delete good, on-topic threads while letting low-effort bait/shitposts/tired memes alone. It's an issue on /k/ and even /pol/, I assume it is elsewhere too.

>> No.13313973

>>13313105
It's not like there's no countermeasure to this, archive it to pdf, keep it updated when schizoposter shows up and keep posting it until.

>> No.13313992

>>13313602
Yeah the question is whether what's "outside" the universe is just more of the same (i.e. entropic, decaying) or some sort of unlimited energy state. The answer is: we don't know, and as a result anything that allows us to "escape" to the Outside tempts at the same time to double down on preservation in the face of entropy -- of course, if the Outside is an unlimited energy state, then folding the entire universe into an energy source for use there is meaningless -- think of CS Lewis' Great Divorce, where Hell is portrayed as being infinitesimally _small_.

In between hundreds of pages of genetically engineered anime foxmaidens, Yosemite Sam LARPing, and admittedly pretty good pulp action scenes, Wright painstakingly portrays how even recruiting every scrap of matter in the universe into a council of seraphic omega-intellects isn't enough to make a simple choice on which way to flip the bit on whether to "surrender" to the Outside or hunker down against it.

>> No.13313995

>>13313611
Maybe the problem is choice. Human freedom. Truth is strong, but the implementation is good as the people sculpting their principles into the matter.

>> No.13314046

>>13313992
Can we continue the discussion from the thread here? I think it's interesting how Gnostic his universe ended up sounding, despite his Wright's hardcore Catholicism.

Great summary though. That is it: whether to let go and let angels fly us home, or hunker down. The Malthusians are right if the Ulteriors are evil, 100℅ and yet Rania is also right and makes a sort of Kierkegaardian point: even if their finitarian game logic is correct, there is still something intrinsically more noble about acting in accordance with an infinitarian logic, and that dignity and goodness has to come from SOMEWHERE

>> No.13314056

>>13313538
>>13313934
>>13313917
Maybe we just need to start occasionally throwing in a "trannies are awesome, i just start hrt teehee" post in good threads so they don't get deleted.

>> No.13314064

>>13313117
This, people say "/lit/ has always been bad!" but no, never as shit as it is now
This board is filled with zoomer catholics and retards
even 2016 /lit/ was better than this

>> No.13314097

Basically, our dialectic is about whether the universe is absolutely material or there is a compassionate and loving beyond. Xenos and Christians can get along well. They just have to enter into a synthetic dialogue.

>> No.13314141

>>13314097
Do you really believe that? They hate Christianity.

>> No.13314260

>>13314046
Wright is devout and I'm sure he's pretty orthodox, but he's obviously not afraid to speculate either.

This idea of an infinite paradise outside the universe predates his conversion and baptism. There's a somewhat awkward scene in one of the Golden Age books about the protagonist riding a rocket to the outer boundary of a simulated Ptolemaic universe and literally hacking his way through with a pickaxe -- and he finds an endless Elysium on the other side. The civilization portrayed in those books is also concerned about the long-term prospects of "immortal" beings in an entropic universe as well.

Regarding Wright's Catholicism, I suspect he would put the message of the Eschaton books something like this: fundamental metaphysical problems are intractable to intellect, and (more speculatively) it's somehow important that the Final Question of surrender/salvation or resistance/damnation always appears exactly unsolvable no matter which way you look at it. BUT ultimately, things will "just work out" (via divine intervention as non-obvious as it is efficacious) in favor of the infinitarian/salvific/paradisaical -- because it's true.

>> No.13314296

>>13314260
I'm reminded of how Zizek interprets the function of the Hegelian monarch, he serves a function to the state analogous to the function Ximen and Montrose's duel serves for the Seraphim: as a Gordian knot cutter, a way of condensing all these debates and deliberations into a final "yes" or "no" determined by another, more "arbitrary" plane: the monarch as the subject in excess of the rational structure of the state. So yes, you are correct in your interpretation.


I suppose I should read The Golden Age next? Seems like Wright is to sci-fi what Banker is to fantasy: men punching way above their weight class who write genre fiction.

>> No.13314313

>>13314141

Of course they hate each other. They do it to each other. On the one hand, Christians see in the xenos the avatars of the antichrist, like a smoke that takes funny forms, announcing the arrival of the long-awaited ultimate and absolute evil that fills the folkloric tales of the twentieth and nineteenth centuries.

For Christians, the Xenos are a bunch of heretical brats who play with Kabbalistic diagrams as if they were in front of a board game.

But there is something that christians need to look at. While there are transhuman fudamentalists who want to abolish life in favor of the decanted intelligence of human warmth, we are all, as a species, facing the design of an architect we identify as Abraham's God, in principle, always benign and benevolent, a loving father who cares for each one of us. So how is this sweet and good being responsible for the indifference of an indifferent and hostile universe? There are other xenos that are born of conservative fundamentalist Christianity itself that glimpse the natural abyss and want to confront it, in favor of a favorable timeline for the human condition that has already suffered too much.

There are demons and rakashas, yes, but there are also asuras and devas, the world is not divided between Lawful Good and Chaotic Evil. This model only serves those who want to keep the advantage they have.

Keep your senses sharpened.

>> No.13314322

>>13314141
No, g/acc only loves.

>> No.13314328

>>13313105

i like his posts and havent seen one in about a month

>> No.13314343

>>13314313
But it just seems like xenos take the Christian's denial of the natural abyss as axiomatic. It isn't a bug, it's a feature, an indifferent, silent void is the only thing that can be the condition of radical love, it is not an argument against it... Confronted by that void, why relinquish yourself to it? Why try to glimpse in it the monsters of your childhood?


That said, sure, the battle lines aren't as clearly drawn as the Malthusian/Amaltheans, but what I see from xenos is a pathology and not a soteriology.

>> No.13314371

>>13314296
Ximen and Montrose are together basically a sort of divining rod for use by the cosmic intellects when they realize that intelligence will avail them nothing, having computationally exhausted the thought-output of the entire universe without coming to a conclusion. I doubt Wright would put it that way though, any more than the examples of the saints are "divination" about the nature of the universe.

>I suppose I should read The Golden Age next?
If you liked the Eschaton books you should 100% read it. As novels, they're much more tightly plotted and I would and do recommend them without reservation as modern SF classics to people who would hate the Eschaton series. Even that aside, they were written by a man on the brink of conversion, and it is interesting to see hints of both what pulled him across the line and what he brought with him.

>> No.13314388

>>13314371
I think it was you who said there isn't anyone out there doing it better right now. I enjoy your takes on this series and would gladly read more.

>> No.13314401

>>13314313
The Abrahamic God is more like "the Everything" personified as an indivigual rather than being an indivigual in and of itself. To say God is innately Good is just a way to say universal optimism, why declare the everything bad? there is no other relative point to campare it to? so in the Abrahammic mind why not set the default of the everything as good since we have power over that as the perceivers.

In facts I personaly prefer a monotheistic veiw of the supernatural, that is to say things that cannot be explained through pure statistics and natural law, since there is noway to quantify the individuality of supernatural occurrences. since the oneness or multipleness of the unknown is by definition is unknown, we should designate it by a single x factor, an unknown factor. therefor we group the greater whole of the unknown as one thing since speration is impossible to determine.

>> No.13314430

>>13314141
The Catholic Church already has a stance on alien contact

>> No.13314444

>>13313538
Yeah its not like half the threads and suggestions are centered around the bible you moron

>> No.13314456

>>13314444
Quads of Truth. /Lit/ is a Christian board.

>> No.13314466

>>13314371
What personally do you think of Wright's conversion experience?

>> No.13314468

Outside of the range, there lies no thing. What is that no-thing? Multiplicity is present, of course, in every perception. Unity is prior observation, multiplicity is posterior perception, and occasion seeks to recombine these two in the event of Outside injunction (fold in the wings of the soul to protect the spirit). This was short, but I'm still mulling a few things over.

>> No.13314474

>>13314444
To be fair the Bible is a pretty important piece of literature, but I do agree the religious element does sometimes make it hard to discuss in a purely literary lense without fundies coming out of the woodwork

>> No.13314504

>>13313538
>>13313934
Why are you ignoring the election tourists who came with the Trump wave? Petersonfags, altrightfags, christfags, frogposters have also contributed to this decline.

>> No.13314521
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13314521

>>13313538
>tranny/lgbbqkthxbai
Just call xer xenos and we are ready to go.

>> No.13314556
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13314556

>>13314521
Call them Master. Not because they're powerful, or anything, but because of pic related.

>> No.13314665

>>13314371
>when they realize that intelligence will avail them nothing
Actually "realize" is a poor choice of wording, since it implies some sort of epiphany. They don't realize their problem, they're confronted with incontrovertible proof by the fact of their very existence. It doesn't speak well of their character, I would think.

>> No.13314684
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13314684

>this thread
>complaining about the Schizoposter and Girardfag, both of whom were frequently off-topic
>check the catalog right now
>most of the threads on the first two pages are actually about books, reading, and writing

Op I think it is YOU who is the faggot, and your idea of what constitutes "quality" on /lit/ is not the same as what actual quality /lit/ content is.

>> No.13314700

>>13314684
>/lit/ for the sake of mindless reddit check-ins about how spechul and vewy good we are for reading
No thanks, I'll take Alex fucking Jones over nureddit. Besides, just go to reddit for that anyway, no on cares.

>> No.13314720

>>13314684
>talk about books, not ideas

Honk honk

>> No.13314740

>>13314684
>how many pages did you read today?
>post your shelf
>what did you just buy anons?
>age, what you're reading right now, favorite fetish
>books for this feel?
>what did he mean by this?
>is he/she right /lit/?
>why yes...

Go to reddit.

>> No.13314750

>>13314740
>books for this feel?
And sometimes this
>what did he mean by this?
Otherwise I want it out

>> No.13314775

>>13314466
He was well on the road to conversion when he wrote The Golden Age. He seemed to have come to the conclusion that some sort of objective "morality" exists (this is important to the conclusion of the Golden Age books). This alone is enough to kill the physicalist worldview he apparently held before once the implications told. The conflict between claustration and expansion is also central to the overarching plot of TGA although it's handled quite a bit differently than in Eschaton. And more mundanely he also thinks that scriptural Christian gender roles especially concerning marriage are good and correct, and is at least open to the idea that human biology reflects them rather than the other way around -- which if true has obvious implications for transhuman or nonhuman forms of sentient existence.

I say all of this to point out that his dramatic "conversion experience" wasn't necessary, that it's not surprising at all that the man who wrote The Golden Age became a somewhat eccentric Catholic. Nor do I think he's lying. I will say this: it is not unknown for highly creative people to experience vivid visions of things not of this world. Tolkien had visions of Faery, and another SF writer, Cordwainer Smith -- who incidentally became a born-again Christian later in life -- very likely did as well.

>> No.13314955
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13314955

>>13313973
I have a 39 page archive of all schizo-poster posts (constantly updated), we are in safe hands.

>> No.13315191

>>13314775
Finally, anything else you can recommend that resonates with the ideas in this thread?

>> No.13315203

>>13314955
Can you share this? Thanks in advance.

>> No.13315237

>>13315203
most recent version:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/wyxeyu4to16ft52/_lit__Schizo_Ramblings_%25284%2529.pdf/file

>> No.13315645

Mods and jannies are cops.
The Lemurian Time War is Real and Actual.

:^)


(^:

>> No.13315829

Might have to start a new thread for this, but I figured I'd try asking her first since it's somewhat topical. I haven't read any philosophy aside from some Plato, what is the absolute minimum I need to read to get to Deleuze?

>> No.13315899

>>13315829
Are you interested in Deleuze, or are you interested in Deleuze the meme? If you're actually interested in Deleuze, then know your Kant.

Read his lecture on Kant (available online), and the book Deleuze's Critique of Representationalism (forget the author, but it's on libgen).

>> No.13315929

>>13315829
If you want to read Deleuze so you can have a grab bag of oddball social-theoretical metaphors and/or some kind of vague, unsystematic metaphysics of "process" or whatever, not sure what the best way to go about that is, other than through simple osmosis like most of those retards seem to.

If you want to actually understand Deleuze as a systematic philosopher, thus systematically, you should know a lot of German idealism and both transcendental and hermeneutic phenomenology. The sad thing is that Deleuze is simply not that interesting once you finally do all this work. He's just a kind of ersatz phenomenologist with a sometimes frustrating preference of reading his own ideas through misreadings of other philosophers. The result is that most "Deleuzians" are extreme vulgarizers who like riff off some of his formulations while being completely incompetent at speculative philosophy proper. Maybe he intended this state of affairs, but I doubt he wanted it to be quite as bad as it is.

>> No.13316540

>>13315829
there is none. you can start with his work on other philosophers:

What is Philosophy?
Hume Empiricism and Subjectivity
Kant's Critical Philosophy
Nietzsche and Philosophy
Bergsonism
Spinoza: Practical Philosophy
Francis Bacon: The Logic of Sensation
Leibniz and the Baroque