/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.13298222]

Good books on the upcoming environmental and subsequent economic collapses?

[Anonymous No.13298263]

In my experience, that is too painful to talk about so casually for people with skin in that game. It's hard to write so matter-of-factly for a popular audience when your whole world that you love has cancer. I certainly avoid idlely reading about it.
You know things are fucked when marine biologists feel the need to start becoming eulogists.

[Anonymous No.13298291]

>>13298263
I honestly don't care at all, I used to believe that we were on the verge of collapse and didn't lose any sleep over it, but the internet has radicalized me to distrust everything coming out of academia so I don't really believe any of their forecasts about ecological collapse, what evidence is there that it's actually happening?

[Anonymous No.13298307]

>>13298291
I definitely don't care to talk about this with you. I used to think I could meaningfully engage with apathy. Now I know that it's a result of living a life deprived of meaning, and they can't get it. All it does is darken my day. There are plenty of people living this with me. People outside our community like you are best left to rot in your simulated reality. Sorry, now you should feel welcome to come into the daylight and join us. Otherwise I want nothing to do with you.

[Anonymous No.13298313]

>>13298307
Good god, ok if you're going to whine like a faggot then the invitation stands to anyone else to post evidence of this collapse

[Anonymous No.13298501]

>>13298313

We are literally living in a mass extinction era. Virtually every species is declining, over 90% of adults have micro plastics coursing through their blood streams, and unsustainable farming practices are degrading our soil at such a rate that food security will be threatened in the not so distant future.

The evidence is so overwhelming I can only assume only someone of sub-70 IQ or an edgy contrarian teenager would refute it.

[Anonymous No.13298518]

>>13298222

Ted Kezinksky
Penti Linkola
Jaques Ellul

[Anonymous No.13298528]

>>13298518
Cringe
Try Paul Shepard and David Abrahams instead

[Anonymous No.13298543]

>>13298528

>Cringe
Cope harder you humanist faggot. Disprove anything these men said, or come up with better ideas.

[Anonymous No.13298590]

>>13298543
I'm not a humanist lol. I cringe because they remind me of me as a 14 year old. I'm not interested in engaging them at all. You can take my reading recommendations standing up or you can be a little bitch and stay mad because I gave my honest feelings about your meme recs. If you had any sense you wouldn't take this personally and you would stay humble when talking to someone who can give nonmeme recommendations, which in all likelihood means I'm more experienced.

[Anonymous No.13298606]

>>13298222
club of rome's limits to growth

[Anonymous No.13298837]

I was right all along.

[Anonymous No.13298857]

>>13298263
Most people have no connection with nature at all. It's an abstraction for them.

[Anonymous No.13298870]

>>13298501
We don't even remotely have the ability to measure what is happening with the majority of species

[Anonymous No.13298990]

>>13298870
A good estimate can be pretty easily extrapolated from the species area-relationship, extinction rates, field studies, and more.
I don't know where the 90% number comes from, but I don't doubt that it's close. we do have the data to note how messed things are.
A number like, "90% of species are in decline" doesn't even begin to communicate our ecological misery. You have to witness the life vanishing from your home. Which isnt something that an alienated spud who grew in and lives in an urban area where 1 in 100 people are even capable of naming 5 native species of plants, simply do not have the eyes to see.

[Anonymous No.13299101]

>>13298291
>the internet has radicalized me to distrust everything coming out of academia
Yikes

[Anonymous No.13299115]

>>13298222
It's fucking capitalism. It still works if we're all dying and the environment is falling apart. It thrives on disaster. We don't have wars to rely on because of the globalists, so now the entire point of environmental degradation is to show how anger the gods are with us so we can all go back to church and work happily making our communist bunkers that we're all entitled to have along with people who listen to you and sex robots.

[Anonymous No.13299121]

>>13298307
You could have just posted a link. But instead you just engaged with the person you said you would not engage with to blubber about how you don't engage with people like him.

[Anonymous No.13299140]

>>13299121
I don't have any links to explain why I don't want to talk to that particular person about that particular topic. Stop problematizing idiot

[Anonymous No.13299178]

>>13299140
imagine being such a fucking faggot you can't even discuss things without crying about your 'day being darkened'

[Anonymous No.13299192]

>>13298291
> but the internet has radicalized me to distrust everything coming out of academia
If I were to find a paper, take a chart from it, crop it, put a star of david somewhere and post it here would you believe it?

[Anonymous No.13299307]

>>13299178
Say that to me irl and not on the web and I'll darken your daylights pussy

[Anonymous No.13299315]

>>13299307
after youre done crying about your flowers dying or whatever

[Anonymous No.13299420]

>>13299315
Having a conversation about something with someone who shows no interest or understanding in said thing is very unpleasant.
If they were really interested, they would take the initiative to learn, or at least ask less asinine questions. Then I would love to talk to them. I'm not here to spoon-feed retards that don't want to eat their vegetables.
The pain has nothing to do with the topic, the pain is from trying to communicate with some self-absorbed asshole.

[Anonymous No.13299438]

>>13299420
Not that anon but I'm interested in learning about the topic. Is there any literature you wound recommend outside of dry academia papers?

[Anonymous No.13299477]

>>13299420
yes you like to whine instead of posting about the thing you ostensibly care about congratulations

[Anonymous No.13299485]

>implying
We've passed the point of no return, anon. The only solution that isn't returning the planet to a pre-biotic soup and hoping life evolves again is getting to space and continuing humanity there where the resources are effectively infinite and pollution doesn't happen because of the necessity of climate controlled environments coupled with the need for matter conservation and recycling.

>b-but im a mopey faggot who doesnt want anything to change!
You are the cancer killing the planet. I mean that literally or unironically or whatever dumb term you retards overuse these days.

[Anonymous No.13299526]

>>13299485
lmao this is a death cult, you have no evidence for anything youre saying

[Anonymous No.13299565]

>>13299485
>space
I hate you faggots. I will money wrench your precious little rockets if you ever try that shit

[Anonymous No.13299578]

>>13299485
it's not too late. There is plenty that can be done.
Don't think like that. I'm not a Christian but the gospels are correct. Love is the only way we can see in this darkness. Go towards the light.
>>13299526
There is plenty of evidence things are really bad. Anon is just afraid. Don't mock them.
>>13299438
Well I mostly read dry acedemic literature.
Off the top of my head I recommend the end of the line, life and death of the great barrier reef, end of nature, EO Wilson's popular books, silent spring, I really don't read that sort of thing, I get enough irl. Those are the everything is bad books, there are other topics like ecology, philosophy, and anthropology that are pertinent but not all doom and gloom, but they might be too acedemic.

[Anonymous No.13299645]

>>13299526
>>13299565
>>13299578
>if we keep doing exactly the same thing we're doing now, eventually things will happen differently instead of the exact same way this course of action is proceeding now!
Enjoy your products, anons. I hope it's worth it.

[Anonymous No.13299662]

>>13298307
reddit

[Anonymous No.13299679]

>>13298291
Just do your own research, the evidence is overwhelming.

[Anonymous No.13299826]

>>13299192
>If I were to find a paper, take a chart from it, crop it, put a star of david somewhere and post it here would you believe it?
why, of course!

[Anonymous No.13299858]

>>13299645
I want an economic collapse. I don't want to spread the human plague across the cosmos

[Anonymous No.13299875]

>>13299858
>Human plague
Please stop, you sound like an ecologically conscious incel and it's embarrassing. Horrible for PR, people like you are the reason that neolib shills can strawman environmentalism as misanthropic.

[Anonymous No.13299881]

>>13299858
You can also help prevent that by being an hero, you edgy faggot.

[Anonymous No.13299925]

>>13298222

I know he gets shit on a lot here for GG&S (which I wasn't a big fan of) but this book was really something else and I really enjoyed it. It gets dense sometimes with the detailed explanations of pollen samples and sediment layers, but helps understand how we know what we know and just how severe and inevitable global ecological collapse will be if we don't do something.

[Anonymous No.13299932]

>>13299925
Literal death cult. Off yourself

[Anonymous No.13299976]

>>13298263
I look forward to the inevitable collapse.

[Anonymous No.13299987]

>>13298857
"Nature" is just a meaningless personification of various life cycles. It was never valuable and can be rendered obsolete in the future.

[Anonymous No.13300013]

>>13299932
It's not a death cult, people are just afraid of dying.
That mass extinction biz, which is definitely happening and accelerating. It's not the end. That's what the noobs don't realize. We are gravely wounded, and life will not be well and will be cut short if we do not start healing asap. All we need is some tender loving care! So get your game on.
Don't judge anon for thinking we're all gonna die, it's not wrong to think that. What's wrong is to surrender to death. Some of you may die, but that's a chance I am willing to take.
Don't be afraid! Life on Earth doesn't end at death , count yourself lucky to be alive in this lovely home. All that glitters is gold.
Check em

[Anonymous No.13300020]

>>13299976
Well that's your problem! You need to look around you here and now, the future isn't decided.

[Anonymous No.13300025]

>>13299987
Wow, you sound smart. I bet you really like science and cool gadget stuff.

[Anonymous No.13300029]

>>13299987
Nothing is meaningless, it wouldn't be a thing if it was meaningless.

[Anonymous No.13300030]

>>13299932
>>13299526
>muh death cults XD

[Anonymous No.13300041]

>>13298263
you sound pretty redpilled, i've been so exhausted with things lately, give me the final push to just end it bro, there is nothing that can justify death at this scale, it's all so tiresome

[Anonymous No.13300053]

>>13299932
your precious civilization is a life cult, and where there is only life there is also a kind of death

[Anonymous No.13300055]

>>13300025
I like 'cool gadget stuff' more than miscellaneous wildlife. One has had a noticeable impact on my life.

[Anonymous No.13300063]

>>13300055
>i dont need to food to live

fuck off retard

[Anonymous No.13300107]

>>13299875
Environmentalism is apex neoliberalism. Even Linkola can be co-opted.

[Anonymous No.13300112]

>>13300107
lol better than fucking Land and Deleuze

[Anonymous No.13300113]

>>13300041
I've been in that exact same position.
The last thing I want is for something else I love to die(I'm talking about you friend)
I was entrenched in suicidal thoughts with this issue being the prime mover for most of my adolescent and adult life. A couple years back I had the breakthrough that life is worth clinging to. It's the love, the same love that breaks your heart, the same love that would kill you if it went away. But love never dies, it's a gift that keeps on giving, it's evolutionary love(Google it), agape. I had that breakthrough on a simulated near death experience on DMT. I'm not saying DMT will make your life work living, but love will, it's the only reason you are alive to begin with. The pain doesn't go away, but you can live with the pain if you sacrifice your well being to give your love to the world.
Sorry for posting cringe, but I'm attempting to be poetic. Love saved me, better believe it's here to save you too.

[Anonymous No.13300128]

>>13300063
https://www.inverse.com/article/56704-move-over-impossible-burger-lab-grown-meat-will-overtake-plants-by-2040
;)

[Anonymous No.13300159]

>>13300113
remarkably in line with my views actually. thanks anon

>>13300128
lol yeah and silicon valley is gonna cure mortality any day now brosef, your sickly sweet optimism is cringe

[Anonymous No.13300169]

>>13300159
remember when aids was this huge deadly thing that was going to kill everyone?
yeah, we fixed that

[Anonymous No.13300178]

>>13298222
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53uXMtoxnvE

[Anonymous No.13300210]

>>13300169
>fixed
There are more faggots and niggers than ever, so I fail to see how the AIDS crisis was really fixed. Progress for its own sake and so we can go "wow neat! aren't we so smart! now how do we fix the problems we created by solving that problem?" is a retarded mindset.

[Anonymous No.13300243]

end of nature
disappearing earth
overstory
down to earth (bruno latour)
uninhabitable earth
falter (mckibben)
this changes everything
sixth extinction
ecodeconstruction
ecology of wisdom
practice of the wild
losing earth
the end of ice


ecofaggot here

[Anonymous No.13300250]

>>13300243
>ecofaggot here
r-really. . 0^0
What do you think about community ecology? I think assembly rules are real but Diamond was sorta a dink. Also, guilds>functional groups

[Anonymous No.13300288]

>>13300243
hi, what would you recommend for someone whose been reading philosophy for years but is just now getting into eco- stuff?

[Anonymous No.13300319]

>>13300288
>hi, what would you recommend for someone whose been reading philosophy for years but is just now getting into eco- stuff?

practice of the wild
spell of the sensuous
carbon ideologies
ecosocialism (kohei saito)
facing gaia
nature (merleau-ponty lecture series)
third critique
moby dick + call me ishmael

[Anonymous No.13300323]

>>13300319

and, my personal favorite, the phenomenon of life.

[Anonymous No.13300340]

>>13300250

>guilds>functional groups

guilds are nice but they require the deletion of the single most important facet of capitalism besides private property: the labor market. for that alone i am in support.

[Anonymous No.13300344]

>>13299485
This defeatist mindset harbored by some only accentuate the crisis as it gives them an excuse to not change their ways.
We cannot predict the future, there is so many aspects of life that is out of our control.

[Anonymous No.13300361]

>>13300344

it's not "not changing their ways," their delusional technofuturism is attempting to opt out of a common future for humanity.

[Anonymous No.13300370]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUifq66lCnc

[Anonymous No.13300376]

>>13298222
It doesn't matter if global warming is real because the people promoting it are not trustworthy so we will never know for sure or when it's too late. As it stands, climate initiatives are there to reduce standard of living of the western world while lining global oligarchs pockets.

[Anonymous No.13300380]

>>13300319
thank you friendo definitely checking them out

[Anonymous No.13300385]

>>13298263
So what you're saying I should hop out of my enviromental major?

[Anonymous No.13300395]

>>13300376

climate change is a current phenomenon you twat. it's not some far off thing. the entire gamut of proposals is predicated on shifting the taxation burden onto the wealthy and away from the military.

dumb post, 1/10 because i responded to this garbage

[Anonymous No.13300404]

>>13300128
enjoy your onions burger fag

[Anonymous No.13300412]

>>13300404
Based

[Anonymous No.13300423]

>>13300376
Sad thing is that this the view point of way too many people. With it you simultaneously acknowledge climate change yet remain totally apathetic

[Anonymous No.13300610]

>>13298222
Climatopolis takes a more optimistic view, i really enjoyed it. Basically focuses on the intersection of environmental and urban economics, and argues that markets and innovation will provide some capacity for us to adjust to climate change costs.

https://www.amazon.com/Climatopolis-Cities-Thrive-Hotter-Future/dp/0465063837

[Anonymous No.13300627]

>>13300610
Here's to hoping he's wrong and you urban-dwelling sodomites just wind up cooking and climbing over each other for a breath of smog in this hell on earth you created.

[Anonymous No.13300857]

>>13300395
Taxation burden on the military? wtf are you talking about

[Anonymous No.13300872]

>>13298222
>thinks society is all that’s going to end

[Anonymous No.13300874]

>>13300376
>>13300395
>>13300423

Everyone knows climate change is real. I'm just not going to start a 1 world government to try and combat it. Human species survival is not truly threatened. and we'll have mapped the dna of all species that go extinct. There were humans walking on a glacier a mile high over my head 10k years ago. Shit happens on this rock.

[Anonymous No.13300881]

>no John Michael Greer

[Anonymous No.13300888]

>>13298590
An example of over-socialization.

[Anonymous No.13300889]

OP, you should read Laudato Si, and realize that everyone in this thread is both right and wrong. We ARE living in an environmental catastrophe, on multiple fronts, including climate change and loss of wildlife. But we can neither succumb to despair nor continue on as we have been doing. The past 500 years are ultimately to blame for our ecological catastrophes. We need to move beyond Modernity, beyond the thought of Descartes, Bacon, Rousseau, and Voltaire, and to regain the wisdom of the Ancients and the Medievals, if we are to survive and repair our world.

Read Laudato Si, and then go pray the Rosary.

[Anonymous No.13300909]

Carbon Ideologies by Vollmann

[Anonymous No.13300945]

>>13300874
This is the end of the cenozoic, our phase of life will die and be replaced with a new form as has happened multiple times before. We’re going the way of the dodo.

[Anonymous No.13301017]

>>13298870
every species we do measure is on the decline dipshit

[Anonymous No.13301022]

>>13300889
cringe

[Anonymous No.13301027]

>>13301017
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/01/how-an-explosion-of-jellyfish-is-wreaking-havoc/
why do you hate jellyfish you faggot

[Anonymous No.13301034]

>>13300874
yikes

[Anonymous No.13301042]

>>13300889
I already have.

[Anonymous No.13301185]

>>13300627
urban agglomerations are a critical part of the modern economy and are the primary drivers of knowledge, innovation, technology, cultural growth and overall progress. rural areas of course are important because they produce food and natural resources, and the the cultures that are adapted to rural area have great value. i myself prefer rural areas and have spend lots of time in Wyoming and Montana. but you cannot deny that cities are good and important because they power our technological progress. if humanity has a future, cities will have to cope with climate change and ecological destruction. i think this is likely.

[Anonymous No.13301302]

>>13298501
After none of the deadlines for environmental collapse that scared shit out of me in my youth have materialized, I am pretty sure that you, like all the previous alarmists are talking out of your ass.

>We are literally living in a mass extinction era.

If human activity on the current scale can damage biosphere in any significant way (compared to, you know, a glacier covering most of Eurasia), then there is no such thing as "extinction eras" because the current geological history of Earth is obvious bunk.

[Anonymous No.13301318]

>>13300627
>I'm writing this from a nice expensive house full of city-made machinery which frees me from backbreaking labor to the point I can hallucinate about my way of life being natural and shitpost about my hallucinations on 4chan.

[Anonymous No.13301355]

>>13301318
Tell me more about my life, it sounds great.

[Anonymous No.13301504]

>>13300063

There is no meaningful causality between grossly Phenomenal "Nature" like the Earth, living "Nature" like the the Biosphere, and domestic "Nature" like what people eat. In fact, by Materialist definitions they are at odds with each other, and only correlate because of Ontological coincidence.

[Anonymous No.13301528]

>>13300159
2030 according to google, and along with integrating general intelligent ai we as a species might overcome every obstacle in our path. Its an arms race to either oblivion or ascension I wouldn't want to contribute to the former mentality since opinions spread along with the influence they carry.

[Anonymous No.13301562]

>>13298307
YIKES

[Anonymous No.13301575]

>>13301318
>you dare to criticize the system yet you partake in it??!
>w-what a loser hahahah

[Anonymous No.13301860]

>>13301575
>I criticize a system which is the only reason I'm even breathing, never mind having leisure to shitpost
>Look at my enlightened mind!

[Anonymous No.13301892]

>>13301504
psued

[Anonymous No.13301895]

The environment is fine. You people are insane with this climate change shit.

[Anonymous No.13302252]

>>13301185
>cities solve the problems they create
>cities good

nah

[Anonymous No.13302255]

>>13301528
you sound like a child fantasizing about christmas morning

[Anonymous No.13302260]

>>13301860
>people can't criticize the dependencies they are born into

Fuck off.

[Anonymous No.13302276]

>>13298291
>but the internet has radicalized me to distrust everything coming out of academia so I don't really
Being part of academia has radicalized me to distrust everything coming out of academia.

[Anonymous No.13302286]

>>13298263
*idly

[Anonymous No.13302320]

>>13299925
Agreed, a great book.

[Anonymous No.13302328]

>>13298543
A pretty good refutation of Kaczynski and Ellul is that there are now enough processes leading to warming that are independent of direct human activity that even if we returned to a pre-industrial state tomorrow, we'd still be headed towards extinction.

[Anonymous No.13302346]

>>13302328
Is that REALLY a refutation, though?

[Anonymous No.13302386]

>>13298291
I'm sorry to say to you that you're the worst product of our time, but I can't even blame you and you're one out of billions who don't give a shit. People who have been desensitized en masse like you, who no longer care about the massive moral wrongs we commit in exchange for creature comforts, are a godsent gift to those who trade in blood money.

Why would you believe the internet, of all things, to radicalise you about academia? Forecasts of imminent collapse were largely sensationalism from journalists and politicians, although academia had stake in this, it's nowhere near the level of responsibility they hold. And that's not to put academia on a pedestal either, they're far from innocent when it comes to misrepresentation. Now you're taking the exact same type of rhetoric from the opposition.

It's foolish, and the data shows that we are slowly accumulating temperature in the Earth on average, somewhere between 1.5-2.0 degrees F since the beginning of the 19th century and the Industrial revolution. We know we're ripping holes in the ozone with our use of aerosols. At the very least, 27,000 species are threatened with extinction. Just looking up a population density map of the Earth gives you a taste of how much damage we must have done to the environment and biodiversity just through urbanizing areas, nevermind including farmland, quarries, mining, factories, and anything else people like to keep out of sight and out of mind.

The saddest thing about this is that no one cares, as critical as I am about it and you and I think it's horrible, I don't even flinch anymore when I see an animal trapped in a plastic bag, scavenging in bins, caked in oil or even the site of an animal mass death. Desensitization will likely be the reason we all die.

[Anonymous No.13302406]

>>13302386
>We know we're ripping holes in the ozone with our use of aerosols
This is the type of shit that makes me not take any of your climate alarmism seriously. If you're that uninformed on this then you're probably uninformed on everything else.

[Anonymous No.13302480]

>>13302386
>Desensitization will likely be the reason we all die.
Faggots like you make me think the sooner the better.

[Anonymous No.13302622]

>>13301892
weak

[Anonymous No.13302672]

>>13301895
It's not only about climate change. Some of us are worried about wastefullness and environmental (habitat) destruction. How can anyone not be utterly staggered by the sheer wastefulness of our society? Everyone pretends to be "green" but would never give up their middle-class lifestyle to make a difference. There is so much that can be done to improve our lives in a meaningful way and it doesn't mean commieblocks and breadlines.

[Anonymous No.13302776]

Heidegger

[Anonymous No.13302787]

>>13299826
>implying stormfront's been relevant at all since 2010
You're living in the past, oldfag

[Anonymous No.13302799]

>>13298222
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WRojM9_uAI

[Anonymous No.13302811]

>>13302799

[Anonymous No.13302840]

>>13302672
What is all this waste you're talking about? All inefficiency costs something so if you spot an inefficiency and find a way to make it more efficient, people will be interested. That's literally what the goal of economics is. The reason it might seem like people aren't paying attention to you or aren't interested in implementing your solutions is because your proposed solutions aren't actually solutions which increase efficiency. Oftentimes they'll have serious drawbacks which aren't readily apparent. Everybody wants a nice and clean environment so it's best to approach these issues with a mindset of tradeoffs and incentives rather than problems and solutions so you don't get stuck in this "stage one" thinking.

That picture is retarded by the way. The need for parking doesn't go away when you replace that space with random buildings, it's made worse.

[Anonymous No.13302905]

>>13302840
Your economics-in-a-vacuum seems great, but please don't pretend that the "efficiency of the market" isn't corrupted by corporate interests.

Regarding the retarded picture: https://www.civicconservation.org/casestudy

[Anonymous No.13303275]

>>13302811

[Anonymous No.13303902]

>>13302255
and you an edgy teen who cant see any good in life never said either will come through but quit being so fucking depressing it helps no one and makes you look like a little bitch

[Anonymous No.13305403]

le bump

[Anonymous No.13306806]

>>13298307
>>13302386
Holy shit alarmists are so tiresome and odious. I hope the earth fries, the oceans boil, and Mother Nature gets fucked at full force in her vagina, mouth, and ass.
>>13302672
No shit. Even the true believers won't give up "wasteful" conveniences like showers, toilet paper, etc. because deep down they know it won't make an actual difference.
>>13300376
This.