/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.13289819]

What are the main philosophy books I should read to understand transgenderism?

[Anonymous No.13289834]

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/phc3.12438

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE No.13289833]

Not a philosophy

[Anonymous No.13289841]

The time for understanding is over

[Anonymous No.13289857]

>>13289819
Faggot, leave, we are not your "buddies" from reddit.

[Anonymous No.13289865]

>>13289833
If you mean that this issue should be restricted to psychological analysis then I would have to disagree with you. Psychology can only tell us how transgender people arise in a gendered society, how to go about treating them, and what symptoms are useful to diagnose transgenderism; it does not provide an analysis of the concept of gender and its relation to the individual, nor does it say how gender identity causes transgenderism. Only philosophy and sociology can do that.

[Anonymous No.13289871]

>>13289819
read this, TERFs were right about literally everything. trannies can be understood as incel class traitors. Most trannies are incels that in their stupidity believe they have found an 'easy way out'. that's why 90% of their 'civil rights movement' is just them calling people bigots for not wanting to fuck their grotesque asses.

[Anonymous No.13289892]

>>13289865
I am also for literary or pictorial explorations of transgenderism as the harrowing existential condition that it actually is. Were is the tranny dostoevsky?

[Anonymous No.13289893]

If you want a non-meme answer, go and read whipping girl. Probably one of the best books out there on the subject. It’s a super interesting read even if you don’t care about trannies because it points out some very bizarre observations which you can’t unsee

[Anonymous No.13289904]

>>13289892
Trannies are drop outs of gender rather than explorers or whatever. Mtfs are fleeing responsibility and ftms are fleeing inferiority. You can observe this most easily in the overt sexism of the ftm and in the implicit sexism in the mtf and their kitsch interpretation of being female.

[Anonymous No.13289909]

>>13289819
Ray Blanchard is honestly the most cogent explanation of why it happens.

Tranoids will get mad when you assert their identity is a result of an attempt to maximise their fucked up sexual preferences, but this is arguably the underlying reason for all human activity.

[Anonymous No.13289934]

>>13289893
>When I was a child, I was sexually assaulted, but not by any particular person. It was my culture that had his way with me. And when he was through, he carved his name into my side so that I’d always have something to remember him by. It’s the scar that marks the spot where my self-esteem was ripped right out of me. And now all that is left is a submissive streak that’s as wide and as deep as the Grand Canyon

You are right, I definitely won't be able to unsee this

[Anonymous No.13289948]

>>13289909
You need to go deeper than explaining it by just their sexual preference, it was a cognitive dissonance between their self expectations and the expectations of their sex that caused them to be that way.

[Anonymous No.13289964]

>>13289909
I'm trying to veer away from the psychological aspect and just focus on the sociological/philosophical. The psychology of transgenderism, while useful, cannot really provide an analysis of the wider issues relating to gender in society and how this produces transgender people. I also reject the notion that gender identity can be fully explained by sexuality alone. There is nothing inherently sexual about the colour blue vs the colour pink or playing with trucks vs playing with dolls or wearing jeans vs wearing skirts, yet all of these are gendered activities.
>>13289893
Thanks I'll try it.

[Anonymous No.13289983]

>Turns out a good friend that was always a weird guy but not effeminate is a tranny.
>He went to a state clinic and just with a blood test and no psychological assessment they gave him HRT (in my country gender change is paid by the state, i.e our taxes).
>He likes women, but he confessed me that when he transforms he won't need any women because he'll be in love with the girl in the mirror.
HONK HONK, I guess.

>PS I wish this was a joke.

[Anonymous No.13289987]

>>13289948
>it was a cognitive dissonance between their self expectations and the expectations of their sex that caused them to be that way.

If you're referring to homosexual men who transition to more effectively get other men to penetrate their arse, then yes. The societal expectations of their at-birth gender role don't encourage that kind of behaviour.

As to why these sexual preferences of getting your arse railed, or autogynephilia, arise in people - I don't know.

>>13289964
>the psychology of transgenderism, while useful, cannot really provide an analysis of the wider issues relating to gender in society and how this produces transgender people. I also reject the notion that gender identity can be fully explained by sexuality alone.

The simplest explanation I can think of right now is the massive increase in the usage of internet pronography among young people and how that must completely warp your view of the sex act, and how one should behave/recieve pleasure in it

[Anonymous No.13289989]

>>13289871
to be fair, most terfs are just butthurt lezzies who hate trannies because they regard them as men (which they are).

[Anonymous No.13290022]

>>13289987
humans are increasingly autistic and atomised, many young boys are growing with no example of human sociality and sexuality other than from the fetishistic worlds of pornography, video-games and japanese animation growing up with no father figures, no churches or communities but with instant access to a cyberworld were everyone is valid and no mean words are allowed, of course you are going to end up with some bizarre sexual-political subcultures.

[Anonymous No.13290041]

>dude non-physical essences lmao

[Anonymous No.13290053]

>>13289871
That's a bit old. Are there any recently published big braned anti-tranny books ?

[Anonymous No.13290059]

>>13289987
>The simplest explanation I can think of right now is the massive increase in the usage of internet pronography among young people and how that must completely warp your view of the sex act, and how one should behave/recieve pleasure in it
I don't think this problem can be laid at the feet of modernity. Gender identity has been a pervasive theme throughout human society and the conceptions thereof have also differed throughout history. What is considered manly or womanly is subject to change depending on the cultural attitudes of a society and it's no surprise that some people may feel more like the opposite gender. I think chalking it down to sexuality and access to porn is far too simplistic.

[Anonymous No.13290065]

>>13289819
Kantbot's Twitter

[Anonymous No.13290066]

>>13289819
Nick Land

[Anonymous No.13290078]

It's very simple, stop masturbating, and voila, you don't want to become a woman anymore.

[Anonymous No.13290091]

>>13290022
Yeah makes sense to me.

A common argument is that gender dysphoric people have always existed, but the material conditions for their creation seem so much more prevalent following the industrial revolution.

>>13290059
>Gender identity has been a pervasive theme throughout human society and the conceptions thereof have also differed throughout history.

Maybe the nobility of certain cultures had the males act a little more fruity than usual, but gender roles of the hard working man, being physically strong and confident, while the woman raises children, are a perennial gender role throughout history. The peasant class has always remained the same.

You can say shit like wearing dresses and kilts is equivalent to gender roles but I think anyone who is pragmatic looks at gender relations first and foremostly through the implication of child rearing and occupations. Modernity, however, has given us the luxury of ignoring child rearing (through increased material wealth, the introduction of contraceptives etc.)

[Anonymous No.13290104]

That nigger gets bleached over Tinder on the reg. I know the look.

[Anonymous No.13290107]

>>13290078
This can backfire. I have some weird fetishes that are comparable to tranny autogynephilia in two respects:
1) I repress them because they're generally embarrassing, taboo, or demeaning to engage in.
2) Related to #1, but much more dangerously, they are hot precisely because they are actually demeaning and actually taboo. The more I ought to repress them, the hotter it would hypothetically be to say fuck it, give in, and hedonistically indulge them.

I think the tranny thing is comparable. It's basically a gay dude on poppers run amok, who wants to get fucked in the ass by a bear while screaming "Daddy!" at his little sister's violin recital. It's pure degeneracy, and the more degenerate it is the hotter the thought "But imagine if I actually did it for real?" becomes.

Sometimes simply ignoring a fetish like that for years can help. I think ultimately the best or only cure is preventative, meaning, don't spend ten years on the Internet diving into weirder and weirder porn versions of this sick shit in the first place. But when you already have the fetish, repressing it for months can make indulging it really tantalizing, almost like you repressed it solely so that you could build up your latent appreciation for it and indulge it all at once in an orgiastic frenzy. It's a weird dialectic of relapse.

[Anonymous No.13290127]

Personality and Motivation by Maslow

[Anonymous No.13290128]

>>13290107
That's why you cut masturbation and sexual images too.

[Anonymous No.13290131]

>>13289819
Looks like the guy from IT crowd with tidds

[Anonymous No.13290138]

>>13290091
>A common argument is that gender dysphoric people have always existed
Common but dubious, there's no sign of this group between Heliogabalus and that military faggot who had sex surgery in the 1950s.

[Anonymous No.13290148]

>>13290053
there are but the nwo won't allow anyone to publish them

[Anonymous No.13290158]

>>13290138
They usually try to drag in stuff like Hijiras and claim this means all cultures have some concept of transgender. It's bullshit, nobody considers hijiras to be women, even themselves, they are considered to be eunuchs and a pest.
t. pooinloo

[Anonymous No.13290184]

There’s no philosophy, it’s just a conditional subculture (the condition being the containing society is understanding enough to tolerate said subculture) that (1) gets a lot of press because establishment liberals need a “marginalized group” to champion or they die, and (2) is “hip” with young people who want to piss their parents off

Not even trying to be derogatory, but “transgenders” pre-transgender movement are essentially all mentally ill/troubled people; this modern movement portrays these sick people as some kind of kitsch sidekick and gives them fifteen minutes to talk to middle America on Ellen Degeneres every other week

Morality aside, it’s a film flam political psy op that can’t last, it does motnin any waynintend to seek truth but merely to arm one side in a larger debate, the opposite of philosophy: sophistry

[Anonymous No.13290203]

>>13290158
before the internet and still now outside sheltered westernised environments, drag queens and transvestites did not claim to be women, they openly acknowledged they were faggots who got their rocks off that way. transvestism has become politicised as transgenderism precisely because that's the way the globohomo agenda works, to make all aspects of human life into commodities, to homogenise all human cultures and to make the human into a fully programmable economic unit. this is the ruling ideology of our times

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yowuo4pH8Lc

[Anonymous No.13290218]

>>13290091
>I think anyone who is pragmatic looks at gender relations first and foremostly through the implication of child rearing and occupations.
Gender identity is much deeper than that. From the clothes we wear to the way we walk and talk and what TV shows we watch and what haircuts we get and hobbies we have. Even something as arbitrary as the colour pink is gendered in our society.

[Anonymous No.13290236]

>>13290218
>what TV shows we watch and what haircuts we get
Wanna know how I know you're a woman ?

[Anonymous No.13290247]

>>13290236
I'm not a woman. Are you denying that haircuts are gendered?

[Anonymous No.13290255]

>>13289841
>>13289857
>>13289871
>>13289909
>>13289983
>>13289989
>>13290104
You mention trans people once and unleash torrents of seething rage from polcels disproportionate to anything that's actually affecting them. Why is this?

[Anonymous No.13290260]

>>13290022
Trannies are as old as time. Not trying to give them relevance, just saying you can’t blame only modern aspects of society for their existence even if modernity is increasing the phenomenon.

[Anonymous No.13290263]

>>13290255
Lmao fuck off loser

[Anonymous No.13290279]

>>13290203
>post video of intelligent nonconforming person giving a short little explanation of quantum physics and likening it to their own identity
woah gross bro!! eww!!!!

[Anonymous No.13290285]

The Greeks

[Anonymous No.13290287]

>>13290218
>From the clothes we wear
Yeah it helps signal who has a penis and who has a vagina. People with vaginas (or boipucci) like to signal that.
>the way we walk
is caused by how wide our hips are
>TV shows we watch and what haircuts we get and hobbies we have
ummmmmm. No it's because women are biologically incapable of understanding master and commander (jk)

I'd say gender roles can segregate WOMEN into lower stations in society and we can raise them above that. To claim that certain hobbies are only for certain genders is chauvinistic and reveals your own bigotry.

>>13290247
Sort of. The ancient celts all wore their hair long. The romans popularised short haircuts for men, but recently this is going out of fashion again.

[Anonymous No.13290297]

>>13289819
Culture of critique
Libido dominandi

[Anonymous No.13290308]

>>13289841
Based
>>13289871
Good insight. They are additionally brainwashed into it by the ((oligarchs))

[Anonymous No.13290314]

>>13290260
>Trannies are as old as time
Not really, unless you elide all gender non-conformity of any kind with the very modern phenomena of people actually believing themselves to be the opposite sex

[Anonymous No.13290316]

>>13290287
>Sort of. The ancient celts all wore their hair long.
Pointing out how conceptions of masculinity can change over time is not proof that they don't exist. A lot of things about gender identity have changed over time.

[Anonymous No.13290331]

>>13290314
>actually believing themselves to be the opposite sex
Well this is just a huge strawman. Transgender people don't think they are biologically the opposite sex. They feel that their gender identity conforms more to the opposite gender and so they undergo various transformations in an attempt to present themselves as the opposite gender. Gender and sex are not the same thing.

[Anonymous No.13290353]

>>13290331
Trans women don't believe themselves to be women? News to me

[Anonymous No.13290371]

Oswald Spengler unironically. He shows how the West is a very future oriented culture, unlike for example the Greeks. And how a culture perceives time is directly related to how it perceives the importance of women, because the childbearing woman is a symbol of the future. As such the West and ancient Egypt, the two cultures in history that are future thinking, value women the highest. Only in these two cultures do you get female rulers. Then as the culture transitions to civilization and the birth date begins to decline, the woman is no longer seen as a mother, and is elevated to the same status of man. The West is the future oriented culture par excellence, much more than Egypt, so our post-reproduction society has become hyper-feminized. We are slaves to the future. That's the reason males are so depressed nowadays, and why so many of them want to become women. As the birth rates goes down, trannies and gays go up.

[Anonymous No.13290388]

>>13290316
Yeah I'd agree they exist but the penultimate expression of gender identity is dick and balls and vagine, as opposed to wearing a pink shirt and watching gilmore girls.

I was watching a kitchen sink drama set in the 60's a while back, this was before contraception and readily available abortion. The main character is hugely anxious of looking after his pregnant girlfriend and getting her a backstreet abortion. Fast forward today and these material circumstances which govern our relationships with the opposite sex are fast disappearing. The dangers and consequences of pregnancy are far reduced, and paid maternity leave allows women to be more "masculine" in choice of their career path.

The concept of traditional gender roles only makes sense when you need one sex to look after and produce children. Now it's easy to sexually gratify ourselves and avoid having kids. Without the repressive realities of children, sexuality will warp into interesting directions. Houellebecq's dystopian future of androgynous, aexually reproductive humans is the next step desu. Trannies are just an early expression of that.

[Anonymous No.13290390]

>>13290287
>and we can raise them above that.
quit it with the royal we proglet. imo the whole concept of gender roles was created by progressive managers and bureaucrats in order to justify their social engineering and break down the family unit and hence turn us all into hedonistic atomised aspiring middle managers. Sure, women should be free to have lots of consequence free promiscuity, to have lots of abortions, to run the corporate rat race and come home to a bottle of wine a pint of icecream, netflix and a bunch of cats (which is definitely not erzats substitutes for all the children they aborted). because why would they want anything else? if they think they do want anything else they are probably brainwashed by the patriarchy.

[Anonymous No.13290417]

>>13290353
Gender is the performative and behavioural identity that is usually associated with sex. This includes gait, cadence, clothing, cosmetics, countenance, behaviour, etc. Sex, is just the genitals you were born with and the composition of hormones and chromosomes in your body.

[Anonymous No.13290433]

>>13290388
>>13290390
>Houellebecq's dystopian future of androgynous, aexually reproductive humans is the next step desu.
Or just replacement by cultures which value family and children.

[Anonymous No.13290439]

>>13290417
>ignores the question
Like it or not men believing themselves to be women is a modern phenomenon. That doesn't mean it's bad.

[Anonymous No.13290442]

>>13290314
The ancient Sumerians had three different tranny gods, and as you know Sumerian gods reflected their society’s constituents, like the god of basket weaving.

[Anonymous No.13290458]

>>13290442
>unless you elide all gender non-conformity of any kind with the very modern phenomena

[Anonymous No.13290463]

>>13289871
TERFs are wrong literally about everything. everything they say is literally, unironically, retarded rambling that blames the victims of a binary gendered society. While transexuals are actually the proof that sex/gender are social constructs.
>Transexuals are males under disguise
>They are reinforcing genders by performing a caricaturesque form of them
Those retards are transphobics babbling stupid arguments to back their visceral hate, while they actually reinforce the active sex/gender system.

[Anonymous No.13290471]

>>13290388
>Yeah I'd agree they exist but the penultimate expression of gender identity is dick and balls and vagine, as opposed to wearing a pink shirt and watching gilmore girls.
Not true. Gender is a term made by sociologists to distinguish the behavioural differences in the sexes from their biological characteristics. It is mostly about how people express themselves and how others perceive them.

[Anonymous No.13290501]

>no mention of how mothers today are being pumped full of hormones more than ever to help reduce miscarriage

Look up the link between homosexuality and progesterone levels of the mother; it’s scary. There’s lots of evidence that suggests Transgenderism can be explained by a central nervous system chimera

[Anonymous No.13290511]

>>13289871
>defending TERFs

be anti-tranny if you want but defending TERFs is new levels of basedcuckery

[Anonymous No.13290516]

>>13290458
I said there is a modern aspect, you are going in the opposite direction of what you’re saying by ignoring the foundation of trannies, cognitive dissonance, which is not a modern phenomenon. Today we have vastly more mtfs than ftms, I think in the past the opposite would have been true due to male dominance as opposed to our gynocentrism (can’t say female dominance because it’s still led by men) of today. It’s basic grass is greener stuff.

Do you want me to say kids are being memed into being trannies? They are.

[Anonymous No.13290531]

>>13290511
You can acknowledge a point without accepting everything someone believes. The terfs make great points about trannies. I like terfs, they might be my enemy but they’re an honest enemy.

[Anonymous No.13290536]

>>13290439
I didn't ignore your question I just explained to you how there are two ways in which you can mean "woman". The first is biological woman, which transgirls don't believe they are; the second is woman in the gendered sense, which transgirls are.

[Anonymous No.13290542]

>>13290471
Gender was actually a concept made up by a psychiatrist, John Money. And yes, dick and vagine are a very important part of how we understand gender and of how gender identity is constructed. Why do you think transexuals undergo highly dangerous surgeries to change their genitals? Genitals are most of the times regarded as the final step to achieve the desired gender.

[Anonymous No.13290552]

>>13290531
No, you’re just sexually attracted to trannies and are subconsciously clamoring for any means of orientation. Terfs are retarded and u are gay. deal with it

[Anonymous No.13290562]

>>13290463
I do not know why I feel compelled to hate trans people so much, I remember being sympathetic to them when they were just autist freaks and faggots on 4chan, before they became a meme on the mass media. It's like all the propaganda has the opposite effect on me, maybe i'm just woke.

[Anonymous No.13290563]

>>13290471
I suppose you're right. I'm just bigotedly explaining away gendered acts because I think anything a woman or man does, doesn't change their birth sex lol.

You could argue that women are pressured to look after baby dolls and boys are pressured to go after toy trucks (or is it biologically ingrained? I don't know), I just think this is ultimately irrelevant as to whether I'll see them as a man or woman.

[Anonymous No.13290566]

>>13290542
Attributing gender to things is very old. In a real sense to dress as a woman is to change your gender. Obviously you can’t change your sex though or your implicit gender through the gendering of your sex. Your genitals will always be masculine or feminine.

[Anonymous No.13290571]

>>13290566
I wish trannies didn’t try to coopt intersex issues.

[Anonymous No.13290572]

>>13290536
Biology is a social construct. Transwomen are women as authentically as ciswomen. This isn't hard to understand

[Anonymous No.13290576]

>>13290562
If that's how your thought process works you're just retarded.

[Anonymous No.13290579]

>>13290572
based!!

[Anonymous No.13290605]

>>13290576
Don Quixote is charming because we recognise his eccentricity and folly. If the state artificially promotes acting like Don Quixote as virtuous behaviour, then it becomes ugly.

I think anons mind works very normally

[Anonymous No.13290612]

>>13290576
I think I am the one resisting the system a system which wants to impose absurd ideas on me, this sort of thing is just a wedge issue for progressives, a vicious horde of resentimment driven goblins who want to control me. sure some trannies might be intelligent nice people for all I care, they might even be passable as women but we are in a war for all we hold dear, there's no innocents and no bystanders in war.

[Anonymous No.13290613]

>>13289983
He transformed into his anima

[Anonymous No.13290623]

>>13290552
>agree with terfs on being anti tranny
>YOU JUST LIKE TRANNIES
I just try to view trannies objectively.

>>13290571
Err, sorry if you think that’s what I was doing. I don’t really see intersex as part of the tranny discussion. I can see how they would be victims of it though.

>>13290572
Fuck you retard

[Anonymous No.13290627]

>>13290563
>I just think this is ultimately irrelevant as to whether I'll see them as a man or woman.
When you call somebody "man" or "woman" you don't do it in reference to their genitals or their chromosomes. You do it on the basis of how they present themselves and how you perceive them. In fact we even have terms to distinguish people who do not fall into either gender identity. Femboys and Butch Dykes for example.

[Anonymous No.13290628]

KJV
Specifically Genesis 19

[Anonymous No.13290633]

>>13290566
>Attributing gender to things is very old. In a real sense to dress as a woman is to change your gender.
Sure, speaking broadly, genders are just a sets of traits, modes of behaviour, dispositions and attitudes that constitute a continuum more that a binary exclusive system i.e: men can also have feminine traits. see what's know as "effeminates men"
But how identities and identification processes work is more complex. There's medical and "common sense" knowledges involved in that construct that don't work separately as you seem to indicate.

[Anonymous No.13290643]

>>13290627
We don’t call dykes guys and femboys girls though, except as an insult, which is meaningless.

[Anonymous No.13290650]

>>13290627
Nobody actually believes butch dykes are men, anymore than they belive drag queens are women

[Anonymous No.13290658]

>>13290623
>Fuck you retard
>I've been called out on my gatekeeping bullshit
>can't refute the argument, I'll shout insults instead
And the horse you rode in on anon...

[Anonymous No.13290678]

>>13290627
>When you call somebody "man" or "woman" you don't do it in reference to their genitals or their chromosomes.
I actually do. I literally only see men, women, women who have OD'd on testosterone, and men who have foolishly taken lots of HRT.

Until surgery and medicine progresses to the point where trannies can accurately pass with 100% (even in producing fertilisable eggs) I will only see gender as dick and balls and vagine. If my gf can't produce a kid I'll feel way too awkward. That's not to say I would never fall in love with an infertile woman, but discovering your infertile is an extremely sad thing for both genders.

I think femboy, twink and dyke are ugly words and I still see them as their birth sex.

[Anonymous No.13290681]

>>13290572
Well actually all categories, including sex, are social constructs. It's just that we agree that sex is a useful distinction and that the sexes are so far apart as to warrant different categories.
However there are some problems with the sex binary we have today. For example people with XX male syndrome are genetically female but phenotypically male and taxonimists still debate about whether they should be considered male or female. In fact people who's biology doesn't match the sex binary are about 1.7% of the population, which is about the same number as there are redheads.

Gender is a different thing though.

[Anonymous No.13290690]

>>13290643
>>13290650
I didn't say that femboys are girls and butch dykes are males. I said that they don't fall into either gender identity, are effectively a gender themselves.

[Anonymous No.13290720]

>>13290690
Ok that's fair but I am afraid very few normal people think about the word gender like this. More social engineering is required.

[Anonymous No.13290731]

>>13290633
>But how identities and identification processes work is more complex. There's medical and "common sense" knowledges involved in that construct that don't work separately as you seem to indicate.
Not entirely sure I’m reading you right but this is what I meant by cognitive dissonance. You don’t feel you meet the expectations of your gender or the expectations of your gender don’t meet your personal expectations. Your personal identity isn’t some sacred thing, it’s a condition of the mind which is not inherently good.

>>13290690
There are two genders. Being a feminine male doesn’t make you a third gender, it makes you a feminine male. You can disguise yourself very convincingly as the opposite gender but it will always be your opposite gender. I’m not totally antitranny, for some people that’s just living their happiest natural life, it’s a problem though when we stop seeing the tranny as the victim of failure that they are and encourage it among others.

[Anonymous No.13290756]

>>13290605
>If the state artificially promotes acting like Don Quixote as virtuous behaviour, then it becomes ugly.
Sure, it works very normally but that doesn't make it intelligent by any means.
It's just a mistified understanding of authenticity.
>I feel compasionate and recongnise their marginal demands until they become a political subject. This is pushing the limits too far!
You should then hate the "state" and not the trans collective.

[Anonymous No.13290787]

>>13290756
turns out most ordinary people are not cool with the organised social subversion of the liberal elite. who could have known?

[Anonymous No.13290818]

>>13290731
>You don’t feel you meet the expectations of your gender or the expectations of your gender don’t meet your personal expectations.
Yes, you understood it mostly right.
>Your personal identity isn’t some sacred thing, it’s a condition of the mind which is not inherently good.
What has morals to do with this? It's not a condition of the mind, it's a social condition and minds are involved in it.
There's nothing sacred about identities, they are something we need to understand ourselves and the others in a system that rests on structural differentiation.

[Anonymous No.13290828]

>>13290818
maybe structural differentiation is good. why should I as a white man who identifies with european culture side with the corporate intersectional bureaucrats who want to abolish all culture and turn us into an homogenous mass of consumers?

[Anonymous No.13290839]

>>13289987
>As to why these sexual preferences of getting your arse railed, or autogynephilia, arise in people - I don't know.
Thats not what autogynephilia is, AGP are straight men who fetishise the female body to the point where they desire to become it. They are identified as those those trans who feel sexual arousal when thinking of their own bodies. The freaks that say things like
>When I'm a girl, I'm gonna lay in bed and play with my titties all day OwO

[Anonymous No.13290881]

>>13290681
>It's just that we agree that sex is a useful distinction and that the sexes are so far apart as to warrant different categories.
It's not though, it's a completely useless category that tells us nothing about a person. You seem to be suggesting that eg a woman can't have a penis, or a penis is somehow a masculine trait, or the problematic nonsense about 'woman in a man's body' when obviously that is not the case. I am a woman in a woman's body, and you can suck my female cock
Intersex people are interesting but irrelevant.

[Anonymous No.13290894]

>>13290839
the acronyms HSTS and AGP are what is psychiatric parlance is refered to as ''word salad''. Mentally ill people (like transgenders) often return obsessively to the same meaningless terms and concepts, we shouldn't attempt to descifer transgenders theorising about their condition but to take them as a further expression and symptom of their madness, just like we should not take a schizophrenic who talks about aliens messing with his thoughts at face value

[Anonymous No.13290897]

>>13290828
Depends what you understand by "european culture", nonetheless that's also highly marketable. The global market works through the commodification of difference, which in the last instance results in a "homogeneus mass of consumers".

[Anonymous No.13290905]

>>13289819
Unironically I think trannies would benefit from reading Stirner.

>When later, against Stirner’s statement, “I am more than a human being,” Feuerbach raises the question: “Are you also more than male?,” one must indeed write off the entire masculine position. He continues like this: “Is your essence or rather — since the egoist scorns the word essence, even though he uses it — [Stirner inserts:] perhaps Stirner only cleanses it of the duplicity it has, for example, in Feuerbach, where it seems as if he is actually talking of you and me when he speaks of our essence, whereas instead he is talking about a completely subordinate essence, namely the human essence, which he thus makes into something higher and nobler. Instead of having you in mind — the essence, you, you who are an essence, instead he concerns himself with the human being as “your essence” and has the human being in mind instead of you. Stirner uses the word essence, for example on page 56, saying: “You, yourself, with your essence, are of value to me, for your essence is not something higher, it is not higher and more universal than you. It is unique, as you are, because it is you.” — [end of Stirner’s insertion] is your I not masculine? Can you sever masculinity from what is called mind? Isn’t your brain, the most sacred and elevated organ of your body, definitively masculine? Are your feelings, your thoughts unmanly? Are you merely a male animal, a dog, an ape, a stallion? What else is your unique, incomparable, and consequently sexless I, but an undigested residue of the old christian supernaturalism?”

>You are more than a human being, therefore you are also a human being; you are more than a male, but you are also a male; but humanity and masculinity do not express you exhaustively, and you can therefore be indifferent to everything that is held up to you as ‘true humanity’ or ‘true masculinity.’

[Anonymous No.13290907]

>>13290894
>Mentally ill people (like transgenders)
Being trans is not a mental illness though. The entire medical profession and the WHO disagree with you

[Anonymous No.13290918]

Unironically I think trannies would benefit from reading Stirner.

>When later, against Stirner’s statement, “I am more than a human being,” Feuerbach raises the question: “Are you also more than male?,” one must indeed write off the entire masculine position. He continues like this: “Is your essence or rather — since the egoist scorns the word essence, even though he uses it — [Stirner inserts:] perhaps Stirner only cleanses it of the duplicity it has, for example, in Feuerbach, where it seems as if he is actually talking of you and me when he speaks of our essence, whereas instead he is talking about a completely subordinate essence, namely the human essence, which he thus makes into something higher and nobler. Instead of having you in mind — the essence, you, you who are an essence, instead he concerns himself with the human being as “your essence” and has the human being in mind instead of you. Stirner uses the word essence, for example on page 56, saying: “You, yourself, with your essence, are of value to me, for your essence is not something higher, it is not higher and more universal than you. It is unique, as you are, because it is you.” — [end of Stirner’s insertion] is your I not masculine? Can you sever masculinity from what is called mind? Isn’t your brain, the most sacred and elevated organ of your body, definitively masculine? Are your feelings, your thoughts unmanly? Are you merely a male animal, a dog, an ape, a stallion? What else is your unique, incomparable, and consequently sexless I, but an undigested residue of the old christian supernaturalism?”

>If Stirner had said: You are more than a living essence or animal, this would mean, you are still an animal, but animality does not exhaust what you are. In the same way, he says: “You are more than a human being, therefore you are also a human being; you are more than a male, but you are also a male; but humanity and masculinity do not express you exhaustively, and you can therefore be indifferent to everything that is held up to you as ‘true humanity’ or ‘true masculinity.’

[Anonymous No.13290934]

>>13290907
just like the whole medical profession in the soviet union agreed people who insisted in criticisin the party deserved to be in a madhouse.

[Anonymous No.13290972]

>>13290818
The idea that you can pick your gender and demand respect for it is considering it sacred. It is essentially a failure in your born quest of masculinity or femininity. I think it is a good thing to be kind to people, aside from protecting egos, so a tranny doesn’t inherently offend me. It’s the encouragement of them that is wrong, which is what I think you mean by understanding. It’s a very feminist belief that people should be encouraged systematically, and systematic encouragement actually holds back the genuine by promoting the whole. I believe it’s because of feminism that a man is the champion in every subject. It’s the same way how in the past undeserving men could often be raised up, though the male dominance was more out of their sheer power than systematic control, even today feminism depends on men’s support whereas men never needed female allies. Men and women have varied strengths and even if men possess more strength and intelligence on average we are a vast and radical species and a person of either gender is capable of surmounting. Sorry if that was a tangent, the point is trannies too suffer from degeneration from acceptance and the unnecessary degrading what it is to be them, though to be clear being a tranny is always unfortunate.

[Anonymous No.13290994]

>>13290972
social and moral decay is like an out of control cancer that has taken charge
a cancer born of love
if some people are actually stupid enough to believe things are improving
it's only because their poor brains are so benumbed by love
that they can no longer think straight
love..
sickly love, brotherly love, unconditional love, cowardly love, geek love
a love that says relinquish judgment
a love that encourages acceptance at the expense of discernment
it's no wonder people have imagined that things have changed for the better
when in fact all thats changed is their capacity to accept any amount of shit, unconditionally.
so the verdict on love is both bad and good
the bad news is that love has turned the world into a sewer
the good news is, people have learned to love the smell of shit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cffeupFAxGY

[Anonymous No.13291120]

>>13290972
I don't know if you're the same anon, but if the premises seemed to be right, the conclusion is desastrous.
>The idea that you can pick your gender and demand respect for it is considering it sacred.
Demanding respect for a mode of being that doesn't do harm to others and that individuals don't choose is what you understand by sacred you're pretty lost.
A sacred thing is something that ought not be questioned and must be protected from profanity, something to be praised and respected for it's own inherent qualities and that it exists as a sort of alternative reality in our own reality.
If you think that people should suffer for choosing to wear pink dresses and make up then you need to reevaluate your moral values.
>It is essentially a failure in your born quest of masculinity or femininity
This is just retarded and doesn't qualify as an argument.
Actually, Richard Von Kraft-Ebing, a psychiatrist who studied "gender disphoria" in XIX century, believed that women who choose to act and behave like men weere succesful human beings while men who choose to be women were failed human beings. Just figure out yourself what this implies.
>We should all accept our fate, given to us by birth and strive to fulfill it
Are you aware of how stupid this statement is?
For rest of your post, i'm not even going to bother adressing to.

[Anonymous No.13291356]

>>13291120
>Actually, Richard Von Kraft-Ebing, a psychiatrist who studied "gender disphoria" in XIX century, believed that women who choose to act and behave like men weere succesful human beings while men who choose to be women were failed human beings. Just figure out yourself what this implies.
I believe that too, women are stunted by nature of their relationship to men. Mother Theresa is my version of the ftm.

[Anonymous No.13291509]

>>13289819

[Anonymous No.13291887]

Gender and sex are one in the same. They are the same thing, and one cannot be the other. Which is why transsexuals will never be hapoy no matter how many surgeries they have. Their brain, no matter how much they tell themselves, will always be connected to their sex. They can destroy their genitals, out on a dress, and even get all the legal work done, but their brain will always know

[Anonymous No.13292048]

>>13290627
>When you call somebody "man" or "woman" you don't do it in reference to their genitals or their chromosomes.
Actually yes, when they act weird I call them "effeminate men" or "masculine women", they don't change their sex because they behave a little like the other.

[Anonymous No.13292068]

>>13289819
just read the underagefags on /pol/, they're obsessed with trannies and will tell you everything you need to know

[Anonymous No.13292078]

>>13289893
I fucking hated Excluded, is Whipping Girl actually any good or is it just going to make me hate Julia Serrano more?

[Anonymous No.13292285]

>>13290839
yes I know, I separated those two ideas with a comma

[Anonymous No.13292334]

>>13289819
Brave new world is probably a solid place to start.

[Anonymous No.13292356]

>>13289892
>this are what the people calling you an incel look like irl

[Anonymous No.13292537]

The myth of narcissus.

[Anonymous No.13292576]

>>13289819
what are some trannycore works of art and literature?
Glenn or Glenda by Ed Wood 1953 for AGP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taoDcurT738

In a Year with 13 Moons 1978 by RW Fassbinder for HSTS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzIbKfkqOlg

[Anonymous No.13292588]

>>13292334
theres nothing about trans in that book. Of course it has a point about every social fad and how the environment, media, narrative etc supports it like our schools and media support transfaggotry of today. But from that POV brave new world can be read to understand anything.

[Anonymous No.13292760]

>>13290918
A very good post.

[Anonymous No.13292766]

>>13289909
blanchard's mistake was positing that autogynephilia is a trans thing, it's a better descriptor of most cis women than it is trans

[Anonymous No.13292777]

>>13290066
hello nyx

[Anonymous No.13292950]

>>13292760
Except trannies dont go above male and female because ego.

Acceptance is hard.

[Anonymous No.13293005]

>>13290417
>gender is performative
>entire movement hyperfocuses on genitalia, especially their alteration, mutilation, or removal
You cannot honestly claim that the modern transgender movement is mostly interested in clothing and mannerisms.

Their entire philosophy is couched in the belief that they are the "wrong sex," not the wrong gender, and take drastic surgical and hormonal steps to "fix" it. It is not an ideology based on performative gender roles.

[Anonymous No.13293009]

How do you suppress autogynephilia to the level it was at when you believed you were completely normal and straight ages 8-19 and now can't imagine yourself with a girl as a man or look at a girl without wanting to be her and wear the things she wears?

[Anonymous No.13293025]

>>13293009
stop watching porn you wanker.

[Anonymous No.13293042]

>>13290907
>muh doctors
The WHO barred Taiwain from membership because of pressure from the Chinese government, and unironically hired Robert Mugabe as a health ambassador.

Doctors and health organizations are not apolitical actors. It's silly to think they are not massively influenced by social media and political pressure - transgenderism is absolutely a form of dysmorphia.

[Anonymous No.13293046]

>>13293009
Wait why do you want to suppress it? I'm an autogynephiliac and I love dressing up as a woman when I'm having sex even though I'm pretty masculine outside of that. There's nothing wrong with it, anon. Don't let masculinity become a spook over you. Read Stirner.

[Anonymous No.13293057]

>>13289819
https://life.spectator.co.uk/articles/transgender-dogma-is-naive-and-incompatible-with-freud/

[Anonymous No.13293064]

>>13293042
>let me tell you a little something about the illegitimate nature of your profession
>*clings harder to outdated source book*

[Anonymous No.13293083]

>>13293064
>doctors who tell me things i don't like are bad doctors
Ask me how I know you're overweight

[Anonymous No.13293103]

>>13293083
>the medical establishment says homeopathy is bullshit
>no problem, just go to an alternative doctor

[Anonymous No.13293190]

>>13291356
> I believe that too, women are stunted by nature of their relationship to men
Obviously, but that's what a power relation is, a certain group dominates/exploits some other group and perpetuates the conditions which serve as a base for such power relations. In this simple it's stupid to say that "feminism is what causes women to be a opressed colective" when it is the exact oposite.
That's like saying that abolitionism helped actual slavery.
>Margaret Tatcher is my version of FTM
You are basing all your argument in the assumption that every individual freely chooses what he wants to be in life and the world doesn't work like that.

[Anonymous No.13293226]

>>13289819

This man.

MTF=Beta males that lust after women so hard they become a woman. See the Grail mysteries.

FTM=Women that lusted for Men so hard they LARP as men.

Men can become feminine (beta) by uncontrolled Desire/Lust and are more convincing, considering they do have an X chromosome; Women however do not have a Y chromosome and therefore are the biggest LARP coping laughing stocks out of the entire bunch.

also, fuck niggers.

[Anonymous No.13293255]

>>13293190
>abolitionism helped actual slavery
it did, abolitionists were primarily fanatical economic liberals who didn't care about slaves after formal slavery became illegal, they created a situation which was functionally similar but worse in many ways

feminism causes worse suffering because women can't perform similar roles alongside men under equal conditions, it introduces illusions no woman can live up to and requires more social control to maintain the idea women are just handicapped men

[Anonymous No.13293311]

>>13293255
So now you're equating absolute domination with wage labour. Even if i agree that wage labour is a type of slavery it's not formal slavery.
I think i know where you're going, you'll end up saying that feminism is a jewish conspiracy to bring the white man down. I hope i'm wrong.
>feminism causes worse suffering because women can't perform similar roles alongside men under equal conditions
We're far from equality. This value judgement is just your own opinion backed by nothing.

[Anonymous No.13293356]

>>13293311
see>>13290390. elites love the discourse of equity because it gives them carte blanche for total social engineering democracy and public opinion be damned

[Anonymous No.13293366]

>>13293356
Yep, i was right, it's the jews bringing the white man down. Back to /pol/.

[Anonymous No.13293381]

>>13293366
it's not jews, it's progressives, the cathedral, the military industrial academic corporate nonprofit media complex, many progressives happen to be jews, but not all jews are progressives. that's a common discrediting tactic with you people, anyone who disagrees no matter how reasonable, is an evil nazi incel who wants to kill 6 trillion jews, hence you can push increasingly absurd demands on people

[Anonymous No.13293408]

>>13293190
>You are basing all your argument in the assumption that every individual freely chooses what he wants to be in life and the world doesn't work like that.
ordinary people are choosing wrong they must be taught to choose the right things by someone with a PhD in queer theory

[Anonymous No.13293411]

>>13293311
I'm saying masters had some sort of patriarchal relationship with and at least valued their slaves as sort of children, then you moved to a system of total disdain on all sides

feminism isn't bringing down white men but all men especially black men since white women want to claim to be the most exploited thing on earth

women and men are motivated by different things and the dynamics don't work when they're mandated to be aimed at the same ends

[Anonymous No.13293423]

>>13293381
>reasonable
Dude, i've been responding with logical arguments to your unfounded, blatantly stupid opinions as a charitable act.
I just wanted to believe that you would, at some point, be able to construct a single logical argument. I was wrong.

[Anonymous No.13293442]

>>13293009
By being less of a vain fag?

[Anonymous No.13293446]

>>13293423
it's just a matter of first principles, to progressives equity is an unquestionable principle. All inequality is the product of deep subconscious prejudices, and hence wrongthink must be prosecuted. Cultural Marxism is the kind of marxism corporate america and the state department can get behind. But I value other things, like community, self determination, an idea of virtue based on the western tradition, I am a peaceloving man but I will be willing to ally myself with some quite unsavory characters if coexistance becomes impossible with you people.

[Anonymous No.13293493]

>>13293446
Sure m8, postmodern neopostmarxism in murrica. Just take a gun and go shoot sum ppl in the streetz. Better be niggers and womyn.

[Anonymous No.13293498]

>>13293446
what's wrong with equity?

liberalism is about formal equality, that's what everyone tooting on about "the western tradition" are usually all about

"cultural marxism" is a confusing neologism but since you're invoking community (Gemeinschaft) it should be what you're all about

[Anonymous No.13293503]

>>13290388
Reminds me of that comic strip form moebius gardens of aedena.

Both main characters are asexual and not repressed or anything. But as soon as they start going out of their comfort zone and experience life and all sorts of emotions they differentiate. One becomes a man the other a woman. its funny because you could not tell the difference between the two at first.

Maybe gender is the ultimate expression of a cycle or equilibrium we cant understand quite well yet.

[Anonymous No.13293528]

I think transsexuality is dumb and perverted but I also fap to trannies and fantasize about being a tranny because I'm dumb and perverted. Really wish someone would have told me when I was like 13 that watching porn would lead to this.

[Anonymous No.13293529]

>>13289983
A classic case of fetishism gone too far.

>>13289819
DSM 5.

[Anonymous No.13293534]

>>13293498
you are on the side of the bureaucrats washington you are on the side of corporate america, the pentagon, google, harvard and the new york times, I am on the side of the American People.

[Anonymous No.13293536]

>>13289819

[Anonymous No.13293542]

>>13293528
Its not porn anon. You just need a good pussy.

[Anonymous No.13293547]

>>13293529
>>13293536
Hive mind

[Anonymous No.13293569]

>>13293534
Go back to shit in /pol/ sandbox already, /lit/ is for the grown ups.

[Anonymous No.13293586]

>tfw no tranny gf

[Anonymous No.13293591]

>>13293534
you said equity was bad but didn't follow up and explain why

you want to criticize every public and private institution in America but support everyone in them at the same time

you're either confused and using the wrong words or are getting at something really stupid

[Anonymous No.13293600]

maybe some pharmacists who make money out of selling estrogen?
like really, the word bad derives from hermaphrodite, how the fuck do you think being someone who will never get offspring is something worthwhile.
There is a diverse gender, it is called not responding to sexual hormones, idgaf for the medical term, trannies deserve everything they put themselves into (hint: its suffering ) because they try to play god and invert nature.

I am however gald for the people who make sure you fucks do not spread your dysfuntional weaklin genes any futher and make profits with your delusion.
these people i call " based "

[Anonymous No.13293642]

>>13293586
I am attracted to them not so much because they have penises(though that plays a role too), but because they seem autistic and miserable enough not to notice how much of a fuck up pervert I am. training wheels gf

[Anonymous No.13293655]

>>13293642
based honest anon

>>13293547
well it's true. Dr. Blanchard literally wrote the book on transgender diagnosis. That seems to be what OP was asking for.

[Anonymous No.13293675]

>>13289819
Gender trouble: Feminism and the Subversion of Identity
t. a transgirl c:

[Anonymous No.13293740]

>>13293498
>What is wrong with equity
It is ultimately incompatible with freedom of thought, self determination or cultural pluralism. Communists pretend they are radical when they are really lapdogs of the establishment, their job is to break down traditional structures of family faith and geographically situated community so power can pass to propaganda and unaccountable corporate bureaucracies.

[Anonymous No.13293779]

>>13293542
I don't know if you're saying I need to have a pussy or I need to get pussy.

[Anonymous No.13293780]

>>13289819
Is your picture a woman or a tranny? Because if it’s the latter then I regret getting a quick one out.

[Anonymous No.13293791]

All these beta futa fags and no love for cuntboys.

[Anonymous No.13293800]

>>13293740
some form of equity is probably the condition for any real freedom or self-determination

no one is pushing real equity but forms of institutional affirmative action (left-liberals) or formal equality (right-liberals)

you're problem seems to be Gesellschaft in general

[Anonymous No.13293810]

>>13293791
This oven is double-wide, baby

[Anonymous No.13293862]

>>13293810
Future is a weird place noble wolf.

Males and females are not really needed so they fall in love with themselves in a hermaphroditic hell hole.
People that say its a social construct I get it, it can be in many ways, but its so minuscule compared to the role in evolution adn biology.

I might sound dumb saying this but there i more than just benis going into bagina here.

Gender seems like a clever way of existing and being in the world and creating a sort of natural motion to propagate genes that we will still probably be using in some way, past when we are not the same as we are today. By that I don't mean simply AI or cyborg but whatever the fuck we might go.
If we get there I mean.

I probably made no sense. end rant

[Anonymous No.13294251]

>>13293529
What really strikes me is that they give hormones to anyone asking for them, sounds like lunacy to me.

[Anonymous No.13295293]

>>13290918
Stirner was always ahead of the curve, we're just catching up.

[Anonymous No.13297137]

>>13289819
sun and steel

[Anonymous No.13297179]

>>13290463

TERFS are right, though, retard-kun

[Anonymous No.13297205]

>>13290681

That number comes from a shitty book which included stuff like Klinefelter's syndrome as evidence of biology not matching sex binary.

The real number is like 1/1000

[Anonymous No.13297243]

>>13289833
I fucking hate you but I agree

[Anonymous No.13297266]

>>13290128
Can confirm, not an aspiring tranny but had thoughts of being a girl/submissive and ignoring sexual urges in the first place helps to get rid of all the fetishes. The literature of Theravada Buddhism was very useful: they’ve explored the team of voluntary celibacy for thousand of years.

[Anonymous No.13297863]

>>13289819
What's there to understand? They wish they had different sex junk and want everybody to know it.

[Anonymous No.13298486]

>>13289819
g/acc